Death mechanic 2.0?

[Kikokuma.9405]

I've been thinking a lot about how this game can be improved mechanic wise. Been playing GW1 a fair bit again and to be honest that game just has so much more depth mechanically it makes GW2 look like it is for toddlers. So i've been thinking about downed state and death state and how dying has absolutely no consequence in GW2, and how can we change that?

 

Recently while playing GW2 i've been introduced to the Armistice Bastion Pass. That started the gears... i don't know how many of you have been there but when you are there you have a skill that is marked as "Mist-step travel skills" which lets you travel to any major city in central Tyria or return to your previous location. (remember this mist step skill because it is a major part of my idea)

 

Moving on... dying... consequence... what if dying had consequence? What if when you went down you went down and could fight like you do... yes.... maybe even make you tougher... but what if when you died, like died died... then you traveled to a special map in the mists? A large map filled with everyone else that was dead at the time? You could choose to return right away using that mist-step skill if you wanted... sure. But... what is the point in staying? What is the point in this map you say?... Well... What if instead of returning right away, this map also had things to do? Ghost merchants to take care of your inventory, maybe a bank, more special merchants with unique items? How about special mobs that buff you with + all attributes for 60 mins after killing them? +2 attributes per kill, so if you want, stay and farm the buff for a little so when you go back you will have a nice buff for an hour. Bring back theses guys and stick them in there: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mist_Vaettir

Or make them really hard mobs and up the attribute gain to +10 or something. I dunno... something for the balance team to figure out.

 

There is just so much depth missing from this game that GW1 is so abundant in... and i really wish the GW2 dev team after 7 years could finally bring some depth to this game...

[Mewcifer.5198]

No thanks.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

So, would players be throwing themselves off cliffs in hordes?

[Manasa Devi.7958]

Reward people for dying? No thanks.

[Kikokuma.9405]

> @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> Reward people for dying? No thanks.

 

If mobs drop nothing and only give you the buff, they take time away from actually doing things that would be rewarding. That way only people that would need the buff would do it. i.e. raid groups or fractal groups etc... The buff would not cross over to PvP or WvW. And would max out at +100.

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > Reward people for dying? No thanks.

>

> If mobs drop nothing and only give you the buff, they take time away from actually doing things that would be rewarding. That way only people that would need the buff would do it. i.e. raid groups or fractal groups etc... The buff would not cross over to PvP or WvW. And would max out at +100.

You'd still reward them for dying by making them stronger, which in turn would lead people to include dying into their routine, if only to feel stronger afterwards. Effectively it wouldn't change much other than putting some busywork in for those that feel the need to min-max their strength.

 

There are enough ways for players to get their characters killed on purpose (fall damage being among the first to come to mind). Giving boons/bonusses for dying (even if optional and involving another action only available in that situation) sounds just as bad as the death penalties GW1 had.

[kratan.4619]

The people cried about having to pay a couple silver for repairs, I doubt anyone would go for adding more death penalty. The only thing death does now is maybe make you run back to where you were from the waypoint.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

> @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > Reward people for dying? No thanks.

>

> If mobs drop nothing and only give you the buff, they take time away from actually doing things that would be rewarding. That way only people that would need the buff would do it. i.e. raid groups or fractal groups etc... The buff would not cross over to PvP or WvW. And would max out at +100.

I wasn't just thinking of the buff, but also "_Ghost merchants to take care of your inventory, maybe a bank, more special merchants with unique items?_"

[Udolpho.1209]

That's... kind of a hilarious & crazy suggestion, but I kind of like it... maybe?

 

Can the ghost world be old lion's arch, but ghostlier, and everyone who's dead have the strawberry ghost visual effect for as long as they stay? Maybe people will just stay indefinitely. Sounds fun for roleplay, at least.

 

How about being able to travel through various planes of existence and afterlives based on in-game religions... various heavens, purgatories, levels of hell, whatever.

 

Totally not practical at all as far as in-game dying. Maybe you can click a reincarnation button so you can skip the whole thing. XD

[Kikokuma.9405]

> @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> > @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > > Reward people for dying? No thanks.

> >

> > If mobs drop nothing and only give you the buff, they take time away from actually doing things that would be rewarding. That way only people that would need the buff would do it. i.e. raid groups or fractal groups etc... The buff would not cross over to PvP or WvW. And would max out at +100.

> You'd still reward them for dying by making them stronger, which in turn would lead people to include dying into their routine, if only to feel stronger afterwards. Effectively it wouldn't change much other than putting some busywork in for those that feel the need to min-max their strength.

>

> There are enough ways for players to get their characters killed on purpose (fall damage being among the first to come to mind). Giving boons/bonusses for dying (even if optional and involving another action only available in that situation) sounds just as bad as the death penalties GW1 had.

