TheGrimm.5624 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 > @"subversiontwo.7501" said: > I can't think of many players who tried EotM and developed a WvW mentality from it or anything else that in any way had aided WvW as a whole. I like EoTM because alpine was old and tired when it came out. It was a fresh, new place to fight that had more depth than alpine and offered fighting where your positional spacing made a difference. Why stop doing EoTM, because it didn't aid the weekly score even though the weekly score doesn't have any value outside of it being numbers. But since it didn't help at all it was more of a selfish game mode which in the end isn't what WvW is about, it's about what you can do together. Add in lack of pips and XP and the rest and yes it just loses more appeal. Were there K-Trains, yes, were there fights, yes. Are there K-Trains in WvW, yes as well. So yes from this side would like to see the map incorporated into WvW, either as an replacement or additional map or at least bring it into scoring and level out the rewards/abilities. Personally I think gliding would neutralize people issues with falling, you could mostly already live with falling on that map since you could port before you hit that spot where it marked you as dead if you weren't condi'd up. So bring it back into play, since alpine hasn't gotten any more interesting than it was years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > eotm solved the issue of population difference per time zone. twas the future. > > > > > > > > > > Not really as one side typically dominated the others in numbers. This was apparent in the rare occurrence when opposing sides did happen to collide. > > > > > > > > well thats how it is in competetion. 1 normally is better than the other 2. you got to have a winner. > > > > > > Except they dominated because they had more players. That’s what I was getting at when I replied to your post about claiming it solved the population difference by saying “not really”. > > > > actually it does in a way. it's more fair than 4 vs 40. :) > > So.. you would be willing to have a single player hotjoin system where you were distributed to the next world which needed a player? > > No queuing up with squads/parties? Really? > > Because that would be the only way you could assure ‘balance’ of numbers. you can queu as squad or party in spvp eotm wvw. where did u get the idea of single player queue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blockhead Magee.3092 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 > @"Liston.9708" said: > Don’t waste any time allotted for wvw development on eotm. There are already not enough resources spent on wvw.. (if any tbh) This. Absolutely this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > eotm solved the issue of population difference per time zone. twas the future. > > > > > > > > > > Not really as one side typically dominated the others in numbers. This was apparent in the rare occurrence when opposing sides did happen to collide. > > > > > > > > well thats how it is in competetion. 1 normally is better than the other 2. you got to have a winner. > > > > > > Except they dominated because they had more players. That’s what I was getting at when I replied to your post about claiming it solved the population difference by saying “not really”. > > > > actually it does in a way. it's more fair than 4 vs 40. :) > > A lot of the time, the difference in populations were just like that too. I believe this may have been due to overflows. thats fine. tis eotm. i think we simply dont got the numbers to do a lot of tiers on some time zones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > @"subversiontwo.7501" said: > > I can't think of many players who tried EotM and developed a WvW mentality from it or anything else that in any way had aided WvW as a whole. > > I like EoTM because alpine was old and tired when it came out. It was a fresh, new place to fight that had more depth than alpine and offered fighting where your positional spacing made a difference. Why stop doing EoTM, because it didn't aid the weekly score even though the weekly score doesn't have any value outside of it being numbers. But since it didn't help at all it was more of a selfish game mode which in the end isn't what WvW is about, it's about what you can do together. > > Add in lack of pips and XP and the rest and yes it just loses more appeal. Were there K-Trains, yes, were there fights, yes. Are there K-Trains in WvW, yes as well. So yes from this side would like to see the map incorporated into WvW, either as an replacement or additional map or at least bring it into scoring and level out the rewards/abilities. > > Personally I think gliding would neutralize people issues with falling, you could mostly already live with falling on that map since you could port before you hit that spot where it marked you as dead if you weren't condi'd up. So bring it back into play, since alpine hasn't gotten any more interesting than it was years ago. That's nice, still doesn't change the fact you can't straight up swap eotm for borderland maps. Eotm was an overflow map designed to be a place to play when queues