Season 1 missions NOT playable without icebrood saga = very bad for new comers

[Kagi.9621]

Played through those episodes with my friend yesterday and we both were extremely disappointed. We both did play when the game launched, but left before season 1 started and missed it completely. Now we went in with excitement to finally see stories from season 1 ourselves and all what we saw were pieces without any context, making no sense. Yes, we been looking it up before, but without looking not in game explanations, those flashbacks do not “tell” you anything!

In end we both felt like it was a huge waste of good opportunity and Anet worktime. They all felt like doing random event in open world with some familiar npc. Actual story was pretty much missing. Why were you there? Why did you help those characters? How you met them? None of them didn’t have much to say, so whole backstory leading into those instances was completely missing.

We both felt almost more disappointed than first finding out that you cannot replay season 1 after finishing core game story and have to continue right to season 2.

While I absolutely agree that season 1 missions should be played after finishing core story, in their current form they really don’t fit there... or anywhere really. Really sad.

 

[MikeG.6389]

I think, the reason why these four missions were chosen is because they were (the only?) instanced parts of season 1, so it took the least amount of effort to rework them to make them playable again. But the missions are disjointed and there is no explanation why things happen in them. If you experience them as a new player as part of the story before you'd do season 2, they wouldn't make much sense.

So, to make them work in the journal, we need the rest of season 1, which is unlikely to happen, since most of it was open world stuff.

That being said, I'd love to see the old version of Labyrinthine Cliffs, without mounts...

[Westenev.5289]

I wouldn't have minded so much if Anet provided a short cutscene to introduce the character and set the scene (even if its only stillshots and snippets of lsw1 dialogue). Being thrown straight into a mission was hella confusing, especially when characters reference conversations that likely came directly before the instance.

 

But, as far as I am concerned, the eye of the north was a good place to put past content. Let's just hope it isn't abandoned like suns refuge...

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

> @"MikeG.6389" said:

> I think, the reason why these four missions were chosen is because they were (the only?) instanced parts of season 1, so it took the least amount of effort to rework them to make them playable again. But the missions are disjointed and there is no explanation why things happen in them. If you experience them as a new player as part of the story before you'd do season 2, they wouldn't make much sense.

> So, to make them work in the journal, we need the rest of season 1, which is unlikely to happen, since most of it was open world stuff.

> That being said, I'd love to see the old version of Labyrinthine Cliffs, without mounts...

 

that is of course further problem with it. but its not what i wanted to focus on for now. the fact of the matter is that season one needs more then that one patched together cinematic. one could argue could see it as an insult ala "Well fuck you for not playing this game 6 years ago asshole you only get bread crumbs NOW DEAL WITH CHARACTERS YOU DO NOT CARE ABOUT HAHA"

 

and that's not even mentioning the major spoilers that one has to experience just to play even those snippets of season 1 and i am very inclined to believe most new player if they bother with the story want to experience it in order and without spoilers

[dchsknight.3042]

> @"ShroomOneUp.6913" said:

> After a long long long time we finally get some aspects of season one back as playable content and new player who never had the chance to play it can finally experience the story.

>

> to bad they have to play minimum one ice brood saga episode to get there.

> this is one of the BIGGEST missteps in bringing back season one and it NEEDS to be called out.

> these mission should NOT be bared for new comers behind the icebrood saga, they should be playable directly after finishing the core game's story, after defeating zhaitan to experience the story at least SOMEWHAT in order.

> These mission SHOULD be accessible with Magister Ela Makkay, the same NPC that gives this awful to short summary, so any new player can play them as they were intended: as story missions to lead them into season 2

>

> "But currency for armor and such are given out in those and...:"

>

> then disable the rewards when they serve as mere story progression instances. in season two achievements were ONLY doable in the second play through, the same can be done with reward specific to this filler episode

>

> Anet, you have done very well so far but this is very important for the story missions you brought back.

