Sovereign.1093 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > just some lucky fights we got. > > > > > > > > this is so because we are not many. if u got nos. you got a lot of advantage. > > > > > > [https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM](https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM "https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM") and this is what im talking about. > > > > well, nos. equal damage. and surprise attacks kill. > > > > if you want a counter to your scourge problem. just have a group with fb rev scrappers in it with its own scourge scourge. > > > > if you got 35 to 70, then fight someone without having to use veil or invis. it will not be a quick one unless you fight enemies with less experience. > > > > w/c server are you? > > The original point is overall dmg is too high and fights were ended too fast. that's why i made this post. > > And I am on WSR the most 2nd stacked server on EU. > well your problem isnt damage. you just got numbers. :/ before shades were really op, now its so easy to avoid. everything has been nerfed u know also there are some talented players in wsr, some players transfered there last year, dunno now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"Justine.6351" said: > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > How hard do we really need to curbstomp staff ele? > > > > > Whats next? Nerf fireball so it only hits 1 target? Remove the evade off Burning Retreat? > > > > > > > > just tear down a bit of meteor dmg is enough. > > > > > > I play a glass cannon hammer rev and meteors from a glass ele hit me for like 8-10k. What I have learned may shock you / 99% of people wont believe how easy this trick is ! > > > > > > >! Don't stand in meteor shower. > > > > As i replyed to others, Meteor is more acceptable cuz it takes skill to cast and place properly but Hammer Rev is spammable and even braindead players can spam 8k-10k dmg for the whole fight. > > Really? Cool I would like to see a vid of a hammer rev spamming 8-10k damage strikes for a minute straight. A video of a rev autoattacking for a minute sounds little boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewfield.7802 Posted August 1, 2019 Author Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"Justine.6351" said: > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > How hard do we really need to curbstomp staff ele? > > > > > Whats next? Nerf fireball so it only hits 1 target? Remove the evade off Burning Retreat? > > > > > > > > just tear down a bit of meteor dmg is enough. > > > > > > I play a glass cannon hammer rev and meteors from a glass ele hit me for like 8-10k. What I have learned may shock you / 99% of people wont believe how easy this trick is ! > > > > > > >! Don't stand in meteor shower. > > > > As i replyed to others, Meteor is more acceptable cuz it takes skill to cast and place properly but Hammer Rev is spammable and even braindead players can spam 8k-10k dmg for the whole fight. > > Really? Cool I would like to see a vid of a hammer rev spamming 8-10k damage strikes for a minute straight. This is the most updated and This number is as most close as i could find atm. But this one is a veteran player. [https://youtu.be/9DUkJW_lSj4](https://youtu.be/9DUkJW_lSj4 "https://youtu.be/9DUkJW_lSj4") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewfield.7802 Posted August 1, 2019 Author Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just some lucky fights we got. > > > > > > > > > > this is so because we are not many. if u got nos. you got a lot of advantage. > > > > > > > > [https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM](https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM "https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM") and this is what im talking about. > > > > > > well, nos. equal damage. and surprise attacks kill. > > > > > > if you want a counter to your scourge problem. just have a group with fb rev scrappers in it with its own scourge scourge. > > > > > > if you got 35 to 70, then fight someone without having to use veil or invis. it will not be a quick one unless you fight enemies with less experience. > > > > > > w/c server are you? > > > > The original point is overall dmg is too high and fights were ended too fast. that's why i made this post. > > > > And I am on WSR the most 2nd stacked server on EU. > > > > well your problem isnt damage. you just got numbers. :/ before shades were really op, now its so easy to avoid. > > everything has been nerfed u know > > also there are some talented players in wsr, some players transfered there last year, dunno now. But you know Anet cant control the number of ppl right so they need to fix the number of dmg instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just some lucky fights we got. > > > > > > > > > > > > this is so because we are not many. if u got nos. you got a lot of advantage. > > > > > > > > > > [https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM](https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM "https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM") and this is what im talking about. > > > > > > > > well, nos. equal damage. and surprise attacks kill. > > > > > > > > if you want a counter to your scourge problem. just have a group with fb rev scrappers