Are we getting some awesome buffs next?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > > Can't wait to see how (ridiculously) Thief gets buffed next!

> >

> > When/how did the thief get "ridiculously buffed" last time that you spew this nonsense again?

>

> It's been ridiculously buffed since it was introduced to the game.

 

Lol u new? It and mesmer are prob the least buffed/most nerfed classes thru games history. U trolling? Lol.

I guess the fact u don't like them makes them most buffed right? Haha

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > That not how undoing power creep works.

> > Expect more nerfs

>

> It's like trying to improve the stadium seating in a crowded theatre. ANET pulled the fire alarm and told everyone to leave, and now with an empty room, they can inspect the seats individually and see which ones sit too high (need nerfs) and which ones were built too low (need buffs). Pre-patch there were lots of skills/traits that under performed, mainly because many others over performed by comparison, but it is very possible in the current state ANET will find some of those skills / traits we never used, and decide they need to be buffed to meet their current vision for balance.

 

As if core necro and Condi rev was such a huge problem pre-patch?

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > That not how undoing power creep works.

> > > Expect more nerfs

> >

> > It's like trying to improve the stadium seating in a crowded theatre. ANET pulled the fire alarm and told everyone to leave, and now with an empty room, they can inspect the seats individually and see which ones sit too high (need nerfs) and which ones were built too low (need buffs). Pre-patch there were lots of skills/traits that under performed, mainly because many others over performed by comparison, but it is very possible in the current state ANET will find some of those skills / traits we never used, and decide they need to be buffed to meet their current vision for balance.

>

> As if core necro and Condi rev was such a huge problem pre-patch?

 

No they weren't, and that's the point.

 

Core Necro was easy meat pre-patch as any capable power build would burst them down + kite through their shroud. But now that damage, healing and condition cleanse has been drastically reduced, is it all a surprise that the profession with 2 life bars and the Carapace mechanic is outlasting everyone?

 

And that is exactly why it is standing out. What ANET does now remains to be seen: do they increase power damage to compensate, lower the effectiveness of shroud or carapace, I don't know. They made some changes in sPvP to address issues mainly in 2v2. But Carapace in itself is too powerful in a small scale engagement, but nobody really saw that because Necros were getting deleted by Tower Rangers or Mesmer Shatters (which isn't happening as often), and few players bothered with Core, opting instead for the easy burst of Reaper or the stock boon corrupt/barrier of Scourge. I remember people mocking the Death Magic rework when it came out...oh how opinions have changed, right?

 

For Rev, Condi Rev was a force to be reckoned with in small engagements pre-patch, but most players went with Sw/Sw Rev for roaming or Hammer Rev for zergs. Then we got the corruption and devastation traitline rework and Hammer Rev had its weapon cooldowns massively increased, now all of a sudden Condi Rev is the preferred choice.

 

If ANET had done the smart thing, and just reduced the damage of CoR (Hammer 2) rather than almost tripling its cooldown, Hammer Rev would see more play today, but now that Condi Rev is here, we can see the totally broken interaction between True Nature - Demon + Pain Absorption, which wasn't changed in the patch, but few if any played Condi Herald prior to the patch because Power Herald was the meta.

[TheGrimm.5624]

I know they won't share but it would be nice to understand which items they are looking at next and some idea about what metrics they are using.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> If ANET had done the smart thing, and just reduced the damage of CoR (Hammer 2) rather than almost tripling its cooldown

 

Will go a step further, was just breaking the targeting mechanic on CoR enough by itself with the more obvious tell.

 

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > > Can't wait to see how (ridiculously) Thief gets buffed next!

> >

> > When/how did the thief get "ridiculously buffed" last time that you spew this nonsense again?

>

> It's been ridiculously buffed since it was introduced to the game.

 

So you admit it wasn't, clear. Good job lying again to push your silly agenda. :)

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > If ANET had done the smart thing, and just reduced the damage of CoR (Hammer 2) rather than almost tripling its cooldown

>

> Will go a step further, was just breaking the targeting mechanic on CoR enough by itself with the more obvious tell.

