Death mechanic 2.0?

[Kikokuma.9405]

> @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > > > @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > > > > @"Antycypator.9874" said:

> > > > > I think your idea could work, but in other way. If your character die and stay dead for too long, it could be taken to the "mists". This should be a punishment for those lazy players who stay dead at meta events and don't want to WP. But with no rewards.

> > > > > Of course this should be disabled in instanced group content like raids, fractals and dungeons.

> > > > >

> > > > > In lore, our characters don't die. They're unconscious. Game doesn't tell you "you died", only "You're defeated". So, in that way, it should take you to a hospital instead of the mists or underworld.

> > > >

> > > > Well... if lore is going to be brought in. I thought it would be a really cool idea to bring Dhuum back. He never died, he's just been sealed away, and with all the gods peaceing out, maybe it's time for him to kinda come out and wreck some havoc? Nothing major but this could be one of the things he does? Steals the fallen bodies on the battlefields and takes them to the underworld? Wouldn't that be awesome?

> > >

> > > Dhuum is already handled lore-wise in gw2.

> >

> > Oh balls... i don't remember that. =/

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hall_of_Chains

 

oh ok yeah, this was the same thing i read already... so he totally can come back again. He is just sealed away again. And like i said with the gods peaceing out he may find it an opportune time to come back. This raid was released awhile ago too... "November 28th, 2017" and by the time anything from this thread gets implemented if it ever does... would be plenty of time in between.

[Kikokuma.9405]

> @"Luthan.5236" said:

> Just a few weeks been discussed in another thread. And death mechanics in GW1 are horrible - and annoying ... easier to make people stop playing. GW2 is just fine for a MMORPG. (While GW1 felt more like a solo rpg you also can play multiplayer with others.)

>

> So ... instead of horrible game design (punishing players for playing and trying to make them stop) I prefer great game design - minor disadvantages for death but not that much to turn the whole game into a grind (constantly losing hours of time) and driving away players. Yes GW1s mechanics seem like horrible game design to me.

 

I don't think you actually read anything... cuz this doesn't have anything to do with the death mechanics of GW1...

[Mewcifer.5198]

> @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > > @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > > > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > > > > @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > > > > > @"Antycypator.9874" said:

> > > > > > I think your idea could work, but in other way. If your character die and stay dead for too long, it could be taken to the "mists". This should be a punishment for those lazy players who stay dead at meta events and don't want to WP. But with no rewards.

> > > > > > Of course this should be disabled in instanced group content like raids, fractals and dungeons.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In lore, our characters don't die. They're unconscious. Game doesn't tell you "you died", only "You're defeated". So, in that way, it should take you to a hospital instead of the mists or underworld.

> > > > >

> > > > > Well... if lore is going to be brought in. I thought it would be a really cool idea to bring Dhuum back. He never died, he's just been sealed away, and with all the gods peaceing out, maybe it's time for him to kinda come out and wreck some havoc? Nothing major but this could be one of the things he does? Steals the fallen bodies on the battlefields and takes them to the underworld? Wouldn't that be awesome?

> > > >

> > > > Dhuum is already handled lore-wise in gw2.

> > >

> > > Oh balls... i don't remember that. =/

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hall_of_Chains

>

> oh ok yeah, this was the same thing i read already... so he totally can come back again. He is just sealed away again. And like i said with the gods peaceing out he may find it an opportune time to come back. This raid was released awhile ago too... "November 28th, 2017" and by the time anything from this thread gets implemented if it ever does... would be plenty of time in between.

 

Nah, he has been resealed and can be resealed again and again and again since it isn't like people can't just keep going back and resealing him. Some people do it every week.

Lore wise he doesn't allow resurrection, so if he got 100% free necromancers wouldn't be a thing anymore. If Dhuum got his hands on a soul they would not come back to life, so that would mean that players don't get to come back if they die.

Gameplay wise nothing you suggested sounds like it would benefit the game at all. Other people have been pretty good about explaining why. There is no need to drag poor Dhuum into this idea.

[Kikokuma.9405]

> @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > > > @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > > > > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > > > > > @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > > > > > > @"Antycypator.9874" said:

> > > > > > > I think your idea could work, but in other way. If your character die and stay dead for too long, it could be taken to the "mists". This should be a punishment for those lazy players who stay dead at meta events and don't want to WP. But with no rewards.

