Thief Backstab need an Upgrade

[Umair.7693]

Yea, other class get reliable source of damages while thief, we have backstab that need proper setup to get "3k-8k dmg". If you unlucky, backstab get block and goes into cd.

The other source of damages are cancer condi which i do not like to play with.

 

Please ANET, improve backstab damage a little bit for power build, to compensate the cooldown of stealth skill. I'm sick of condi build.

Please consider your customer insight .

[knyy.6427]

Do you mean in pve or PvP? In pve it should be first considered to change the perma revealed on some raid bosses that makes d/d power builds completely unviable. But that would nerf staff daredevil. :/

[Cynz.9437]

I honestly still don't understand their logic behind CD on stealth attacks (outside of bias) while every other class is overloaded with skills (a lot of them aoe) dealing way more damage than bs ever could.

It is also really sad to see that this CD still locks you out of AA. Thieves are only class that are not allowed to use AA due to terrible design choices.

[Graeaw.6329]

I can imagine a trait like: Stealth attacks now have 0,5 sec cooldown. For 2 seconds after being revealed, your stealth attack is available to be used, once. 5-8 sec ICD

[Vertep.2498]

yeah I also doesnt understant CD for backstab whiel at all this is so weak in ocompare to new elite specs in pve...for compare my friend on scrouge or jsut on firebrand...with condis have minimum 30k tickes per second while in same environment I need to use before cloak and dagger to get into stealth which is hitting for around 5k and then backstab for maybe 12k and then revealed and need to spam autoattacks which are weaker than backsetab and to this as I wrote it on start...firebrant with 30k condi damage per second ignoring every arorm with this ofc with which normal power build need to deal with this

 

I just feel like an garbage while playing just power thief....with not bad buffs 15k backstab which can be used once per 5 seconds because of cooldowns to different things while condi builds are hitting nonstop this 30k+ dps

[Umair.7693]

> @knyy.6427 said:

> Do you mean in pve or PvP? In pve it should be first considered to change the perma revealed on some raid bosses that makes d/d power builds completely unviable. But that would nerf staff daredevil. :/

 

Both, pve and pvp. Too underpower :(

[Siltherium.3492]

> @Umair.7693 said:

> Both, pve and pvp. Too underpower :(

 

Totally agree. In PvE, where you can set up it more "easily", you can nearly reach his damage just AA all the time you consume just setting it up. In PvP busrt damage is more usefull, but here land it is harder. If you fail it, you have the infernal CD which usually surpass your stealth time. If you hit it, you have lost a lot of initiative or skills just to deal nearly the same amounth of damage than a continuous D/P #3+AA "unmisseable" combo. And with less blinds.

[Umair.7693]

From reducing damage to getting a CD is a no fun to land the backstab.

A little boost to the damage would compensate the CD imho, or better yet remove the CD.

[roamzero.9486]

Maybe make all stealth attacks unblockable. Rifle stealth attack is already unblockable, why not the rest. That said though, Id rather see other stuff get nerfed instead of continual power creep.

[Cynz.9437]

> @roamzero.9486 said:

> Maybe make all stealth attacks unblockable. Rifle stealth attack is already unblockable, why not the rest. That said though, Id rather see other stuff get nerfed instead of continual power creep.

 

They won't do it. Whole reason why backstab got nerfed multiple times is because guards were crying rivers on pvp forums about thieves being able to drop aegis with bs. If you didn't notice yet, thief is being balanced around unreasonable QQ of players that don't even play the class.

[Umair.7693]

> @Cynz.9437 said:

> > @roamzero.9486 said:

> > Maybe make all stealth attacks unblockable. Rifle stealth attack is already unblockable, why not the rest. That said though, Id rather see other stuff get nerfed instead of continual power creep.

>

> They won't do it. Whole reason why backstab got nerfed multiple times is because guards were crying rivers on pvp forums about thieves being able to drop aegis with bs. If you didn't notice yet, thief is being balanced around unreasonable QQ of players that don't even play the class.

 

This. It's like thief are the one to be blame due to other player's l2p issue. I hope they can fix current Backstab situation.

