Sobx.1758 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > There is nothing skillfull about this instant fear. > > > Objectively, the cast time added will mainly remove a counter to hard CC from the necromancer's kit. Because the real value of an instant skill is that you can use it through a stun. I believe it's skillfull to use such a skill to prevent a player from hitting my toon when my toon is under the effect of a CC. You're welcome to try to change my mind. > > > > Objectively, there's nothing skillfull about insta-casting skills through hard cc. You're welcome to try to change my mind. > > Then remove all stun break from the game, no let's say put a cast time on all instant skills of the game. I guess that's the matter of opinion, but for me there's a difference between a stunbreak and an instant-cast ranged long duration hard cc that can be used through hard cc. Have you thought about the fact that it might simply not be the intended use of that skill, at which point comparing it to stunbreaks doesn't exactly apply? > Edit: and while you're at it, remove all instant skills (shouts, venom, comands, thief's signets, stances included), remove the necromancer's shroud because it's instant, remove guardian's vitues, mesmer's shatter, thief's steal... etc. I don't see how this relates to what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flumek.9043 Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > There is nothing skillfull about this instant fear. > > Objectively, the cast time added will mainly remove a counter to hard CC from the necromancer's kit. Because the real value of an instant skill is that you can use it through a stun. I believe it's skillfull to use such a skill to prevent a player from hitting my toon when my toon is under the effect of a CC. You're welcome to try to change my mind. > > Objectively, there's nothing skillfull about insta-casting skills through hard cc. You're welcome to try to change my mind. Its not about landing a hit, its when you use it. In dooms case the most important part is what comes AFTER the ability. I mean gw2 is not a shooter and has autoaim, and all aoes are now big, theres no more 120 sized ones left which were actually impossible to land long range... I really feel like im talking to a beginner casual gamer about game design and high tier flow. The customer says he wants the truth, but in reality h cant handle the truth and only wants to chase the carrot.... I wont respond to you as it would be a wall of text to explain, lots wrong and simple beginner arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 > @"Flumek.9043" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > There is nothing skillfull about this instant fear. > > > Objectively, the cast time added will mainly remove a counter to hard CC from the necromancer's kit. Because the real value of an instant skill is that you can use it through a stun. I believe it's skillfull to use such a skill to prevent a player from hitting my toon when my toon is under the effect of a CC. You're welcome to try to change my mind. > > > > Objectively, there's nothing skillfull about insta-casting skills through hard cc. You're welcome to try to change my mind. > > Its not about landing a hit, its when you use it. > In dooms case the most important part is what comes AFTER the ability. How exactly is this an answer to what I wrote? Where did I write anything about something being hard to land as if it was a shooter game? > I really feel like im talking to a beginner casual gamer about game design and high tier flow. Hilarious. Maybe your feeling would be different if you didn't answer to something I never wrote. > The customer says he wants the truth, but in reality h cant handle the truth and only wants to chase the carrot.... Again, WHAT are you even talking about right now? :D > I wont respond to you as it would be a wall of text to explain, lots wrong and simple beginner arguments. You didn't respond in the first place, so I'm not sure why it's suddenly worth mentioning now other than you trying to state that "mimimimi doesn't matter what you say, I know better, you don't, bai". I can't see any other reason, but whatever suits you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > There is nothing skillfull about this instant fear. > > > > Objectively, the cast time added will mainly remove a counter to hard CC from the necromancer's kit. Because the real value of an instant skill is that you can use it through a stun. I believe it's skillfull to use such a skill to prevent a player from hitting my toon when my toon is under the effect of a CC. You're welcome to try to change my mind. > > > > > > Objectively, there's nothing skillfull about insta-casting skills through hard cc. You're welcome to try to change my mind. > > > > Then remove all stun break from the game, no let's say put a cast time on all instant skills of the game. > > I guess that's the matter of opinion, but for me there's a difference between a stunbreak and an instant-cast ranged long duration hard cc that can be used through hard cc. Have you thought about the fact that it might simply not be the intended use of that skill, at which point comparing it to stunbreaks doesn't exactly apply? There definetly is a difference between a stunbreak, and instant cast skills. But doom is still a single target spell, and one of the only spells without casttime. Yet other classes have many more no casttime skills that also have similar yet even stronger effects (steal from thief for example) There's traits that make the skill better, can even make it a damaging skill (same goes for thief) But that's what traits are supposed to do. Improve gameplay. Imagine casttime on soon, but all fear traits taken away from necro. Boone would ever use this skill again. You can't say the same thing for thief, if you take away all steal-traits. It would still be used. And you have to keep in mind, that other classes can make some even bigger cc skills an instant cast as well. Take thief or guard for example: Guard can precast for example hammer 4 or 5. Thief can precast basilisk venom and steal to it's target (1,5s stun) with 1200 range that doesn't need LoS With the same range, necro would only do 2 seconds of fear on single target with doom and needs LoS. And while you're stunned you can only use a stunbreak to get out (there's not many skills that can break an allies stun so let's ignore that) Fear can be preemptively countered by stability (same goes for stuns) and resistance + allies can easily cleanse you as every class has Access to allied Condi cleanses, and you can use a stunbreak. So there's two more counters to fear than to "real" hard CC's. And you also have to use 2 traits to specifically make this skill and maybe two others on necro good. There's almost no other build/class, that needs to invest 2 traits to make so few skills of your kit good. Most skills are just good for themselves. Making the excuse of it not being intended would mean that the balance team didn't do their job for a very long time, as this skills stayed the same since I joined the game almost 5 years ago. And this skill needs much more skillful decisions as you might think. You have to choose if you want the skill to do damage, or if you want to prevent someone to deal heavy damage to you after they cc'd you. And that's a key aspect of core necro, that has now no stability access other than well of power (1stack stability meme) and the two regular dodges that every class has to prevent it being cc'd. > > > Edit: and while you're at it, remove all instant skills (shouts, venom, comands, thief's signets, stances included), remove the necromancer's shroud because it's instant, remove guardian's vitues, mesmer's shatter, thief's steal... etc. > > I don't see how this relates to what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Idk how you can make assumptions on necro being bad, a balance patch like this isn't technically 100% balancing, its just creating a new baseline for what skills can and can't do, after they see what these changes have done to each class they have said they will either buff or nerf, depending on what the issue is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > Edit: and while you're at it, remove all instant skills (shouts, venom, comands, thief's signets, stances included), remove the necromancer's shroud because it's instant, remove guardian's vitues, mesmer's shatter, thief's steal... etc. > > I don't see how this relates to what I said. Those skills are instant and thus can be cast through hard CC. > @"Sobx.1758" said: > Objectively, there's nothing skillfull about insta-casting skills through hard cc. You're welcome to try to change my mind. How could it not be related to what you said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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