in it with its own scourge scourge. > > > > > > > > if you got 35 to 70, then fight someone without having to use veil or invis. it will not be a quick one unless you fight enemies with less experience. > > > > > > > > w/c server are you? > > > > > > The original point is overall dmg is too high and fights were ended too fast. that's why i made this post. > > > > > > And I am on WSR the most 2nd stacked server on EU. > > > > > > > well your problem isnt damage. you just got numbers. :/ before shades were really op, now its so easy to avoid. > > > > everything has been nerfed u know > > > > also there are some talented players in wsr, some players transfered there last year, dunno now. > > But you know Anet cant control the number of ppl right so they need to fix the number of dmg instead. meh, no. in that instance my small team cant fight 2 to 3 our numbers if we cant kill them. ppl just need to get good. theres a lot of ways to counter a blob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewfield.7802 Posted August 1, 2019 Author Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just some lucky fights we got. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is so because we are not many. if u got nos. you got a lot of advantage. > > > > > > > > > > > > [https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM](https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM "https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM") and this is what im talking about. > > > > > > > > > > well, nos. equal damage. and surprise attacks kill. > > > > > > > > > > if you want a counter to your scourge problem. just have a group with fb rev scrappers in it with its own scourge scourge. > > > > > > > > > > if you got 35 to 70, then fight someone without having to use veil or invis. it will not be a quick one unless you fight enemies with less experience. > > > > > > > > > > w/c server are you? > > > > > > > > The original point is overall dmg is too high and fights were ended too fast. that's why i made this post. > > > > > > > > And I am on WSR the most 2nd stacked server on EU. > > > > > > > > > > well your problem isnt damage. you just got numbers. :/ before shades were really op, now its so easy to avoid. > > > > > > everything has been nerfed u know > > > > > > also there are some talented players in wsr, some players transfered there last year, dunno now. > > > > But you know Anet cant control the number of ppl right so they need to fix the number of dmg instead. > > meh, no. in that instance my small team cant fight 2 to 3 our numbers if we cant kill them. ppl just need to get good. theres a lot of ways to counter a blob. [https://youtu.be/2ftinbj1gBI](https://youtu.be/2ftinbj1gBI " ") Im gonna show you the state of the game during HoT era. Less Dmg , More Movement, Longer Sustain, Longer Fight = More FUN This is what I want. you can even burst zerg/blob with small number. At the current state you completely cant no matter how good you are, you cant 15 vs 30-40 (if those 30 are not completely braindead), just believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just some lucky fights we got. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is so because we are not many. if u got nos. you got a lot of advantage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM](https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM "https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM") and this is what im talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > well, nos. equal damage. and surprise attacks kill. > > > > > > > > > > > > if you want a counter to your scourge problem. just have a group with fb rev scrappers in it with its own scourge scourge. > > > > > > > > > > > > if you got 35 to 70, then fight someone without having to use veil or invis. it will not be a quick one unless you fight enemies with less experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > w/c server are you? > > > > > > > > > > The original point is overall dmg is too high and fights were ended too fast. that's why i made this post. > > > > > > > > > > And I am on WSR the most 2nd stacked server on EU. > > > > > > > > > > > > > well your problem isnt damage. you just got numbers. :/ before shades were really op, now its so easy to avoid. > > > > > > > > everything has been nerfed u know > > > > > > > > also there are some talented players in wsr, some players transfered there last year, dunno now. > > > > > > But you know Anet cant control the number of ppl right so they need to fix the number of dmg instead. > > > > meh, no. in that instance my small team cant fight 2 to 3 our numbers if we cant kill them. ppl just need to get good. theres a lot of ways to counter a blob. > > [https://youtu.be/2ftinbj1gBI](https://youtu.be/2ftinbj1gBI "https://youtu.be/2ftinbj1gBI") > > Im gonna show you the state of the game during HoT era. > Less Dmg , More Movement, Longer Sustain, Longer Fight = More FUN > > This is what I want. you can even burst zerg/blob with small number. > At the current state you completely cant no matter how good you are, you cant 15 vs 30-40 (if those 30 are not completely braindead), just believe me. i have played this game since 2013. we were those zerg busters. =p ppl must adapt. also that applies then too. you cant zerg bust in hot eara with less than 20 unless the team you fight are bad. good players will always give you trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewfield.7802 Posted August 1, 2019 Author Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just some lucky fights we got. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is so because we are not many. if u got nos. you got a lot of advantage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM](https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM "https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM") and this is what im talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > well, nos. equal damage. and surprise attacks kill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you want a counter to your scourge problem. just have a group with fb rev scrappers in it with its own scourge scourge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you got 35 to 70, then fight someone without having to use veil or invis. it will not be a quick one unless you fight enemies with less experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > w/c server are you? > > > > > > > > > > > > The original point is overall dmg is too high and fights were ended too fast. that's why i made this post. > > > > > > > > > > > > And I am on WSR the most 2nd stacked server on EU. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > well your problem isnt damage. you just got numbers. :/ before shades were really op, now its so easy to avoid. > > > > > > > > > > everything has been nerfed u know > > > > > > > > > > also there are some talented players in wsr, some players transfered there last year, dunno now. > > > > > > > > But you know Anet cant control the number of ppl right so they need to fix the number of dmg instead. > > > > > > meh, no. in that instance my small team cant fight 2 to 3 our numbers if we cant kill them. ppl just need to get good. theres a lot of ways to counter a blob. > > > > [https://youtu.be/2ftinbj1gBI](https://youtu.be/2ftinbj1gBI "https://youtu.be/2ftinbj1gBI") > > > > Im gonna show you the state of the game during HoT era. > > Less Dmg , More Movement, Longer Sustain, Longer Fight = More FUN > > > > This is what I want. you can even burst zerg/blob with small number. > > At the current state you completely cant no matter how good you are, you cant 15 vs 30-40 (if those 30 are not completely braindead), just believe me. > > i have played this game since 2013. we were those zerg busters. =p ppl must adapt. > > also that applies then too. you cant zerg bust in hot eara with less than 20 unless the team you fight are bad. > > good players will always give you trouble. Once i am home, i will fine a vid with less than 20 ppl for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just some lucky fights we got. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is so because we are not many. if u got nos. you got a lot of advantage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM](https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM "https://youtu.be/2_KnE70yHJM") and this is what im talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > well, nos. equal damage. and surprise attacks kill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you want a counter to your scourge problem. just have a group with fb rev scrappers in it with its own scourge scourge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you got 35 to 70, then fight someone without having to use veil or invis. it will not be a quick one unless you fight enemies with less experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > w/c server are you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The original point is overall dmg is too high and fights were ended too fast. that's why i made this post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I am on WSR the most 2nd stacked server on EU. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > well your problem isnt damage. you just got numbers. :/ before shades were really op, now its so easy to avoid. > > > > > > > > > > > > everything has been nerfed u know > > > > > > > > > > > > also there are some talented players in wsr, some players transfered there last year, dunno now. > > > > > > > > > > But you know Anet cant control the number of ppl right so they need to fix the number of dmg instead. > > > > > > > > meh, no. in that instance my small team cant fight 2 to 3 our numbers if we cant kill them. ppl just need to get good. theres a lot of ways to counter a blob. > > > > > > [https://youtu.be/2ftinbj1gBI](https://youtu.be/2ftinbj1gBI "https://youtu.be/2ftinbj1gBI") > > > > > > Im gonna show you the state of the game during HoT era. > > > Less Dmg , More Movement, Longer Sustain, Longer Fight = More FUN > > > > > > This is what I want. you can even burst zerg/blob with small number. > > > At the current state you completely cant no matter how good you are, you cant 15 vs 30-40 (if those 30 are not completely braindead), just believe me. > > > > i have played this game since 2013. we were those zerg busters. =p ppl must adapt. > > > > also that applies then too. you cant zerg bust in hot eara with less than 20 unless the team you fight are bad. > > > > good players will always give you trouble. > > Once i am home, i will fine a vid with less than 20 ppl for