shadowpass.4236 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 [Clip 1]( ) [Clip 2]( ) [Clip 3]( ) [Clip 4]( ) [Clip 5]( ) [Clip 6]( ) [Clip 7]( ) <- Grimjack countering GS through movement as well [Clip 8]( ) [Clip 9]( ) <- Shutting ranger down in an open field Accidentally had myself muted on stream at the start for 2-3 clips but you can hear me talk on most of them. Will upload more from my streams as I find them. This is why ranger isn't good competitively. It is extremely easy to shut down the damage from this class. The same attacks you see these players use are the exact same ones the good rangers throw at you. However, by using reaction time to avoid Point Blank Shot, LoS to counter longbow damage, and movement to counter pets, greatsword, and merge skills, you can nullify almost all of the damage a ranger throws at you without having to burn more than a dodge or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: >... a dodge **or two.** In before the mirage one dodge memes. In all seriousness I don’t think ranger needs a huge nerf. Maybe a couple of places...but I’d rather see either a few moderate increases in a couple of places because overall damage and cleave have clearly underperformed, or a a continued nerf to sustain and res ability. Stability could also use a bit of a boost generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozame.4098 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Is this a troll or something? ... You use ranger that one shots ranger to show ranger is fine.... Clip 7, yes, grim jack simply ran away..... He just ran away... Fair enough, good strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > Is this a troll or something? > > ... You use ranger that one shots ranger to show ranger is fine.... > > Clip 7, yes, grim jack simply ran away..... He just ran away... Fair enough, good strategy. Dodge PBS, LoS projectiles, use movement to counter pets, GS, and merge skills. Was there anything I just listed that can't be done on every other other classes besides ranger? You're making it sound like the clips I linked only worked because I used ranger-specific skills to kill another ranger. But that's not relevant at all. The videos show the same few ways to completely nullify the damage from rangers without having to do much more than dodge once and hold W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernRedStar.3054 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 _Everyone_ knows how to counter ranger's telegraphed burst rotations. There's nothing to complain about, save for Bambi being a bit too strong on its own. Ranger's not an issue at the moment. That's all L2P-issues, posed by players who are directly benefitting from this patch and its lowered skill floor and cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozame.4098 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > Is this a troll or something? > > > > ... You use ranger that one shots ranger to show ranger is fine.... > > > > Clip 7, yes, grim jack simply ran away..... He just ran away... Fair enough, good strategy. > > Dodge PBS, LoS projectiles, use movement to counter pets, GS, and merge skills. > > Was there anything I just listed that can't be done on every other other classes besides ranger? > > You're making it sound like the clips I linked only worked because I used ranger-specific skills to kill another ranger. But that's not relevant at all. The videos show the same few ways to completely nullify the damage from rangers without having to do much more than dodge once and hold W. It could also be that SLB is just learning and not good at it. Also, clip 7 is meaningless. Also, not many classes have a 4.75 sec cd on 6-7 dmg skill... Or two set of offensive weapons. Oh, sorry, I think that's only ranger.... ANd I am not saying that ranger is good or bad. I am just saying your evidence here is not conclusive. Also, from a statistical point of view, at lest clip 1-3, you are farming the same Slb in the same game? So, your INDEPENDENT observations are less than 9... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexanima.7851 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > Is this a troll or something? > > > > ... You use ranger that one shots ranger to show ranger is fine.... > > > > Clip 7, yes, grim jack simply ran away..... He just ran away... Fair enough, good strategy. > > Dodge PBS, LoS projectiles, use movement to counter pets, GS, and merge skills. > > Was there anything I just listed that can't be done on every other other classes besides ranger? Dodges are not infinite, LoS isn't always possible, not every profession can out move ranger. Ranger isn't as ridiculous when you're in a 1v1 situation and not worried too much about an objective. They are fairly predictable and what you suggested will work most the time. Granted you probably wont kill them unless you have some sort of ranged pressure but surviving is very do-able. It's when they +1 or jump you in a team fight their burst becomes an issue. When you get PBS+Rapid+Smokescale assult+maul+hilt+maul in a very short span (due to quickness) from off screen when you're fighting other people there isn't much to be done about it except die. I'm not saying you **cant** survive it but