>

> **They need to be playable as story progression directly after defeating zhaitan**

>

> Please, if any of you forum mods or even dev team members find this: I implore you to head my plea and make it possible that newcomers have the possibility to play those and up coming season 1 missions AT LEAST ONCE while being at that stage of their story progression.

> It can and possible very much is vital to the enjoyment of the further story that those new players will experience.

>

> EDIT:

> its really sad to see that some do not care about a chronological flow of the story and character introduction when new comers need it.

> it is like asking people to watch LOTR without watching "the fellowship" at all

>

> Edit2:

> I also see some comments saying new player should just "look up the wiki" or "Watch this 3 hour video".

> First the wiki option is even if it were a good option (it isn't really) not really realistic as most likely ALL new player do not even know how to use the wiki chat function, anet has never been able to communicate that information properly.

> And the movie option is to ask new players to stop playing the game they probably want to continue playing and then to watch a 3 hour video. It may have been a placeholder in the past, but now with story missions literally playable, its not really a better option.

>

> edit3:

>

> 6:03-10:40

> this perfectly encapsulates why this awkward placement of season one missions is so jarring. so the only hope that those who agree can work on that if more is implemented that it actually will be made into proper story journal

 

Living Seasons have been this way since the dawn of Linving seasons. If you do not log in during the free time you miss out and you have to buy it. WHat made you think this was going to be any different?

[robertthebard.8150]

Hi, new-ish player here. I missed LS 1, 2 and 3. For background on the seasons, there's an NPC in Lion's Arch that gave me all the information I need to understand LS 1's main story. So I don't see this as "but the new player", I see this as "but I want the whole season back, and playable, and this version is unacceptable. Of course, I realize that this has been discussed to death*, but I still think if I claim that it hurts new players, they'll pay more attention".

 

*I was told in one of these previous threads that I really didn't get enough information to understand what went on in one of those threads, which is what leads me to the conclusion that it's not about new players, but a desire to have the whole episode repeatable.

[MikeG.6389]

> @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> Hi, new-ish player here. I missed LS 1, 2 and 3. For background on the seasons, there's an NPC in Lion's Arch that gave me all the information I need to understand LS 1's main story. So I don't see this as "but the new player", I see this as "but I want the whole season back, and playable, and this version is unacceptable. Of course, I realize that this has been discussed to death*, but I still think if I claim that it hurts new players, they'll pay more attention".

>

> *I was told in one of these previous threads that I really didn't get enough information to understand what went on in one of those threads, which is what leads me to the conclusion that it's not about new players, but a desire to have the whole episode repeatable.

 

I think you may be onto something. OP obviously isn't a new player, yet he/she appears to be a self-appointed advocate for them.

I think the missions are fine where they are now. If and when ANet find a way to bring back the whole season as a cohesive unit, only then should it be put in the story journal. I doubt that will ever happen, but I'm hoping.

[Skiravor.1257]

> @"GummyBearSummoner.7941" said:

> If you aren’t a new player then why do you care?

 

Maybe he cares to grow the game. Its why i dont invite friends to this messy game.

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"Skiravor.1257" said:

> > @"GummyBearSummoner.7941" said:

> > If you aren’t a new player then why do you care?

>

> Maybe he cares to grow the game. Its why i dont invite friends to this messy game.

 

Here's my take, as someone that's been a new player years in on MMOs, and as someone that got in on the ground floor, 2nd closed beta in Aion, with an active sub when it went F2P. I missed a lot of things coming in late to the party that I didn't miss when I didn't. When I read these kinds of threads, I come around to thinking, especially if they're persistent enough, that if they got this, they'd then insist every event reward ever be paid out, especially if they missed out for whatever reason. This isn't as far fetched as one might like to believe, I saw it happen in swtor, in the last year. There was a promotional chapter that was awarded for maintaining a sub for 7 months. A few years later, there we were on the forums, discussing how it "wasn't fair to the new players, or those that didn't want to maintain their subs". Eventually, BW caved, and you can now buy it on their store. It's the "nature of the beast" as it were, as there are always "those players" that think they can leverage what they want with "but the new players".