you. look for groups of 10 to 15. it should be similar since pre hot till now. i know it is possible if fighting bad players using random builds. fighting good players should do it on equal nos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > @"bluberblasen.9684" said: > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > > One more thing, Elementalist range damage is a bit too high and fatal. > > > > > > > > > > > > What!!! > > > > You mean FA scepter that dies to ambient creature farts or ....? > > > > > > I mean Staff weaver with Meteor > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Meteor_Shower > > that op skill. > > instant cast time and 5 second recharge!!! > > 1900 range like ranger!!!!! > > nerf fast please!!!! > > Actually i would particularly aim at Hammer rev cuz it's more spammable than Meteor BUT you pointed out the ele issue. Ele dmg is dangerous but also take some skills to survive and cast it with proper timing and position, so it's fine i guess. Meteor shower kills the caster from retal before anyone else. And if the ele is pumping out big numbers, well any auto attack would probably down him. Edit... your words confusious me. Pretty much said the same thing you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 mmm... maybe should do a fb rev run sometime. it eats scourge easy. just 1 boon heal fb and all zerk revs. guess those fighting the blob of wsr should consider it too. it would be fun. the amount of hammer 4 2 3 and running away. on that note may as well add one scrapper fb scrap rev rev rev. scrap for super speed. and hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > > How hard do we really need to curbstomp staff ele? > > > > > > Whats next? Nerf fireball so it only hits 1 target? Remove the evade off Burning Retreat? > > > > > > > > > > just tear down a bit of meteor dmg is enough. > > > > > > > > I play a glass cannon hammer rev and meteors from a glass ele hit me for like 8-10k. What I have learned may shock you / 99% of people wont believe how easy this trick is ! > > > > > > > > >! Don't stand in meteor shower. > > > > > > As i replyed to others, Meteor is more acceptable cuz it takes skill to cast and place properly but Hammer Rev is spammable and even braindead players can spam 8k-10k dmg for the whole fight. > > > > Really? Cool I would like to see a vid of a hammer rev spamming 8-10k damage strikes for a minute straight. > > This is the most updated and This number is as most close as i could find atm. But this one is a veteran player. > > [https://youtu.be/9DUkJW_lSj4](https://youtu.be/9DUkJW_lSj4 "https://youtu.be/9DUkJW_lSj4") So... 3-6k damage spam and the occasional over 10k damage on downed players, from a veteran, in a montage. I guess there is no problem after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 nerfing damage only helps the zerg. a small group of tanky players cant kill a bigger group of tanky players. but a small group of damage will have a chance to beat a small group or large group of tanky/hybrid or damage players. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > nerfing damage only helps the zerg. > > a small group of tanky players cant kill a bigger group of tanky players. but a small group of damage will have a chance to beat a small group or large group of tanky/hybrid or damage players. > > :/ > > Yep, zerging is, death by a thousand cuts. Every one that plays hammer rev or staff ele could just roll a scourge if they wanted to and nothing would change. All the staff ele probably did reroll scourge and were like "wow, double the health bar and I can do something useful like corrupt boons too!". These people that die to big glass cannon damage come to the forum to complain about dying to glass canon damage but in reality they were probably already dead due to being out of position and/or they already lost the fight but just didn't realize it rofl. The OP seems to be the guy who plays a glass cannon and complains because everyone dies too easy but hasn't accepted that the reason he can do damage is because he is probably sitting behind a competent wall of firebrands and scourges and fighting pug zergs. and lol, he links vids showing zergs clashing in melee range but complains that its all range damage fighting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeyspit.3965 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"fewfield.7802" said: > Fights were a lot more fun when Melee train was meta. Now It's all about range. When Melee train was meta, did it include the current version of Spellbreaker and Berserker? Asking for a friend. I mean, if you think dodging out of shades and CoR is mind numbing, how would dodging out of winds and arc divider all of a sudden be engaging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L A T I O N.8923 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > One more thing, Elementalist range damage is a bit too high and fatal. > > > What!!! > You mean FA scepter that dies to ambient creature farts or ....? You mean that thing with 8k instacast, direct casts and delayed damage skills and you die instantly See hoe IT goes Both ways? Not dying instantly might be healthy for Both parties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulzi.8273 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Elementalists are in a wierd spot right