> > > > > > > Of course this should be disabled in instanced group content like raids, fractals and dungeons.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In lore, our characters don't die. They're unconscious. Game doesn't tell you "you died", only "You're defeated". So, in that way, it should take you to a hospital instead of the mists or underworld.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well... if lore is going to be brought in. I thought it would be a really cool idea to bring Dhuum back. He never died, he's just been sealed away, and with all the gods peaceing out, maybe it's time for him to kinda come out and wreck some havoc? Nothing major but this could be one of the things he does? Steals the fallen bodies on the battlefields and takes them to the underworld? Wouldn't that be awesome?

> > > > >

> > > > > Dhuum is already handled lore-wise in gw2.

> > > >

> > > > Oh balls... i don't remember that. =/

> > >

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hall_of_Chains

> >

> > oh ok yeah, this was the same thing i read already... so he totally can come back again. He is just sealed away again. And like i said with the gods peaceing out he may find it an opportune time to come back. This raid was released awhile ago too... "November 28th, 2017" and by the time anything from this thread gets implemented if it ever does... would be plenty of time in between.

>

> Nah, he has been resealed and can be resealed again and again and again since it isn't like people can't just keep going back and resealing him. Some people do it every week.

> Lore wise he doesn't allow resurrection, so if he got 100% free necromancers wouldn't be a thing anymore. If Dhuum got his hands on a soul they would not come back to life, so that would mean that players don't get to come back if they die.

> Gameplay wise nothing you suggested sounds like it would benefit the game at all. Other people have been pretty good about explaining why. There is no need to drag poor Dhuum into this idea.

 

That is fine if you have a different opinion, you can just say so. And if Dhuum doesn't work there are plenty of other ways to get it to work. So no big deal.

[kharmin.7683]

Would rather see Dhuum killing off banned players. That was always entertaining.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

This sounds like a lot of work for little value. It also seems very likely to drive players away from GW2 altogether. No, thanks.

[ROMANG.1903]

> @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> I've been thinking a lot about how this game can be improved mechanic wise. Been playing GW1 a fair bit again and to be honest that game just has so much more depth mechanically it makes GW2 look like it is for toddlers. So i've been thinking about downed state and death state and how dying has absolutely no consequence in GW2, and how can we change that?

>

> Recently while playing GW2 i've been introduced to the Armistice Bastion Pass. That started the gears... i don't know how many of you have been there but when you are there you have a skill that is marked as "Mist-step travel skills" which lets you travel to any major city in central Tyria or return to your previous location. (remember this mist step skill because it is a major part of my idea)

>

> Moving on... dying... consequence... what if dying had consequence? What if when you went down you went down and could fight like you do... yes.... maybe even make you tougher... but what if when you died, like died died... then you traveled to a special map in the mists? A large map filled with everyone else that was dead at the time? You could choose to return right away using that mist-step skill if you wanted... sure. But... what is the point in staying? What is the point in this map you say?... Well... What if instead of returning right away, this map also had things to do? Ghost merchants to take care of your inventory, maybe a bank, more special merchants with unique items? How about special mobs that buff you with + all attributes for 60 mins after killing them? +2 attributes per kill, so if you want, stay and farm the buff for a little so when you go back you will have a nice buff for an hour. Bring back theses guys and stick them in there: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mist_Vaettir

> Or make them really hard mobs and up the attribute gain to +10 or something. I dunno... something for the balance team to figure out.

>

> There is just so much depth missing from this game that GW1 is so abundant in... and i really wish the GW2 dev team after 7 years could finally bring some depth to this game...

 

Forcing people through 2 loading screens on death isn't a good idea. Death shouldn't be rewarding either. Sorry but I'm against it.

[Donari.5237]

You have neglected a key thing that would make this terribly punitive: If people are sent to another map or instance when full dead, they probably can't get back to the same shard they were on since metas fill up maps. Sure they'll pop back where they were -- but not to the same fight. Thus metas will fail as people are siphoned away and unable to return. Combat and metas are designed in the knowledge that killed players can one way or another come back to keep helping. Even the best player will occasionally fall. Losing out on, say, a Dragonstand map completion because of one little error might make people just give up on even starting DS meta.

 

That's on top of the other issues others have pointed out above.

[Pifil.5193]

I fail to see how this is adding "depth" in any way. How is leaving the map on death deeper than not leaving the map? It sounds annoying.

 

Ultimately though as Donari rightfully points out losing your map instance is a major thing you lose out on event progression and rewards if you leave your map. Forcing that on players just to add "depth" sounds like a bad idea.

 

Sometimes mechanics should be streamlined rather than complicated, that's why ArenaNet decided on the death penalties they did.

