maddoctor.2738 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > Okay, that makes no sense to me, what would a reward applicable for multiple players be exactly? And how is that different from the rest of the game? Repeatable reward. There is no repeatable reward for vanquishing, if you wanted to you could go farm/grind a specific boss for that unique weapon you want, or a skill tome. But there was no reason to re-vanquish any zone. Dungeons had repeatable rewards, elite zones had repeatable rewards, heck even missions had repeatable rewards because at least you filled your tomes to go exchange them for extra rewards. Nearly everything else in the game had repeatable rewards, applicable for multiple players, while vanquishing never did, it was a one-off deal. And given the amount of zones, the chance of finding players to vanquish the specific zone you wanted was close to zero. It's similar to saying you want help with finishing the personal story in GW2. The rewards aren't there so the only "reason" to go help someone is because they are your friend or guild mate or whatever. The reward structure of the personal story is the same as the reward structure of vanquishing and has the same "problems". Same with Raid CMs, or Migraine achievement, if you want further examples. in general any type of content that has one-off rewards isn't designed to be repeatable, or to be played with multiple players efficiently (yes both Raid CMs and Migraine require groups to beat, but neither has the reward structure to support said groups) > Though many players had trouble with just the heroes and henchmen. Well maybe that's because they were bad at playing the game. j/k But in any case the main problem is that the OP thinks if you reduce the number of players on a zone, it makes them "Raids", as if they've never played a single Raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ace.9105 Posted July 10, 2019 Author Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure there are maps in gw2 you can clear with 10-man group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So all the Heart of Thorns maps are off. Individual events in Path of Fire maps could work, but not if all the events are active at the same time. So in Desolation you'd get Junundu Rising and Maws of Torment running at the same time. That would be fun and exciting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that the living story chapter maps could be cleared with 10-man groups as well as most of core tyrian maps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like clearing Silverwastes with 10 people? Or Dragonfall? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for Core Tyria maps they have follow up events, some require you to succeed in the previous event, but there are also those that "require" failure. What happens then? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's take Brisban Wildlands, a gigantic zone with about 32 events give or take plus a 4-event meta. That's 36 events to "complete". What kind of rewards do you envision this type of content that will take literal hours to complete should give? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This suggestion doesn't necessarily mean that every map would get the vanquish thing, it could be just for season 5 ls maps for example. Ofc there are some maps that need reworks for vanquish if that would be implemented. Tho the problems you are describing are happening now already cause nobody actually plays the open world maps so the events might need a rework anyways? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They don't need a rework because nobody needs to finish all those events in a row. You go on the map to gather resources, do your dailies, bounties with guild members, wait for meta events or whatever, and at the same time while waiting you finish events around. That's how dynamic events are designed. They are not designed to be beaten and forgotten, nor to complete all of them in a row, like your vanquish idea. Individual meta events are well populated, when they are active, we have timers for that. Timers allow players to go to the events and know there will be others around, imagine if we didn't have events on timers, total chaos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 or 20 man content is also a terrible idea for guilds. Guilds aren't created to have a limited amount of players, some are large, others are small, a guild might field 9, another might get 21 players. The only way to make this work as a guild activity is to make meta events, and only meta events, instanced. An instanced Shadow Behemoth, an instanced Mega-destroyer, an instanced Golem MKII and so on. But even then, the question remains: why? What's the point? If you need some guild content to play with your guild, then your guild isn't a very good guild to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think of it as a raid release where a raid team is working on an already existing map and implements new events for 10-man group for that map that follow up the maps story. This way it would take away the whole aspect of designing raid maps and make raid releases way faster. Also if you have the map clear type of raids, more players probably would play them cause it's not all boss rushes that require the x builds etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some maps could be more casual like the wintersday raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm gonna ask, have you played any Raids in GW2? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have. What's the follow up? > > > > > > > > > > You are saying that these core tyria events will be something the raid team will work on... as if they aren't stretched thin already, with slow -actual- raid releases. You are also saying that these core tyria events will be equal to raid releases, meaning raid difficulty? How exactly do you expect an event that has a bunch of random Charr attacking a village be turned into Raid-level content? Which is why I asked if you've played Raids. To know the kind of coordination required to complete Raid bosses, compared to the abysmal level required to finish most events (large scale meta events require coordination). > > > > > > > > > > How do you expect something like the fight with Justiciar Hablion in Bloodstone Fen or the fight with Amala in Istan to be a equal to a "raid boss". If they allowed only 10 or 20 players instead of what we have now, these events won't suddenly become "Raids". They'd need to add a bazillion new abilities to the bosses in order to make them raid-like. And then you say that this will be "simple" to do. Right, remaking every single boss and every single mob that exists on all zones that will have "vanquishing" on is simple. I don't know what else to say. > > > > > > > > Well, if you are okay with 1 raid per year it's up to you. > > > > > > No I'm not ok with 1 raid per year. But what you are suggesting isn't raid and in order to make it look like a raid, it would make real raids appear once per 10 years. > > > > What I am trying to suggest here is a raid content once per living story release using the living story release maps as raid maps in addition to use the same tech at some point to convert other maps too to be more casual raids. There's just not enough time for anet to do more than 1 raid per year. > > > > It would be the same type of endgame content that gw1 had like fissure of woe and underworld but in gw2. > > And what you are suggesting isn't going to work because "living story maps" can never be Raids. Unless they are re-worked and tweaked to the point that they are actual Raids (and those we all know how long it takes to develop) Unless the raid team has the map, models and areas planned them already so that they can focus solely on building encounters which would be the case in my suggestion. The raid team would have the raid map, it's events/mechanics and assets ready for the tweaking per living world release, maybe not right away but give them like 1 extra release schedule more and they have approx 8 months time to make the previous open world map as a raid encounter. Then we would have 1 raid per 4 months on every ls release and they'd have 8 months to develop the raid mechanics to the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure there are maps in gw2 you can clear with 10-man group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So all the Heart of Thorns maps are off. Individual events in Path of Fire maps could work, but not if all the events are active at the same time. So in Desolation you'd get Junundu Rising and Maws of Torment running at the same time. That would be fun and exciting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that the living story chapter maps could be cleared with 10-man groups as well as most of core tyrian maps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like clearing Silverwastes with 10 people? Or Dragonfall? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for Core Tyria maps they have follow up events, some require you to succeed in the previous event, but there are also those that "require" failure. What happens then? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's take Brisban Wildlands, a gigantic zone with about 32 events give or take plus a 4-event meta. That's 36 events to "complete". What kind of rewards do you envision this type of content that will take literal hours to complete should give? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This suggestion doesn't necessarily mean that every map would get the vanquish thing, it could be just for season 5 ls maps for example. Ofc there are some maps that need reworks for vanquish if that would be implemented. Tho the problems you are describing are happening now already cause nobody actually plays the open world maps so the events might need a rework anyways? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They don't need a rework because nobody needs to finish all those events in a row. You go on the map to gather resources, do your dailies, bounties with guild members, wait for meta events or whatever, and at the same time while waiting you finish events around. That's how dynamic events are designed. They are not designed to be beaten and forgotten, nor to complete all of them in a row, like your vanquish idea. Individual meta events are well populated, when they are active, we have timers for that. Timers allow players to go to the events and know there will be others around, imagine if we didn't have events on timers, total chaos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 or 20 man content is also a terrible idea for guilds. Guilds aren't created to have a limited amount of players, some are large, others are small, a guild might field 9, another might get 21 players. The only way to make this work as a guild activity is to make meta events, and only meta events, instanced. An instanced Shadow Behemoth, an instanced Mega-destroyer, an instanced Golem MKII and so on. But even then, the question remains: why? What's the point? If you need some guild content to play with your guild, then your guild isn't a very good guild to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > Think of it as a raid release where a raid team is working on an already existing map and implements new events for 10-man group for that map that follow up the maps story. This way it would take away the whole aspect of designing raid maps and make raid releases way faster. Also if you have the map clear type of raids, more players probably would play them cause it's not all boss rushes that require the x builds etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Some maps could be more casual like the wintersday raid. > > > > > > > > > > I'm gonna ask, have you played any Raids in GW2? > > > > > > > > I have. What's the follow up? > > > > > > You are saying that these core tyria events will be something the raid team will work on... as if they aren't stretched thin already, with slow -actual- raid releases. You are also saying that these core tyria events will be equal to raid releases, meaning raid difficulty? How exactly do you expect an event that has a bunch of random Charr attacking a village be turned into Raid-level content? Which is why I asked if you've played Raids. To know the kind of coordination required to complete Raid bosses, compared to the abysmal level required to finish most events (large scale meta events require coordination). > > > > > > How do you expect something like the fight with Justiciar Hablion in Bloodstone Fen or the fight with Amala in Istan to be a equal to a "raid boss". If they allowed only 10 or 20 players instead of what we have now, these events won't suddenly become "Raids". They'd need to add a bazillion new abilities to the bosses in order to make them raid-like. And then you say that this will be "simple" to do. Right, remaking every single boss and every single mob that exists on all zones that will have "vanquishing" on is simple. I don't know what else to say. > > > > Well, if you are okay with 1 raid per year it's up to you. > > No I'm not ok with 1 raid per year. But what you are suggesting isn't raid and in order to make it look like a raid, it would make real raids appear once per 10 years. I think looking at having a hm on open world as raids wouldnt work. The thing that make ow ow is its size and number of ppl it can house, yes dificulty can go up to "challenge" big groups but expecting it to be like raids wont help anyone. I do think tho it will most likely require way less resources than making new areas and encounters as they are working with existing content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure there are maps in gw2 you can clear with 10-man group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So all the Heart of Thorns maps are off. Individual events in Path of Fire maps could work, but not if all the events are active at the same time. So in Desolation you'd get Junundu Rising and Maws of Torment running at the same time. That would be fun and exciting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that the living story chapter maps could be cleared with 10-man groups as well as most of core tyrian maps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like clearing Silverwastes with 10 people? Or Dragonfall? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for Core Tyria maps they have follow up events, some require you to succeed in the previous event, but there are also those that "require" failure. What happens then? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's take Brisban Wildlands, a gigantic zone with about 32 events give or take plus a 4-event meta. That's 36 events to "complete". What kind of rewards do you envision this type of content that will take literal hours to complete should give? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This suggestion doesn't necessarily mean that every map would get the vanquish thing, it could be just for season 5 ls maps for example. Ofc there are some maps that need reworks for vanquish if that would be implemented. Tho the problems you are describing are happening now already cause nobody actually plays the open world maps so the events might need a rework anyways? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They don't need a rework because nobody needs to finish all those events in a row. You go on the map to gather resources, do your dailies, bounties with guild members, wait for meta events or whatever, and at the same time while waiting you finish events around. That's how dynamic events are designed. They are not designed to be beaten and forgotten, nor to complete all of them in a row, like your vanquish idea. Individual meta events are well populated, when they are active, we have timers for that. Timers allow players to go to the events and know there will be others around, imagine if we didn't have events on timers, total chaos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 or 20 man content is also a terrible idea for guilds. Guilds aren't created to have a limited amount of players, some are large, others are small, a guild might field 9, another might get 21 players. The only way to make this work as a guild activity is to make meta events, and only meta events, instanced. An instanced Shadow Behemoth, an instanced Mega-destroyer, an instanced Golem MKII and so on. But even then, the question remains: why? What's the point? If you need some guild content to play with your guild, then your guild isn't a very good guild to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think of it as a raid release where a raid team is working on an already existing map and implements new events for 10-man group for that map that follow up the maps story. This way it would take away the whole aspect of designing raid maps and make raid releases way faster. Also if you have the map clear type of raids, more players probably would play them cause it's not all boss rushes that require the x builds etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some maps could be more casual like the wintersday raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm gonna ask, have you played any Raids in GW2? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have. What's the follow up? > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying that these core tyria events will be something the raid team will work on... as if they aren't stretched thin already, with slow -actual- raid releases. You are also saying that these core tyria events will be equal to raid releases, meaning raid difficulty? How exactly do you expect an event that has a bunch of random Charr attacking a village be turned into Raid-level content? Which is why I asked if you've played Raids. To know the kind of coordination required to complete Raid bosses, compared to the abysmal level required to finish most events (large scale meta events require coordination). > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you expect something like the fight with Justiciar Hablion in Bloodstone Fen or the fight with Amala in Istan to be a equal to a "raid boss". If they allowed only 10 or 20 players instead of what we have now, these events won't suddenly become "Raids". They'd need to add a bazillion new abilities to the bosses in order to make them raid-like. And then you say that this will be "simple" to do. Right, remaking every single boss and every single mob that exists on all zones that will have "vanquishing" on is simple. I don't know what else to say. > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you are okay with 1 raid per year it's up to you. > > > > > > > > No I'm not ok with 1 raid per year. But what you are suggesting isn't raid and in order to make it look like a raid, it would make real raids appear once per 10 years. > > > > > > What I am trying to suggest here is a raid content once per living story release using the living story release maps as raid maps in addition to use the same tech at some point to convert other maps too to be more casual raids. There's just not enough time for anet to do more than 1 raid per year. > > > > > > It would be the same type of endgame content that gw1 had like fissure of woe and underworld but in gw2. > > > > And what you are suggesting isn't going to work because "living story maps" can never be Raids. Unless they are re-worked and tweaked to the point that they are actual Raids (and those we all know how long it takes to develop) > > Unless the raid team has the map, models and areas planned them already so that they can focus solely on building encounters which would be the case in my suggestion. The raid team would have the raid map, it's events/mechanics and assets ready for the tweaking per living world release, maybe not right away but give them like 1 extra release schedule more and they have approx 8 months time to make the previous open world map as a raid encounter. Then we would have 1 raid per 4 months on every ls release and they'd have 8 months to develop the raid mechanics to the map. You still don't get it. open world map can never become raid encounters. Raids are closed-off experiences in order to have proper raid mechanics. You cannot close-off bosses and encounters in any of the open world maps. They will have almost nothing to work and rebuild every single mob and event from scratch. Go play a few Raids and you will notice the vast difference and why open world maps will never become raid maps, without a prohibiting amount of work. I'd rather we get normal Raids instead of this non-sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ace.9105 Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure there are maps in gw2 you can clear with 10-man group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So all the Heart of Thorns maps are off. Individual events in Path of Fire maps could work, but not if all the events are active at the same time. So in Desolation you'd get Junundu Rising and Maws of Torment running at the same time. That would be fun and exciting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that the living story chapter maps could be cleared with 10-man groups as well as most of core tyrian maps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like clearing Silverwastes with 10 people? Or Dragonfall? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for Core Tyria maps they have follow up events, some require you to succeed in the previous event, but there are also those that "require" failure. What happens then? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's take Brisban Wildlands, a gigantic zone with about 32 events give or take plus a 4-event meta. That's 36 events to "complete". What kind of rewards do you envision this type of content that will take literal hours to complete should give? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This suggestion doesn't necessarily mean that every map would get the vanquish thing, it could be just for season 5 ls maps for example. Ofc there are some maps that need reworks for vanquish if that would be implemented. Tho the problems you are describing are happening now already cause nobody actually plays the open world maps so the events might need a rework anyways? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They don't need a rework because nobody needs to finish all those events in a row. You go on the map to gather resources, do your dailies, bounties with guild members, wait for meta events or whatever, and at the same time while waiting you finish events around. That's how dynamic events are designed. They are not designed to be beaten and forgotten, nor to complete all of them in a row, like your vanquish idea. Individual meta events are well populated, when they are active, we have timers for that. Timers allow players to go to the events and know there will be others around, imagine if we didn't have events on timers, total chaos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 or 20 man content is also a terrible idea for guilds. Guilds aren't created to have a limited amount of players, some are large, others are small, a guild might field 9, another might get 21 players. The only way to make this work as a guild activity is to make meta events, and only meta events, instanced. An instanced Shadow Behemoth, an instanced Mega-destroyer, an instanced Golem MKII and so on. But even then, the question remains: why? What's the point? If you need some guild content to play with your guild, then your guild isn't a very good guild to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think of it as a raid release where a raid team is working on an already existing map and implements new events for 10-man group for that map that follow up the maps story. This way it would take away the whole aspect of designing raid maps and make raid releases way faster. Also if you have the map clear type of raids, more players probably would play them cause it's not all boss rushes that require the x builds etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some maps could be more casual like the wintersday raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm gonna ask, have you played any Raids in GW2? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have. What's the follow up? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying that these core tyria events will be something the raid team will work on... as if they aren't stretched thin already, with slow -actual- raid releases. You are also saying that these core tyria events will be equal to raid releases, meaning raid difficulty? How exactly do you expect an event that has a bunch of random Charr attacking a village be turned into Raid-level content? Which is why I asked if you've played Raids. To know the kind of coordination required to complete Raid bosses, compared to the abysmal level required to finish most events (large scale meta events require coordination). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you expect something like the fight with Justiciar Hablion in Bloodstone Fen or the fight with Amala in Istan to be a equal to a "raid boss". If they allowed only 10 or 20 players instead of what we have now, these events won't suddenly become "Raids". They'd need to add a bazillion new abilities to the bosses in order to make them raid-like. And then you say that this will be "simple" to do. Right, remaking every single boss and every single mob that exists on all zones that will have "vanquishing" on is simple. I don't know what else to say. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you are okay with 1 raid per year it's up to you. > > > > > > > > > > No I'm not ok with 1 raid per year. But what you are suggesting isn't raid and in order to make it look like a raid, it would make real raids appear once per 10 years. > > > > > > > > What I am trying to suggest here is a raid content once per living story release using the living story release maps as raid maps in addition to use the same tech at some point to convert other maps too to be more casual raids. There's just not enough time for anet to do more than 1 raid per year. > > > > > > > > It would be the same type of endgame content that gw1 had like fissure of woe and underworld but in gw2. > > > > > > And what you are suggesting isn't going to work because "living story maps" can never be Raids. Unless they are re-worked and tweaked to the point that they are actual Raids (and those we all know how long it takes to develop) > > > > Unless the raid team has the map, models and areas planned them already so that they can focus solely on building encounters which would be the case in my suggestion. The raid team would have the raid map, it's events/mechanics and assets ready for the tweaking per living world release, maybe not right away but give them like 1 extra release schedule more and they have approx 8 months time to make the previous open world map as a raid encounter. Then we would have 1 raid per 4 months on every ls release and they'd have 8 months to develop the raid mechanics to the map. > > You still don't get it. open world map can never become raid encounters. Raids are closed-off experiences in order to have proper raid mechanics. You cannot close-off bosses and encounters in any of the open world maps. They will have almost nothing to work and rebuild every single mob and event from scratch. Go play a few Raids and you will notice the vast difference and why open world maps will never become raid maps, without a prohibiting amount of work. I'd rather we get normal Raids instead of this non-sense. It seems that you don't get it. They can build the seperate raid instance but use the models/assets made on the open world map so that they don't have to waste their time making models and the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure there are maps in gw2 you can clear with 10-man group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So all the Heart of Thorns maps are off. Individual events in Path of Fire maps could work, but not if all the events are active at the same time. So in Desolation you'd get Junundu Rising and Maws of Torment running at the same time. That would be fun and exciting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that the living story chapter maps could be cleared with 10-man groups as well as most of core tyrian maps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like clearing Silverwastes with 10 people? Or Dragonfall? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for Core Tyria maps they have follow up events, some require you to succeed in the previous event, but there are also those that "require" failure. What happens then? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's take Brisban Wildlands, a gigantic zone with about 32 events give or take plus a 4-event meta. That's 36 events to "complete". What kind of rewards do you envision this type of content that will take literal hours to complete should give? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This suggestion doesn't necessarily mean that every map would get the vanquish thing, it could be just for season 5 ls maps for example. Ofc there are some maps that need reworks for vanquish if that would be implemented. Tho the problems you are describing are happening now already cause nobody actually plays the open world maps so the events might need a rework anyways? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They don't need a rework because nobody needs to finish all those events in a row. You go on the map to gather resources, do your dailies, bounties with guild members, wait for meta events or whatever, and at the same time while waiting you finish events around. That's how dynamic events are designed. They are not designed to be beaten and forgotten, nor to complete all of them in a row, like your vanquish idea. Individual meta events are well populated, when they are active, we have timers for that. Timers allow players to go to the events and know there will be others around, imagine if we didn't have events on timers, total chaos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 or 20 man content is also a terrible idea for guilds. Guilds aren't created to have a limited amount of players, some are large, others are small, a guild might field 9, another might get 21 players. The only way to make this work as a guild activity is to make meta events, and only meta events, instanced. An instanced Shadow Behemoth, an instanced Mega-destroyer, an instanced Golem MKII and so on. But even then, the question remains: why? What's the point? If you need some guild content to play with your guild, then your guild isn't a very good guild to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think of it as a raid release where a raid team is working on an already existing map and implements new events for 10-man group for that map that follow up the maps story. This way it would take away the whole aspect of designing raid maps and make raid releases way faster. Also if you have the map clear type of raids, more players probably would play them cause it's not all boss rushes that require the x builds etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some maps could be more casual like the wintersday raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm gonna ask, have you played any Raids in GW2? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have. What's the follow up? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying that these core tyria events will be something the raid team will work on... as if they aren't stretched thin already, with slow -actual- raid releases. You are also saying that these core tyria events will be equal to raid releases, meaning raid difficulty? How exactly do you expect an event that has a bunch of random Charr attacking a village be turned into Raid-level content? Which is why I asked if you've played Raids. To know the kind of coordination required to complete Raid bosses, compared to the abysmal level required to finish most events (large scale meta events require coordination). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you expect something like the fight with Justiciar Hablion in Bloodstone Fen or the fight with Amala in Istan to be a equal to a "raid boss". If they allowed only 10 or 20 players instead of what we have now, these events won't suddenly become "Raids". They'd need to add a bazillion new abilities to the bosses in order to make them raid-like. And then you say that this will be "simple" to do. Right, remaking every single boss and every single mob that exists on all zones that will have "vanquishing" on is simple. I don't know what else to say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you are okay with 1 raid per year it's up to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'm not ok with 1 raid per year. But what you are suggesting isn't raid and in order to make it look like a raid, it would make real raids appear once per 10 years. > > > > > > > > > > What I am trying to suggest here is a raid content once per living story release using the living story release maps as raid maps in addition to use the same tech at some point to convert other maps too to be more casual raids. There's just not enough time for anet to do more than 1 raid per year. > > > > > > > > > > It would be the same type of endgame content that gw1 had like fissure of woe and underworld but in gw2. > > > > > > > > And what you are suggesting isn't going to work because "living story maps" can never be Raids. Unless they are re-worked and tweaked to the point that they are actual Raids (and those we all know how long it takes to develop) > > > > > > Unless the raid team has the map, models and areas planned them already so that they can focus solely on building encounters which would be the case in my suggestion. The raid team would have the raid map, it's events/mechanics and assets ready for the tweaking per living world release, maybe not right away but give them like 1 extra release schedule more and they have approx 8 months time to make the previous open world map as a raid encounter. Then we would have 1 raid per 4 months on every ls release and they'd have 8 months to develop the raid mechanics to the map. > > > > You still don't get it. open world map can never become raid encounters. Raids are closed-off experiences in order to have proper raid mechanics. You cannot close-off bosses and encounters in any of the open world maps. They will have almost nothing to work and rebuild every single mob and event from scratch. Go play a few Raids and you will notice the vast difference and why open world maps will never become raid maps, without a prohibiting amount of work. I'd rather we get normal Raids instead of this non-sense. > > It seems that you don't get it. They can build the seperate raid instance but use the models/assets made on the open world map so that they don't have to waste their time making models and the map. The "raid instance" cannot use the same map. Once you enter a Raid and see a raid map you may figure it out. 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The Ace.9105 Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure there are maps in gw2 you can clear with 10-man group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So all the Heart of Thorns maps are off. Individual events in Path of Fire maps could work, but not if all the events are active at the same time. So in Desolation you'd get Junundu Rising and Maws of Torment running at the same time. That would be fun and exciting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that the living story chapter maps could be cleared with 10-man groups as well as most of core tyrian maps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like clearing Silverwastes with 10 people? Or Dragonfall? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for Core Tyria maps they have follow up events, some require you to succeed in the previous event, but there are also those that "require" failure. What happens then? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's take Brisban Wildlands, a gigantic zone with about 32 events give or take plus a 4-event meta. That's 36 events to "complete". What kind of rewards do you envision this type of content that will take literal hours to complete should give? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This suggestion doesn't necessarily mean that every map would get the vanquish thing, it could be just for season 5 ls maps for example. Ofc there are some maps that need reworks for vanquish if that would be implemented. Tho the problems you are describing are happening now already cause nobody actually plays the open world maps so the events might need a rework anyways? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They don't need a rework because nobody needs to finish all those events in a row. You go on the map to gather resources, do your dailies, bounties with guild members, wait for meta events or whatever, and at the same time while waiting you finish events around. That's how dynamic events are designed. They are not designed to be beaten and forgotten, nor to complete all of them in a row, like your vanquish idea. Individual meta events are well populated, when they are active, we have timers for that. Timers allow players to go to the events and know there will be others around, imagine if we didn't have events on timers, total chaos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 or 20 man content is also a terrible idea for guilds. Guilds aren't created to have a limited amount of players, some are large, others are small, a guild might field 9, another might get 21 players. The only way to make this work as a guild activity is to make meta events, and only meta events, instanced. An instanced Shadow Behemoth, an instanced Mega-destroyer, an instanced Golem MKII and so on. But even then, the question remains: why? What's the point? If you need some guild content to play with your guild, then your guild isn't a very good guild to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think of it as a raid release where a raid team is working on an already existing map and implements new events for 10-man group for that map that follow up the maps story. This way it would take away the whole aspect of designing raid maps and make raid releases way faster. Also if you have the map clear type of raids, more players probably would play them cause it's not all boss rushes that require the x builds etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some maps could be more casual like the wintersday raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm gonna ask, have you played any Raids in GW2? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have. What's the follow up? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying that these core tyria events will be something the raid team will work on... as if they aren't stretched thin already, with slow -actual- raid releases. You are also saying that these core tyria events will be equal to raid releases, meaning raid difficulty? How exactly do you expect an event that has a bunch of random Charr attacking a village be turned into Raid-level content? Which is why I asked if you've played Raids. To know the kind of coordination required to complete Raid bosses, compared to the abysmal level required to finish most events (large scale meta events require coordination). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you expect something like the fight with Justiciar Hablion in Bloodstone Fen or the fight with Amala in Istan to be a equal to a "raid boss". If they allowed only 10 or 20 players instead of what we have now, these events won't suddenly become "Raids". They'd need to add a bazillion new abilities to the bosses in order to make them raid-like. And then you say that this will be "simple" to do. Right, remaking every single boss and every single mob that exists on all zones that will have "vanquishing" on is simple. I don't know what else to say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you are okay with 1 raid per year it's up to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'm not ok with 1 raid per year. But what you are suggesting isn't raid and in order to make it look like a raid, it would make real raids appear once per 10 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > What I am trying to suggest here is a raid content once per living story release using the living story release maps as raid maps in addition to use the same tech at some point to convert other maps too to be more casual raids. There's just not enough time for anet to do more than 1 raid per year. > > > > > > > > > > > > It would be the same type of endgame content that gw1 had like fissure of woe and underworld but in gw2. > > > > > > > > > > And what you are suggesting isn't going to work because "living story maps" can never be Raids. Unless they are re-worked and tweaked to the point that they are actual Raids (and those we all know how long it takes to develop) > > > > > > > > Unless the raid team has the map, models and areas planned them already so that they can focus solely on building encounters which would be the case in my suggestion. The raid team would have the raid map, it's events/mechanics and assets ready for the tweaking per living world release, maybe not right away but give them like 1 extra release schedule more and they have approx 8 months time to make the previous open world map as a raid encounter. Then we would have 1 raid per 4 months on every ls release and they'd have 8 months to develop the raid mechanics to the map. > > > > > > You still don't get it. open world map can never become raid encounters. Raids are closed-off experiences in order to have proper raid mechanics. You cannot close-off bosses and encounters in any of the open world maps. They will have almost nothing to work and rebuild every single mob and event from scratch. Go play a few Raids and you will notice the vast difference and why open world maps will never become raid maps, without a prohibiting amount of work. I'd rather we get normal Raids instead of this non-sense. > > > > It seems that you don't get it. They can build the seperate raid instance but use the models/assets made on the open world map so that they don't have to waste their time making models and the map. > > The "raid instance" cannot use the same map. Once you enter a Raid and see a raid map you may figure it out. There's no reason why it couldn't use the same map? insert :waitwhat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure there are maps in gw2 you can clear with 10-man group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So all the Heart of Thorns maps are off. Individual events in Path of Fire maps could work, but not if all the events are active at the same time. So in Desolation you'd get Junundu Rising and Maws of Torment running at the same time. That would be fun and exciting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that the living story chapter maps could be cleared with 10-man groups as well as most of core tyrian maps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like clearing Silverwastes with 10 people? Or Dragonfall? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for Core Tyria maps they have follow up events, some require you to succeed in the previous event, but there are also those that "require" failure. What happens then? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's take Brisban Wildlands, a gigantic zone with about 32 events give or take plus a 4-event meta. That's 36 events to "complete". What kind of rewards do you envision this type of content that will take literal hours to complete should give? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This suggestion doesn't necessarily mean that every map would get the vanquish thing, it could be just for season 5 ls maps for example. Ofc there are some maps that need reworks for vanquish if that would be implemented. Tho the problems you are describing are happening now already cause nobody actually plays the open world maps so the events might need a rework anyways? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They don't need a rework because nobody needs to finish all those events in a row. You go on the map to gather resources, do your dailies, bounties with guild members, wait for meta events or whatever, and at the same time while waiting you finish events around. That's how dynamic events are designed. They are not designed to be beaten and forgotten, nor to complete all of them in a row, like your vanquish idea. Individual meta events are well populated, when they are active, we have timers for that. Timers allow players to go to the events and know there will be others around, imagine if we didn't have events on timers, total chaos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 or 20 man content is also a terrible idea for guilds. Guilds aren't created to have a limited amount of players, some are large, others are small, a guild might field 9, another might get 21 players. The only way to make this work as a guild activity is to make meta events, and only meta events, instanced. An instanced Shadow Behemoth, an instanced Mega-destroyer, an instanced Golem MKII and so on. But even then, the question remains: why? What's the point? If you need some guild content to play with your guild, then your guild isn't a very good guild to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think of it as a raid release where a raid team is working on an already existing map and implements new events for 10-man group for that map that follow up the maps story. This way it would take away the whole aspect of designing raid maps and make raid releases way faster. Also if you have the map clear type of raids, more players probably would play them cause it's not all boss rushes that require the x builds etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some maps could be more casual like the wintersday raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm gonna ask, have you played any Raids in GW2? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have. What's the follow up? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying that these core tyria events will be something the raid team will work on... as if they aren't stretched thin already, with slow -actual- raid releases. You are also saying that these core tyria events will be equal to raid releases, meaning raid difficulty? How exactly do you expect an event that has a bunch of random Charr attacking a village be turned into Raid-level content? Which is why I asked if you've played Raids. To know the kind of coordination required to complete Raid bosses, compared to the abysmal level required to finish most events (large scale meta events require coordination). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you expect something like the fight with Justiciar Hablion in Bloodstone Fen or the fight with Amala in Istan to be a equal to a "raid boss". If they allowed only 10 or 20 players instead of what we have now, these events won't suddenly become "Raids". They'd need to add a bazillion new abilities to the bosses in order to make them raid-like. And then you say that this will be "simple" to do. Right, remaking every single boss and every single mob that exists on all zones that will have "vanquishing" on is simple. I don't know what else to say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you are okay with 1 raid per year it's up to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'm not ok with 1 raid per year. But what you are suggesting isn't raid and in order to make it look like a raid, it would make real raids appear once per 10 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I am trying to suggest here is a raid content once per living story release using the living story release maps as raid maps in addition to use the same tech at some point to convert other maps too to be more casual raids. There's just not enough time for anet to do more than 1 raid per year. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would be the same type of endgame content that gw1 had like fissure of woe and underworld but in gw2. > > > > > > > > > > > > And what you are suggesting isn't going to work because "living story maps" can never be Raids. Unless they are re-worked and tweaked to the point that they are actual Raids (and those we all know how long it takes to develop) > > > > > > > > > > Unless the raid team has the map, models and areas planned them already so that they can focus solely on building encounters which would be the case in my suggestion. The raid team would have the raid map, it's events/mechanics and assets ready for the tweaking per living world release, maybe not right away but give them like 1 extra release schedule more and they have approx 8 months time to make the previous open world map as a raid encounter. Then we would have 1 raid per 4 months on every ls release and they'd have 8 months to develop the raid mechanics to the map. > > > > > > > > You still don't get it. open world map can never become raid encounters. Raids are closed-off experiences in order to have proper raid mechanics. You cannot close-off bosses and encounters in any of the open world maps. They will have almost nothing to work and rebuild every single mob and event from scratch. Go play a few Raids and you will notice the vast difference and why open world maps will never become raid maps, without a prohibiting amount of work. I'd rather we get normal Raids instead of this non-sense. > > > > > > It seems that you don't get it. They can build the seperate raid instance but use the models/assets made on the open world map so that they don't have to waste their time making models and the map. > > > > The "raid instance" cannot use the same map. Once you enter a Raid and see a raid map you may figure it out. > > There's no reason why it couldn't use the same map? insert :waitwhat: Raid bosses are fought inside clear arenas so their mechanics are spread around and use said arena. From a circular arena of VG that lit up segments to hurt players, to Gorseval having ghost walls that you must break and glide back to the platform, to any of the Wing 7 bosses that always make clever use of the terrain. No open world map has enough such areas that can be designated for Raid fights. Maybe a boss or two, like the bosses at the end of Silverwastes meta, but that's it. Using the current maps means a large, boring map with lots of trash mobs and no good fights. Actual Raiders hate fighting trash mobs, Raids are about fighting exciting/challenging bosses, not moving in large open ended maps killing trash mobs or doing open world events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ace.9105 Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure there are maps in gw2 you can clear with 10-man group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So all the Heart of Thorns maps are off. Individual events in Path of Fire maps could work, but not if all the events are active at the same time. So in Desolation you'd get Junundu Rising and Maws of Torment running at the same time. That would be fun and exciting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that the living story chapter maps could be cleared with 10-man groups as well as most of core tyrian maps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like clearing Silverwastes with 10 people? Or Dragonfall? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for Core Tyria maps they have follow up events, some require you to succeed in the previous event, but there are also those that "require" failure. What happens then? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's take Brisban Wildlands, a gigantic zone with about 32 events give or take plus a 4-event meta. That's 36 events to "complete". What kind of rewards do you envision this type of content that will take literal hours to complete should give? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This suggestion doesn't necessarily mean that every map would get the vanquish thing, it could be just for season 5 ls maps for example. Ofc there are some maps that need reworks for vanquish if that would be implemented. Tho the problems you are describing are happening now already cause nobody actually plays the open world maps so the events might need a rework anyways? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They don't need a rework because nobody needs to finish all those events in a row. You go on the map to gather resources, do your dailies, bounties with guild members, wait for meta events or whatever, and at the same time while waiting you finish events around. That's how dynamic events are designed. They are not designed to be beaten and forgotten, nor to complete all of them in a row, like your vanquish idea. Individual meta events are well populated, when they are active, we have timers for that. Timers allow players to go to the events and know there will be others around, imagine if we didn't have events on timers, total chaos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 or 20 man content is also a terrible idea for guilds. Guilds aren't created to have a limited amount of players, some are large, others are small, a guild might field 9, another might get 21 players. The only way to make this work as a guild activity is to make meta events, and only meta events, instanced. An instanced Shadow Behemoth, an instanced Mega-destroyer, an instanced Golem MKII and so on. But even then, the question remains: why? What's the point? If you need some guild content to play with your guild, then your guild isn't a very good guild to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think of it as a raid release where a raid team is working on an already existing map and implements new events for 10-man group for that map that follow up the maps story. This way it would take away the whole aspect of designing raid maps and make raid releases way faster. Also if you have the map clear type of raids, more players probably would play them cause it's not all boss rushes that require the x builds etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some maps could be more casual like the wintersday raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm gonna ask, have you played any Raids in GW2? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have. What's the follow up? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying that these core tyria events will be something the raid team will work on... as if they aren't stretched thin already, with slow -actual- raid releases. You are also saying that these core tyria events will be equal to raid releases, meaning raid difficulty? How exactly do you expect an event that has a bunch of random Charr attacking a village be turned into Raid-level content? Which is why I asked if you've played Raids. To know the kind of coordination required to complete Raid bosses, compared to the abysmal level required to finish most events (large scale meta events require coordination). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you expect something like the fight with Justiciar Hablion in Bloodstone Fen or the fight with Amala in Istan to be a equal to a "raid boss". If they allowed only 10 or 20 players instead of what we have now, these events won't suddenly become "Raids". They'd need to add a bazillion new abilities to the bosses in order to make them raid-like. And then you say that this will be "simple" to do. Right, remaking every single boss and every single mob that exists on all zones that will have "vanquishing" on is simple. I don't know what else to say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you are okay with 1 raid per year it's up to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'm not ok with 1 raid per year. But what you are suggesting isn't raid and in order to make it look like a raid, it would make real raids appear once per 10 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I am trying to suggest here is a raid content once per living story release using the living story release maps as raid maps in addition to use the same tech at some point to convert other maps too to be more casual raids. There's just not enough time for anet to do more than 1 raid per year. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would be the same type of endgame content that gw1 had like fissure of woe and underworld but in gw2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what you are suggesting isn't going to work because "living story maps" can never be Raids. Unless they are re-worked and tweaked to the point that they are actual Raids (and those we all know how long it takes to develop) > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless the raid team has the map, models and areas planned them already so that they can focus solely on building encounters which would be the case in my suggestion. The raid team would have the raid map, it's events/mechanics and assets ready for the tweaking per living world release, maybe not right away but give them like 1 extra release schedule more and they have approx 8 months time to make the previous open world map as a raid encounter. Then we would have 1 raid per 4 months on every ls release and they'd have 8 months to develop the raid mechanics to the map. > > > > > > > > > > You still don't get it. open world map can never become raid encounters. Raids are closed-off experiences in order to have proper raid mechanics. You cannot close-off bosses and encounters in any of the open world maps. They will have almost nothing to work and rebuild every single mob and event from scratch. Go play a few Raids and you will notice the vast difference and why open world maps will never become raid maps, without a prohibiting amount of work. I'd rather we get normal Raids instead of this non-sense. > > > > > > > > It seems that you don't get it. They can build the seperate raid instance but use the models/assets made on the open world map so that they don't have to waste their time making models and the map. > > > > > > The "raid instance" cannot use the same map. Once you enter a Raid and see a raid map you may figure it out. > > > > There's no reason why it couldn't use the same map? insert :waitwhat: > > Raid bosses are fought inside clear arenas so their mechanics are spread around and use said arena. From a circular arena of VG that lit up segments to hurt players, to Gorseval having ghost walls that you must break and glide back to the platform, to any of the Wing 7 bosses that always make clever use of the terrain. No open world map has enough such areas that can be designated for Raid fights. Maybe a boss or two, like the bosses at the end of Silverwastes meta, but that's it. > > Using the current maps means a large, boring map with lots of trash mobs and no good fights. Actual Raiders hate fighting trash mobs, Raids are about fighting exciting/challenging bosses, not moving in large open ended maps killing trash mobs or doing open world events. And what exactly is stopping anet to create a circle around the boss where you have to fight against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure there are maps in gw2 you can clear with 10-man group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So all the Heart of Thorns maps are off. Individual events in Path of Fire maps could work, but not if all the events are active at the same time. So in Desolation you'd get Junundu Rising and Maws of Torment running at the same time. That would be fun and exciting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that the living story chapter maps could be cleared with 10-man groups as well as most of core tyrian maps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like clearing Silverwastes with 10 people? Or Dragonfall? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for Core Tyria maps they have follow up events, some require you to succeed in the previous event, but there are also those that "require" failure. What happens then? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's take Brisban Wildlands, a gigantic zone with about 32 events give or take plus a 4-event meta. That's 36 events to "complete". What kind of rewards do you envision this type of content that will take literal hours to complete should give? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This suggestion doesn't necessarily mean that every map would get the vanquish thing, it could be just for season 5 ls maps for example. Ofc there are some maps that need reworks for vanquish if that would be implemented. Tho the problems you are describing are happening now already cause nobody actually plays the open world maps so the events might need a rework anyways? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They don't need a rework because nobody needs to finish all those events in a row. You go on the map to gather resources, do your dailies, bounties with guild members, wait for meta events or whatever, and at the same time while waiting you finish events around. That's how dynamic events are designed. They are not designed to be beaten and forgotten, nor to complete all of them in a row, like your vanquish idea. Individual meta events are well populated, when they are active, we have timers for that. Timers allow players to go to the events and know there will be others around, imagine if we didn't have events on timers, total chaos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 or 20 man content is also a terrible idea for guilds. Guilds aren't created to have a limited amount of players, some are large, others are small, a guild might field 9, another might get 21 players. The only way to make this work as a guild activity is to make meta events, and only meta events, instanced. An instanced Shadow Behemoth, an instanced Mega-destroyer, an instanced Golem MKII and so on. But even then, the question remains: why? What's the point? If you need some guild content to play with your guild, then your guild isn't a very good guild to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think of it as a raid release where a raid team is working on an already existing map and implements new events for 10-man group for that map that follow up the maps story. This way it would take away the whole aspect of designing raid maps and make raid releases way faster. Also if you have the map clear type of raids, more players probably would play them cause it's not all boss rushes that require the x builds etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some maps could be more casual like the wintersday raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm gonna ask, have you played any Raids in GW2? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have. What's the follow up? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying that these core tyria events will be something the raid team will work on... as if they aren't stretched thin already, with slow -actual- raid releases. You are also saying that these core tyria events will be equal to raid releases, meaning raid difficulty? How exactly do you expect an event that has a bunch of random Charr attacking a village be turned into Raid-level content? Which is why I asked if you've played Raids. To know the kind of coordination required to complete Raid bosses, compared to the abysmal level required to finish most events (large scale meta events require coordination). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you expect something like the fight with Justiciar Hablion in Bloodstone Fen or the fight with Amala in Istan to be a equal to a "raid boss". If they allowed only 10 or 20 players instead of what we have now, these events won't suddenly become "Raids". They'd need to add a bazillion new abilities to the bosses in order to make them raid-like. And then you say that this will be "simple" to do. Right, remaking every single boss and every single mob that exists on all zones that will have "vanquishing" on is simple. I don't know what else to say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you are okay with 1 raid per year it's up to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'm not ok with 1 raid per year. But what you are suggesting isn't raid and in order to make it look like a raid, it would make real raids appear once per 10 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I am trying to suggest here is a raid content once per living story release using the living story release maps as raid maps in addition to use the same tech at some point to convert other maps too to be more casual raids. There's just not enough time for anet to do more than 1 raid per year. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would be the same type of endgame content that gw1 had like fissure of woe and underworld but in gw2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what you are suggesting isn't going to work because "living story maps" can never be Raids. Unless they are re-worked and tweaked to the point that they are actual Raids (and those we all know how long it takes to develop) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless the raid team has the map, models and areas planned them already so that they can focus solely on building encounters which would be the case in my suggestion. The raid team would have the raid map, it's events/mechanics and assets ready for the tweaking per living world release, maybe not right away but give them like 1 extra release schedule more and they have approx 8 months time to make the previous open world map as a raid encounter. Then we would have 1 raid per 4 months on every ls release and they'd have 8 months to develop the raid mechanics to the map. > > > > > > > > > > > > You still don't get it. open world map can never become raid encounters. Raids are closed-off experiences in order to have proper raid mechanics. You cannot close-off bosses and encounters in any of the open world maps. They will have almost nothing to work and rebuild every single mob and event from scratch. Go play a few Raids and you will notice the vast difference and why open world maps will never become raid maps, without a prohibiting amount of work. I'd rather we get normal Raids instead of this non-sense. > > > > > > > > > > It seems that you don't get it. They can build the seperate raid instance but use the models/assets made on the open world map so that they don't have to waste their time making models and the map. > > > > > > > > The "raid instance" cannot use the same map. Once you enter a Raid and see a raid map you may figure it out. > > > > > > There's no reason why it couldn't use the same map? insert :waitwhat: > > > > Raid bosses are fought inside clear arenas so their mechanics are spread around and use said arena. From a circular arena of VG that lit up segments to hurt players, to Gorseval having ghost walls that you must break and glide back to the platform, to any of the Wing 7 bosses that always make clever use of the terrain. No open world map has enough such areas that can be designated for Raid fights. Maybe a boss or two, like the bosses at the end of Silverwastes meta, but that's it. > > > > Using the current maps means a large, boring map with lots of trash mobs and no good fights. Actual Raiders hate fighting trash mobs, Raids are about fighting exciting/challenging bosses, not moving in large open ended maps killing trash mobs or doing open world events. > > And what exactly is stopping anet to create a circle around the boss where you have to fight against it? Check the open world maps and the Raid maps for the reason why :) And besides you said to finish events, how many events end in big boss fights? The rest is tedious/boring trash mobs. Not really what Raids are all about. Now it's clear you've never set foot inside any Raid in the game. Playing at least one will show you why the open world can never be used as a substitute for Raids. And getting the Raid team to create this tedious/boring "world instance" of yours is a total waste of resources, I'd rather they work on their actual Raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ace.9105 Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure there are maps in gw2 you can clear with 10-man group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So all the Heart of Thorns maps are off. Individual events in Path of Fire maps could work, but not if all the events are active at the same time. So in Desolation you'd get Junundu Rising and Maws of Torment running at the same time. That would be fun and exciting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that the living story chapter maps could be cleared with 10-man groups as well as most of core tyrian maps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like clearing Silverwastes with 10 people? Or Dragonfall? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for Core Tyria maps they have follow up events, some require you to succeed in the previous event, but there are also those that "require" failure. What happens then? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's take Brisban Wildlands, a gigantic zone with about 32 events give or take plus a 4-event meta. That's 36 events to "complete". What kind of rewards do you envision this type of content that will take literal hours to complete should give? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This suggestion doesn't necessarily mean that every map would get the vanquish thing, it could be just for season 5 ls maps for example. Ofc there are some maps that need reworks for vanquish if that would be implemented. Tho the problems you are describing are happening now already cause nobody actually plays the open world maps so the events might need a rework anyways? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They don't need a rework because nobody needs to finish all those events in a row. You go on the map to gather resources, do your dailies, bounties with guild members, wait for meta events or whatever, and at the same time while waiting you finish events around. That's how dynamic events are designed. They are not designed to be beaten and forgotten, nor to complete all of them in a row, like your vanquish idea. Individual meta events are well populated, when they are active, we have timers for that. Timers allow players to go to the events and know there will be others around, imagine if we didn't have events on timers, total chaos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 or 20 man content is also a terrible idea for guilds. Guilds aren't created to have a limited amount of players, some are large, others are small, a guild might field 9, another might get 21 players. The only way to make this work as a guild activity is to make meta events, and only meta events, instanced. An instanced Shadow Behemoth, an instanced Mega-destroyer, an instanced Golem MKII and so on. But even then, the question remains: why? What's the point? If you need some guild content to play with your guild, then your guild isn't a very good guild to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think of it as a raid release where a raid team is working on an already existing map and implements new events for 10-man group for that map that follow up the maps story. This way it would take away the whole aspect of designing raid maps and make raid releases way faster. Also if you have the map clear type of raids, more players probably would play them cause it's not all boss rushes that require the x builds etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some maps could be more casual like the wintersday raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm gonna ask, have you played any Raids in GW2? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have. What's the follow up? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying that these core tyria events will be something the raid team will work on... as if they aren't stretched thin already, with slow -actual- raid releases. You are also saying that these core tyria events will be equal to raid releases, meaning raid difficulty? How exactly do you expect an event that has a bunch of random Charr attacking a village be turned into Raid-level content? Which is why I asked if you've played Raids. To know the kind of coordination required to complete Raid bosses, compared to the abysmal level required to finish most events (large scale meta events require coordination). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you expect something like the fight with Justiciar Hablion in Bloodstone Fen or the fight with Amala in Istan to be a equal to a "raid boss". If they allowed only 10 or 20 players instead of what we have now, these events won't suddenly become "Raids". They'd need to add a bazillion new abilities to the bosses in order to make them raid-like. And then you say that this will be "simple" to do. Right, remaking every single boss and every single mob that exists on all zones that will have "vanquishing" on is simple. I don't know what else to say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you are okay with 1 raid per year it's up to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'm not ok with 1 raid per year. But what you are suggesting isn't raid and in order to make it look like a raid, it would make real raids appear once per 10 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I am trying to suggest here is a raid content once per living story release using the living story release maps as raid maps in addition to use the same tech at some point to convert other maps too to be more casual raids. There's just not enough time for anet to do more than 1 raid per year. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would be the same type of endgame content that gw1 had like fissure of woe and underworld but in gw2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what you are suggesting isn't going to work because "living story maps" can never be Raids. Unless they are re-worked and tweaked to the point that they are actual Raids (and those we all know how long it takes to develop) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless the raid team has the map, models and areas planned them already so that they can focus solely on building encounters which would be the case in my suggestion. The raid team would have the raid map, it's events/mechanics and assets ready for the tweaking per living world release, maybe not right away but give them like 1 extra release schedule more and they have approx 8 months time to make the previous open world map as a raid encounter. Then we would have 1 raid per 4 months on every ls release and they'd have 8 months to develop the raid mechanics to the map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still don't get it. open world map can never become raid encounters. Raids are closed-off experiences in order to have proper raid mechanics. You cannot close-off bosses and encounters in any of the open world maps. They will have almost nothing to work and rebuild every single mob and event from scratch. Go play a few Raids and you will notice the vast difference and why open world maps will never become raid maps, without a prohibiting amount of work. I'd rather we get normal Raids instead of this non-sense. > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems that you don't get it. They can build the seperate raid instance but use the models/assets made on the open world map so that they don't have to waste their time making models and the map. > > > > > > > > > > The "raid instance" cannot use the same map. Once you enter a Raid and see a raid map you may figure it out. > > > > > > > > There's no reason why it couldn't use the same map? insert :waitwhat: > > > > > > Raid bosses are fought inside clear arenas so their mechanics are spread around and use said arena. From a circular arena of VG that lit up segments to hurt players, to Gorseval having ghost walls that you must break and glide back to the platform, to any of the Wing 7 bosses that always make clever use of the terrain. No open world map has enough such areas that can be designated for Raid fights. Maybe a boss or two, like the bosses at the end of Silverwastes meta, but that's it. > > > > > > Using the current maps means a large, boring map with lots of trash mobs and no good fights. Actual Raiders hate fighting trash mobs, Raids are about fighting exciting/challenging bosses, not moving in large open ended maps killing trash mobs or doing open world events. > > > > And what exactly is stopping anet to create a circle around the boss where you have to fight against it? > > Check the open world maps and the Raid maps for the reason why :) And besides you said to finish events, how many events end in big boss fights? The rest is tedious/boring trash mobs. Not really what Raids are all about. Now it's clear you've never set foot inside any Raid in the game. Playing at least one will show you why the open world can never be used as a substitute for Raids. And getting the Raid team to create this tedious/boring "world instance" of yours is a total waste of resources, I'd rather they work on their actual Raids. What if when they make the new living story map they'd design it to fit open world and raid and then the raid team would implement raid mechanics there? :) Or what if they add a boss at the end of some events using some already existing models from that map? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure there are maps in gw2 you can clear with 10-man group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So all the Heart of Thorns maps are off. Individual events in Path of Fire maps could work, but not if all the events are active at the same time. So in Desolation you'd get Junundu Rising and Maws of Torment running at the same time. That would be fun and exciting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd say that the living story chapter maps could be cleared with 10-man groups as well as most of core tyrian maps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like clearing Silverwastes with 10 people? Or Dragonfall? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for Core Tyria maps they have follow up events, some require you to succeed in the previous event, but there are also those that "require" failure. What happens then? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's take Brisban Wildlands, a gigantic zone with about 32 events give or take plus a 4-event meta. That's 36 events to "complete". What kind of rewards do you envision this type of content that will take literal hours to complete should give? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This suggestion doesn't necessarily mean that every map would get the vanquish thing, it could be just for season 5 ls maps for example. Ofc there are some maps that need reworks for vanquish if that would be implemented. Tho the problems you are describing are happening now already cause nobody actually plays the open world maps so the events might need a rework anyways? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They don't need a rework because nobody needs to finish all those events in a row. You go on the map to gather resources, do your dailies, bounties with guild members, wait for meta events or whatever, and at the same time while waiting you finish events around. That's how dynamic events are designed. They are not designed to be beaten and forgotten, nor to complete all of them in a row, like your vanquish idea. Individual meta events are well populated, when they are active, we have timers for that. Timers allow players to go to the events and know there will be others around, imagine if we didn't have events on timers, total chaos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 or 20 man content is also a terrible idea for guilds. Guilds aren't created to have a limited amount of players, some are large, others are small, a guild might field 9, another might get 21 players. The only way to make this work as a guild activity is to make meta events, and only meta events, instanced. An instanced Shadow Behemoth, an instanced Mega-destroyer, an instanced Golem MKII and so on. But even then, the question remains: why? What's the point? If you need some guild content to play with your guild, then your guild isn't a very good guild to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think of it as a raid release where a raid team is working on an already existing map and implements new events for 10-man group for that map that follow up the maps story. This way it would take away the whole aspect of designing raid maps and make raid releases way faster. Also if you have the map clear type of raids, more players probably would play them cause it's not all boss rushes that require the x builds etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some maps could be more casual like the wintersday raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm gonna ask, have you played any Raids in GW2? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have. What's the follow up? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying that these core tyria events will be something the raid team will work on... as if they aren't stretched thin already, with slow -actual- raid releases. You are also saying that these core tyria events will be equal to raid releases, meaning raid difficulty? How exactly do you expect an event that has a bunch of random Charr attacking a village be turned into Raid-level content? Which is why I asked if you've played Raids. To know the kind of coordination required to complete Raid bosses, compared to the abysmal level required to finish most events (large scale meta events require coordination). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you expect something like the fight with Justiciar Hablion in Bloodstone Fen or the fight with Amala in Istan to be a equal to a "raid boss". If they allowed only 10 or 20 players instead of what we have now, these events won't suddenly become "Raids". They'd need to add a bazillion new abilities to the bosses in order to make them raid-like. And then you say that this will be "simple" to do. Right, remaking every single boss and every single mob that exists on all zones that will have "vanquishing" on is simple. I don't know what else to say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if you are okay with 1 raid per year it's up to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'm not ok with 1 raid per year. But what you are suggesting isn't raid and in order to make it look like a raid, it would make real raids appear once per 10 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I am trying to suggest here is a raid content once per living story release using the living story release maps as raid maps in addition to use the same tech at some point to convert other maps too to be more casual raids. There's just not enough time for anet to do more than 1 raid per year. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would be the same type of endgame content that gw1 had like fissure of woe and underworld but in gw2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what you are suggesting isn't going to work because "living story maps" can never be Raids. Unless they are re-worked and tweaked to the point that they are actual Raids (and those we all know how long it takes to develop) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless the raid team has the map, models and areas planned them already so that they can focus solely on building encounters which would be the case in my suggestion. The raid team would have the raid map, it's events/mechanics and assets ready for the tweaking per living world release, maybe not right away but give them like 1 extra release schedule more and they have approx 8 months time to make the previous open world map as a raid encounter. Then we would have 1 raid per 4 months on every ls release and they'd have 8 months to develop the raid mechanics to the map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You still don't get it. open world map can never become raid encounters. Raids are closed-off experiences in order to have proper raid mechanics. You cannot close-off bosses and encounters in any of the open world maps. They will have almost nothing to work and rebuild every single mob and event from scratch. Go play a few Raids and you will notice the vast difference and why open world maps will never become raid maps, without a prohibiting amount of work. I'd rather we get normal Raids instead of this non-sense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems that you don't get it. They can build the seperate raid instance but use the models/assets made on the open world map so that they don't have to waste their time making models and the map. > > > > > > > > > > > > The "raid instance" cannot use the same map. Once you enter a Raid and see a raid map you may figure it out. > > > > > > > > > > There's no reason why it couldn't use the same map? insert :waitwhat: > > > > > > > > Raid bosses are fought inside clear arenas so their mechanics are spread around and use said arena. From a circular arena of VG that lit up segments to hurt players, to Gorseval having ghost walls that you must break and glide back to the platform, to any of the Wing 7 bosses that always make clever use of the terrain. No open world map has enough such areas that can be designated for Raid fights. Maybe a boss or two, like the bosses at the end of Silverwastes meta, but that's it. > > > > > > > > Using the current maps means a large, boring map with lots of trash mobs and no good fights. Actual Raiders hate fighting trash mobs, Raids are about fighting exciting/challenging bosses, not moving in large open ended maps killing trash mobs or doing open world events. > > > > > > And what exactly is stopping anet to create a circle around the boss where you have to fight against it? > > > > Check the open world maps and the Raid maps for the reason why :) And besides you said to finish events, how many events end in big boss fights? The rest is tedious/boring trash mobs. Not really what Raids are all about. Now it's clear you've never set foot inside any Raid in the game. Playing at least one will show you why the open world can never be used as a substitute for Raids. And getting the Raid team to create this tedious/boring "world instance" of yours is a total waste of resources, I'd rather they work on their actual Raids. > > What if when they make the new living story map they'd design it to fit open world and raid and then the raid team would implement raid mechanics there? :) That would mean the living world map won't be open enough and be full of small passages and corridors (like Raid maps) not sure it's a good idea to make their "open" world maps like dungeons, but if they did it could work. Not on older zones though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelphagor.3420 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 It will be really nice if they add some kind of vanquishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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