most the time you'll get deleted without much time to react. Its like they are doing what the thief should do, but better. Builds like this are squishy, yeah, but they are not looking for 1v1's. Glass ranger builds are rotating quickly between points and outnumbering and are way to effective at it. Even if they do get focused after bursting they have plenty of survival options. If I where to suggest anything it would be to shave their burst damage from stacking modifiers and increase their sustained damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > Is this a troll or something? > > > > > > ... You use ranger that one shots ranger to show ranger is fine.... > > > > > > Clip 7, yes, grim jack simply ran away..... He just ran away... Fair enough, good strategy. > > > > Dodge PBS, LoS projectiles, use movement to counter pets, GS, and merge skills. > > > > Was there anything I just listed that can't be done on every other other classes besides ranger? > > > > You're making it sound like the clips I linked only worked because I used ranger-specific skills to kill another ranger. But that's not relevant at all. The videos show the same few ways to completely nullify the damage from rangers without having to do much more than dodge once and hold W. > > It could also be that SLB is just learning and not good at it. Also, clip 7 is meaningless. Also, not many classes have a 4.75 sec cd on 6-7 dmg skill... Or two set of offensive weapons. Oh, sorry, I think that's only ranger.... > ANd I am not saying that ranger is good or bad. I am just saying your evidence here is not conclusive. Also, from a statistical point of view, at lest clip 1-3, you are farming the same Slb in the same game? So, your INDEPENDENT observations are less than 9... [10k True Shot on Maruaders DH]( ) I can link one for other classes too if you'd like. And no, clip 7 is exactly what good players do vs. ranger. Grim just did exactly what I do vs. greatsword rangers and simply run in the opposite direction so none of the attacks even have a chance at connecting. So that's a pretty damn good example of what I've been trying to tell people. You can say "it's meaningless" all you want but in reality, it's exactly how you counter rangers in melee. Also, you should read my OP again. Specifically: This is why ranger isn't good competitively. It is extremely easy to shut down the damage from this class. **The same attacks you see these players use are the exact same ones the good rangers throw at you.** However, by using reaction time to avoid Point Blank Shot, LoS to counter longbow damage, and movement to counter pets, greatsword, and merge skills, you can nullify almost all of the damage a ranger throws at you without having to burn more than a dodge or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernRedStar.3054 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > It's when they +1 or jump you in a team fight their burst becomes an issue. What about warrior? Revenant? Necro +1'ing you? I assume they can't even compare in terms of damage pressure.... You do realize a lot of the stuff you just said and pointed out stands on equal ground with what a lot of the other classes can do. The difference is, they can usually CC-lock you down much more easily and quicker. If ranger has its damage gutted, it will have nothing. It'll be a worse thief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > Is this a troll or something? > > > > > > ... You use ranger that one shots ranger to show ranger is fine.... > > > > > > Clip 7, yes, grim jack simply ran away..... He just ran away... Fair enough, good strategy. > > > > Dodge PBS, LoS projectiles, use movement to counter pets, GS, and merge skills. > > > > Was there anything I just listed that can't be done on every other other classes besides ranger? > > Dodges are not infinite, LoS isn't always possible, not every profession can out move ranger. Ranger isn't as ridiculous when you're in a 1v1 situation and not worried too much about an objective. They are fairly predictable and what you suggested will work most the time. Granted you probably wont kill them unless you have some sort of ranged pressure but surviving is very do-able. > > It's when they +1 or jump you in a team fight their burst becomes an issue. When you get PBS+Rapid+Smokescale assult+maul+hilt+maul in a very short span (due to quickness) from off screen when you're fighting other people there isn't much to be done about it except die. I'm not saying you **cant** survive it but most the time you'll get deleted without much time to react. Its like they are doing what the thief should do, but better. Builds like this are squishy, yeah, but they are not looking for 1v1's. Glass ranger builds are rotating quickly between points and outnumbering and are way to effective at it. Even if they do get focused after bursting they have plenty of survival options. If I where to suggest anything it would be to shave their burst damage from stacking modifiers and increase their sustained damage. 1. You only need to dodge PBS. One dodge. That's all it takes. 