[Siltherium.3492]

> @Umair.7693 said:

> This. It's like thief are the one to be blame due to other player's l2p issue. I hope they can fix current Backstab situation.

 

idd. Is like the old meme: Always blame the jungler. But in this game is: Always blame the Thief.

[Jinks.2057]

Yes at this time Backstab is pretty weak

[Platanos.8107]

> @knyy.6427 said:

> Do you mean in pve or PvP? In pve it should be first considered to change the perma revealed on some raid bosses that makes d/d power builds completely unviable. But that would nerf staff daredevil. :/

 

You can use death's judgement to get rid of the perma revealed (only tried on Deimos) . Not sure if the elite works too. ;)

[DeceiverX.8361]

The problem is bigger than backstab. It's not good in PvE because of off-the-chain damage powercreep (remember when 20k was super high?)

It's not good in PvP because of the ICD due to spammable blocks/invulns/dodges/etc. but is too easy to land in a situation where the blocks/etc. do not exist.

 

Nerf 90% of the other damage coefficients that have come since HoT, remove/nerf most access to blocks/invulns/etc. in the game incorporated since HoT, and it's fine.

 

Otherwise you end up needing to arms-race it by making it have no ICD and still needing to buff it.

 

But you've all seen how well that approach has turned out...

 

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

Just remove the god damn 1 second cool down from the thing.

[Crinn.7864]

Alternatively you could just not backstab someone that is using a block or evade.

 

Backstab's setup is no longer or shorter than comparable damage skills on other classes. You do not need special accommodations.

[Elxdark.9702]

Are you talking about pve right? because in pvp backstab is definitely a good skill.

 

imo backstab is alright, it's just the stupid cd thing they did with stealth AA that feels annoying.

They could revert that change and make stealth AA reveals you when blind/block/evade instead of the annoying cd.

 

[Vambrace.8675]

Backstab takes positioning and timing to land...of course they added a cd to make the skill even tougher to play with...

 

Anet wants you to get condi gear and then spam 3 buttons ftw... stop trying to bring timing and skill to your gameplay...

B)

 

You will be much happier using spammable buttons and winning most of your fights with little thought or effort for that matter.

 

Actually remove backstab...just have that skill destealth and drop the thiefs pants...Oh wait, that is basically what it does now...

[Turk.5460]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> Alternatively you could just not backstab someone that is using a block or evade.

>

> Backstab's setup is no longer or shorter than comparable damage skills on other classes. You do not need special accommodations.

 

It's setup is absolutely longer. Most comparable damage abilities require one skill, one button press. Backstab requires at the very least 2. Most often it requires 3. And a majority of the comparable damage abilities can be done from range, and hit multiple targets.

 

??????

[Cynz.9437]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> Alternatively you could just not backstab someone that is using a block or evade.

>

> Backstab's setup is no longer or shorter than comparable damage skills on other classes. You do not need special accommodations.

 

that assuming thief instantly gets stealth without casting anything kek

 

wtb facepalm emote

[babazhook.6805]

I think the decay in usage of backstab is as much to do with the added damage of the thief dagger #1 damage boosts that occurred.

[ZhouX.8742]

> @Turk.5460 said:

> > @Crinn.7864 said:

> > Alternatively you could just not backstab someone that is using a block or evade.

> >

> > Backstab's setup is no longer or shorter than comparable damage skills on other classes. You do not need special accommodations.

>

> It's setup is absolutely longer. Most comparable damage abilities require one skill, one button press. Backstab requires at the very least 2. Most often it requires 3. And a majority of the comparable damage abilities can be done from range, and hit multiple targets.

>

> ??????

 

Yes, backstab will surely win you more conquest games , nevermind the d/p weaponset as a whole alongside shortbow right?

 

d/p and s/d is the best for thief in the game. Just stop. Spamming 1 in stealth until you get a backstab is not healthy, never was.

 

Learn how to anticipate where they're going based on movement , you can also SS to backstab which would take a minimal knowledge of enemy's defensives and their cooldowns and counting dodges but judging from your posts, I highly doubt this advice will stick because you want it easy.