were up, nothing selfish in design, it's a holding area for wvw, the only selfish thing was players only wanting to play here and yet earn everything like wvw, many took advantage of that and earned thousands of easy levels/ranks in there. You can still play there and level rank and gain tomes of knowledge from rank ups and rewards tracks in there, there's nothing stopping people from leveling in there, if you want wvw pip rewards play on the main wvw maps. People don't demand anet to bring raid rewards to dungeons, stop asking for wvw rewards in eotm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 > @"XenesisII.1540" said: > > That's nice, still doesn't change the fact you can't straight up swap eotm for borderland maps. > > Eotm was an overflow map designed to be a place to play when queues were up, nothing selfish in design, it's a holding area for wvw, the only selfish thing was players only wanting to play here and yet earn everything like wvw, many took advantage of that and earned thousands of easy levels/ranks in there. You can still play there and level rank and gain tomes of knowledge from rank ups and rewards tracks in there, there's nothing stopping people from leveling in there, if you want wvw pip rewards play on the main wvw maps. People don't demand anet to bring raid rewards to dungeons, stop asking for wvw rewards in eotm. Agree would not want the rewards added in if the scoring bit was not added as well. Am asking to replace one of the ABL with EoTM and bring it fully into WvW. As far as the can't swap, that's up to ANet. Its their software, limit is their imagination. Balance the scoring points, give whatever side has home the most defendable keep, tie in blood lust mechanics, adjust any mechanic that needs tweaking, add in the scoring and roll. That's way over simplifying it but in general that's got to be easier than creating a whole new map. I get the arguments above about prefer resources elsewhere, but that assumes the same resources would be used for both. And if need be, get more resources. Stale maps were a big topic on the old forums and it hasn't gone away. Good gaming where you find it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moira Shalaar.5620 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > EoTM hasn’t changed.., People don’t play there because it obviously isn’t fun enough to overcome the only difference from WvW maps: pips. Actually the devs disincentivized EotM quite some time ago, long before Pips were even a thing in WvW. They reduced the WXP & karma that originally were a big draw. Regular WvW players objected to the rate at which players were leveling up in EotM and Anet listened and acted. Then, as they have over time added rewards to WvW, those have not been put in to EotM, which has created an ever widening gap between the two. So in one way you are not entirely accurate, EotM DID change, a deliberate nerf hammer that pretty much killed it as a mode, but on the other hand you are right in that EotM hasn't changed to keep up with the changes in WvW. Both have contributed to the very sad state of affairs in EotM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 > @"Moira Shalaar.5620" said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > EoTM hasn’t changed.., People don’t play there because it obviously isn’t fun enough to overcome the only difference from WvW maps: pips. > > Actually the devs disincentivized EotM quite some time ago, long before Pips were even a thing in WvW. They reduced the WXP & karma that originally were a big draw. Regular WvW players objected to the rate at which players were leveling up in EotM and Anet listened and acted. Then, as they have over time added rewards to WvW, those have not been put in to EotM, which has created an ever widening gap between the two. > > So in one way you are not entirely accurate, EotM DID change, a deliberate nerf hammer that pretty much killed it as a mode, but on the other hand you are right in that EotM hasn't changed to keep up with the changes in WvW. Both have contributed to the very sad state of affairs in EotM. Karma was removed from WvW and EoTM. Experience was removed from both as well. WxP was always reduced in EoTM per structure/capture. What made it ‘more’ was the karma train of circular capture that occurred. The ONLY thing WvW has that EoTM does not is Pips. (Skirmish track) It has reward tracks, you get tome of knowledge like in WvW, and you get a slightly reduced WxP per structure. And people left EoTM BEFORE pips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkpile.7439 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Pips are only reason why i don't play EotM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > eotm solved the issue of population difference per time zone. twas the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really as one side typically dominated the others in numbers. This was apparent in the rare occurrence when opposing sides did happen to collide. > > > > > > > > > > well thats how it is in competetion. 