Leonidrex.5649 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 watching thief complaining about being weak is oddly pleasurable, is this the thing everyone talks about? is this why everyone whined on mesmer? lol. its nice to not be alone on the wrong end of the fence for once, kick back relax and grab yourself corona beer. we here to stay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"bluri.2653" said: > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > > Thief is awful, only reason we won the games is 1. Mesmer and portal and mes+rev damage makes me able to kill stuff. Try run thief without mes and rev and ill laugh. You run around and dont kill anything in organized 5v5. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you look at my vods only reason we successfully kill something is us zerging 3v1 > > > > > > > (Mes thief and rev) > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no mirages but nearly everyone are playing thief (not shadow arts). > > > > > > Arent you playing SA/trickery/drd? So you have uncontested mobility, cleanses,perma stealth and want oneshot level damage? It doesnt work like that > > > > > > > > > > Lmao ur so delusional its hilarious. > > > > > Perma cleanse/stealth???? sa gives me 2sec stealth on heal ? my cleanse is in stealth with an interval per 3sec. > > > > > > > > > > DA burst is 600 more dmg id still not kill anything. What does my mobility do if i cant kill anything? Only reason we kill rn is cus we zerged 3v1 w portal or just together. > > > > > > > > > > Compare it to HoT didnt thief have uncontestwd mobility back then but suffered the same problem? You couldnt kill anything in a +1 and what happened? Ppl dropped thief. The only time thief came back was near end of hot when all sustain was lowered so thief could +1 > > > > > > > > Since you mentioned Thief in HoT (DrD by default)... You have near perma condi cleanse, cannot be rooted, cannot be bursted cuz your stun breaks are conveniently the MUST HAVE utilities. Well then... > > > > > > And what did drd achieve in hot near the end by having all of those things? It wasnt played for any major tournament for whole HoT. > > > But it had everything you said yet wasnt played! > > > > > > We are basically at that stage rn for thief, exact same position. > > > > Yes we're in the same situation, but for Mesmer. > > Mesmer is for sure better than thief rn, the boonrip is amazing vs protholo + portal. > Optimal comp id say rn at least for some matches would be 2x power rev fb/tempest(depending on map) and mirage+protholo > @"bluri.2653" said: > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > > Thief is awful, only reason we won the games is 1. Mesmer and portal and mes+rev damage makes me able to kill stuff. Try run thief without mes and rev and ill laugh. You run around and dont kill anything in organized 5v5. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you look at my vods only reason we successfully kill something is us zerging 3v1 > > > > > > > (Mes thief and rev) > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no mirages but nearly everyone are playing thief (not shadow arts). > > > > > > Arent you playing SA/trickery/drd? So you have uncontested mobility, cleanses,perma stealth and want oneshot level damage? It doesnt work like that > > > > > > > > > > Lmao ur so delusional its hilarious. > > > > > Perma cleanse/stealth???? sa gives me 2sec stealth on heal ? my cleanse is in stealth with an interval per 3sec. > > > > > > > > > > DA burst is 600 more dmg id still not kill anything. What does my mobility do if i cant kill anything? Only reason we kill rn is cus we zerged 3v1 w portal or just together. > > > > > > > > > > Compare it to HoT didnt thief have uncontestwd mobility back then but suffered the same problem? You couldnt kill anything in a +1 and what happened? Ppl dropped thief. The only time thief came back was near end of hot when all sustain was lowered so thief could +1 > > > > > > > > Since you mentioned Thief in HoT (DrD by default)... You have near perma condi cleanse, cannot be rooted, cannot be bursted cuz your stun breaks are conveniently the MUST HAVE utilities. Well then... > > > > > > And what did drd achieve in hot near the end by having all of those things? It wasnt played for any major tournament for whole HoT. > > > But it had everything you said yet wasnt played! > > > > > > We are basically at that stage rn for thief, exact same position. > > > > Yes we're in the same situation, but for Mesmer. > > Mesmer is for sure better than thief rn, the boonrip is amazing vs protholo + portal. > Optimal comp id say rn at least for some matches would be 2x power rev fb/tempest(depending on map) and mirage+protholo Didn't thief do endless fight vs mes currently ? It interest me because on the paper, you can't really get condi bursted considering the condi output that can't be anticipate from mes and during the 72 portal CD, you can to twice the rotation a meta mes can do. Mean I'm not sure a mirror comp of 2x power rev fb/tempest(depending on map) and mirage+protholo versus the same with a thief instead of the mes will win this easily : If you go for a decap, you immobilize a ennemy guys better for teamfight during the recap or you