2. There's LoS everywhere. [Clip 9]( ). All maps have a ton of LoS. 3. Every class becomes dangerous in a +1. PBS -> RF -> SA -> Maul -> HB -> Maul is an incredibly long combo. There is absolutely 0 reason why you should ever get hit by the entire thing regardless of whether or not the ranger has quickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurantien.4632 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 I'm not really looking to get into another argument about this but getting +'d by ranger -> go behind wall you're safe! Thief or rev +'s you, you're not safe anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexanima.7851 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > Is this a troll or something? > > > > > > > > ... You use ranger that one shots ranger to show ranger is fine.... > > > > > > > > Clip 7, yes, grim jack simply ran away..... He just ran away... Fair enough, good strategy. > > > > > > Dodge PBS, LoS projectiles, use movement to counter pets, GS, and merge skills. > > > > > > Was there anything I just listed that can't be done on every other other classes besides ranger? > > > > Dodges are not infinite, LoS isn't always possible, not every profession can out move ranger. Ranger isn't as ridiculous when you're in a 1v1 situation and not worried too much about an objective. They are fairly predictable and what you suggested will work most the time. Granted you probably wont kill them unless you have some sort of ranged pressure but surviving is very do-able. > > > > It's when they +1 or jump you in a team fight their burst becomes an issue. When you get PBS+Rapid+Smokescale assult+maul+hilt+maul in a very short span (due to quickness) from off screen when you're fighting other people there isn't much to be done about it except die. I'm not saying you **cant** survive it but most the time you'll get deleted without much time to react. Its like they are doing what the thief should do, but better. Builds like this are squishy, yeah, but they are not looking for 1v1's. Glass ranger builds are rotating quickly between points and outnumbering and are way to effective at it. Even if they do get focused after bursting they have plenty of survival options. If I where to suggest anything it would be to shave their burst damage from stacking modifiers and increase their sustained damage. > > 1. You only need to dodge PBS. One dodge. That's all it takes. And takedown...and hit bash...and maul..and smokescale CC...and GS 4 CC.. > 2. There's LoS everywhere. [Clip 9]( ). All maps have a ton of LoS. It's not the amount of line of sight but if you have the means/teime to get to it before eating the quickness LB combo > 3. Every class becomes dangerous in a +1. PBS -> RF -> SA -> Maul -> HB -> Maul is an incredibly long combo. There is absolutely 0 reason why you should ever get hit by the entire thing regardless of whether or not the ranger has quickness. That's true but not every class will delete you in a +1 to the effect of ranger. The combo is long but they don't have to hit you with the whole thing. A partial rapid fire and at least 1 cc and 1 maul will just about do in most professions I don't get it dude, you harp on about how easy and 'weak' ranger is yet you play it? Are you just trying to advocate for the profession until it's leaps and bounds better than all others by trying to make it look underpowered? It needs tuning, like most everything else. Some stuff is too weak on it, some stuff is too strong. As a side note, it's not very helpful when you're trying to show how 'easy to counter' ranger is while playing ranger. All you're really proving with these clips is that you're a better ranger than the other ranger. It would be more helpful to provide clips on the other 8 professions vs ranger and how they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexanima.7851 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said: > > It's when they +1 or jump you in a team fight their burst becomes an issue. > > What about warrior? Revenant? Necro +1'ing you? I assume they can't even compare in terms of damage pressure.... You do realize a lot of the stuff you just said and pointed out stands on equal ground with what a lot of the other classes can do. The difference is, they can usually CC-lock you down much more easily and quicker. > > If ranger has its damage gutted, it will have nothing. It'll be a worse thief. That's why I suggested if anything is done to rangers burst damage they need a buff to sustained damage. EDIT: Also, addressing those * Warrior: If you get +1 you'll see them coming. Blow defensive cd's and gtfo * Revenant (power shiro): They are (where?) the best for +1 because they are even better than ranger at this and were suffering from the same problems. Just because **they** can do it doesn't make it okay for ranger to as well. * Necro: Stun them and just walk away? If you get +1 most of the other professions you have time to disengage because their burst wont absolutely clap you. **ALL THAT BEING SAID** I feel like this is picking apart at my weakest argument in an attempt to support that ranger is some how weak and useless. If I provide examples like the OP did I could prove that every profession is weak and useless in competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > Is this a troll or something? > > > > > > > > > > ... You use ranger that one shots ranger to show ranger is fine.... > > > > > > > > > > Clip 