 

It's funny, to me, to read about the "mess" this game is, when I look around on maps while playing, and there's always people around. But hey, that's a subjective opinion, and everyone is entitled to it. I find it interesting though, in context, that if LS 1 were available to replay, you would find it a lot less messy?

[JTGuevara.9018]

Yeah...season 1 was developed during a time when ANet was more ambitious regarding the persistent world concept. If you didn't log in, too bad! You missed it forever! That being said, it was changed in season 2 to the current system that we all know of today. I missed half of season 1, so I was grateful to play these. Also, the thing about season 1 is that some of the content was open-world, and it was also incorporated during holidays. Those are more tricky to incorporate into the current living world story journal, especially the holidays. The holidays are periodic, they come and go to this day. Season 1 holidays also had key events, lead-up dialogue and story context relevant to the next episode. Still, I don't rule out the possibility of it. Also, if you think about it, a good chunk of season 1 is currently playable. It's just in a disjointed order scattered throughout different areas of the game. Here's the breakdown of what's playable and not:

 

1. **Shadow of Mad King(Halloween 2012)**-- Open-world. Holiday. Not playable.

2. **Lost Shores**-- Open-world. Not playable.

3. **Wintersday 2012**-- Open-world. Holiday. Not playable.

4. **Flame and Frost**--Playable

> _Cragstead_ - Eye of the North. Braham's debut.

> _Molten Furnace_ - Fractals of the Mists

> _Molten Boss_ - Fractals of the Mists

> _Nolan Hatchery_ - Eye of the North. Rox's debut.

 

5. **The Secret of Southsun** - Open world. Not playable. Campaign against Canach. Canach's debut.

6. **Last Stand at Southsun** - Playable. Eye of the North.

6. **2012 Dragon Bash** - Holiday. Not playable. Marjory & Kasmeer debut.

7. **Sky Pirates of Tyria** - Playable.

>_Aetherblade Retreat_ - Fractals of the Mists

>_Mai Trin Boss_ - Fractals of the Mists

 

7. **2012 Bazaar of the Four Winds** - Open-world. Holiday. Not playable.

8. **Cutthroat Politics** - The Election. Not playable and don't see a way how!

9. **Queen's Jubilee** - Open-world. Holiday. Not playable.

10. **Clockwork Chaos** - Open-world. Not playable. (The invasion of Scarlet's forces)

11. **2013 Super Adventure Box** - Holiday. Not playable.

12. **Tequatl Rising** - Open-world. Playable. (Good old daily TEQ in Sparkly Fen!)

13. **Twilight Assault** - Dungeon. Playable. Twilight Arbor Aetherpath

14. **Blood and Madness(Halloween 2013)** - Open-world. Holiday. Not playable. (Taimi's Debut)

15. **Tower of Nightmares** - Open-world. Not playable.

16. **The Nightmare Within** - Playable. Eye of the North

17. **Fractured** - Playable. Fractals of the Mists. (Result of election in Cutthroat Politics)

18. **2013 Wintersday** - Holiday. Not playable.

19. **The Origins of Madness** - Part Open-world. Part instance. Not playable. (Investigation into Scarlet leading up to Twisted Marionette)

20. **Edge of the Mists** - Open-world. Not playable. (Incorporates wvw somehow?)

21. **Escape from Lion's Arch** - Open-world instance. Not playable.

22. **The Battle of LIon's Arch** - Open-world instance with a final personal instance against Scarlet inside the Breachmaker. Not playable.

 

The way I see things is: Key open-world events like the Lost Shores, Twisted Marionette, Escape from Lion's Arch and Battle of Lion's Arch can potentially be brought back as visions in Eye of the North, at least for the moment. You can incorporate them into open-world instances, like strike missions. You can make them public or squad. Clockwork Chaos, I'm not so sure. That's tricky. The final battle against Scarlet inside the Breachmaker can easily be made into an instance. That really only leaves the holidays in which honestly not much has happened except a small break from the action along with some character dialogue and context. Plus, most of the holidays already exist and circulate throughout the year.

