Nerf WvW Downstate

[LetoII.3782]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > > We got mount stomps so current downstate is ok.

> > >

> > > In smallscale favors the bigger group, that still has someone mounted, waiting for downs to stomp.

> >

> > Why do you assume that it is only the bigger group with someone mounted? The mount stomp has been a boon for the smaller group. It lets them chip away at numbers faster and less need to sustain after an initial bomb so as not to have the downs rally off your own players who take more damage from bigger groups.

 

 

>

> edit: now that i thought about it under the shower, the difference is actually if you fight open field, or inside an objective

> in the open field mount stomp will give the bigger group even more of an advantage, because of already mentioned reasons.

 

I would argue the exact opposite.

The smaller group cannot stand it's ground, the blob can always finish downstates by standing on them. Same goes for a res, once a friendly downstate is inside the boonball, the chance of stomping is near zero.

 

Mount stomp offers a chance to circumvent all the second chances a blob gets, while doing nothing to the smaller group that wasn't going to happen anyways.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > So yeah, I still don't see your point where mount stompers only work for one side, but not for the other.

> > >

> > > Because that wasn't a point I was making. That was your point after misreading.

> > >

> > > Again: "I was responding to someone who implied that being on a mount means they aren't being used." Even earlier: "Why do you assume that it is only the bigger group with someone mounted?" And: "My argument is that being on a mount isn't separate from the idea of being used or needed and that has nothing to do with whether the side is outnumbered or not."

> >

> > And all of that still assumes that the outnumbered side can go toe-to-toe while being outnumbered and having some people not taking part in the combat, because they're waiting on mounts to stomp (just like the other side can be doing). And yes, they are "throw away" players, because they're not actively fighting until they have a chance to go in for a stomp. How is this false? It's like you assume outnumbered side has the mount stomps, but outnumbering one somehow doesn't (because that's the only way it could be a "boon to the smaller group", like you've claimed).

>

> Right. Remember I said if the outnumbered side is getting one-pushed and not generating downs, that isn't because they've reserved one or two guys as mount stompers. They're either that outnumbered or unskilled/uncoordinated (can't go toe-to-toe). The mount stompers aren't going to solve that issue for them.

 

Ok, true.

 

That said, I still think downstate supports wrong side of the fight and mountstomp isn't a buff to outnumebered side. If you think similarly, then I have nothing to discuss here and I clearly misunderstood what you've meant :p

[Katrina.8702]

I dunno I have somewhat self-designated myself as a mount stomper for the last 6 months, and I feel like I have contributed countless number of times to turn the tide of a battle in outnumbered fights with timely stomps after stomps. To me everything is still too situational with many variables so you just can't say for sure that the mount stomp favors x or y in a given scenario.

 

What I love about the mount stomp is that now the smaller group has a much greater chance (or even a slightest chance) to immediately finish off the downed targets of a blob/comped groups, whereas in the past you would helplessly watch them instantly get rezzed especially with all the FBs and Scrappers flying around.

 

Yeah so you can nerf downstate/rezz mechanic but before doing that, do not nerf/remove mount stomp which offers a counter atm.

[anduriell.6280]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > Anet only need to give the downstate the same treatment of the defeated(fully dead). Make it so so when the player is in combat the action to ress is not available.

> > It does keep the functionality of the downstate skills and traits, still need the downed player to actually do something a most downed skills won't fully ressucitate. Downed state is cool in PvE there is no place for it in a PvP game mode.

> >

> > Also balance those situations where you are fighting 1vX and you can't get your rewards because the other 2 enemies keep resssing.

> >

> > So if you are running and you get oneshot, because your friends are not in combat they can ress you. But in those cases where 3 pick a fight against 1 and that one is good enough to defeat somebody, that should guarantee the opportunity to earn the rewards.

> It also invalidates the entire point of downstate, which is that players are supposed to assist each other and feel helpful. If you cant res in combat, you cant do kitten and it *heavily* bias classes with skills that still affect/heal downed (such as firebrands, which of course need all the help they can get *the poor weak bastards*).

 

How you phrase it seems you are looking for the PvE experience in a PvP gamemode. If the player like to play support and ress players it should be an active choice from that player.

Now there is no sacrifice or conscious choice involved in being able to bring back defeated allies while in combat and that doesn't have a place in any PvP game.

 

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> Mount stomp offers a chance to circumvent all the second chances a blob gets, while doing nothing to the smaller group that wasn't going to happen anyways.

 

That sounds familiar, stealth skill, then we get reveal, after that it came the remove reveal, and now we are at the point of a reveal which is not affected by the removal.

So the insta-stomp was introduced with the same mindset. When this things Begin to happen is a sign of something is wrong and needs fixing.

 

Why not fixing the core problem and instead keep going in circles?