1 normally is better than the other 2. you got to have a winner. > > > > > > > > Except they dominated because they had more players. That’s what I was getting at when I replied to your post about claiming it solved the population difference by saying “not really”. > > > > > > actually it does in a way. it's more fair than 4 vs 40. :) > > > > So.. you would be willing to have a single player hotjoin system where you were distributed to the next world which needed a player? > > > > No queuing up with squads/parties? Really? > > > > Because that would be the only way you could assure ‘balance’ of numbers. > > you can queu as squad or party in spvp eotm wvw. where did u get the idea of single player queue? > > sPvP you can queue as a two person Group. Again, you don’t really want true population balance. If that was the case, you would be fine with limiting it to solo join which would place you on the side that had an opening. But again, this would effectively kill it and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subversiontwo.7501 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 > @"XenesisII.1540" said: > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > @"subversiontwo.7501" said: > > > I can't think of many players who tried EotM and developed a WvW mentality from it or anything else that in any way had aided WvW as a whole. > > > > I like EoTM because alpine was old and tired when it came out. It was a fresh, new place to fight that had more depth than alpine and offered fighting where your positional spacing made a difference. Why stop doing EoTM, because it didn't aid the weekly score even though the weekly score doesn't have any value outside of it being numbers. But since it didn't help at all it was more of a selfish game mode which in the end isn't what WvW is about, it's about what you can do together. > > > > Add in lack of pips and XP and the rest and yes it just loses more appeal. Were there K-Trains, yes, were there fights, yes. Are there K-Trains in WvW, yes as well. So yes from this side would like to see the map incorporated into WvW, either as an replacement or additional map or at least bring it into scoring and level out the rewards/abilities. > > > > Personally I think gliding would neutralize people issues with falling, you could mostly already live with falling on that map since you could port before you hit that spot where it marked you as dead if you weren't condi'd up. So bring it back into play, since alpine hasn't gotten any more interesting than it was years ago. > > That's nice, still doesn't change the fact you can't straight up swap eotm for borderland maps. > > Eotm was an overflow map designed to be a place to play when queues were up, nothing selfish in design, it's a holding area for wvw, the only selfish thing was players only wanting to play here and yet earn everything like wvw, many took advantage of that and earned thousands of easy levels/ranks in there. You can still play there and level rank and gain tomes of knowledge from rank ups and rewards tracks in there, there's nothing stopping people from leveling in there, if you want wvw pip rewards play on the main wvw maps. People don't demand anet to bring raid rewards to dungeons, stop asking for wvw rewards in eotm. EotM may have become everything that both of you describe but it wasn't necessarily designed to be that. EotM was designed to be WvW 2.0. It was the first major overhaul to the design and underlying mechanics of the game mode while building upon the notion of what made the WvW the mode it is. It was the first attempt at dealing with the population imbalances that were already noted at the time and have plagued the mode since. It may have been a testbed used as an overflow or an alternate mode and it was left in that state (same as OS for example) of a testbed. However, the system was far more ambitious than that and remains the largest changes implemented into WvW to date (a rather sorry notion when you think of it), it was just left unfinished. What transpired was then that the first few weeks almost everyone played it. It only took a few weeks for the WvW players to notice that the map wasn't conducive to WvW gameplay and that things like using chokes or fearing people off ledges and bridges to punch above your weight quickly grew boring. It ended up with players avoiding most places on the map, looking for content at certain spots (reminding you of DBL?) such as the middle ground still used to this day for GvG (despite the added arena, as the arena isn't fully conducive to what it was made for). The other areas then became less used as upscaled ambushing spots and more becomming ganking spots on players trying to make it to the fights with plenty of obstacles for singular players running back (reminding you of DBL?). If fights actually branched out and took place around objectives the layout of the map caused quite alot of scenarios where the chokes and bridges made relatively equal-sized groups reluctant to fight each other. So while chokes, falls and terrain can be used to enable upscaled fights (still done to this day), they also interfere with relatively even fights so having an overabundance of them on a map is generally a bad thing because it will stifle more content than it enables (again, both of the most recent maps). It wasn't until the