>

 

Well, many people 'claim' that Hammer Rev overperformed pre-patch, which it technically did, but in reality, it didn't, as it was inline with all the other overperforming builds players used; when a good chunk of the builds played are OP, they cease to be OP and instead form a baseline, while everything else is now just underperforming.

 

Now that the nerfs have been issued, we see Hammer Rev gets hardly any play. Does this mean Power Herald and/or the Rev Hammer is underperforming? We can't make that determination yet, even if the majority of Revs have moved to Condi Rene or Condi Herald, since maybe that just means Condi Rev is overperforming?

 

Was a 4sec CoR hitting for 15-16k OP? Not when a mesmer shatter, DJ, Rapid Fire, or a multitude of other abilities could all yield the same or higher output. Today after the big patch, it sure as kitten would be OP and would stick out like a sore thumb, and those are the types of red flags ANET was hoping to spot.

 

I mean, remember the Arc Divider rework? Even in the super-bursty meta we had, it didn't take long for ANET to see that ability was overtuned, and they reacted within a month to address that.

 

I stopped playing Hammer Rev solely because it wasn't fun having to auto-attack for 9 seconds between CoRs. It has nothing to do with damage output, etc, but rather that's a boring rotation to have to endure, so I don't. Hopefully ANET will see the light and return it's CD back to 4 seconds and nerf the damage. I'd rather hit someone for 3500 damage every 4 seconds than for 10,000 damage every 10, but those are my personal feelings and aren't relevant beyond that.

 

So at the risk of sounding like a broken record (something most of you are likely too young to have ever seen), we are in a wait and see mode as ANET moves from red flag to red flag, and they have to make the call on whether those flags are an issue that needs addressing, or are only an issue by comparison to other factors at play. Core Necro was not an issue pre-patch, but today, eventhough it got nerfs like everyone else, it tops the list of professions I would avoid taking on 1v1. Does that mean Core Necro is too strong or that everyone else / just me is too weak? That's what ANET is busy figuring out.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > > That not how undoing power creep works.

> > > > Expect more nerfs

> > >

> > > It's like trying to improve the stadium seating in a crowded theatre. ANET pulled the fire alarm and told everyone to leave, and now with an empty room, they can inspect the seats individually and see which ones sit too high (need nerfs) and which ones were built too low (need buffs). Pre-patch there were lots of skills/traits that under performed, mainly because many others over performed by comparison, but it is very possible in the current state ANET will find some of those skills / traits we never used, and decide they need to be buffed to meet their current vision for balance.

> >

> > As if core necro and Condi rev was such a huge problem pre-patch?

>

> No they weren't, and that's the point.

>

> Core Necro was easy meat pre-patch as any capable power build would burst them down + kite through their shroud. But now that damage, healing and condition cleanse has been drastically reduced, is it all a surprise that the profession with 2 life bars and the Carapace mechanic is outlasting everyone?

>

> And that is exactly why it is standing out. What ANET does now remains to be seen: do they increase power damage to compensate, lower the effectiveness of shroud or carapace, I don't know. They made some changes in sPvP to address issues mainly in 2v2. But Carapace in itself is too powerful in a small scale engagement, but nobody really saw that because Necros were getting deleted by Tower Rangers or Mesmer Shatters (which isn't happening as often), and few players bothered with Core, opting instead for the easy burst of Reaper or the stock boon corrupt/barrier of Scourge. I remember people mocking the Death Magic rework when it came out...oh how opinions have changed, right?

>

> For Rev, Condi Rev was a force to be reckoned with in small engagements pre-patch, but most players went with Sw/Sw Rev for roaming or Hammer Rev for zergs. Then we got the corruption and devastation traitline rework and Hammer Rev had its weapon cooldowns massively increased, now all of a sudden Condi Rev is the preferred choice.

>

> If ANET had done the smart thing, and just reduced the damage of CoR (Hammer 2) rather than almost tripling its cooldown, Hammer Rev would see more play today, but now that Condi Rev is here, we can see the totally broken interaction between True Nature - Demon + Pain Absorption, which wasn't changed in the patch, but few if any played Condi Herald prior to the patch because Power Herald was the meta.