7, yes, grim jack simply ran away..... He just ran away... Fair enough, good strategy. > > > > > > > > Dodge PBS, LoS projectiles, use movement to counter pets, GS, and merge skills. > > > > > > > > Was there anything I just listed that can't be done on every other other classes besides ranger? > > > > > > Dodges are not infinite, LoS isn't always possible, not every profession can out move ranger. Ranger isn't as ridiculous when you're in a 1v1 situation and not worried too much about an objective. They are fairly predictable and what you suggested will work most the time. Granted you probably wont kill them unless you have some sort of ranged pressure but surviving is very do-able. > > > > > > It's when they +1 or jump you in a team fight their burst becomes an issue. When you get PBS+Rapid+Smokescale assult+maul+hilt+maul in a very short span (due to quickness) from off screen when you're fighting other people there isn't much to be done about it except die. I'm not saying you **cant** survive it but most the time you'll get deleted without much time to react. Its like they are doing what the thief should do, but better. Builds like this are squishy, yeah, but they are not looking for 1v1's. Glass ranger builds are rotating quickly between points and outnumbering and are way to effective at it. Even if they do get focused after bursting they have plenty of survival options. If I where to suggest anything it would be to shave their burst damage from stacking modifiers and increase their sustained damage. > > > > 1. You only need to dodge PBS. One dodge. That's all it takes. > And takedown...and hit bash...and maul..and smokescale CC...and GS 4 CC.. > > 2. There's LoS everywhere. [Clip 9]( ). All maps have a ton of LoS. > It's not the amount of line of sight but if you have the means/teime to get to it before eating the quickness LB combo > > 3. Every class becomes dangerous in a +1. PBS -> RF -> SA -> Maul -> HB -> Maul is an incredibly long combo. There is absolutely 0 reason why you should ever get hit by the entire thing regardless of whether or not the ranger has quickness. > That's true but not every class will delete you in a +1 to the effect of ranger. The combo is long but they don't have to hit you with the whole thing. A partial rapid fire and at least 1 cc and 1 maul will just about do in most professions > > I don't get it dude, you harp on about how easy and 'weak' ranger is yet you play it? Are you just trying to advocate for the profession until it's leaps and bounds better than all others by trying to make it look underpowered? It needs tuning, like most everything else. Some stuff is too weak on it, some stuff is too strong. > > As a side note, it's not very helpful when you're trying to show how 'easy to counter' ranger is while playing ranger. All you're really proving with these clips is that you're a better ranger than the other ranger. It would be more helpful to provide clips on the other 8 professions vs ranger and how they do. > 1. Did you not watch any of those clips? Hilt Bash, Takedown, Maul, GS4, and Smokescale CC will _never_ connect if the other player is simply running away in a straight line. 2. Quickness LB combo as in... knockback into rapid fire? [Clip 9]( ) (again) I play ranger because I enjoy the class. Here, let me explain. Ranger gets nerfed over and over again even though it's rarely been dominant in the meta and rarely sees play competitively. In other words, I've been playing this class since release but spots on teams are generally filled by other side noders. Everything from holos, to warriors, to eles. Ranger was meta on bunker axe boonbeast for a solid 3 months since PoF came out and it was nerfed because people refuse to learn how to play against this class and would rather stand still and die to our crappy AI pet before complaining about it later on the forums. Here's me on holo post-stab nerf. [Video]( ) but it doesn't matter what clips, videos, or examples I give. The simple fact that all these show other players getting outplayed means people will go "well they weren't even good examples." Like... that's the point of learning how to counter things. So that fights become easier and easier rather than a constant struggle. Here's me on glass mesmer. [Video 1]( ) [Video 2]( ) More of Grim on ele. [Clip 1]( ) he knocks me down after the evade frame from Swoop and uses focus 4 in air to prevent me from stealthing after I swapped to longbow. [Clip 2]( ) he used unblockable knockdown through my GS4 into a burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 too bad its not the old anet, they were good at some things. for example they probably would've turned lb 4 into a launch for the hell of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nix.3152 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 ranger should be disabled in pvp and balance is not a reason. i hate them since 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozame.4098 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > Is this a troll or something? > > > > > > > > ... You use ranger that one shots ranger to show ranger is fine.... > > > > > > > > Clip 7, yes, grim jack simply ran away..... He just ran away... Fair enough, good strategy. > > > > > > Dodge