PvP in GW2 is beginning to feel like the Hasbro board game Battleship

[Tao.5096]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> jesus christ, mesmer has 2 abilities that retarget, 1 is axe that puts him and all clones in melee. and another is RNG 35s cd glorified dodge.

> I can point out to stupid kitten to contradict your point.

> Thief has

> - superior mobility, more swiftness and teleports.

> - more evade uptime, ALOT more.

> - more CC, immob spam, stun spam.

> - blinds depending on the choices.

> - steal grants slow/chill/fear or plasma that gives regen,prot,stab,resistance as extra def tools.

> - much more cleansing then mesmer.

> - stealth

> - daggerstorm kekW -> preety much disort but also movespeed boost, but also aoe dmg but also can cap nodes.

 

Yup, Mesmer has nothing of such

 

Mesmer doesn't have any mobility - oh wait, Mesmer has 6 teleport skills, where 2 are tied to weapons (axe and staff), 2 from Mirage utility skills, 1 elite, and core Portal

Mesmer doesn't have any evade - oh wait, quite nice access to Vigor uptime, variety of good passives tied to dodge roll which makes it defensive and offensive skill. This matters not!

Mesmer doesn't have CCs, etc. - oh wait, couple of skills which give Slow, Cripple, Immob along with mobility skills where I don't even count Swiftness, yes, Mesmer sure can keep a distance which favor it in combat. BUT, that doesn't matter at all.

Mesmer doesn't have blinds - oh wait, Magic Bullet, The Presitge, traited Cry of Frustration, Signet of Midnight, Mirage Ambush, trait Ineptitude. Nah, this is nothing!

Mesmer doesn't have access to slow right? - like above, it doesn't exist!!!11111

Mesmer doesn't have access to protection - Illusionary Membrane, Chaotic Dampening, PU (rng tho), Mirage Mantle, Chaos Armor, and some other rng stuff IS JUST a big NO!

Mesmer doesn't have stealth - The Prestige, Veil, Mass Invisibility, Desperate Decoy, Signet of Midnight, Decoy. YES, those skills don't belong to Mesmer's skill set.

 

I mean, I understand you totally.

 

Mesmer has nothing and needs to be buffed asap, because Mesmer is in position where a cripple is trying to win 100m sprint with Usain Bolt.

 

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

 

 

 

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Tao.5096" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > jesus christ, mesmer has 2 abilities that retarget, 1 is axe that puts him and all clones in melee. and another is RNG 35s cd glorified dodge.

> > I can point out to stupid kitten to contradict your point.

> > Thief has

> > - superior mobility, more swiftness and teleports.

> > - more evade uptime, ALOT more.

> > - more CC, immob spam, stun spam.

> > - blinds depending on the choices.

> > - steal grants slow/chill/fear or plasma that gives regen,prot,stab,resistance as extra def tools.

> > - much more cleansing then mesmer.

> > - stealth

> > - daggerstorm kekW -> preety much disort but also movespeed boost, but also aoe dmg but also can cap nodes.

>

> Yup, Mesmer has nothing of such

>

> Mesmer doesn't have any mobility - oh wait, Mesmer has 6 teleport skills, where 2 are tied to weapons (axe and staff), 2 from Mirage utility skills, 1 elite, and core Portal

> Mesmer doesn't have any evade - oh wait, quite nice access to Vigor uptime, variety of good passives tied to dodge roll which makes it defensive and offensive skill. This matters not!

> Mesmer doesn't have CCs, etc. - oh wait, couple of skills which give Slow, Cripple, Immob along with mobility skills where I don't even count Swiftness, yes, Mesmer sure can keep a distance which favor it in combat. BUT, that doesn't matter at all.

> Mesmer doesn't have blinds - oh wait, Magic Bullet, The Presitge, traited Cry of Frustration, Signet of Midnight, Mirage Ambush, trait Ineptitude. Nah, this is nothing!

> Mesmer doesn't have access to slow right? - like above, it doesn't exist!!!11111

> Mesmer doesn't have access to protection - Illusionary Membrane, Chaotic Dampening, PU (rng tho), Mirage Mantle, Chaos Armor, and some other rng stuff IS JUST a big NO!

> Mesmer doesn't have stealth - The Prestige, Veil, Mass Invisibility, Desperate Decoy, Signet of Midnight, Decoy. YES, those skills don't belong to Mesmer's skill set.

>

> I mean, I understand you totally.

>

> Mesmer has nothing and needs to be buffed asap, because Mesmer is in position where a cripple is trying to win 100m sprint with Usain Bolt.

>

> (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

>

>

>

>

 

thief runs faster

thief teleports more

thief cleanses more

then has better CC

thief has better evade uptime

alot of typing to prove nothing and make you look...

[Dantheman.3589]

I feel like thief can have super good personal stealth via shadow arts or maybe playing with bound, but the team wide stealth isn’t super huge as not many people are gonna stealth besides at the start or when ganking. But I still kind of agree with this since now it seems like half the team can help stealth especially mesmers mass invis. Teams at the start can have like 20 secs of invis and rotate where ever they so choose and maybe stealth up again, which I sometimes notice making matches way different but it seems a stretch to say every match...