now. Anet does not have a clue what to do with them. the premise originally was to make them low-survivability but high damage. Now they nerf the dmg, did not alter their survivability and as a double whammy boosted other classes damage. not to mention retal is outrageous in wvw. before they nerf damage however, they really need to get rid of the down-state in wvw. That alone will help small groups against zergs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewfield.7802 Posted August 1, 2019 Author Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"Justine.6351" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > nerfing damage only helps the zerg. > > > > a small group of tanky players cant kill a bigger group of tanky players. but a small group of damage will have a chance to beat a small group or large group of tanky/hybrid or damage players. > > > > :/ > > > > > > Yep, > zerging is, death by a thousand cuts. > > Every one that plays hammer rev or staff ele could just roll a scourge if they wanted to and nothing would change. All the staff ele probably did reroll scourge and were like "wow, double the health bar and I can do something useful like corrupt boons too!". > > These people that die to big glass cannon damage come to the forum to complain about dying to glass canon damage but in reality they were probably already dead due to being out of position and/or they already lost the fight but just didn't realize it rofl. > > The OP seems to be the guy who plays a glass cannon and complains because everyone dies too easy but hasn't accepted that the reason he can do damage is because he is probably sitting behind a competent wall of firebrands and scourges and fighting pug zergs. > > and lol, he links vids showing zergs clashing in melee range but complains that its all range damage fighting... I complant about 2 topics. 1. Scourge shade which does 2 bomb zones (Self bomb + Range bomb) makes gameplay cancer. 2. Rev/Ele range is too high. Maybe you are playing on a newbie server and never face a hard fight which 2 grps both are well organized. In the case of organized grps ppl will stack revs and spam hammer at 1200 then fight become pirateship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewfield.7802 Posted August 1, 2019 Author Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > Fights were a lot more fun when Melee train was meta. Now It's all about range. > > When Melee train was meta, did it include the current version of Spellbreaker and Berserker? Asking for a friend. > > I mean, if you think dodging out of shades and CoR is mind numbing, how would dodging out of winds and arc divider all of a sudden be engaging? Winds does nothing without Follow up bomb and the cd is quite different from CoR and Shade which are more spammable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subversiontwo.7501 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > Fights were a lot more fun when Melee train was meta. Now It's all about range. > > When Melee train was meta, did it include the current version of Spellbreaker and Berserker? Asking for a friend. > > I mean, if you think dodging out of shades and CoR is mind numbing, how would dodging out of winds and arc divider all of a sudden be engaging? **That's easy to answer:** They are melee skills. There will still be ranged skills even if they do not completely dominate the field. There has always been an opportunity to play ranged in a melee meta. There has never been the same kind of opportunity to play melee in a ranged meta. I've mentioned it before a couple of times. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's entirely impossible to comp melee in a ranged meta but the barrier of entry is so much higher than the opposite. Ranged metas have always been more exclusive to players and classes than melee metas, by far. They have always been more detrimental to the game mode, by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subversiontwo.7501 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > nerfing damage only helps the zerg. > > a small group of tanky players cant kill a bigger group of tanky players. but a small group of damage will have a chance to beat a small group or large group of tanky/hybrid or damage players. > **Let me continue that rant by qouting Sov:** In my experience it has been the complete opposite. It is easier for a smaller group to thrive against a larger group in a tanky meta (and a melee one) because the things that separates players of different experience levels (both in terms of "skill" and organisation) are easier to work around in lower impact, reach- and spread metas. A higher tank means you need to focus your damage more. That favours a better organised group. A melee meta can be countered in more ways, for example, things like kiting/clouding counters requires a higher degree of self-reliance. Then there is also perhaps the most important bit here given the balance of the game: People always neglect the value of underdimensioned counter play. I remember illustrating it with the example of heals before. Back in vanilla healing was far more rare but the fact that it was rare and made most run-of-the-mill underutilizing it made sure that players or groups that dedicated into it (even if the scaling for it wasn't there) had heals when the other groups