people who wanted fights left (both open field and siege; because let's face it, siege isn't amazing on those maps either) that it turned into the overflow and K-train map it became known for. It became populated with people who did not want to play WvW and rather became an overflow map for PvE than anything else, a map that could be farmed for XP-related stuff between PvE events. Not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself but not something that aided WvW and a far snivel from the initial ambition and call to the map. With a better map it could easily still have been an alternate WvW mode; in fact, since the addition of the arena and the more separated state of the GvG scene one could argue that it has become that now recently to a certain extent. Still, just with a better map it could easily have served far better and more ambitious things for WvW (ie., being a lobby, overflow and proper guild-meeting space with some introductive content into the mode) so it is a shame that something like that wasn't more wholeheartedly explored, earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moira Shalaar.5620 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > Karma was removed from WvW and EoTM. > Experience was removed from both as well. > WxP was always reduced in EoTM per structure/capture. What made it ‘more’ was the karma train of circular capture that occurred. > The ONLY thing WvW has that EoTM does not is Pips. (Skirmish track) > It has reward tracks, you get tome of knowledge like in WvW, and you get a slightly reduced WxP per structure. > And people left EoTM BEFORE pips. 10/13/2015 patch notes linked from GW Wiki World Experience page: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2015-10-23#World_vs._World Reduced Edge of the Mists rewards. Reduced event karma, gold, experience, and **world experience by 25%.** The number of Badges of Honor awarded for capturing an objective has been reduced to be consistent with other WvW maps. The chests that spawned on objective capture containing badges and ascended materials have been removed. The Badges of Honor and ascended materials are now dropped by the objective's boss instead. The rewards were nerfed, the WxP was nerfed. Yes, people left before pips. I said that. That was my point. Adding pips to WvW and not EotM has only continued to further make EotM even less attractive in the current state of the game. That is all I was saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gebrechen.5643 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 I don't see how splitting the low population of WvW any further is considered an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 As I wrote in the other thread, many forget that EOTM pulled players away from PvE also, not only WvW. You can't bring those players back to EOTM by adding pips because PvE will still be more rewarding. You can't improve WvW with EOTM when you're only pulling population from WvW and not also PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperWire.4261 Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 It should not take much if any significant amount of time to implement pips into Edge of the Mists. I definitely would not want to halt other WvW development to make this happen, but what we are discussing is a feature already in the game that should be a matter of toggling on/off. This should not take more than an hour at best (likely a few minutes) whereas most of the headache would come from trying to convince stubborn upper management to stop gatekeeping a mode they obviously have such little interest in. It would be nice if they restored the rewards as Moira Shalaar stated above, at this point I understand most of us will take whatever we can get regarding WvW improvements. Although, again adjusting the rewards should be a matter of changing numbers that take minutes, this is not asking for a rework or balance of any kind. Further improvements to WvW should not focus on skill balance as much as more incentive to play WvW. Skill balance has always and will always be an issue that no matter what you do there will be those who do not agree with changes and those that do agree with changes. Usually those that are buffed like the changes and those that were nerfed dislike the changes, but we can all agree that more WvW rewards/incentives to play would be a net positive. When you get deeper into 'fixing' WvW, you need to realize that the people you are asking to fix WvW do not have the same respect for the game mode as most of the players I have met in WvW. Anet staff have not put in anywhere close to the same amount of time in gameplay and will always be outsiders looking in trying to fix something they truly do not and likely will not ever fully understand. The entire WvW population will not agree on much regarding skill balances, keep this in mind when you say X needs nerf or Y needs buff, most of the issue is that players get bored in WvW after having played so long and venture into other areas of Gw2 or to other games. It is often not a problem of skill balance when this happens and maybe returning to old ways such as waypointing in through the repel timer and a few