do endless fight versus mes which at last nullify portal, even if he drop portal, you can pressuring the decap during the CD. And in regards to teamfight mes contribution, it's around a 20 sec CD condi burst + a 32 sec CD debuff. So yeah it's better to what thief can output now but you are more mobile. Btw It's all about comboing class to make them work. Note that I took a 12k backstab followed by a 11 k heartseeker combo yesterday on temple map (so no map boosts). Dunno what build he was running (daredevil) of if 3 moons were aligned but it seems the damage can be here, I was running the current meta mes build (should take a pic of it, will screen next time I meet this thing;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArlAlt.1630 Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"viquing.8254" said: > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > > > Thief is awful, only reason we won the games is 1. Mesmer and portal and mes+rev damage makes me able to kill stuff. Try run thief without mes and rev and ill laugh. You run around and dont kill anything in organized 5v5. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you look at my vods only reason we successfully kill something is us zerging 3v1 > > > > > > > > (Mes thief and rev) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no mirages but nearly everyone are playing thief (not shadow arts). > > > > > > > Arent you playing SA/trickery/drd? So you have uncontested mobility, cleanses,perma stealth and want oneshot level damage? It doesnt work like that > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao ur so delusional its hilarious. > > > > > > Perma cleanse/stealth???? sa gives me 2sec stealth on heal ? my cleanse is in stealth with an interval per 3sec. > > > > > > > > > > > > DA burst is 600 more dmg id still not kill anything. What does my mobility do if i cant kill anything? Only reason we kill rn is cus we zerged 3v1 w portal or just together. > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare it to HoT didnt thief have uncontestwd mobility back then but suffered the same problem? You couldnt kill anything in a +1 and what happened? Ppl dropped thief. The only time thief came back was near end of hot when all sustain was lowered so thief could +1 > > > > > > > > > > Since you mentioned Thief in HoT (DrD by default)... You have near perma condi cleanse, cannot be rooted, cannot be bursted cuz your stun breaks are conveniently the MUST HAVE utilities. Well then... > > > > > > > > And what did drd achieve in hot near the end by having all of those things? It wasnt played for any major tournament for whole HoT. > > > > But it had everything you said yet wasnt played! > > > > > > > > We are basically at that stage rn for thief, exact same position. > > > > > > Yes we're in the same situation, but for Mesmer. > > > > Mesmer is for sure better than thief rn, the boonrip is amazing vs protholo + portal. > > Optimal comp id say rn at least for some matches would be 2x power rev fb/tempest(depending on map) and mirage+protholo > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > > > Thief is awful, only reason we won the games is 1. Mesmer and portal and mes+rev damage makes me able to kill stuff. Try run thief without mes and rev and ill laugh. You run around and dont kill anything in organized 5v5. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you look at my vods only reason we successfully kill something is us zerging 3v1 > > > > > > > > (Mes thief and rev) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no mirages but nearly everyone are playing thief (not shadow arts). > > > > > > > Arent you playing SA/trickery/drd? So you have uncontested mobility, cleanses,perma stealth and want oneshot level damage? It doesnt work like that > > > > > > > > > > > > Lmao ur so delusional its hilarious. > > > > > > Perma cleanse/stealth???? sa gives me 2sec stealth on heal ? my cleanse is in stealth with an interval per 3sec. > > > > > > > > > > > > DA burst is 600 more dmg id still not kill anything. What does my mobility do if i cant kill anything? Only reason we kill rn is cus we zerged 3v1 w portal or just together. > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare it to HoT didnt thief have uncontestwd mobility back then but suffered the same problem? You couldnt kill anything in a +1 and what happened? Ppl dropped thief. The only time thief came back was near end of hot when all sustain was lowered so thief could +1 > > > > > > > > > > Since you mentioned Thief in HoT (DrD by default)... You have near perma condi cleanse, cannot be rooted, cannot be bursted cuz your stun breaks are conveniently the MUST HAVE utilities. Well then... > > > > > > > > And what did drd achieve in hot near the end by having all of those things? It wasnt played for any major tournament for whole HoT. > > > > But it had everything you said yet wasnt played! > > > > > > > > We are basically at that stage rn for thief, exact same position. > > > > > > Yes we're in the same situation, but for Mesmer. > > > > Mesmer is for sure better than thief rn, the boonrip is amazing vs protholo + portal. > > Optimal comp id say rn at least for some matches would be 2x power rev fb/tempest(depending on map) and