PBS, LoS projectiles, use movement to counter pets, GS, and merge skills. > > > > > > Was there anything I just listed that can't be done on every other other classes besides ranger? > > > > > > You're making it sound like the clips I linked only worked because I used ranger-specific skills to kill another ranger. But that's not relevant at all. The videos show the same few ways to completely nullify the damage from rangers without having to do much more than dodge once and hold W. > > > > It could also be that SLB is just learning and not good at it. Also, clip 7 is meaningless. Also, not many classes have a 4.75 sec cd on 6-7 dmg skill... Or two set of offensive weapons. Oh, sorry, I think that's only ranger.... > > ANd I am not saying that ranger is good or bad. I am just saying your evidence here is not conclusive. Also, from a statistical point of view, at lest clip 1-3, you are farming the same Slb in the same game? So, your INDEPENDENT observations are less than 9... > > [10k True Shot on Maruaders DH]( ) > > I can link one for other classes too if you'd like. And no, clip 7 is exactly what good players do vs. ranger. Grim just did exactly what I do vs. greatsword rangers and simply run in the opposite direction so none of the attacks even have a chance at connecting. So that's a pretty kitten good example of what I've been trying to tell people. You can say "it's meaningless" all you want but in reality, it's exactly how you counter rangers in melee. > > Also, you should read my OP again. Specifically: > This is why ranger isn't good competitively. It is extremely easy to shut down the damage from this class. **The same attacks you see these players use are the exact same ones the good rangers throw at you.** However, by using reaction time to avoid Point Blank Shot, LoS to counter longbow damage, and movement to counter pets, greatsword, and merge skills, you can nullify almost all of the damage a ranger throws at you without having to burn more than a dodge or two. > And no, clip 7 is exactly what good players do vs. ranger. Grim just did exactly what I do vs. greatsword rangers and simply run in the opposite direction so none of the attacks even have a chance at connecting. Firstly, it would be more convincing if he run back and use the strategy to kill you. However, he just ran away and DID NOT come back to try to kill you... If you think this is a good argument to decide whether a class is viable in competitive environments, then no class is viable: anyone can just run away from you and survive. But this is meaningless. Also, freshair weaver might have the short CD burst to down you. And has nice superspeed uptime. So, again, might not be a very good piece of evidence. > This is why ranger isn't good competitively. It is extremely easy to shut down the damage from this class. **The same attacks you see these players use are the exact same ones the good rangers throw at you.** However, by using reaction time to avoid Point Blank Shot, LoS to counter longbow damage, and movement to counter pets, greatsword, and merge skills, you can nullify almost all of the damage a ranger throws at you without having to burn more than a dodge or two. Maybe a good advice, but you need to keep in mind that for melee classes, if I run away from rangers, rangers can run away from them too, but then ranger has LB set and pet dmg. So still might have the advantage. Also, think about the amount of skills others need to dodge: LB4, LB2 (if there is no place to LoS), GS2, 4 and 5. % also resets 2. And, pet cc, also you have unblock after pet swap. > More of Grim on ele. > Clip 1 he knocks me down after the evade frame from Swoop and uses focus 4 in air to prevent me from stealthing after I swapped to longbow. > Clip 2 he used unblockable knockdown through my GS4 into a burst. Clip 1: you were 1v2 do you know that? You also have a thief on you... Clip 2: Your stun breaks are all on CD.. Can you please do not provide these kind of weak evidence to prove your case? Also as I mentioned, maybe freshair weaver counters you. > About the 10k True shot: It is more than 5 second cd mate. And no other skills can refresh it. And usually the other set of weapon of DH is defence. And DH does not have as many stuns and rangers. Also, the clip, you were hiting a mirage who was 1v3ing? In sum, your strategy against rangers, are the strategy against all other melee classes: think about rev and FB, just run away, and the symbols or rev Mace 2 would not hit. But they are not viable? Therefore, might not be appropriate to defend the ranger class. And, rangers do have a LB set which is also an offensive weapon. Rangers might be hard to start with, since they also need to control the pets (follow and attack), but saying its not viable is nonsense. Rangers might not be the strongest and might have counters, but it does not mean it is not viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozame.4098 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > Is this a troll or something? > > > > > > > > ... You use ranger that one shots ranger to show ranger is fine.... > > > > > > > > Clip 7, yes, grim jack simply ran away..... He just ran away... Fair enough, good strategy. > > > > > > Dodge PBS, LoS projectiles, use