Does anyone feels like necro is super broken?

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> >

> > I've pinpoint the reason we have a different point of view. Where you see the shroud, I see the life force. You differenciate shrouding yourself behind life force and using life force to gain barrier While I don't. I take a shortcut and simply say: "whether it's core, reaper or scourge using your life force to shield yourself is your main defense".

> >

> > And for me that's the source of the problem, as long as the life force is the main source of defense of the necromancer and it's e-specs, there is no possibilities for the necromancer to specialize because you just can't remove this main source of defense unless it's from utility skills that would consume LF.

> >

> > > I struggle to understand how you would want to see necromancer and its elites some times to be honest it kind of seems like you dont want them to do anything. other than kind of exists with even less defense then they already have.

> >

> > I don't mind the core necromancer shielding itself in shroud. Honnestly, it's fine. That said I'd like to see the power of the necromancer less concentrated into it's shroud with some damage potential added into the core weapon and core utility skills. The death shroud not doing that much damage is fine because, however you put it, it's mainly a defensive tool.

> >

> > I'd like the reaper to be the glassiest e-spec. Unable to shield itself but, through traits able to achieve incredible sustain at the cost of it's dps. _Blighter boon_ would have been able to achieve that for a reaper without 2nd health bar when it was affected by it's allies incoming boons.

> >

> > As for scourge, like I said, as long as they remove most of the damage from the shades skills, It would be fine.

> >

> > The problem of the necromancer is that defense and offense depend on life force. Core being a generalist that can't specialize is fine, however there is a need to let e-spec "sacrifice" defense or offense in order to specialize into something. What I want is simply that reaper become an offensive e-spec that have sacrificed it's survivability to pack some punch and scourge become a support that sacrifice a bit it's offense in order to support it's team. I know ANet tried to give this feel with various awful QoL nerf but the balance of the profession itself is wrong, having life force make the necromancer stronger in all aspects is fondamentally wrong, there is a need for a loss to be able to reach new heights and the loss (and gain) that ANet gave us up to now are just half-baked. Which is why the necromancer and it's e-specs stay in a realm of mediocrity however they build.

>

> Lifeforce is just a resource, nothing more. It could be compared with revenant energy, warrior adrenaline or thief initiative.

 

This is what i was effectively trying to say

 

Life force is just resource points regardless of if it shields your hp or not in the case of scourge it does not which means that anet can break away from this concept of shroud blocking your hp if the want to there is no such thing as "its impossible." The removal of life force as a general resource would not make any sense regardless of how its used. While life force can be problematic in competitive modes such as spvp where foes are not rapidly dying around you all the time to keep you topped off and skills alone are not sufficient enough to grant you generous amounts for ideal shroud/shade use (landing a single axe 2 or using every staff mark for example) thats about as far as it goes.

 

The main reason any form of necromancer works in wvw is because things are dying all the time to keep you topped off. In pve you don't take as much damage pressure as often also things still die quite alot or longer extended fights the boss is likely not fixated on you so your rate to build life force works out just fine.

 

Its mainly in spvp where life force as a resource becomes a problem across all 3 specs regardless if it shield your hp or not.

 

As far as what you look for in reaper thats already happened.

 

Between several nerfs and buffs in some areas reaper is far more offensive than core the only bit of core that can counter reaper is boon corruption and that screws every form of necromancer not just reaper.

 

Reaper has already loss a good bit of sustain and defense simply for the sake of having better melee offense. As far as life force making the necromancer stronger i dont understand why this is wrong. While i hate saying your statement is subjective here it really is. Every other class is stronger with their special f skill mechanic or resource and this is no exception to necromancer. Even if they removed the concept of life force it would just be replaced with whats likely an even worse resource to manage and there is no reason in going that far. While i agree specs should give up some of one thing for another i dont agree that pointing the finger at a resource is the main problem regardless of how that resource is used.

 

I mean i guess the only example you have to look at would be guardian which is only limited by cooldowns on their special skills and in the case of firebrands tomes which run on resource charges become much stronger than the other 2 forms i dont think just because something is tied to a resource is doomed to mean it will always be worse.

 

i still think the issue is that anet just makes poor design choices for the necromancer which leave its base deign concept outdated and unfinished.

 

Death magic was the chance to fix self sustain and add proper defensive missing utility issues with necromancer and they failed that redesign

Staff has no life force generation on its mark skills without a trait, Marks themselves are not scattered throughout all of necros kit like symbols and clone skill on other professions

Necromancer is still super limited on self boon generation both offensive and defensive while every other class has gained more boon options over time.

Conditional defense of the necromancer has gotten weaker over time, the nerf to cripple and chill before HoT, weakness is still based on rng, fear is outdated and has more counters than it did 3-4 years ago.

 

These are just a few things that keep necromancer where it is imo its not just simple life force as a resource. We just need a dev to commit to playing necromancer in spvp for a few months to understand how lacking it is in areas. Even scourge support is lacking almost 50% of its supportive strength is bandaiding off 2 or 3 bloodmagic traits.

