Norn Racial Skill Update

[Brother.1504]

With the new Saga focused on the Norn do you guys think racial skills should be updated? I’m suggesting Norn animal forms be changed into an elite kit. Toggled on and off. Perhaps even tied to masteries. Obviously Charr and the other races could get the same treatment when narratively appropriate.

[Brycar.2651]

Yes! I too wish the racial skills were beefed up. However I do mostly solo PVE. So, I still use the racial skills for fun. You can still do 95% of the living story with racial skills. Also, I use the traits which give you a boost when you use any elite skills. My Norn Raven shaman benefits.

[Dante.1508]

People have been asking for racial updates for 7 years, sadly Anet just ignores these things.

[LucianDK.8615]

> @"Dante.1508" said:

> People have been asking for racial updates for 7 years, sadly Anet just ignores these things.

 

The racials is just fluff abilities. If they became stronger, they would lead to people rolling only that race or having it demanded by raids. Anet have been quick to nerf racials if they became too good.

[Opopanax.1803]

> @"Brother.1504" said:

> With the new Saga focused on the Norn do you guys think racial skills should be updated? I’m suggesting Norn animal forms be changed into an elite kit. Toggled on and off. Perhaps even tied to masteries. Obviously Charr and the other races could get the same treatment when narratively appropriate.

 

I like this idea.

 

Would like to see all racials rolled into mastery lines that any class can unlock and equip.

 

Thus, no need to make them worthless since they could be learned by any race.

 

Plus, skill combinations and builds are one of the most fun things in GW...this would just make it better!

[Knighthonor.4061]

NORN Revenant player here. We cry in silence

[Dante.1508]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > @"Dante.1508" said:

> > People have been asking for racial updates for 7 years, sadly Anet just ignores these things.

>

> The racials is just fluff abilities. If they became stronger, they would lead to people rolling only that race or having it demanded by raids. Anet have been quick to nerf racials if they became too good.

 

Seems good to me then they could actually make all races good in different ways.

[Torzini.1523]

> @"Dante.1508" said:

> > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > > @"Dante.1508" said:

> > > People have been asking for racial updates for 7 years, sadly Anet just ignores these things.

> >

> > The racials is just fluff abilities. If they became stronger, they would lead to people rolling only that race or having it demanded by raids. Anet have been quick to nerf racials if they became too good.

>

> Seems good to me then they could actually make all races good in different ways.

 

Yeah.... problem with that is that there will still always be something that is 'best' for a particular situation. I'd rather not have an ESO situation where you have little choice but to be X or Y race as a certain build if you want to actually be competitive. Anet purposely keeps racial skills weak for a reason, and that's so that all races will always, no matter what, be equally good.

 

Agree with it or not, that's their reasoning. And personally, I prefer it that way even if sure, stronger racial toys would be fun. We don't need 'human DHs only' or whatever similar thing would arise. There is already too much of an emphasis on meta already with some people, and this would make it worse.

[Weindrasi.3805]

YES PLEASE!

Norn should be able to stay in animal form as long as they wish.

The animal forms aren't good for anything except PvE map exploration anyway, so it's not like it would give Norn a crazy advantage (this is compounded by the fact you could prevent mounting while in animal-form). And if it threatened to imbalance competitive modes-just remove the permanent form option from PvP/WvW and you're good to go. As for raids... animal forms as they currently stand would be no threat to raid balance if made permanent--they aren't strong enough to use in endgame PvE instances.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Weindrasi.3805" said:

> Norn should be able to stay in animal form as long as they wish.

Only if Golem suits, Hounds of Balthazar, etc become permanent, too.

 

 

[Vancho.8750]

Maybe they should roll the Norn forms into cosmetics that change the look of some abilities rampage, shroud, holo forge even going into stealth (updated to look cool of course since the old design is kinda so 2012), maybe something like a toggle that that changes the appearance from time to time when you get this and that boon or trait triggered. Maybe even armors that change the appearance of body parts like a helm that changes your face into bear something like the concept art for Jora https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:%22Jora%22_concept_art.jpg.