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

I can't say more than I already have in other posts about this, but I DID say it would be a failure if it was not added in the journal and with the original content! From HUGE OMG SO SWEEET! To; oh well, at least they tried.................. :'( :'( :'(

 

But maybe it's a work in progress!? I'm okay if they keep adding more to it later down the road but...yeah.........................

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

> @"dchsknight.3042" said:

>

> Living Seasons have been this way since the dawn of Linving seasons. If you do not log in during the free time you miss out and you have to buy it. WHat made you think this was going to be any different?

its not about the purchase but the inconvenient spoiler heavy placement of it

 

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

> @"MikeG.6389" said:

> > @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > Hi, new-ish player here. I missed LS 1, 2 and 3. For background on the seasons, there's an NPC in Lion's Arch that gave me all the information I need to understand LS 1's main story. So I don't see this as "but the new player", I see this as "but I want the whole season back, and playable, and this version is unacceptable. Of course, I realize that this has been discussed to death*, but I still think if I claim that it hurts new players, they'll pay more attention".

> >

> > *I was told in one of these previous threads that I really didn't get enough information to understand what went on in one of those threads, which is what leads me to the conclusion that it's not about new players, but a desire to have the whole episode repeatable.

>

> I think you may be onto something. OP obviously isn't a new player, yet he/she appears to be a self-appointed advocate for them.

> I think the missions are fine where they are now. If and when ANet find a way to bring back the whole season as a cohesive unit, only then should it be put in the story journal. I doubt that will ever happen, but I'm hoping.

 

once agina missing the point. its not about how well these missions are brought back in of themselves. it is about WHERE they are accessed

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

> @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > @"Skiravor.1257" said:

> > > @"GummyBearSummoner.7941" said:

> > > If you aren’t a new player then why do you care?

> >

> > Maybe he cares to grow the game. Its why i dont invite friends to this messy game.

>

> Here's my take, as someone that's been a new player years in on MMOs, and as someone that got in on the ground floor, 2nd closed beta in Aion, with an active sub when it went F2P. I missed a lot of things coming in late to the party that I didn't miss when I didn't. When I read these kinds of threads, I come around to thinking, especially if they're persistent enough, that if they got this, they'd then insist every event reward ever be paid out, especially if they missed out for whatever reason. This isn't as far fetched as one might like to believe, I saw it happen in swtor, in the last year. There was a promotional chapter that was awarded for maintaining a sub for 7 months. A few years later, there we were on the forums, discussing how it "wasn't fair to the new players, or those that didn't want to maintain their subs". Eventually, BW caved, and you can now buy it on their store. It's the "nature of the beast" as it were, as there are always "those players" that think they can leverage what they want with "but the new players".

>

> It's funny, to me, to read about the "mess" this game is, when I look around on maps while playing, and there's always people around. But hey, that's a subjective opinion, and everyone is entitled to it. I find it interesting though, in context, that if LS 1 were available to replay, you would find it a lot less messy?

 

if the story was merely motivation for players to get to point B from point A to get new gear this may be a good point, but as far as i understand SWTOR and how guild wars 2 is developed, it lays a very hefty amount on story telling. having portions of a story tugged behind story spoilers that go many expansions deep is just bad re implementation. for veteran players who have done it it may be fine and as a challenge on the side it totally is. but as a cohesive way to tell a story in order, its down right horrible.

further more the replay-ability and retell-ability was discussed already back then during season 1, as that discussion (plus anet being overwhelmed with the production of such updates) lead to season one being how the rest of the living world would be: re playable and in chronological order

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"ShroomOneUp.6913" said:

> > @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > > @"Skiravor.1257" said:

> > > > @"GummyBearSummoner.7941" said:

> > > > If you aren’t a new player then why do you care?