[Painbow.6059]

it's true that Power Reaper is the only decent option for the majority of PvE content. Scourge is good on a few raid encounters, but either for epi or healing (condi scourge has garbage single target damage). Core necro is garbage. Scourge is garbage in fractals. Reaper is great in open world, but you will still pull behind good players on better classes on raids, and quite far behind good players on better classes in fractals due to the cooldown on your burst skills.

[LucianDK.8615]

Scourge sure have fallen far since the release of Pof. WvW badly hurting the espec because of Anet's reluctance to do proper skillsplits.

[Anchoku.8142]

Let's see what tomorrow's changes bring. The balance team split may result in something useful and not result in making professions more clunky and unbalanced... maybe.

[Methuselah.4376]

> @"Painbow.6059" said:

> Reaper is great in open world, but you will still pull behind good players on better classes on raids, and quite far behind good players on better classes in fractals due to the cooldown on your burst skills.

 

Not sure I agree on the fractal part. Am always top dps in fractals. My biggest cooldown would be Lich Form (as part of my burst rotation) but that tends to be easily solved with mistlock when going through the fractal.

[Painbow.6059]

> @"Methuselah.4376" said:

> > @"Painbow.6059" said:

> > Reaper is great in open world, but you will still pull behind good players on better classes on raids, and quite far behind good players on better classes in fractals due to the cooldown on your burst skills.

>

> Not sure I agree on the fractal part. Am always top dps in fractals. My biggest cooldown would be Lich Form (as part of my burst rotation) but that tends to be easily solved with mistlock when going through the fractal.

 

If you're good and you're playing with people who are not good then of course, you will be top dps. But if you play with good Dragonhunters or Weavers, you won't be able to keep up in most fights. And by burst I'm including Well of Suffering, Nightfall and Soulspiral. On DH for example, your F1 and trap have a much lower cooldown

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> I don-t personally like dadnirs ideas for reaper in that having some tools is needed to survive.

>

> If thats the case then warriors need to be heavily nerfed, as well as guardians holosmiths and soulbeast.

>

> I can understand the whole bit of reaper is good at damage, but if they cannot survive they become punching bags.

>

> Also im not 100% convinced that scourge cannot become condi. I can accept the idea of scourge sacrificing dps to become full on support, but it better be really good and not so niche that not even fractals would want them. I'd love if there was some way to make it so changing traits effects your sandshades and abilities massively nerfs dmg and buffs the support traits making you highly desireable in pve.

>

> Also: Until they fix the mechanics and overhaul for pve so that it doesn't suck to cast, i feel like scourge is going to be in a very rough place.

 

For raids:

As long as druid exists, it still won't make it to main heal in raids.

Cause there's 25might to 10 targets permanent + swiftness, fury and regeneration on 5 targets + spirits + spotter

 

For fractals it's playable but heavily outclassed by firebrigade and if you want fast clears you need the dps players to get their fury themselves.

 

Again looking at raids:

There's actually a lot of bosses that can be solohealed.

And as long as necro can't give the required boons it won't make it to soloheal. So it's only a niche role.

Or better to say only a niche class. That's how it's always been.

outside of epibouncing times, that I don't consider that bad. Was it way to strong? Yes. Can other classes do insane amounts of dmg on their own? - yes. Firebrand for example is absolutely ridiculous with their f1 resets and even without.

 

Epi bouncing at least needed some coordination and communication. Right now you can braindead play your rota on any class, without communication needed.

Not to mention that epi bounce doesn't work on all bosses as there are no adds

[Methuselah.4376]

> @"Painbow.6059" said:

> > @"Methuselah.4376" said:

> > > @"Painbow.6059" said:

> > > Reaper is great in open world, but you will still pull behind good players on better classes on raids, and quite far behind good players on better classes in fractals due to the cooldown on your burst skills.

> >

> > Not sure I agree on the fractal part. Am always top dps in fractals. My biggest cooldown would be Lich Form (as part of my burst rotation) but that tends to be easily solved with mistlock when going through the fractal.

>

> If you're good and you're playing with people who are not good then of course, you will be top dps. But if you play with good Dragonhunters or Weavers, you won't be able to keep up in most fights. And by burst I'm including Well of Suffering, Nightfall and Soulspiral. On DH for example, your F1 and trap have a much lower cooldown

 

My burst includes a Summon Madness precast, Well of Suffering, Well of Corruption, Nightfall and Soul Spiral. Honestly, damage is huge. And while I have been beaten the odd time, I don't think I played with bad DHs or Weavers for months on end, I've had some fantastic comps.

[Wuffy.9732]

Maybe anet will eventually nerf scourge into the ground so much that there will be a complete overhaul of the elite spec all together. Then it'll get the same treatment as reaper did.

 

Incoming power creep!