mirage+protholo > > Didn't thief do endless fight vs mes currently ? > It interest me because on the paper, you can't really get condi bursted considering the condi output that can't be anticipate from mes and during the 72 portal CD, you can to twice the rotation a meta mes can do. > Mean I'm not sure a mirror comp of 2x power rev fb/tempest(depending on map) and mirage+protholo versus the same with a thief instead of the mes will win this easily : > If you go for a decap, you immobilize a ennemy guys better for teamfight during the recap or you do endless fight versus mes which at last nullify portal, even if he drop portal, you can pressuring the decap during the CD. And in regards to teamfight mes contribution, it's around a 20 sec CD condi burst + a 32 sec CD debuff. So yeah it's better to what thief can output now but you are more mobile. > Btw It's all about comboing class to make them work. > > Note that I took a 12k backstab followed by a 11 k heartseeker combo yesterday on temple map (so no map boosts). Dunno what build he was running (daredevil) of if 3 moons were aligned but it seems the damage can be here, I was running the current meta mes build (should take a pic of it, will screen next time I meet this thing;). > Wait until Sindrener explains to you exactly how Thief is much worse than Mes and illustrate with VoDs exactly how UP thief is. @"bluri.2653" Explain to me exactly why would anyone not get a thief in their comp. This is the point of the thread after all, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 both thief and mes arent very strong so they compete for the mobility slot mes has good boonrip and dmg though so i guess mes is preferred revs, necs, fb are insanely strong you can just stack them but for the 5th slot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Thief and mes should not be competing. The devs need to decide on the identity and role of mes, because thief's role is solid in concrete. (the true medium opposite of mes is ranger anyways, so i imagine they are filling that similar role) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > Thief and mes should not be competing. > > The devs need to decide on the identity and role of mes, because thief's role is solid in concrete. > > (the true medium opposite of mes is ranger anyways, so i imagine they are filling that similar role) I kinda wish thieves role wasnt solid in concrete. Itd be nice to have a thief that can actually be a competent duelist, but I guess as long as shortbow 5 exists, thats a pipedream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > I kinda wish thieves role wasnt solid in concrete. Itd be nice to have a thief that can actually be a competent duelist, but I guess as long as shortbow 5 exists, thats a pipedream. Make a thread "Remove Shortbow 5" AFAIK, mirage was supposed to be a duelist thief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > I kinda wish thieves role wasnt solid in concrete. Itd be nice to have a thief that can actually be a competent duelist, but I guess as long as shortbow 5 exists, thats a pipedream. > > Make a thread "Remove Shortbow 5" > Too many people enjoy the playstyle shortbow 5 provides. Im not selfish enough to take away their toy so I can have mine. Besides, I do have other classes I can play and enjoy playing, and its what Ive been doing. > AFAIK, mirage was supposed to be a duelist thief. Thief was supposed to the duelist thief. Hell, their original introduction even called them "Deadly duelists". For a long time, they even were. They just lost power over time before becoming what they are today. Mirage does have similarities to thief (arguably doing stealth attacks better than actual stealth attacks, because instead of needing to go into stealth, which takes a long time and is just free damage, you simply enter mirage cloak which prevents you from being hit and can be as fast as instant), but theyre still on a different axis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution.5409 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 It almost seems that Mesmer Main are sad that their profession is still usable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Nothing I said was wrong or ever wrong, nor should ppl believe fotm troll posts like that... Btw at least on NA meta dp is by far weaker, not sure if ppl running burst comps on EU or something hence making it more popular than it should be, it’s definitely good, but I always play what build is best based on comp and I’m at s/d for like 80% of matches right now and am sitting just under legend solo q. Thief seems just super good rn and I can find a few decent builds based on comp, which I find minimizes any actual trade off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 You can simply watch my placements to see how good thief is rn. besides maybe the first match which was a complete blow out where I didn’t have to do much to see how almost ever win was literally me pushing map control for every win. Many of those matches seemed to be instant losses but I usually did very good leading to a sudden swing in points later in the match- https://m.twitch.tv/videos/576024483 This was 9-1 placements and since then I still haven’t lost a match all solo q where my rating is like top 5 rn and as far as I know I am also the only person that has solo qd during prime time in top 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > Can't wait for the mathematician to chime in, say its all false and call you all a bunch of liars B) > > > > > > > > Called it. =) > > > > > > > > > > What, youre surprised that I would call them out for saying something people know well to be impossible? We know thieves damage. We have seen it. Its not even half as good as Core Nade Engineers damage. And much as I love that build, its not even top tier. > > > > We know, you don't. > > No, you clearly dont. And I clearly do. Sure flat-earther. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > I kinda wish thieves role wasnt solid in concrete. Itd be nice to have a thief that can actually be a competent duelist, but I guess as long as shortbow 5 exists, thats a pipedream. > > Make a thread "Remove Shortbow 5" > > AFAIK, mirage was supposed to be a duelist thief. Mesmer was supposed to be a duelist, it is in their core description. The mobility part was not. Chop at mobility and beef up dueling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > I kinda wish thieves role wasnt solid in concrete. Itd be nice to have a thief that can actually be a competent duelist, but I guess as long as shortbow 5 exists, thats a pipedream. > > > > Make a thread "Remove Shortbow 5" > > > > AFAIK, mirage was supposed to be a duelist thief. > > Mesmer was supposed to be a duelist, it is in their core description. > > The mobility part was not. > > Chop at mobility and beef up dueling. What mobility you want to remove?????? Blink? And it would be less mobile than necromancer. :joy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"Revolution.5409" said: > It almost seems that Mesmer Main are sad that their profession is still usable. As a Multiclass player, means not a Mesmer main, i can tell you what makes me sad: It is, that once again only some condi kitten is semi viable (when getting babysitted like crazy only), while the way more healthy for the game and way more skilled power playstyle (something i prefer to fight against no matter what class i play) is completely overnerfed but also dumbed down in the same time for the sake of nerfing one op condi build. While the one dodge change doesn't even solve the issues of the Mirage traitline (like the condi ambushes are still bad designed, still passive and op, Chaosline is still a passive low skill ceiling traitline, only that Mirages are pressured out of those things makes that irrelevant atm). Anet just nerfed around the problems of the spec with the unnecessary spin off costs of deleting skill ceiling from the traitline as a whole just as deleting tactical deepness and mechanical complexity and also overnerf power playstyle as a spin off. The worst part of that is, that there are way better ways available to bring down Condimirage to the current lvl (when this lv is what Anet wants) without all the unnecessary costs i just described. A way that even would add way more skill requirement to the Mirage traitline than it has atm and ever had until now. And that way is, to give 2 dodges back and instead reworking condi ambushes into something more active, not about condi dmg but more about effects the player needs to work with tactically and differently timed from only defensive dodges to make well timed outplays with it and also delete passive condi dmg from normal clone autoattacks. Mirage offers that many fine adjustment tools to balance different builds from that spec by its own, without affecting other palystyles not op, and that by adjusting ambushes, so that the one dodge - sledge hammer nerf which cut all builds unnecessary (even the not op and skillful powerbuilds) is just a stupid nonsense low effort way. The current Mesmer meta avoids literally all real Mirage specific mechanics, like IH/ambushes as much as possible (because the mechanic is overnerfed, while still being low skill ceiling and passive on condi due to bad designed condi ambushes) and is only not just core in the first place because all that is left from Mirage makes it worth taking over core is the mobility and the one Mirage mechanic that is low skill ceiling and toxic retargeting (incl. the low skill ceiling weapon axe), while retargeting should not exist in the first place and should have been the first gets deleted to make Mirage less oppressive. The current meta build itself is still ez to play but more near to a core Mesmer than really a Mirage, taken only for portal and boon rip what are core abilities (just as all the dmg is not coming from any Mirage specific stuff anymore except of axe) and that low skill build even only works when you have at least 1-2 good ppl in team babysitting, protecting and peeling for it like crazy and that even in a team that is overall clearly stronger than all others anyway. The build has mechanical low skill ceiling (just as most condi builds in GW2 due to the bad design of condis and because all it uses from Mirage traitline are passive and low skill ceiling traits) while being mostly based on core mechanics. The only fact makes it harder to play than old Condimirage is, that it is not a simple