other factors could help band-aid WvW while they work on whatever has been in the works for this long. Edge of the Mist becoming active again will not split the population. Anyone claiming that adding pips to Edge of the Mists will split WvW is approaching this incorrectly. WvW is for WvW, Edge of the Mists is the perfect in between for PvErs that want to ~WvW. If your home WvW population declines due to Edge of the Mists becoming more active, understand that the enemy's population would have similar decline. This would increase the quality of home WvW since those players are the ones often repairing walls and afking for pips or otherwise. PvErs that dungeon/raid/fractal would be joining Edge of the Mists again as well since is it a much lower stress WvW enviroment, these players are not often seen in home WvW unless there is an achievement or event which is extremely rare already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 > @"ViperWire.4261" said: > It should not take much if any significant amount of time to implement pips into Edge of the Mists. I definitely would not want to halt other WvW development to make this happen, but what we are discussing is a feature already in the game that should be a matter of toggling on/off. This should not take more than an hour at best (likely a few minutes) whereas most of the headache would come from trying to convince stubborn upper management to stop gatekeeping a mode they obviously have such little interest in. I think you sorely underestimate the amount of development time. Pips are tied to skirmishes. You get "skirmish rewards" from them. There are several tiers of rewards that are scaled based on a week long 24/7 match up with 84 total skirmishes. EOTM is only 3 hour match ups and has no skirmishes. You cannot just flip a toggle to add the reward system between WvW and EOTM. Maybe you think it would be simple to treat an EOTM match as a skirmish, but then you end up having the issue of what happens when a server is getting low pips in WvW because of third place in a skirmish but first place in EOTM. Now you've just incentivized pulling players away from WvW for pips if you don't add in the development time necessary to avoid something like that. So then pips between WvW and EOTM would have to be separated somehow, but there are no skirmishes in EOTM so pips don't even make sense in it. Pips would have to be restructured as EOTM match rewards? No reward tiers? Or maybe week-long match rewards that only work in EOTM (i.e., you cannot progress your EOTM pips in WvW and visa versa)? > Edge of the Mist becoming active again will not split the population. Anyone claiming that adding pips to Edge of the Mists will split WvW is approaching this incorrectly. WvW is for WvW, Edge of the Mists is the perfect in between for PvErs that want to ~WvW. That approach is also wrong. EOTM is not for PvErs that want to WvW. EOTM never turned a PvE player into a WvW player. Such players will go to WvW if they want to WvW. It has always been WvW that turned a PvE player into a WvW player. EOTM at it's heyday was filled with PvE players who originally found EOTM as a more efficient way of leveling new characters and getting karma and other rewards over PvE maps. This game has much more rewarding PvE now. You cannot draw those players back to EOTM without nerfing PvE rewards or making EOTM more rewarding than PvE. Adding in skirmish rewards will not make EOTM more rewarding than PvE either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperWire.4261 Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 Edge of the Mists needs not to compete with PvE rewards, PvE will always offer better reward efficiency for time investment. In fact, Edge of the Mists does not need to compete with anything else. Rather having pips in Edge of the Mists at the very least gives an outlet of those that are bored of running the very same raids/dungeons/fractals day after day. > EOTM never turned a PvE player into a WvW player. This statement is not so true and there is no evidence provided to support your claim nor is there evidence to support my claim aside from countless whispers/mails received from PvE players that said they never liked WvW until having played Edge of the Mists while I commanded. There is no tangible hard evidence to support either way but to suggest that not a single PvEr has ever turned into a WvW player from Edge of the Mists is quite the claim when you have no way of actually knowing that and likely neither does Anet staff. There will always be negative players both in game and outside of the game that cannot be pleased by anything that is done. These are not the players that Anet needs to cater to as there will never be a victory in doing so; this is mostly why we are in such a state of decay with WvW. Along with this, why would anyone be so overly concerned with their server's WvW rank/war score/tier ranking at this point in the game. It's hard enough to have fun without considering those arbitrary rankings and numbers; this isn't 2014 WvW tournament, you are allowed to have fun however that be. If players do not care about home WvW ranking/score, Edge of the Mists would not be the reason, people are bored of WvW score/ppt in a way that would require restructuring from the foundation which is not likely to happen before the Gw2 servers go offline. The best we can hope for is more options in our WvWing that would allow a less stale approach to the numbers game and this will not be due to skill balances/AoE limits/or most other suggestions that Anet seems to have been looking into. **Edge of the Mists receiving pips as a band-aid until alliances can finally be implemented (if ever) , then go from there and see what can improve the health/quality of WvW.