It is weird that one of the main features of the Norn is the transformations but there isn't any gameplay related to it except the elites that are kinda lame.

[Cyninja.2954]

No.

 

Why?

 

Because as has been discussed for 7 years by now: racial skills are ment to be fluff.

 

Arenant has been very consistent on making sure all racial skills are severly underpowered even going as far as rebalancing racuals which might give a 5% advantage in specific situations (for example sylvary turret seeds on some raid encounters on specific classes).

 

I wouldn't even be negatively affected given I have 30 class/race combinations. I still don't think other players should be required to reroll classes based on race.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

What I want is for the Norn Forms to unlock Novelty Transformations (essentially combat tonics) so we can use the aesthetic without affecting balance.

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"Weindrasi.3805" said:

> YES PLEASE!

> Norn should be able to stay in animal form as long as they wish.

> The animal forms aren't good for anything except PvE map exploration anyway, so it's not like it would give Norn a crazy advantage (this is compounded by the fact you could prevent mounting while in animal-form). And if it threatened to imbalance competitive modes-just remove the permanent form option from PvP/WvW and you're good to go. As for raids... animal forms as they currently stand would be no threat to raid balance if made permanent--they aren't strong enough to use in endgame PvE instances.

 

Someone pointed out to me that even allowing this, someone would use things like bear/snow leopard shape for the rush skills to skip things in dungeons/fractals. As such it would be a superior choice.

 

So it would have to be ONLY for open-world pve, no instanced content either.

 

> @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> What I want is for the Norn Forms to unlock Novelty Transformations (essentially combat tonics) so we can use the aesthetic without affecting balance.

 

This is probably the best/only way we're ever going to get to be able to stay in the Transformation forms for Norn.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Torzini.1523" said:

> > @"Dante.1508" said:

> > > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > > > @"Dante.1508" said:

> > > > People have been asking for racial updates for 7 years, sadly Anet just ignores these things.

> > >

> > > The racials is just fluff abilities. If they became stronger, they would lead to people rolling only that race or having it demanded by raids. Anet have been quick to nerf racials if they became too good.

> >

> > Seems good to me then they could actually make all races good in different ways.

>

> Yeah.... problem with that is that there will still always be something that is 'best' for a particular situation. I'd rather not have an ESO situation where you have little choice but to be X or Y race as a certain build if you want to actually be competitive. Anet purposely keeps racial skills weak for a reason, and that's so that all races will always, no matter what, be equally good.

>

> Agree with it or not, that's their reasoning. And personally, I prefer it that way even if sure, stronger racial toys would be fun. We don't need 'human DHs only' or whatever similar thing would arise. There is already too much of an emphasis on meta already with some people, and this would make it worse.

 

I actually feel this logic makes it 100% ludicrous to have any race but humans, why bother devoting Dev time to something that doesn't matter. It ruins the flair and the idea the other races are cooler as X. Why not make it a cosmetic thing, for example the norn get the form of their choice based on the spirit they choose and they can pick to be in that form or their more human form at will? We could do the same thing with the humans, making a toggle-able appearance of being touched by the gods? Glowing eyes, markings, an aura maybe. Make it based on those first moments in character creation and make it something unique to you so you can make yourself stand out, the racial elites at the bare minimum should be good (Equal sure, but good.)

 

Even the racial skills should have their place, and should work as actual skills. Otherwise they shouldn't exist because they are not worth even glancing at. I mean hounds of balthazar are strong enough to be in a build. So is the little vine turrets and grasping vines of the sylvari, and the asuran have that turret which peels conditions all of which are viable. Meanwhile Charr and norn don't have a single racial ability that works well enough to be used in any situation, this needs to change and honestly Id love to have more of a reason to play as other races. (I play mainly as norn and charr, I only have a human on my account for the story acheivo. I haven't touched them since.)