[Kikokuma.9405]

> @"Donari.5237" said:

> You have neglected a key thing that would make this terribly punitive: If people are sent to another map or instance when full dead, they probably can't get back to the same shard they were on since metas fill up maps. Sure they'll pop back where they were -- but not to the same fight. Thus metas will fail as people are siphoned away and unable to return. Combat and metas are designed in the knowledge that killed players can one way or another come back to keep helping. Even the best player will occasionally fall. Losing out on, say, a Dragonstand map completion because of one little error might make people just give up on even starting DS meta.

>

> That's on top of the other issues others have pointed out above.

 

That is a good point that i did not actually think about. I guess that is what squads are for so you can rejoin the instance again but that is rather very annoying to have to do for a hard meta event.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> I've been thinking a lot about how this game can be improved mechanic wise. Been playing GW1 a fair bit again and to be honest that game just has so much more depth mechanically it makes GW2 look like it is for toddlers. So i've been thinking about downed state and death state and how dying has absolutely no consequence in GW2, and how can we change that?

>

> Recently while playing GW2 i've been introduced to the Armistice Bastion Pass. That started the gears... i don't know how many of you have been there but when you are there you have a skill that is marked as "Mist-step travel skills" which lets you travel to any major city in central Tyria or return to your previous location. (remember this mist step skill because it is a major part of my idea)

>

> Moving on... dying... consequence... what if dying had consequence? What if when you went down you went down and could fight like you do... yes.... maybe even make you tougher... but what if when you died, like died died... then you traveled to a special map in the mists? A large map filled with everyone else that was dead at the time? You could choose to return right away using that mist-step skill if you wanted... sure. But... what is the point in staying? What is the point in this map you say?... Well... What if instead of returning right away, this map also had things to do? Ghost merchants to take care of your inventory, maybe a bank, more special merchants with unique items? How about special mobs that buff you with + all attributes for 60 mins after killing them? +2 attributes per kill, so if you want, stay and farm the buff for a little so when you go back you will have a nice buff for an hour. Bring back theses guys and stick them in there: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mist_Vaettir

> Or make them really hard mobs and up the attribute gain to +10 or something. I dunno... something for the balance team to figure out.

>

> There is just so much depth missing from this game that GW1 is so abundant in... and i really wish the GW2 dev team after 7 years could finally bring some depth to this game...

 

Giving the player access to QoL systems and buffs when they die is not **consequence** it's **reward**.

 

Consequence is resetting the instance (as GW1 did) or XP penalty (which no MMO in the past 5 years has dared to do).

 

[Donari.5237]

> @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > @"Donari.5237" said:

> > You have neglected a key thing that would make this terribly punitive: If people are sent to another map or instance when full dead, they probably can't get back to the same shard they were on since metas fill up maps. Sure they'll pop back where they were -- but not to the same fight. Thus metas will fail as people are siphoned away and unable to return. Combat and metas are designed in the knowledge that killed players can one way or another come back to keep helping. Even the best player will occasionally fall. Losing out on, say, a Dragonstand map completion because of one little error might make people just give up on even starting DS meta.

> >

> > That's on top of the other issues others have pointed out above.

>

> That is a good point that i did not actually think about. I guess that is what squads are for so you can rejoin the instance again but that is rather very annoying to have to do for a hard meta event.

 

Squad or no squad, generally speaking if you dc from a full map you're stuck. This would be the same.

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"Kikokuma.9405" said:

> > @"Rauderi.8706" said:

> > Increasing the penalty of death doesn't make combat more engaging.

> > Hard pass on this Dark Souls knockoff idea.

>

> A. Yes it does... cuz it adds stakes to combat and makes it more intense.

> B. That doesn't matter anyways cuz it's not about adding a penalty, it's about adding meaning, engagment. Currently nothing happens when you die... you lay there, look around real quick to see if anyone is around to rez you, and if not you WP for a pocket lints worth of gold and go on yer way. This would actually add a layer of depth, engagement, it would make the would feel like it's more of a real world. It would give people more options, give the really hardcore players extra stats, and even give new players that are falling behind on gear for some reason an extra boost if they need it.

 

None of that is "engagement." It's "punishment." At least be honest about what you want with this idea. "Stakes" is a result. Which, if you want to lose more from dying, throw your gear away. Be forced to re-make it. Nuzlock/hardcore your character. Send a gold every time you would have to waypoint. None of what you're proposing should be inflicted on a player without the overall theme supporting it, like it does with Dark Souls.