movement to counter pets, GS, and merge skills. > > > > > > Was there anything I just listed that can't be done on every other other classes besides ranger? > > > > Dodges are not infinite, LoS isn't always possible, not every profession can out move ranger. Ranger isn't as ridiculous when you're in a 1v1 situation and not worried too much about an objective. They are fairly predictable and what you suggested will work most the time. Granted you probably wont kill them unless you have some sort of ranged pressure but surviving is very do-able. > > > > It's when they +1 or jump you in a team fight their burst becomes an issue. When you get PBS+Rapid+Smokescale assult+maul+hilt+maul in a very short span (due to quickness) from off screen when you're fighting other people there isn't much to be done about it except die. I'm not saying you **cant** survive it but most the time you'll get deleted without much time to react. Its like they are doing what the thief should do, but better. Builds like this are squishy, yeah, but they are not looking for 1v1's. Glass ranger builds are rotating quickly between points and outnumbering and are way to effective at it. Even if they do get focused after bursting they have plenty of survival options. If I where to suggest anything it would be to shave their burst damage from stacking modifiers and increase their sustained damage. > > 1. You only need to dodge PBS. One dodge. That's all it takes. > 2. There's LoS everywhere. [Clip 9]( ). All maps have a ton of LoS. > 3. Every class becomes dangerous in a +1. PBS -> RF -> SA -> Maul -> HB -> Maul is an incredibly long combo. There is absolutely 0 reason why you should ever get hit by the entire thing regardless of whether or not the ranger has quickness. > 3. Every class becomes dangerous in a +1. PBS -> RF -> SA -> Maul -> HB -> Maul is an incredibly long combo. There is absolutely 0 reason why you should ever get hit by the entire thing regardless of whether or not the ranger has quickness. This is nonsense. If you apply to the logic, then no one should get hit by FB symbols, Reaper Elite any Shroud skills, and Reaper GS skills, War GS F1 or any rampage skills, Rev Sword 4, 3, any staff skills. DH true shot, DH F1, DH LB 5; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluri.2653 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 i got hit for 17k by maul its broken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider.7849 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"Nix.3152" said: > ranger should be disabled in pvp and balance is not a reason. > i hate them since 2012. As a ranger main, I hate them too although it's in WvW (getting pewpewed endlessly while you're fighting outnumbered or from a tower) and PvE (before breakbars they would just point blank shot every mob to be trolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"bluri.2653" said: > i got hit for 17k by maul its broken Just Dodge 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"saerni.2584" said: > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > i got hit for 17k by maul its broken > > Just Dodge 2020. Laughs in mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachenfalke.7605 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > Is this a troll or something? > > ... You use ranger that one shots ranger to show ranger is fine.... > > Clip 7, yes, grim jack simply ran away..... He just ran away... Fair enough, good strategy. Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 13, 2020 Author Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > Is this a troll or something? > > > > > > > > > > ... You use ranger that one shots ranger to show ranger is fine.... > > > > > > > > > > Clip 7, yes, grim jack simply ran away..... He just ran away... Fair enough, good strategy. > > > > > > > > Dodge PBS, LoS projectiles, use movement to counter pets, GS, and merge skills. > > > > > > > > Was there anything I just listed that can't be done on every other other classes besides ranger? > > > > > > > > You're making it sound like the clips I linked only worked because I used ranger-specific skills to kill another ranger. But that's not relevant at all. The videos show the same few ways to completely nullify the damage from rangers without having to do much more than dodge once and hold W. > > > > > > It could also be that SLB is just learning and not good at it. Also, clip 7 is meaningless. Also, not many classes have a 4.75 sec cd on 6-7 dmg skill... Or two set of offensive weapons. Oh, sorry, I think that's only ranger.... > > > ANd I am not saying that ranger is good or bad. I am just saying your evidence here is not conclusive. Also, from a statistical point of view, at lest clip 1-3, you are farming the same Slb in the same game? So, your INDEPENDENT observations are less than 9... > > > > [10k True Shot on Maruaders DH]( ) > > > > I can link one for other classes too if you'd like. And no, clip 7 is exactly what good players do vs. ranger. Grim just did exactly what I do vs. greatsword rangers and simply run in the opposite direction so none of the attacks even have a chance at connecting. So that's a pretty kitten good example of what I've been trying to tell people. You can say "it's meaningless" all you want but in reality, it's exactly how you counter rangers in melee. > > > > Also, you should read my OP again. Specifically: > > This is why ranger isn't good competitively. It is extremely easy to shut down the damage from this class. **The same attacks you see these players use are the exact same ones the good rangers throw at you.