 

Lets go full on and make race locked classes, make them something you earn via a collection that is only accessible for your race. (Humans get dervish, Norn get havroun, Sylvari get Valiant, Charr get Legionnaire, and asuran get golem-mancer) Bring this cool stuff we've heard so much about into the game, Im tired of this game catering to the babies who don't understand that it is a MMO but its also an RPG. Right now it feels more like a hack-n-slash, it has little elements that actually matter and race at some level should. (Plus if you do stuff like this, people might be inclined to TRY other races. I might be inclined to try a human, get the acheivo to get a dervish because it was my main in guild wars 1.)

[Kulvar.1239]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Weindrasi.3805" said:

> > Norn should be able to stay in animal form as long as they wish.

> Only if Golem suits, Hounds of Balthazar, etc become permanent, too.

>

>

 

I agree with the Asura elite skill. Nerf them, but make them permanent. So sweet for roleplay.

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> I actually feel this logic makes it 100% ludicrous to have any race but humans, why bother devoting Dev time to something that doesn't matter. It ruins the flair and the idea the other races are cooler as X. Why not make it a cosmetic thing, for example the norn get the form of their choice based on the spirit they choose and they can pick to be in that form or their more human form at will? We could do the same thing with the humans, making a toggle-able appearance of being touched by the gods? Glowing eyes, markings, an aura maybe. Make it based on those first moments in character creation and make it something unique to you so you can make yourself stand out, the racial elites at the bare minimum should be good (Equal sure, but good.)

 

You know, this makes a striking argument for actually removing all the racial skills, and instead change the race skills into racial "glamours", basically more visual effects. That would actually be very much in line with the game and playerbase, most seemingly go head over heels for more glamour options, more shiny effects etc.

 

So replace all the racial skills with options chosen at character creation that affects your looks and apperances, perhaps in specific situations like in combat (norn transformations) with toggles on etc.

 

Still don't think ANet is going to do that, simply because they hate touching old stuff, and I'm going to guess this lies in the "spagethi code" part of the game.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > I actually feel this logic makes it 100% ludicrous to have any race but humans, why bother devoting Dev time to something that doesn't matter. It ruins the flair and the idea the other races are cooler as X. Why not make it a cosmetic thing, for example the norn get the form of their choice based on the spirit they choose and they can pick to be in that form or their more human form at will? We could do the same thing with the humans, making a toggle-able appearance of being touched by the gods? Glowing eyes, markings, an aura maybe. Make it based on those first moments in character creation and make it something unique to you so you can make yourself stand out, the racial elites at the bare minimum should be good (Equal sure, but good.)

>

> You know, this makes a striking argument for actually removing all the racial skills, and instead change the race skills into racial "glamours", basically more visual effects. That would actually be very much in line with the game and playerbase, most seemingly go head over heels for more glamour options, more shiny effects etc.

>

> So replace all the racial skills with options chosen at character creation that affects your looks and apperances, perhaps in specific situations like in combat (norn transformations) with toggles on etc.

>

> Still don't think ANet is going to do that, simply because they hate touching old stuff, and I'm going to guess this lies in the "spagethi code" part of the game.

 

Comes down to them not caring, and not wanting to have to be bothered to touch up on features of the game that are lacking. They'd rather let a game mode die for example than offer anything to it. (Dungeons and soon im sure to be WvW, PvP, fractals and raids) A glamour thats there strictly for customization would be perfect and would make everyone happy, would it require work? Yes. Would it sell character appearance changes? Yes. Could it also sell Character slots for people who don't have other races than their chosen one? Yes.

 

It would be a long term investment, but it would pay itself off easily.