side node duel bot anymore but a rotational +1 build with portal, what leads to a higher rotational skill requirement. Mechancially it is easy as hell and still annoying to deal with, based on only passive and toxic Mirage elements and oppressive designed condis in general. No other class needs to be babysitted and peeled for that hard to make one (low skill ceiling - with boring condi gameplay) build work in an anyway dominating team, while skillful Powermirage builds are completely dead. That is not a state you would like to have for your main class in i guess? In particular when you are someone wants to play a more skillful playstyle on your class while still being useful and not perma dead when not 1-2 teammates peel for you 24/7, but those skilful power builds just get nuked out of orbit for the sake of nerfing one op condi build without even solving the balance issues of that op playstyle by its roots. If you are able to look outside of the small box of your own main class, you should easy be able to empathize with Mesmer mains and understand why the current Mesmer state is nothing to be happy about. In particular in terms of even lower skill ceiling of the Mirage traitline itself. And as a mutliclass player, who has to face Mesmers more than playing it myself, i prefer to fight vs viable but way more skillful and fairer and more healthy for the game desinged Powermesmer/mirage builds over any condi or hybrid kitten on Mesmer/Mirage, means it is even in my own advantage as a not Mesmer main to vote for balance changes adding skill ceiling to Condimirage instead deleting it from the whole spec. Logical isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > I kinda wish thieves role wasnt solid in concrete. Itd be nice to have a thief that can actually be a competent duelist, but I guess as long as shortbow 5 exists, thats a pipedream. > > > > Make a thread "Remove Shortbow 5" > > > > Too many people enjoy the playstyle shortbow 5 provides. Im not selfish enough to take away their toy so I can have mine. Besides, I do have other classes I can play and enjoy playing, and its what Ive been doing. > > > AFAIK, mirage was supposed to be a duelist thief. > > Thief was supposed to the duelist thief. Hell, their original introduction even called them "Deadly duelists". For a long time, they even were. They just lost power over time before becoming what they are today. Mirage does have similarities to thief (arguably doing stealth attacks better than actual stealth attacks, because instead of needing to go into stealth, which takes a long time and is just free damage, you simply enter mirage cloak which prevents you from being hit and can be as fast as instant), but theyre still on a different axis. mirage cloak .... its a dodge which doesnt give the extra distance travel of a normal dodge ... he cannot come closer faster ... you know where he is ..he cannot escape the aoes+slow radius while in stealth Thief has 3 dodges in the spec of Daredevil , that allow you to reposition away from them . Other mesmer stealth have a huge cd ...and the dont offer a leap mechanic (Blackpowder + Heartsseker ) , to come faster at you or run away . You exactly know where they are . (you broke the rule ...in the other thread you said that theif can keep the Stealth mechanic unscathe , if the burst is lowered ...and now you say that 8700 is not absurde or they should refound ppl for the bugfix of Assasin Signet which offered the old 15% damage as extra increase ..) ( kitten mesmers ...thank god the 9k bersker + 6k crit Warlocks summon pets , are not still here like 2013) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Nerf mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > I kinda wish thieves role wasnt solid in concrete. Itd be nice to have a thief that can actually be a competent duelist, but I guess as long as shortbow 5 exists, thats a pipedream. > > > > Make a thread "Remove Shortbow 5" > > > > AFAIK, mirage was supposed to be a duelist thief. > > Mesmer was supposed to be a duelist, it is in their core description. > > The mobility part was not. > > Chop at mobility and beef up dueling. Just as all classes also Mesmer and Mirage is supposed to have different playstyles (for example Guards can be supporter but also teamfight-/ roational dmg dealer). Just that Anet seems to favor the more braindead condi playstyles for Mesmer. Like pressuring Mirage into condi while IH and ambushes on power are way better and healthier and higher skill ceiling designed. If Anet wants to pressure and limit Mesmer or Mirage into only one playstyle than it should be rotational power, because that is clearly the healthiest, best balanced and hardest to play, fairest and the least annoying to deal with as an opponent. Sadly Anet does quite the opposite and kills Powerbuilds on Mesmer as if they are not relevant in their world at all and that for the sake of nerfing an in general low skill ceiling condi playstyle to fit an equally braindead meta (while not even solving the balance issues of the one op playstyle at all). The game would be so much better if just everything else (every build on Mesmer and every other class) would be balanced down to the skill requirement lvl and power lvl of a post patch (but with 2 dodges) Powermesmer/mirage. That would be a meta i would enjoy on all classes. Sadly all low skilled casuals and all the wannabe good special snowflakes with more ego than skill would probably leave the game then, when they can't find anything to carry their low skill anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"Odik.4587" said: > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > I kinda wish thieves role wasnt solid in concrete. Itd be nice to have a thief that can actually be a competent duelist, but I guess as long as shortbow 5 exists, thats a pipedream. > > > > > > Make a thread "Remove Shortbow 5" > > > > > > AFAIK, mirage was supposed to be a duelist thief. > > > > Mesmer was supposed to be a duelist, it is in their core description. > > > > The mobility part was not. > > > > Chop at mobility and beef up dueling. > What mobility you want to remove?????? Blink? And it would be less mobile than necromancer. :joy: I mean, Sword Ambush would probably be the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > I kinda wish thieves role wasnt solid in concrete. Itd be nice to have a thief that can actually be a competent duelist, but I guess as long as shortbow 5 exists, thats a pipedream. > > > > > > Make a thread "Remove Shortbow 5" > > > > > > > Too many people enjoy the playstyle shortbow 5 provides. Im not selfish enough to take away their toy so I can have mine. Besides, I do have other classes I can play and enjoy playing, and its what Ive been doing. > > > > > AFAIK, mirage was supposed to be a duelist thief. > > > > Thief was supposed to the duelist thief. Hell, their original introduction even called them "Deadly duelists". For a long time, they even were. They just lost power over time before becoming what they are today. Mirage does have similarities to thief (arguably doing stealth attacks better than actual stealth attacks, because instead of needing to go into stealth, which takes a long time and is just free damage, you simply enter mirage cloak which prevents you from being hit and can be as fast as instant), but theyre still on a different axis. > > mirage cloak .... its a dodge which doesnt give the extra distance travel of a normal dodge ... he cannot come closer faster ... you know where he is ..he cannot escape the aoes+slow radius while in stealth It gives extra movement speed. I think total distance covered during it is *slightly* less than a dodge? Not sure, I didnt care to memorize the numbers. And yeah he can come closer faster. And he doesnt need to escape anything, he is dodging the damage. > Thief has 3 dodges in the spec of Daredevil , that allow you to reposition away from them . > > Other mesmer stealth have a huge cd ...and the dont offer a leap mechanic (Blackpowder + Heartsseker ) , to come faster at you or run away > Were not talking about stealth. Were talking about stealth *attacks*. Pretty much the only reason to use stealth. Ambushes are better stealth attacks. Conceptually, at any rate. There is a reason backstab and sneak attack are the only ones that see play (oh and DJ, but only once they forced it into a stealth attack). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > I kinda wish thieves role wasnt solid in concrete. Itd be nice to have a thief that can actually be a competent duelist, but I guess as long as shortbow 5 exists, thats a pipedream. > > > > > > > > Make a thread "Remove Shortbow 5" > > > > > > > > > > Too many people enjoy the playstyle shortbow 5 provides. Im not selfish enough to take away their toy so I can have mine. Besides, I do have other classes I can play and enjoy playing, and its what Ive been doing. > > > > > > > AFAIK, mirage was supposed to be a duelist thief. > > > > > > Thief was supposed to the duelist thief. Hell, their original introduction even called them "Deadly duelists". For a long time, they even were. They just lost power over time before becoming what they are today. Mirage does have similarities to thief (arguably doing stealth attacks better than actual stealth attacks, because instead of needing to go into stealth, which takes a long time and is just free damage, you simply enter mirage cloak which prevents you from being hit and can be as fast as instant), but theyre still on a different axis. > > > > mirage cloak .... its a dodge which doesnt give the extra distance travel of a normal dodge ... he cannot come closer faster ... you know where he is ..he cannot escape the aoes+slow radius while in stealth > > It gives extra movement speed. I think total distance covered during it is *slightly* less than a dodge? Not sure, I didnt care to memorize the numbers. And yeah he can come closer faster. And he doesnt need to escape anything, he is dodging the damage. > > > Thief has 3 dodges in the spec of Daredevil , that allow you to reposition away from them . > > > > Other mesmer stealth have a huge cd ...and the dont offer a leap mechanic (Blackpowder + Heartsseker ) , to come faster at you or run away > > > > Were not talking about stealth. Were talking about stealth *attacks*. Pretty much the only reason to use stealth. Ambushes are better stealth attacks. Conceptually, at any rate. There is a reason backstab and sneak attack are the only ones that