** Variety is the spice of life and I am not here to convince anyone away from their beliefs regarding WvW, but answer this; if pips were a mere toggle that takes 5 seconds to implement, why would you be opposed to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperWire.4261 Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 For what it is worth, I played WvW on release as soon as I was able to under level 10 playing with a bunch of uplevels confused about siege and larger scale fighting at first. I do not recall what level that was but I've been on this game since beta and primarily play WvW. I commanded before anyone on Maguuma could afford a commander icon (even with guild members donating to their guild leaders), I roam, I used to run as a guild group, and I have zerged. I breathe, eat, sleep WvW and on multiple accounts since beta. If you have only a few years of experience with WvW you would not have the first hand knowledge of what worked in the older days of WvW and it would be very unlikely that you would have the same perspective on what works in WvW compared to what does not work. This does not mean that I am 100% right about everything, but it should explain for the different approaches in readers/posters thoughts. I played to have fun in WvW, ppt and fights were never the priority but we made sure they happened, having fun is the priority and will always be. PPT and fights will come when you are having fun and will increase the enjoyment of WvW if you do not have a commander that complains anytime someone rallies an enemy or our server loses something, that is not fun to be barked at in a video game that most people are playing to get away from that aspect in their real life. Nobody wants to be hired as a WvW player and get yelled at when things go bad, all the bad commanders would always do this and I have witnessed too many to keep count; that is why people enjoyed following me more than others. I am and have never been an elitist that only allows guild members or people on voice chat to follow me, I will be the first one in the fight and the first one to revive an ally where it may down me to do so. This mentality is not so common in a game mode that encourages selfish behavior when that is all that you see around you, this is part of a core issue within WvW that Anet will never be able to address because it is a societal issue. The only way to address this is to be less of a negative player, less self-serving, and try to have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > > > > > > eotm solved the issue of population difference per time zone. twas the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really as one side typically dominated the others in numbers. This was apparent in the rare occurrence when opposing sides did happen to collide. > > > > > > > > > > > > well thats how it is in competetion. 1 normally is better than the other 2. you got to have a winner. > > > > > > > > > > Except they dominated because they had more players. That’s what I was getting at when I replied to your post about claiming it solved the population difference by saying “not really”. > > > > > > > > actually it does in a way. it's more fair than 4 vs 40. :) > > > > > > So.. you would be willing to have a single player hotjoin system where you were distributed to the next world which needed a player? > > > > > > No queuing up with squads/parties? Really? > > > > > > Because that would be the only way you could assure ‘balance’ of numbers. > > > > you can queu as squad or party in spvp eotm wvw. where did u get the idea of single player queue? > > > > > > sPvP you can queue as a two person Group. > > Again, you don’t really want true population balance. If that was the case, you would be fine with limiting it to solo join which would place you on the side that had an opening. > > But again, this would effectively kill it and you know it. actually no i dont know. it hasnt happened yet. but i do know if the imbalance is so great, its not worth time doing anything. like eotm, there is a max capacity per match, but there should be a minimum cap relative to the total number of pkayers queing. hence it should always be near each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 > @"ViperWire.4261" said: > Edge of the Mists needs not to compete with PvE rewards, PvE will always offer better reward efficiency for time investment. In fact, Edge of the Mists does not need to compete with anything else. Rather having pips in Edge of the Mists at the very least gives an outlet of those that are bored of running the very same raids/dungeons/fractals day after