[Perisemiotics.4579]

I just want to point out this "saga" has very little of Norn to it, it's basically a Charr saga taking place in Norn homelands - apart from aspiring Jhavi (I did like her) and Braham being made a figure of fun as usual, this is all about the Charr. The prologue gave us almost a second Charr capital along with several interesting and fleshed out characters like Ryland, Bangar, Crecia and Greetsglory (not to mention the Metal Legion which is a whole thing by itself) with a lot of potential for future plots. The "prologue" had so much more story and intrigue than the first episode itself, whose climax by the way was the death of yet another great Charr... I know the map will expand and it's early in the season but until we get a lot more Norn characters involved in the story (living characters, not holograms from the past, lol) it feels like a Charr saga to me.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Perisemiotics.4579" said:

> I just want to point out this "saga" has very little of Norn to it, it's basically a Charr saga taking place in Norn homelands - apart from aspiring Jhavi (I did like her) and Braham being made a figure of fun as usual, this is all about the Charr. The prologue gave us almost a second Charr capital along with several interesting and fleshed out characters like Ryland, Bangar, Crecia and Greetsglory (not to mention the Metal Legion which is a whole thing by itself) with a lot of potential for future plots. The "prologue" had so much more story and intrigue than the first episode itself, whose climax by the way was the death of yet another great Charr... I know the map will expand and it's early in the season but until we get a lot more Norn characters involved in the story (living characters, not holograms from the past, lol) it feels like a Charr saga to me.

 

Im pretty sure you're right on the money, It will be charr centered and the norn will just exist. Sure seems like its mostly charr, hell metal legion even says "Charr forever, be proud" where as with the norn we get very little outside of the interactions with the memory of asgeir. (Happens as a side thing) and more norn turning to jormag, as a norn player I wana go join jormag and flip the bird to the rest of tyria at this point. Maybe then Ill be able to shapeshift and it will be cool again....

[Tekoneiric.6817]

I've wanted an update for a long time. I've posted on this topic before and out came the negative responses. I really think these skills are basic to the game. They should have their own skill track and position on the bar by combining the health skill with the health indicator then using the free slot for those skills.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Tekoneiric.6817" said:

>They should have their own skill track and position on the bar

 

Then you would hit a problem, though.

Either you disable the racial slot for everything but Open world, or some races are bound to be more effective for some classes, which Arenanet wants to prevent.

For example, humans have a healing racial which would make humans more preferable to those Guardians choosing the trait that drops a symbol on the use of healing skills.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Tekoneiric.6817" said:

> >They should have their own skill track and position on the bar

>

> Then you would hit a problem, though.

> Either you disable the racial slot for everything but Open world, or some races are bound to be more effective for some classes, which Arenanet wants to prevent.

> For example, humans have a healing racial which would make humans more preferable to those Guardians choosing the trait that drops a symbol on the use of healing skills.

 

This is the whole point of balancing the skills. As it is some professions are more effective than others. While balancing they could rework some to work different, balance others the same as they do with everything else in the game. Plus having them on one skill slot would allow a player to have only one available at a time.

 

Although it seems to me that it would make an effective way to make a GW1 style monk using a guardian with human healing skills.

[Weindrasi.3805]

I did not consider a combat tonic or cosmetic alternative to the norn forms... But yeah, that would be a great idea. If they updated the visual quality and movements of the norn forms to avoid weird glitches, they could just let norn players unlock a norn-exclusive tonic or toggle... Maybe when the character hits 80 or something...to transform into their were forms, while retaining their normal attack skills. The only issue... I doubt arenanet is willing to animate all the weapon and attack stances on norn were forms

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Weindrasi.3805" said:

> I did not consider a combat tonic or cosmetic alternative to the norn forms... But yeah, that would be a great idea. If they updated the visual quality and movements of the norn forms to avoid weird glitches, they could just let norn players unlock a norn-exclusive tonic or toggle... Maybe when the character hits 80 or something...to transform into their were forms, while retaining their normal attack skills. The only issue... I doubt arenanet is willing to animate all the weapon and attack stances on norn were forms

 

If they did all that, I'd be surprised if it stayed Norn-only instead of being sold as "Outfits" like the Human gods' regalias (which are based on Dervish Elite skills) are.