see play (oh and DJ, but only once they forced it into a stealth attack). > > > Its exactly the same mobility as walking , you simply get ''an immune'' to incoming attacks''buffs . When in combat your movement speed it reduced dramatically . Dodging in all classes , ignores any slow/cripple effects and allow to reposition yourself out of the aoes Do not lie to me again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > I kinda wish thieves role wasnt solid in concrete. Itd be nice to have a thief that can actually be a competent duelist, but I guess as long as shortbow 5 exists, thats a pipedream. > > > > > > > > > > Make a thread "Remove Shortbow 5" > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many people enjoy the playstyle shortbow 5 provides. Im not selfish enough to take away their toy so I can have mine. Besides, I do have other classes I can play and enjoy playing, and its what Ive been doing. > > > > > > > > > AFAIK, mirage was supposed to be a duelist thief. > > > > > > > > Thief was supposed to the duelist thief. Hell, their original introduction even called them "Deadly duelists". For a long time, they even were. They just lost power over time before becoming what they are today. Mirage does have similarities to thief (arguably doing stealth attacks better than actual stealth attacks, because instead of needing to go into stealth, which takes a long time and is just free damage, you simply enter mirage cloak which prevents you from being hit and can be as fast as instant), but theyre still on a different axis. > > > > > > mirage cloak .... its a dodge which doesnt give the extra distance travel of a normal dodge ... he cannot come closer faster ... you know where he is ..he cannot escape the aoes+slow radius while in stealth > > > > It gives extra movement speed. I think total distance covered during it is *slightly* less than a dodge? Not sure, I didnt care to memorize the numbers. And yeah he can come closer faster. And he doesnt need to escape anything, he is dodging the damage. > > > > > Thief has 3 dodges in the spec of Daredevil , that allow you to reposition away from them . > > > > > > Other mesmer stealth have a huge cd ...and the dont offer a leap mechanic (Blackpowder + Heartsseker ) , to come faster at you or run away > > > > > > > Were not talking about stealth. Were talking about stealth *attacks*. Pretty much the only reason to use stealth. Ambushes are better stealth attacks. Conceptually, at any rate. There is a reason backstab and sneak attack are the only ones that see play (oh and DJ, but only once they forced it into a stealth attack). > > > > > > > > Its exactly the same mobility as walking , you simply get ''an immune'' to incoming attacks''buffs . > When in combat your movement speed it reduced dramatically . > Dodging in all classes , ignores any slow/cripple effects and allow to reposition yourself out of the aoes > > Do not lie to me again Not wise to talk about a class you dont know the traits off. Grandmaster minor, Speed of Sand. Mirage cloak grants 66% increased movement speed. They move significantly faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > I kinda wish thieves role wasnt solid in concrete. Itd be nice to have a thief that can actually be a competent duelist, but I guess as long as shortbow 5 exists, thats a pipedream. > > > > > > > > > > > > Make a thread "Remove Shortbow 5" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many people enjoy the playstyle shortbow 5 provides. Im not selfish enough to take away their toy so I can have mine. Besides, I do have other classes I can play and enjoy playing, and its what Ive been doing. > > > > > > > > > > > AFAIK, mirage was supposed to be a duelist thief. > > > > > > > > > > Thief was supposed to the duelist thief. Hell, their original introduction even called them "Deadly duelists". For a long time, they even were. They just lost power over time before becoming what they are today. Mirage does have similarities to thief (arguably doing stealth attacks better than actual stealth attacks, because instead of needing to go into stealth, which takes a long time and is just free damage, you simply enter mirage cloak which prevents you from being hit and can be as fast as instant), but theyre still on a different axis. > > > > > > > > mirage cloak .... its a dodge which doesnt give the extra distance travel of a normal dodge ... he cannot come closer faster ... you know where he is ..he cannot escape the aoes+slow radius while in stealth > > > > > > It gives extra movement speed. I think total distance covered during it is *slightly* less than a dodge? Not sure, I didnt care to memorize the numbers. And yeah he can come closer faster. And he doesnt need to escape anything, he is dodging the damage. > > > > > > > Thief has 3 dodges in the spec of Daredevil , that allow you to reposition away from them . > > > > > > > > Other mesmer stealth have a huge cd ...and the dont offer a leap mechanic (Blackpowder + Heartsseker ) , to come faster at you or run away > > > > > > > > > > Were not talking about stealth. Were talking about stealth *attacks*. Pretty much the only reason to use stealth. Ambushes are better stealth attacks. Conceptually, at any rate. There is a