day. This is a very interesting statement. How do you suppose that EOTM, which already does not compete with PvE rewards, will suddenly become an outlet for those players that are bored of raids/dungeons/fractals just by adding pips? Have you looked at the rewards that come from skirmish chests and not seen how much more efficient it is to get many of those rewards now from PvE for time played since Living Story and PoF releases? > > EOTM never turned a PvE player into a WvW player. > This statement is not so true and there is no evidence provided to support your claim nor is there evidence to support my claim aside from countless whispers/mails received from PvE players that said they never liked WvW until having played Edge of the Mists while I commanded. It is no more provable than your approach, yet none of that matters at all since the main point was about the rewards between PvE and EOTM and where all those EOTM players back in 2014/2015 came from. Then you admit to receiving "countless" messages from PvE players which only supports what I said about the EOTM population being composed of mainly PvE players. So why do you continue to believe that WvW, which is mainly played by WvW players and not PvE players is somehow going to be improved by adding pips to a game area that was primarily PvE? > Along with this, why would anyone be so overly concerned with their server's WvW rank/war score/tier ranking at this point in the game. You seem to have misunderstood what I wrote about pip gain or I'm just not following what point you are trying to make in relation to what I wrote above. The only thing obtainable from pip chests that are unique to WvW and cannot be gained any other way is the WvW skirmish tickets (Memories of Battle can be bought on TP). (Also note that Gift of Battle reward track has nothing to do with pips and can be progressed already in both EOTM and WvW.) The only real effect this has is to pull players who are skin collectors into WvW. Those kinds of players do not necessarily join WvW to play WvW and they won't join EOTM to play EOTM. Their goal is to obtain the unique skins in the most efficient way possible. They will absolutely be swapping between WvW and EOTM depending upon which skirmish/match at that moment will gain them the most pips per tick. How big do you think the population of skin collectors is? > if pips were a mere toggle that takes 5 seconds to implement, why would you be opposed to it? Because it won't improve WvW. Making changes in WvW that target WvW players will. Adding pips to EOTM isn't a band-aid for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 eotm, then, was more popular than wvw because it acted like a shared instance among na or eu. so if you give it pips, it will kill wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyra.4709 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Wanting eotm back is wanting WvW & everything regarding it to inevitably die off and lose more players to casual, ez-mode reward mindset where everything is handed to you on a silver platter without ever facing consequences or incentive to get better at wvw pvp. And don't lie you know many of those eotm mu's were rigged for sole purpose of 3-way ktraining pve carebear time by certain guilds. Did those pugs really learn to fight other players? The state that WvW is in right now I would much rather development assets be funneled into proper WvW stuff than wasted on the rose tinted glasses of players milking the ez ktrain bonanza that was once eotm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 > @"Zephyra.4709" said: > Wanting eotm back is wanting WvW & everything regarding it to inevitably die off and lose more players to casual, ez-mode reward mindset where everything is handed to you on a silver platter without ever facing consequences or incentive to get better at wvw pvp. And don't lie you know many of those eotm mu's were rigged for sole purpose of 3-way ktraining pve carebear time by certain guilds. Did those pugs really learn to fight other players? The state that WvW is in right now I would much rather development assets be funneled into proper WvW stuff than wasted on the rose tinted glasses of players milking the ez ktrain bonanza that was once eotm. to be fair i wouldnt mind if wvw died if eotm is up. why? there are no tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatherbliss.4701 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > we need a king of the hill map. I'd love to see that. During the down state week I put together some scrims on top of the SE ruin on Alpine BL. Super hilarious. Didn't last longer than a few engages but good lord the bags flowed. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 > @"Fatherbliss.4701" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > we need a king of the hill map. > > I'd love to see that. During the down state week I put together some scrims on top of the SE ruin on Alpine BL. Super hilarious. Didn't last longer than a few engages but good lord the bags flowed. lol right? even along the weekend. :) they can test it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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