> > >

> > > Maybe he cares to grow the game. Its why i dont invite friends to this messy game.

> >

> > Here's my take, as someone that's been a new player years in on MMOs, and as someone that got in on the ground floor, 2nd closed beta in Aion, with an active sub when it went F2P. I missed a lot of things coming in late to the party that I didn't miss when I didn't. When I read these kinds of threads, I come around to thinking, especially if they're persistent enough, that if they got this, they'd then insist every event reward ever be paid out, especially if they missed out for whatever reason. This isn't as far fetched as one might like to believe, I saw it happen in swtor, in the last year. There was a promotional chapter that was awarded for maintaining a sub for 7 months. A few years later, there we were on the forums, discussing how it "wasn't fair to the new players, or those that didn't want to maintain their subs". Eventually, BW caved, and you can now buy it on their store. It's the "nature of the beast" as it were, as there are always "those players" that think they can leverage what they want with "but the new players".

> >

> > It's funny, to me, to read about the "mess" this game is, when I look around on maps while playing, and there's always people around. But hey, that's a subjective opinion, and everyone is entitled to it. I find it interesting though, in context, that if LS 1 were available to replay, you would find it a lot less messy?

>

> if the story was merely motivation for players to get to point B from point A to get new gear this may be a good point, but as far as i understand SWTOR and how guild wars 2 is developed, it lays a very hefty amount on story telling. having portions of a story tugged behind story spoilers that go many expansions deep is just bad re implementation. for veteran players who have done it it may be fine and as a challenge on the side it totally is. but as a cohesive way to tell a story in order, its down right horrible.

> further more the replay-ability and retell-ability was discussed already back then during season 1, as that discussion (plus anet being overwhelmed with the production of such updates) lead to season one being how the rest of the living world would be: re playable and in chronological order

 

swtor is another story driven MMO. When I first got to 80, I got a letter in the character's mail, telling me about an NPC in Lion's Arch that wanted to talk to me. That NPC told me the story of LS 1. I found I had plenty of information to continue, with just that. With that, and then these replay-able instances, it would be even more, if I hadn't watched a video of the whole thing on YouTube per someone's suggestion in one of the many "but we need it back" threads. Contrary to what some people want to have ANet believe, us new/newish players understand that one off events happen, and that they may have happened when we were happily playing something else.

 

It's great that ANet changed their design philosophy on the other seasons going forward. The thing is, I don't see a horde of new players coming to the forums insisting that LS 1 be added back to the mix; I see a lot of people that have already played it, insisting new players are missing out. Here's the rub, we did miss out. We missed out on a lot of things that happened between launch and whenever we joined, and that's how the cookie crumbles, mate, not the end of the world. The rest of the seasons are free, if you've logged in while they're available. If not, you have to buy them, even if you bought the associated expansions. I'm fine with that, so fine, in fact, that I bought the LS I missed, despite buying the expansions. Since they have some background that may be considered "essential", if you get ANet to cave on this, is it then time to start rallying the troops to get the rest of the LS content available for free too? Because that's exactly what I see happening, and exactly what my anecdote from my previous post demonstrates.

[HotDelirium.7984]

> @"MikeG.6389" said:

> I think, the reason why these four missions were chosen is because they were (the only?) instanced parts of season 1, so it took the least amount of effort to rework them to make them playable again. But the missions are disjointed and there is no explanation why things happen in them. If you experience them as a new player as part of the story before you'd do season 2, they wouldn't make much sense.

 

You hit on the most egregious of problems- we all see it, we all know it and its embarrassing; this is the LEAST amount of effort. Even just a paragraph explaining who this person is and why we are there didn't even cross their minds. This is a huge disappointment. It was almost like a fractal just jumping into some random situation and then bam its over. Um...for those who never got to see season 1, thanks I guess? Good try but do better next time!

 

 

[coso.9173]

the video they used as replacement for lws1 could have been a bit longer and explain the other main characters a more and also scarlet's story and motivation.