Requested trait change - Death Chill (Reaper GM)

[Redpawa.4108]

This is just a small requested trait change before the update coming on the 3rd of December, but would improve the viability of condition damage reapers.

 

**Deathly Chill**

~~2 Bleeding (8s) ~~ 2 Poison (8s)

 

This change would mean that every skill in the reaper kit would have poison on it, excluding the auto attack. This is complimented very well with [Putrid Defense ](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Putrid_Defense)in Death Magic.

 

EDIT: Saw someone suggest this in the [condi reaper thread](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/92977/the-current-state-of-condi-reaper#latest), I don't know how to close a thread but would appreciate it if a mod did.

[XECOR.2814]

i would love if they did that because it doesn't have a niche even. Maybe this will fix that. I still hate the simplicity of these traits but it would be better than what it is rn.

[KrHome.1920]

Too strong because the damage in pve would go through the roof and even the pvp version could stack 10 poison in 1 second and repeat that every few seconds.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Too strong because the damage in pve would go through the roof and even the pvp version could stack 10 poison in 1 second and repeat that every few seconds.

 

It wouldn't make PvE DPS "to strong" or "shooting throught the roof" for the simple reason that bleed is a condition that the core necromancer build more easily and can support more easily through runes/traits. What you gain in poison damage you lose in duration and stack generation.

 

No, the real issue of the suggestion is the sPvP/WvW aspect where poison work at 100% (Mob in PvE rarely heal themself). Buffing sPvP/WvW condi reaper by replacing bleed by poison is bound to generate loads of complains.

 

Reminder: Replacing bleed by poison is a mechanic change and ANet don't split mechanics.

[Sigmoid.7082]

The high uptime on heal reduction would be complained about to no end.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > Too strong because the damage in pve would go through the roof and even the pvp version could stack 10 poison in 1 second and repeat that every few seconds.

>

> It wouldn't make PvE DPS "to strong" or "shooting throught the roof" for the simple reason that bleed is a condition that the core necromancer build more easily and can support more easily through runes/traits. What you gain in poison damage you lose in duration and stack generation.

>

> No, the real issue of the suggestion is the sPvP/WvW aspect where poison work at 100% (Mob in PvE rarely heal themself). Buffing sPvP/WvW condi reaper by replacing bleed by poison is bound to generate loads of complains.

>

> Reminder: Replacing bleed by poison is a mechanic change and ANet don't split mechanics.

We are talking about deathly chill right? The reaper gm trait. Right?

 

Currently you can burst stack 10 bleeds for 8 seconds in pvp/wvw and 20 bleeds for 8 seconds in pve (11,5 seconds on viper/trailblazer).

 

Now change that to 10 and 20 poison (a condition that deals a lot more damage than bleeding) like the OP suggested and also think about the almost 100% poison uptime in the competitive modes on up to 5 targets and tell me again that this won't cause any problems.

 

I can tell you without any further math that this would raise viper pve reaper dps to about something around 35k (on the most tanky dps spec in the game). That's way too much considering condi reaper has tools like epidemic. And now think about trailblazer in wvw... something you don't want to fight... well at least not when I am the one who controls that reaper.

[Redpawa.4108]

I can see no issue with this in WvW or PvE, given that pirateship meta is unbreakable anyway and it would be a DPS increase for an under performing build respectively.

I am not to well versed on PvP balance so I didn't think the healing reduction would have any more of an impact than fighting against Deadly Arts Thief. Is there anything that could be done to help tone this down in PvP?

[Axl.8924]

for SPVP i can definitely see this as problematic and it could cause huge complaints about it.

 

Can we just get rid of epidemic already so we can have dps equal to others? Personally, i would rather sacrfice epidemic a situational niche condi for this to have equal dps to others thats less niche and situational, at least for pve that is.

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > Too strong because the damage in pve would go through the roof and even the pvp version could stack 10 poison in 1 second and repeat that every few seconds.

> >

> > It wouldn't make PvE DPS "to strong" or "shooting throught the roof" for the simple reason that bleed is a condition that the core necromancer build more easily and can support more easily through runes/traits. What you gain in poison damage you lose in duration and stack generation.

> >

> > No, the real issue of the suggestion is the sPvP/WvW aspect where poison work at 100% (Mob in PvE rarely heal themself). Buffing sPvP/WvW condi reaper by replacing bleed by poison is bound to generate loads of complains.

> >

> > Reminder: Replacing bleed by poison is a mechanic change and ANet don't split mechanics.

> We are talking about deathly chill right? The reaper gm trait. Right?

>

> Currently you can burst stack 10 bleeds for 8 seconds in pvp/wvw and 20 bleeds for 8 seconds in pve (11,5 seconds on viper/trailblazer).

>

> Now change that to 10 and 20 poison (a condition that deals a lot more damage than bleeding) like the OP suggested and also think about the almost 100% poison uptime in the competitive modes on up to 5 targets and tell me again that this won't cause any problems.

>

> I can tell you without any further math that this would raise viper pve reaper dps to about something around 35k (on the most tanky dps spec in the game). That's way too much considering condi reaper has tools like epidemic. And now think about trailblazer in wvw... something you don't want to fight... well at least not when I am the one who controls that reaper.

 

The difference between a stack of poison and a stack of bleed is constant at 11.5 damage, whatever your condition damage value is. The 20 stack burst net you a dps difference of 221 points of damage untraited and whatever your condi stat is.

Curse naturally grant condition duration to bleed and you are not pigeonholed into a DM that naturally make you build a toughness that don't affect food convertion.

The necromancer's weapon build bleed more easily than they build poison.

 

All of those facts allow me to confidently say that you won't have a significant increase in dps if you replace bleed by poison. And you'll certainly not reach 35k dps because the build investment that you put into poison is the build investment that you remove from bleed. The very best that you could expect to reach would be 30k and you'd be unwelcome into raids because you'd make aggro volatile.

 

Like I said, the only significant difference is the nerf of the ability to heal of your foe. And the only gamemode affected by that are PvP and WvW. Which is why this change is something that shouldn't happen.

[Hannelore.8153]

I think it would need to be three stacks of Poison, to be fair, because Bleeding only becomes Vigor while Poison becomes Regeneration.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Template:Condition_conversion_table

 

People seem to forget that converting Poison not only removes the malus but turns it into healing. "But my class doesn't have access to that!", maybe not, but many of the allies running around you in PvP/WvW do, and are probably using it on you.

 

I'd actually prefer 2 Poison/1 Vulnerability, but that's even more dangerous for conversions..

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Not happening because reaper could then hamper enemy healing indefinitely. I do however see and agree with OP on the problem of Death Magic not giving good enough methods to stack carapace if you don't go Corrupter's Fervor.