 

Thief is already broken with d/p alone with pressure, cc, gap closing on 3, autos buffed and not to mention with SB you dominate conquest on movement alone.

 

Backstab is fine as is, serves its purpose in PvP/WvW

 

PvE can be a different story but since I hardly PvE , condi is most likely better in all aspects anyway or you'd do more DPS camping staff with zerker.

[omgdracula.6345]

> @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > @Turk.5460 said:

> > > @Crinn.7864 said:

> > > Alternatively you could just not backstab someone that is using a block or evade.

> > >

> > > Backstab's setup is no longer or shorter than comparable damage skills on other classes. You do not need special accommodations.

> >

> > It's setup is absolutely longer. Most comparable damage abilities require one skill, one button press. Backstab requires at the very least 2. Most often it requires 3. And a majority of the comparable damage abilities can be done from range, and hit multiple targets.

> >

> > ??????

>

> Yes, backstab will surely win you more conquest games , nevermind the d/p weaponset as a whole alongside shortbow right?

>

> d/p and s/d is the best for thief in the game. Just stop. Spamming 1 in stealth until you get a backstab is not healthy, never was.

>

> Learn how to anticipate where they're going based on movement , you can also SS to backstab which would take a minimal knowledge of enemy's defensives and their cooldowns and counting dodges but judging from your posts, I highly doubt this advice will stick because you want it easy.

>

> Thief is already broken with d/p alone with pressure, cc, gap closing on 3, autos buffed and not to mention with SB you dominate conquest on movement alone.

>

> Backstab is fine as is, serves its purpose in PvP/WvW

>

> PvE can be a different story but since I hardly PvE , condi is most likely better in all aspects anyway or you'd do more DPS camping staff with zerker.

 

The issue with it staying the same is the Cost of Initiative for MAYBE an ROI. Other thief D/P skills give you an instant return on ROI.

 

Heartseeker - Leap and also does increased damage based on target health

Shadow Shot - Unblockable and a gap closer

Headshot - Daze and with PI traited does a good amount of damage

Black Powder - Blinds target in pulses and also gives you access to stealth with Heartseeker

 

Now if you look at backstab you have to invest a lot of initiative OR you blow blinding powder(which is better to be saved for escaping) So typical combo to get stealth is Black Powder -> to HS. Say you only do one HS to gain stealth . That uses up 9 initiative out of 15(from bonus 3 from trait) If you want to fully stack stealth you use the whole 15 to get maximum return on stealth amount. Which means if you do not hit backstab you're at no initiative to do anything.

 

That is bad design. Backstab requires a thief player to pretty much go all in for a low chance or ROI.

[Turk.5460]

> @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > @Turk.5460 said:

> > > @Crinn.7864 said:

> > > Alternatively you could just not backstab someone that is using a block or evade.

> > >

> > > Backstab's setup is no longer or shorter than comparable damage skills on other classes. You do not need special accommodations.

> >

> > It's setup is absolutely longer. Most comparable damage abilities require one skill, one button press. Backstab requires at the very least 2. Most often it requires 3. And a majority of the comparable damage abilities can be done from range, and hit multiple targets.

> >

> > ??????

>

> Yes, backstab will surely win you more conquest games , nevermind the d/p weaponset as a whole alongside shortbow right?

>

> d/p and s/d is the best for thief in the game. Just stop. Spamming 1 in stealth until you get a backstab is not healthy, never was.

>

> Learn how to anticipate where they're going based on movement , you can also SS to backstab which would take a minimal knowledge of enemy's defensives and their cooldowns and counting dodges but judging from your posts, I highly doubt this advice will stick because you want it easy.

>

> Thief is already broken with d/p alone with pressure, cc, gap closing on 3, autos buffed and not to mention with SB you dominate conquest on movement alone.

>

> Backstab is fine as is, serves its purpose in PvP/WvW

>

> PvE can be a different story but since I hardly PvE , condi is most likely better in all aspects anyway or you'd do more DPS camping staff with zerker.

 

What does this have to do with my response to the quoted text? Unless you quoted me by accident.