did not. It was a powerful tool to potentially use. The balance of damage to damage reduction has a similar relationship: Dmg% outscales DR% so much now that it is very difficult to comp surprisingly around sustain. It is much more difficult for a relatively "good" player to build in the opposite and utilizing that. Whereas in tanky metas you have a better relationship between tank and perceived ability. Good groups drop defenses in order to gain advantages in offenses. It ties into the first point made. If the opposing ball doesn't just spam 1200r oneshots around itself it's easier to bet on your ability to avoid slightly more damage than your opponent and building that into slight damage advantages that you can use to further nudge up your edge in applying that damage (through better focus and timing). That's why, for example, in the height of the HoT melee ball meta in 2016, the best guilds ran full souped up glass counters and prevailed. The basic "meta" may have been fairly similar to now, but the super-meta, seen for example in GvG tournaments, was all about different counters to it. If you compare the 2016 GvG tournament to the 2019 one, most guilds in 2016 played not only different comps but different concepts alltogether and those evolved as the tournament went on. The 2019 EU tournament was all stale with everyone virtually playing the same way with little to no evolution between group stages and play off. The ludicrous condi-ship meta that followed leading up to PoF and the first few months of PoF just had no balance and thus no available counter play. That is still what we see dominating the playing field. Since, some opportunity for certain counter play has opened up (WoD and Shade nerfs, however miss-implemented) but the envelope is still very narrow and, as mentioned, has so much more of a barrier of entry that as a whole the meta remains exclusive and thus more destructive. I believe, of all the posts in this thread, Voltekka was early on onto an aspect of that discussion. Ranged high damage metas make casual followers feel empowered and happy. People are getting bags and it is nice to just login, find a tag and go farm some bags. The problem with such an approach to balance is that it is slowly suffocating the mode from within and people will not react to that until it hits critical mass. The game mode is limping on with lower rebirth and fewer commanders and the problem with that will not be seen until there are so few players left looking to be constructive that there will not be enough tags left to follow for anyone. The bag farmers will stop comming and the mode will devolve back into an first-months vanilla small scale FFA with whatever remains, some sort of primordial soup. It is not impossible that will see a rebuild into new communities from that but it is certainly not worth it to lose all the structure, communities and player activity that has built up over time especially since the rebirth is so much lower now than it was back at what was essentially launch and the balance will remain so much worse. Now, my argument here is not that it is wrong to cater to new players. My argument is that it is wrong to build around an expectation that players should come in and consume the content of agents instead encouraging agency. The game mode does not need new players, it needs new players that do stuff. It has no interest of players who come to join stuff if there is nothing to join. If we build the mode around players to be fed they will be hungry if there is no one to feed them. Even if they could scrape by with the food that remains, the crumbs off the Arena Net table, they need to be encouraged to feed themselves. That implies grouping up, guilding up and tagging up. The hidden tag thing is the same kind of reverse logic (or counter-result to what is first seen as positive in bringing players in and including them). The hidden tag is good for the game because it encourages agency and makes people who do try to group up, guild up and tag up to create content happy. New and casual players can be (expected to be-) that too and not just content consumers expecting to be fed. In fact, one of the most challenging things about attempting to do something right now is that it is difficult to find players to help you because they all just expect to be fed. I'm actively trying to group with people but I'm having trouble finding players who want to do such basic things as joining a party, a guild and using a microphone to talk and socialize. Similarily, I often find myself in 50-man squads where the commander often wonders why s/he has a monologue, where there's maybe 5/50 players talking at all over 2-3 hours and where 75% of whoever joins the voice coms have their mics turned off. That behaviour is new to this game mode. I've not seen it at all before 2018/2019. We've seen squads being more and more diverse of guild tags (ie., fewer and fewer players from the same guilds playing together in pickups) over a long time but the whole awkward silence thing is new to me. That's not being new, casual or included to me, that's being a leech and antisocial in a social online game and game mode that is mostly about player-created content, inclusion should be inclusion in content generation. We see that behaviour because that is the behaviour the current direction of