** However, by using reaction time to avoid Point Blank Shot, LoS to counter longbow damage, and movement to counter pets, greatsword, and merge skills, you can nullify almost all of the damage a ranger throws at you without having to burn more than a dodge or two. > > > And no, clip 7 is exactly what good players do vs. ranger. Grim just did exactly what I do vs. greatsword rangers and simply run in the opposite direction so none of the attacks even have a chance at connecting. > 1. Firstly, it would be more convincing if he run back and use the strategy to kill you. However, he just ran away and DID NOT come back to try to kill you... If you think this is a good argument to decide whether a class is viable in competitive environments, then no class is viable: anyone can just run away from you and survive. But this is meaningless. > Also, freshair weaver might have the short CD burst to down you. And has nice superspeed uptime. So, again, might not be a very good piece of evidence. > > > This is why ranger isn't good competitively. It is extremely easy to shut down the damage from this class. **The same attacks you see these players use are the exact same ones the good rangers throw at you.** However, by using reaction time to avoid Point Blank Shot, LoS to counter longbow damage, and movement to counter pets, greatsword, and merge skills, you can nullify almost all of the damage a ranger throws at you without having to burn more than a dodge or two. > > 2. Maybe a good advice, but you need to keep in mind that for melee classes, if I run away from rangers, rangers can run away from them too, but then ranger has LB set and pet dmg. So still might have the advantage. Also, think about the amount of skills others need to dodge: LB4, LB2 (if there is no place to LoS), GS2, 4 and 5. % also resets 2. And, pet cc, also you have unblock after pet swap. > > > > More of Grim on ele. > > Clip 1 he knocks me down after the evade frame from Swoop and uses focus 4 in air to prevent me from stealthing after I swapped to longbow. > > Clip 2 he used unblockable knockdown through my GS4 into a burst. > 3. Clip 1: you were 1v2 do you know that? You also have a thief on you... > Clip 2: Your stun breaks are all on CD.. > Can you please do not provide these kind of weak evidence to prove your case? Also as I mentioned, maybe freshair weaver counters you. > > > > About the 10k True shot: > 4. It is more than 5 second cd mate. And no other skills can refresh it. And usually the other set of weapon of DH is defence. And DH does not have as many stuns and rangers. Also, the clip, you were hiting a mirage who was 1v3ing? > > 5. In sum, your strategy against rangers, are the strategy against all other melee classes: think about rev and FB, just run away, and the symbols or rev Mace 2 would not hit. But they are not viable? Therefore, might not be appropriate to defend the ranger class. And, rangers do have a LB set which is also an offensive weapon. Rangers might be hard to start with, since they also need to control the pets (follow and attack), but saying its not viable is nonsense. Rangers might not be the strongest and might have counters, but it does not mean it is not viable. > > Okay let me just preface this by saying I gave you multiple video examples on how this strategy can work consistently and you're trying to argue that: a) It doesn't actually work consistently b) It's not a viable strategy 1. Ranger's mobility is almost completely tied to GS. We have a single skill that should be reserved for trying to escape rather than chase someone down (it doesn't even cripple). Unlike holosmith, spb, or weaver, there are no ways to reliably close the gap on an opponent in melee range if they're kiting like this. As a result, simply turning around and holding W is a strategy that works more consistently against ranger's melee than all of those other side noders I just listed. Hence, why it's way easier for good players to nullify ranger damage (and why it's not/hasn't been good competitively) compared to other classes. 2. So then dodge the PBS, LoS the longbow, and keep moving the same way to avoid the pet as you should do for greatsword. And you can't completely avoid other those classes' damage in melee like you can for ranger GS. 3. Look how fast I died when other players know what they're doing. Well-timed CCs, well-timed damage, well-timed anti-projectile, etc. etc. Do you think Grim just randomly decided to hold down W or do you think maybe another high ranking player did that because it _works_? He was obviously looking behind him because turned around to try and kill me again as soon as I used the Maul. 4. Didn't you _just_ say to me, ["Also, not many classes have a 4.75 sec cd on 6-7 dmg skill"](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1186090/#Comment_1186090)? Well, DH has a skill that can hit for 10k every 8 seconds. 