 

I feel like yer missing the point... it's only busywork if it's not needed. If you really do need those extra stats than it is actually rewarding going there and not busywork... if you don't need the stats and are just running around PvEing... then why are you there? lol

[Kikokuma.9405]

> @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > > Reward people for dying? No thanks.

> >

> > If mobs drop nothing and only give you the buff, they take time away from actually doing things that would be rewarding. That way only people that would need the buff would do it. i.e. raid groups or fractal groups etc... The buff would not cross over to PvP or WvW. And would max out at +100.

> I wasn't just thinking of the buff, but also "_Ghost merchants to take care of your inventory, maybe a bank, more special merchants with unique items?_"

 

i don't see how that is any different than any other map. Every map has merchants you can WP to. You can easily just WP to a bank at anytime... dying would also dmg your gear just to go to a merchant and bank. Soooo..... how is that different?

[maddoctor.2738]

How did you come to this idea after playing GW1 I wonder...

[Manasa Devi.7958]

> @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > > @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > > > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > > > Reward people for dying? No thanks.

> > >

> > > If mobs drop nothing and only give you the buff, they take time away from actually doing things that would be rewarding. That way only people that would need the buff would do it. i.e. raid groups or fractal groups etc... The buff would not cross over to PvP or WvW. And would max out at +100.

> > I wasn't just thinking of the buff, but also "_Ghost merchants to take care of your inventory, maybe a bank, more special merchants with unique items?_"

>

> i don't see how that is any different than any other map. Every map has merchants you can WP to. You can easily just WP to a bank at anytime... dying would also dmg your gear just to go to a merchant and bank. Soooo..... how is that different?

Your mist-step skill to immediately go back to where you died would change dying into a free lounge.

[Kikokuma.9405]

> @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > > > @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > > > > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > > > > Reward people for dying? No thanks.

> > > >

> > > > If mobs drop nothing and only give you the buff, they take time away from actually doing things that would be rewarding. That way only people that would need the buff would do it. i.e. raid groups or fractal groups etc... The buff would not cross over to PvP or WvW. And would max out at +100.

> > > I wasn't just thinking of the buff, but also "_Ghost merchants to take care of your inventory, maybe a bank, more special merchants with unique items?_"

> >

> > i don't see how that is any different than any other map. Every map has merchants you can WP to. You can easily just WP to a bank at anytime... dying would also dmg your gear just to go to a merchant and bank. Soooo..... how is that different?

> Your mist-step skill to immediately go back to where you died would change dying into a free lounge.

 

That would have to change from "previous location" to "nearest WP" or something like that as in it's current form it's only used when you are currently alive.

[Kikokuma.9405]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> How did you come to this idea after playing GW1 I wonder...

 

Just looking at how much more in depth the mechanics work in GW1 and comparing it to GW2. GW2 is very shallow and i just started thinking a lot about what could possibly be different... what could change to add more depth and variety?

[Antycypator.9874]

I think your idea could work, but in other way. If your character die and stay dead for too long, it could be taken to the "mists". This should be a punishment for those lazy players who stay dead at meta events and don't want to WP. But with no rewards.

Of course this should be disabled in instanced group content like raids, fractals and dungeons.

 

In lore, our characters don't die. They're unconscious. Game doesn't tell you "you died", only "You're defeated". So, in that way, it should take you to a hospital instead of the mists or underworld.

[Kikokuma.9405]

> @"Antycypator.9874" said:

> I think your idea could work, but in other way. If your character die and stay dead for too long, it could be taken to the "mists". This should be a punishment for those lazy players who stay dead at meta events and don't want to WP. But with no rewards.

> Of course this should be disabled in instanced group content like raids, fractals and dungeons.

>

> In lore, our characters don't die. They're unconscious. Game doesn't tell you "you died", only "You're defeated". So, in that way, it should take you to a hospital instead of the mists or underworld.

 

Well... if lore is going to be brought in. I thought it would be a really cool idea to bring Dhuum back. He never died, he's just been sealed away, and with all the gods peaceing out, maybe it's time for him to kinda come out and wreck some havoc? Nothing major but this could be one of the things he does? Steals the fallen bodies on the battlefields and takes them to the underworld? Wouldn't that be awesome?

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> but what if when you died, like died died... then you traveled to a special map in the mists?

 

Thanks but no thanks. **Anything which adds loading screens is a big nono in my eyes.** Even worse for content which is actually challenging and might lead to multiple consecutive deaths in say raids or fractals. For anything else like open world, dying there is already punishing enough in that it tells you:"you died to some of the easiest more fool proof content in any MMORPG there is" and does not require any buffs for players.

[Kikokuma.9405]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > but what if when you died, like died died... then you traveled to a special map in the mists?

>

> Thanks but no thanks. **Anything which adds loading screens is a big nono in my eyes.** Even worse for content which is actually challenging and might lead to multiple consecutive deaths in say raids or fractals. For anything else like open world, dying there is already punishing enough in that it tells you:"you died to some of the easiest more fool proof content in any MMORPG there is" and does not require any buffs for players.