[Eddbopkins.2630]

The biggest grip for me atm is teleports. There's to many classes that have them. Most meta teams these days will have a rev, thf, gaurd, mes, and something else. 4 classes all capable of constant teleporting. Just ruins the combat for me. When I play what I like, fa ele, warrior it just to much porting around to be anything other then frustrating.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> I feel like thief can have super good personal stealth via shadow arts or maybe playing with bound, but the team wide stealth isn’t super huge as not many people are gonna stealth besides at the start or when ganking. But I still kind of agree with this since now it seems like half the team can help stealth especially mesmers mass invis. Teams at the start can have like 20 secs of invis and rotate where ever they so choose and maybe stealth up again, which I sometimes notice making matches way different but it seems a stretch to say every match...

 

no need for shadow arts, grab https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Screen as S/P thief and you have 70%+ stealth uptime if you really want.

smoke screen alone is like 5 or 6 blasts for 3s each, for grand total of 15-18s AoE stealth

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > Mesmers having invisibility makes more sense thematically than thieves having invisibility.

> > > >

> > > > for what game? it really doesn't lol.

> > >

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > Mesmers having invisibility makes more sense thematically than thieves having invisibility.

> > > > >

> > > > > for what game? it really doesn't lol.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah lmao cuz hes a mesmer main it somehow does. Cuz u kno the ports,portals,clones and phantasm arnt enough for class identity.

> > >

> > > He's talking about the difference between "hiding" & "move silently" as skills, vs. actual "invisibiliy" as a spell. In dungeons & dragons as example, a thief or rogue is sneaky because they use physical skills in hiding & moving silently, which you have to roll spot & listen checks against, which are also physical based skills. There is no limit to the times per day that they can use these skills.

> > >

> > > Invisibility on the other hand, is an actual spell that regardless of how high your spot check is, a player cannot see through invisibility without a spell or spell-like ability or supernatural quality to do so. At best a player can roll a spot check to see if the invisible player is walking across a sandy floor leaving foot prints as he goes by, but the player still cannot see through the invisibility. He could also roll a listen check to try and hear where the invisible player is at, but he still can't actually see the invisible opponent. The invisibility will grant many combat bonuses, even if a player knows the exact position that the invisible opponent is standing in. Imagine being in a boxing ring and trying to fist fight an invisible opponent that you know is standing directly in front of you. Invisibility is also limited in use per day, depending on how many timers per day the caster has/is allowed to prepare the spell, which is not often at all unless you're playing in a very high leveled epic campaign. Invisibility is a very powerful effect and only lasts a matter of rounds or minutes.

> > >

> > > I think mort is making the point that stealth in GW2 functions more like invisibility as a popular table top rpg spell which is cast by wizard classes, than the skill hide which is used by rogues & thief classes.

> > >

> > > in table top rpgs that fundamental difference is very real.

> >

> > This.

>

> Lmao u serious?

> This isnt a table top d&d game where u can role a dice and say "ohhhh the thief quietly sneaks up and strikes its opponent from behind for a fatal backstab".

> This is a mmo video game where any sneak or stealth would be useless unless it's a cloak like predator style stealth or invisibility cuz oh I donno u can see visual queues in video games lol. Huge difference.

> I could imagine a squishy rogue in a mmo crouching and sneaking up behind a player lmao oh so sneaky lol u would never get a stealth hit off unless ur opponent is afk. Or a thief standing in a shadowed area still visible thinking shhhhh they'll never see me coming lol. Then again I'm guessing that is what most of the community would prefer and think is balanced lol

 

Lol

 

You asked why mesmers even have stealth, I pointed out Invisiblity is one of the most defining aspects of what an illusionist does in fantasy, and make a joke about thief Invisiblity making far less sense than mesmer Invisiblity because it's just how EverQuest and WoW developers decided on trying to adapt the idea of thieves and rogues sneaking around corners and thieves don't traditionally have true Invisiblity. And you're SO bent out of shape about it my dude.

 

Calm down my dude. I don't actually think thieves should lose stealth, unlike what you seriously suggested about mesmer.

[Fueki.4753]

In my opinion, all non-Thieves should loss access to stealth, other than the few Elite Skills that provide it.

This includes the Rune of the Trapper to be either reworked or removed.

And Thieves should have their up time cut by 50% to 80%.

 

Or completely rework Stealth so it doesn't turn players invisible, but just give them a smokey (or pink/purple if Stealth comes from Mesmer) silhouette instead, that still retains access to "Stealth" Attacks and is not targettable.

[Curennos.9307]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> In my opinion, all non-Thieves should loss access to stealth, other than the few Elite Skills that provide it.

> This includes the Rune of the Trapper to be either reworked or removed.

> And Thieves should have their up time cut by 50% to 80%.

>

> Or completely rework Stealth so it doesn't turn players invisible, but just give them a smokey (or pink/purple if Stealth comes from Mesmer) silhouette instead, that still retains access to "Stealth" Attacks and is not targettable.

 

I've always wondered why anet has repeatedly neglected to make some sort of 'lesser stealth' that doesn't hide the player but still gives them on-stealth effects. Like DE's stealth on dodge trait. Why is this 1 sec of stealth? Why anet. Why.

 

Not that I agree all stealth should be this way, but I def think anet has sprinkled stealth around far too much when there was a much easier, balanced option available. Wonder if there's some sort of technical difficulty with this.