balance and developer content attention encourages. That has to change. Hopefully it does with August 30, Alliances and hidden tags. Those things at least has some promise to that effect and back towards that direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"L A T I O N.8923" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > > One more thing, Elementalist range damage is a bit too high and fatal. > > > > > > What!!! > > You mean FA scepter that dies to ambient creature farts or ....? > > You mean that thing with 8k instacast, direct casts and delayed damage skills and you die instantly > > See hoe IT goes Both ways? > Not dying instantly might be healthy for Both parties Dodge and look at them, they'll die from that. Better yet, just spam space bar and laugh as you ride off into the distance knowing the ele never had a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coro.3176 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Big picture problems with GW2's combat system in WvW large scale fights: * **Some attacks can be completely mitigated by some defence** (eg. projectiles. It only takes 1 player using a reflect to nullify all enemies' projectiles for ~5s at a time on a fairly short. Thus, projectiles can be made 0% effective with 4 or 5 players' coordinated reflect bubbles/walls. * **Other attacks cannot be mitigated this way** (Meteors, CoR, Scourge aoes). These end up being preferred because the only way to avoid them is to move, dodge, or blow a hard invuln, and these defences are very limited and must be done by **each** member of the enemy squad in order to avoid the attack, compared with just 1 player using a reflect, for example. * **# of targets is king**. If you hit 5 targets with an attack, you are almost always doing at least 3x the damage you would be had you used a single-target attack. With Scourge's ability to hit 10 targets with its aoes, that only reinforces its position as the most desired dps. Attacks that only hit 1 target are very inefficient in a large fight with the possible exception of moa-ing the enemy commander. * **CC is ineffective** because stability is plentiful. Support classes can keep very high stability uptime, so CC-ing the enemy is unreliable. * **Boons and corruption are out of control**. Boon corruption -> Cleanse to boon -> repeat cycle is insane. The amount of corruption and cleanse is absolutely crazy. It's a frantic struggle to corrupt protection and stability so that CC will actually work and damage will go through. It all needs to be toned down. Scrapper can cleanse something like .. 50+ conditions from **each** of 5 allies in a 20s interval and convert them to boons. So you end up with "the meta" for fights: * a guardian for stab/heal/support * a scrapper for cleanse + conversion * 2-3 scourges for damage + corruption * 0-1 revs for ranged bombs * ^ copy/paste the above for each party of 5 players in the squad * and maybe a warrior here and there for banner or winds.., This is missing vast vast portions of GW2's combat system including but not limited to: * projectiles * condition damage (there are conditions in the current meta, but they are mostly a result of corruption and rarely last more than a second) * melee damage (there is "melee", but in the form of pbaoe on scourge.. People aren't really swinging swords) * skirmishing at the edges of combat (eg. thieves + rangers trying to snipe backliners) * CC, landing stuns, and dazes, dropping lines in the middle of blobs to split them up, stuff like that. I dunno. Personally I'm pretty bored of what we've had for so long. It's not the worst meta, but it's not very interesting when it all revolves around scourge puddles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"fewfield.7802" said: > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > How hard do we really need to curbstomp staff ele? > > Whats next? Nerf fireball so it only hits 1 target? Remove the evade off Burning Retreat? > > just tear down a bit of meteor dmg is enough. just dont stand in the MASSIVE Aoe Field that you can see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 I don't have a problem with elemental staff damage since everything about it screams slow with long cooldowns, Rev hammer on the other hand has been a giant offender to that since day one of it's inception. Game shouldn't be about one skill basically one shotting multiple people at once, it should be coordinated bombing with multiple skills at once to drop multiple people. Like the old meteor and well bombs, and somewhat like the current rev cor bombs except that went overboard, but of course part of that is because of the all the defensive kitten they added. It's also bs for auto attacks doing huge damage even more than other cooldown abilities, cooldowns are suppose to be part of the balance for more power, which is why meteor every 24-30s hitting for 10-12k is fine, even necro wells back in the day had long cooldowns, but a skill hitting for 12-15k every 4s was dumb as hell. Anet can't even figure out their own balancing philosophies at this point. If anything it looks like meteors could use a cooldown reduction. Everything on both sides need a reduction, but it ain't gonna happen, ain't nobody got time for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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