reason backstab and sneak attack are the only ones that see play (oh and DJ, but only once they forced it into a stealth attack). > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its exactly the same mobility as walking , you simply get ''an immune'' to incoming attacks''buffs . > > When in combat your movement speed it reduced dramatically . > > Dodging in all classes , ignores any slow/cripple effects and allow to reposition yourself out of the aoes > > > > Do not lie to me again > > Not wise to talk about a class you dont know the traits off. Grandmaster minor, Speed of Sand. Mirage cloak grants 66% increased movement speed. They move significantly faster. Funny , neither should you :) Because its 66% out of combat and more likely 30-31% in combat , while the ones having Swiftness are dropped to 25% , while superspeeed ignoring every rule with 35% + ignore slow And when you have cripple/slow , the benefit drops to 2-3% + 0 dodges for Mirages Lets have peace for 1 week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"Odik.4587" said: > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > I kinda wish thieves role wasnt solid in concrete. Itd be nice to have a thief that can actually be a competent duelist, but I guess as long as shortbow 5 exists, thats a pipedream. > > > > > > Make a thread "Remove Shortbow 5" > > > > > > AFAIK, mirage was supposed to be a duelist thief. > > > > Mesmer was supposed to be a duelist, it is in their core description. > > > > The mobility part was not. > > > > Chop at mobility and beef up dueling. > What mobility you want to remove?????? Blink? And it would be less mobile than necromancer. :joy: They can remove the leap off sword for mirage, but I was talking in general though. But mirage will still have more invuln, evades, detargets and stealth than a necro. When mirage had 2 dodges, a power mirage was very mobile. They can look into beefing the dueling, but ranged escape can not go up from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > I kinda wish thieves role wasnt solid in concrete. Itd be nice to have a thief that can actually be a competent duelist, but I guess as long as shortbow 5 exists, thats a pipedream. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Make a thread "Remove Shortbow 5" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too many people enjoy the playstyle shortbow 5 provides. Im not selfish enough to take away their toy so I can have mine. Besides, I do have other classes I can play and enjoy playing, and its what Ive been doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > AFAIK, mirage was supposed to be a duelist thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thief was supposed to the duelist thief. Hell, their original introduction even called them "Deadly duelists". For a long time, they even were. They just lost power over time before becoming what they are today. Mirage does have similarities to thief (arguably doing stealth attacks better than actual stealth attacks, because instead of needing to go into stealth, which takes a long time and is just free damage, you simply enter mirage cloak which prevents you from being hit and can be as fast as instant), but theyre still on a different axis. > > > > > > > > > > mirage cloak .... its a dodge which doesnt give the extra distance travel of a normal dodge ... he cannot come closer faster ... you know where he is ..he cannot escape the aoes+slow radius while in stealth > > > > > > > > It gives extra movement speed. I think total distance covered during it is *slightly* less than a dodge? Not sure, I didnt care to memorize the numbers. And yeah he can come closer faster. And he doesnt need to escape anything, he is dodging the damage. > > > > > > > > > Thief has 3 dodges in the spec of Daredevil , that allow you to reposition away from them . > > > > > > > > > > Other mesmer stealth have a huge cd ...and the dont offer a leap mechanic (Blackpowder + Heartsseker ) , to come faster at you or run away > > > > > > > > > > > > > Were not talking about stealth. Were talking about stealth *attacks*. Pretty much the only reason to use stealth. Ambushes are better stealth attacks. Conceptually, at any rate. There is a reason backstab and sneak attack are the only ones that see play (oh and DJ, but only once they forced it into a stealth attack). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its exactly the same mobility as walking , you simply get ''an immune'' to incoming attacks''buffs . > > > When in combat your movement speed it reduced dramatically . > > > Dodging in all classes , ignores any slow/cripple effects and allow to reposition yourself out of the aoes > > > > > > Do not lie to me again > > > > Not wise to talk about a class you dont know the traits off. Grandmaster minor, Speed of Sand. Mirage cloak grants 66% increased movement speed. They move significantly faster. > > Funny , neither should you :) > Because its 66% out of combat and more likely 30-31% in combat , while the ones having Swiftness are dropped to 25% > And when you have cripple/slow , the benefit drops to 2-3% > ... no, thats not how it works. Its 66% of your current movement speed added. Thats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now