3-4k more damage on a 1-2 second longer cooldown that can be used at 1200 range that can't simply be outranged easily (though just as easily dodgeable as Maul) is v dangerous considering it can take 60% of your health off at any given moment. :open_mouth: 5. Yes, try straight up running away from a Rev to counter S/S Shiro or condi mallyx and see how that goes when they ranged chill, port/pull, and super speed you into downstate. Either way, there are other skills on other classes that can be avoided the same way. Ranger is one of the most prevalent ones that can be 100% avoided through movement alone (traveler runes are all you need if you choose not to take swiftness in your build). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 13, 2020 Author Share Posted March 13, 2020 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > Is this a troll or something? > > > > > > > > > > ... You use ranger that one shots ranger to show ranger is fine.... > > > > > > > > > > Clip 7, yes, grim jack simply ran away..... He just ran away... Fair enough, good strategy. > > > > > > > > Dodge PBS, LoS projectiles, use movement to counter pets, GS, and merge skills. > > > > > > > > Was there anything I just listed that can't be done on every other other classes besides ranger? > > > > > > Dodges are not infinite, LoS isn't always possible, not every profession can out move ranger. Ranger isn't as ridiculous when you're in a 1v1 situation and not worried too much about an objective. They are fairly predictable and what you suggested will work most the time. Granted you probably wont kill them unless you have some sort of ranged pressure but surviving is very do-able. > > > > > > It's when they +1 or jump you in a team fight their burst becomes an issue. When you get PBS+Rapid+Smokescale assult+maul+hilt+maul in a very short span (due to quickness) from off screen when you're fighting other people there isn't much to be done about it except die. I'm not saying you **cant** survive it but most the time you'll get deleted without much time to react. Its like they are doing what the thief should do, but better. Builds like this are squishy, yeah, but they are not looking for 1v1's. Glass ranger builds are rotating quickly between points and outnumbering and are way to effective at it. Even if they do get focused after bursting they have plenty of survival options. If I where to suggest anything it would be to shave their burst damage from stacking modifiers and increase their sustained damage. > > > > 1. You only need to dodge PBS. One dodge. That's all it takes. > > 2. There's LoS everywhere. [Clip 9]( ). All maps have a ton of LoS. > > 3. Every class becomes dangerous in a +1. PBS -> RF -> SA -> Maul -> HB -> Maul is an incredibly long combo. There is absolutely 0 reason why you should ever get hit by the entire thing regardless of whether or not the ranger has quickness. > > > 3. Every class becomes dangerous in a +1. PBS -> RF -> SA -> Maul -> HB -> Maul is an incredibly long combo. There is absolutely 0 reason why you should ever get hit by the entire thing regardless of whether or not the ranger has quickness. > > This is nonsense. If you apply to the logic, then no one should get hit by FB symbols, Reaper Elite any Shroud skills, and Reaper GS skills, War GS F1 or any rampage skills, Rev Sword 4, 3, any staff skills. DH true shot, DH F1, DH LB 5; 1. You shouldn't get hit by the symbols more than once in a straight up fight but when you're trying to hold nodes in Conquest, it's necessary to stand on point. Unlike ranger, Mauls don't cover the entire node indefinitely. It's perfectly fine to kite in and out to avoid attacks on Ranger, but the strategy is much less viable vs. Symbolbrands in a game. 2. Good luck running 600 range away in the 1.25 seconds it takes to cast Chilled to the Bone on Reaper. You're not going to be able to kite Reaper Shroud the same way you can kite a ranger GS either because it has a movement skill on a 6 second cooldown (goes down if you land the 3rd chain of the auto with Reaper's Onslaught). 3. Warrior Arcing Slice can be avoided through movement. Rampage cannot. 4. Both Rev S3 and S4 can be avoided through movement but S4 is significantly harder because they have access to a lot of movement speed buffs. Rev Staff can be avoided through movement for the most part except for maybe Staff 3 (which they generally don't use super speed to land the blind). 5. Good luck runnning 1200 range away in the .75s it takes to cast True Shot and Spear of Justice. DH LB5 can be avoided entirely through movement. I don't know what point you're trying to make here but if you can't understand why running away works against some skills and not other, and why it is much more effective to do vs. ranger gs than against other classes in melee, then I don't feel like discussing this with you further. You can see in my explanation earlier in this post that movement alone works against _certain_ skills, but not all of them unlike ranger gs. I'm not saying, "Omg it's only viable against rangers" because the same strategy is useful when dueling everyone. It's just that you're not going to be able to avoid other classes 100% by simply holding W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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