 

I can totally agree with loading screens... but in this case this game is in dire need of depth. And atleast for me this game depth > loading screens. You seem to have a differing opinion which is fine, and good for devs to know. And loading screens can always be negated somewhat with an SSD and optimization. HOW A GAME IN 2019 IS STILL RUNNING ON DX9 IS BEYOND ME!!!! Erm... but that is a whole other topic...

[Rauderi.8706]

Increasing the penalty of death doesn't make combat more engaging.

Hard pass on this Dark Souls knockoff idea.

[Mewcifer.5198]

> @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > @"Antycypator.9874" said:

> > I think your idea could work, but in other way. If your character die and stay dead for too long, it could be taken to the "mists". This should be a punishment for those lazy players who stay dead at meta events and don't want to WP. But with no rewards.

> > Of course this should be disabled in instanced group content like raids, fractals and dungeons.

> >

> > In lore, our characters don't die. They're unconscious. Game doesn't tell you "you died", only "You're defeated". So, in that way, it should take you to a hospital instead of the mists or underworld.

>

> Well... if lore is going to be brought in. I thought it would be a really cool idea to bring Dhuum back. He never died, he's just been sealed away, and with all the gods peaceing out, maybe it's time for him to kinda come out and wreck some havoc? Nothing major but this could be one of the things he does? Steals the fallen bodies on the battlefields and takes them to the underworld? Wouldn't that be awesome?

 

Dhuum is already handled lore-wise in gw2.

[Kikokuma.9405]

> @"Rauderi.8706" said:

> Increasing the penalty of death doesn't make combat more engaging.

> Hard pass on this Dark Souls knockoff idea.

 

A. Yes it does... cuz it adds stakes to combat and makes it more intense.

B. That doesn't matter anyways cuz it's not about adding a penalty, it's about adding meaning, engagment. Currently nothing happens when you die... you lay there, look around real quick to see if anyone is around to rez you, and if not you WP for a pocket lints worth of gold and go on yer way. This would actually add a layer of depth, engagement, it would make the would feel like it's more of a real world. It would give people more options, give the really hardcore players extra stats, and even give new players that are falling behind on gear for some reason an extra boost if they need it.

[Kikokuma.9405]

> @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > > @"Antycypator.9874" said:

> > > I think your idea could work, but in other way. If your character die and stay dead for too long, it could be taken to the "mists". This should be a punishment for those lazy players who stay dead at meta events and don't want to WP. But with no rewards.

> > > Of course this should be disabled in instanced group content like raids, fractals and dungeons.

> > >

> > > In lore, our characters don't die. They're unconscious. Game doesn't tell you "you died", only "You're defeated". So, in that way, it should take you to a hospital instead of the mists or underworld.

> >

> > Well... if lore is going to be brought in. I thought it would be a really cool idea to bring Dhuum back. He never died, he's just been sealed away, and with all the gods peaceing out, maybe it's time for him to kinda come out and wreck some havoc? Nothing major but this could be one of the things he does? Steals the fallen bodies on the battlefields and takes them to the underworld? Wouldn't that be awesome?

>

> Dhuum is already handled lore-wise in gw2.

 

Oh balls... i don't remember that. =/

[Mewcifer.5198]

> @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > > @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > > > @"Antycypator.9874" said:

> > > > I think your idea could work, but in other way. If your character die and stay dead for too long, it could be taken to the "mists". This should be a punishment for those lazy players who stay dead at meta events and don't want to WP. But with no rewards.

> > > > Of course this should be disabled in instanced group content like raids, fractals and dungeons.

> > > >

> > > > In lore, our characters don't die. They're unconscious. Game doesn't tell you "you died", only "You're defeated". So, in that way, it should take you to a hospital instead of the mists or underworld.

> > >

> > > Well... if lore is going to be brought in. I thought it would be a really cool idea to bring Dhuum back. He never died, he's just been sealed away, and with all the gods peaceing out, maybe it's time for him to kinda come out and wreck some havoc? Nothing major but this could be one of the things he does? Steals the fallen bodies on the battlefields and takes them to the underworld? Wouldn't that be awesome?

> >

> > Dhuum is already handled lore-wise in gw2.

>

> Oh balls... i don't remember that. =/

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hall_of_Chains

[Luthan.5236]

Just a few weeks been discussed in another thread. And death mechanics in GW1 are horrible - and annoying ... easier to make people stop playing. GW2 is just fine for a MMORPG. (While GW1 felt more like a solo rpg you also can play multiplayer with others.)

 

So ... instead of horrible game design (punishing players for playing and trying to make them stop) I prefer great game design - minor disadvantages for death but not that much to turn the whole game into a grind (constantly losing hours of time) and driving away players. Yes GW1s mechanics seem like horrible game design to me.