 

Idk how your thought process is following the logic you’ve setup for yourself there but it should seem obvious that core necro wasn’t a problem before patch because there were thing that existed that could counter and defeat it...the mechanics of it were JUST FINE.

 

Now that damage got removed of course tank / condi based build setups would become “OP” but this isn’t a consequence of the build design...it’s the consequence of balance implementation.

 

It’s like we are in a Rock Paper Scissors game you just removed scissors from viability..so what is gonna be OP? Paper obviously....but that’s not because paper was OP by design...it’s because you removed scissors.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

>

> Idk how your thought process is following the logic you’ve setup for yourself there but it should seem obvious that core necro wasn’t a problem before patch because there were thing that existed that could counter and defeat it...the mechanics of it were JUST FINE.

>

 

Which. Is. Exactly. What. I. Said.

 

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> Now that damage got removed of course tank / condi based build setups would become “OP” but this isn’t a consequence of the build design...it’s the consequence of balance implementation.

>

> It’s like we are in a Rock Paper Scissors game you just removed scissors from viability..so what is gonna be OP? Paper obviously....but that’s not because paper was OP by design...it’s because you removed scissors.

 

No. Rock, Paper and Scissors were all nerfed in equal measure. Why is Scissors now no longer viable and Paper is OP? Because of build design. Now ANET can spot these issues (I suppose) more clearly than before, and adjust coefficients, cooldowns, durations, mechanics, etc to level things out.

 

You are correct that we need comparisons in order to evaluate. It's all well and fine for you to say that Scissors kept Paper in check, until as Scissors you run into nothing but Rock all day every day. What would your advice be then? Play Paper? (just as helpful as git gud or jUsT dOdGe)

 

You talk like the balancing is over or something... we're only in stage 1, as I've said many times, the current game is in an unfinished state. What is ANET's vision for balance? Ask them.

 

[Biermeister.4678]

Still need to adjust Rangers 1800 to 2000 units is watching too far for a 1200 weapon

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> >

> > Idk how your thought process is following the logic you’ve setup for yourself there but it should seem obvious that core necro wasn’t a problem before patch because there were thing that existed that could counter and defeat it...the mechanics of it were JUST FINE.

> >

>

> Which. Is. Exactly. What. I. Said.

>

> > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> > Now that damage got removed of course tank / condi based build setups would become “OP” but this isn’t a consequence of the build design...it’s the consequence of balance implementation.

> >

> > It’s like we are in a Rock Paper Scissors game you just removed scissors from viability..so what is gonna be OP? Paper obviously....but that’s not because paper was OP by design...it’s because you removed scissors.

>

> No. Rock, Paper and Scissors were all nerfed in equal measure. Why is Scissors now no longer viable and Paper is OP? Because of build design. Now ANET can spot these issues (I suppose) more clearly than before, and adjust coefficients, cooldowns, durations, mechanics, etc to level things out.

>

> You are correct that we need comparisons in order to evaluate. It's all well and fine for you to say that Scissors kept Paper in check, until as Scissors you run into nothing but Rock all day every day. What would your advice be then? Play Paper? (just as helpful as git gud or jUsT dOdGe)

>

> You talk like the balancing is over or something... we're only in stage 1, as I've said many times, the current game is in an unfinished state. What is ANET's vision for balance? Ask them.

>

 

you can never truly equalize things that are different. Just because you standardize coefficients doesn’t mean that earth staff auto on ele is going to be as balanced as dagger auto on thief.

 

In order to achieve “perfect” balance, they must be equal in every way, which is an impossible task. In order to make dagger auto balanced with the earth auto, they must become the same skill. The moment you introduce a difference between the two, they will become imbalanced.

 

Let’s say the triangle is Power, Condi, and Sustain(toughness/vitality)

 

Buff power, and sustain gets weakened. Buff sustain and power/condi become weaker. Nerf sustain and power and condo become stronger again...it’s a never ending cycle until all the things that make them different become the same. This is again the indicator that’s it’s not builds, is the philosophy of trying to balance them that’s faulty.