Balance of Condi and Power

[lare.5129]

why you think that most people interested balance??

[pninak.1069]

power builds give a higher spiker quicker condi needs to ramp up. most of the time autoattacks from weapons such as fragmentation shot do abyssmal dps. so the classes need setup time before they reach their highest dps. if you got 100% condi duration with use of tb setup with a bunch of rabid amulets you get 2k dmg done by bleeding and 100 dmg by the auto. 2k. you do 100 dps during one stack of bleeding. then you got power which can go to 7k crit or above directly. condi just forces power builds to use more defensive traits while still being aggressive in taking down the enemy.

[schloumou.3982]

> @"briggah.7910" said:

> yawn. same complaints , different year

 

By the same people, that can't name a single condi skill that hit them. Better discuss cONdidMG instead of adressing overperforming builds because all condiskills do absurd damage like Fragmentation_Shot.

[pninak.1069]

zerkers are just butthurt, because they don't use condi cleanse or are inexperienced with certain classes. if you look at the poll for condi cleases you will see that most people got 1-2 condi cleanse while others got 3-4 rarly 7-8 and very rarly 8+. so there is the issue. players don't use enough condi cleases.

[Jski.6180]

What it comes down to is that power dmg needs 3 effect to be viable and there are many counter effects out side of classes such as dmg -% food and protection boon as well as aura and even rune set that give -% dmg. Condi only needs 1 effect and there are far less dmg -% for condi in the game at all levels.

 

Its always going to be out of balance.

[GUFF.5692]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> What it comes down to is that power dmg needs 3 effect to be viable and there are many counter effects out side of classes such as dmg -% food and protection boon as well as aura and even rune set that give -% dmg. Condi only needs 1 effect and there are far less dmg -% for condi in the game at all levels.

>

> Its always going to be out of balance.

 

Pretty much this. As long as ANET handles condition damage and power damage differently there will never be balance between the two in WvW and to a lesser extent sPvP.

 

Stealth, Boon and CC Spam have also not been properly balanced. Only power has been "balanced". I really hope ANET brings these other areas in line in the next patch.

[Stajan.4581]

Here is an example of how condi is broken in the wrong way, 1 bonefire does not apply the 9 ticks it says 2 the 12K damage is not done the way it should be, 3 with bonfire in 2.5 seconds almost anything should be half way dead if not fully depending on the class but it is not the case as they never take the 12K because the 9 ticks are never applied

 

[God.2708]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> What it comes down to is that power dmg needs 3 effect to be viable and there are many counter effects out side of classes such as dmg -% food and protection boon as well as aura and even rune set that give -% dmg. Condi only needs 1 effect and there are far less dmg -% for condi in the game at all levels.

>

> Its always going to be out of balance.

 

This comes up all the time and it's factually untrue.

 

[Warrior with Sword in full Dire](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAwA-zxIY8ogHA-e)

 

[Warrior with Axe in full Soldier](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAcA-zRIYSUwDA-e)

 

Damage levels are very comparable, especially when you consider that many of the condis won't get their full duration due to cleansing.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> What it comes down to is that power dmg needs 3 effect to be viable and there are many counter effects out side of classes such as dmg -% food and protection boon as well as aura and even rune set that give -% dmg. Condi only needs 1 effect and there are far less dmg -% for condi in the game at all levels.

>

> Its always going to be out of balance.

 

Against power there's the following commonly available things

 

Protection 33%

Toughness

-10% food

Frost aura 10%

There's exactly 1 fine that reduces dmg taken, that's mercy runes, while ressing, 20%

A small number of take 5-15% less dmg from power dmg, usually conditional

 

Against condition damage there's the following commonly available things

 

Resistance 100%!!

Dark aura 20%

Light aura 10%

20% less duration food

 

A large amount of runes with - % duration condi, usually on the 25% range

 

Condition clears, sigil of cleansing can cut dmg condi dmg taken by more than 50% in smaller fights (which is the only place condi is relevant)

 

Specifically antitoxin runes, makes you essentially immune to condi

 

A number of traits with 20-35% less condi dmg taken, a lot of them quite easy to trigger (righteous rebel, second skin etc)

 

Boon conversion/Condition transfer

 

There's a lot of things you can say about condi vs power but that the tools to fight condition dmg doesn't exist is just flat out incorrect. There's a lot more ways to combat condi dmg than there is to combat power dmg.

 

Also condi needs toughness/vit in a way power doesn't, your dmg isn't bursty which also doesn't lend itself to a high mobility build either.

 

Now the exceptions to condi = low burst definitively should get some reworks, but that's hardly indicative of the dmg type being flawed.

[pninak.1069]

and condi needs 2 stats. power doesn't even need ferocity, because power is more important than ferocity. so we have: power, precision - condition dmg, expertise

 

and since ferocity increases crit dmg condi needs more toughness to counter it leading to: ferocity- toughness

[Shroud.2307]

> @"God.2708" said:

> This comes up all the time and it's factually untrue.

>

> [Warrior with Sword in full Dire](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAwA-zxIY8ogHA-e)

>

> [Warrior with Axe in full Soldier](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAcA-zRIYSUwDA-e)

>

> Damage levels are very comparable, especially when you consider that many of the condis won't get their full duration due to cleansing.

 

-

 

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

>

> Against power there's the following commonly available things

>

> Protection 33%

> Toughness

> -10% food

> Frost aura 10%

> There's exactly 1 fine that reduces dmg taken, that's mercy runes, while ressing, 20%

> A small number of take 5-15% less dmg from power dmg, usually conditional

>

> Against condition damage there's the following commonly available things

>

> Resistance 100%!!

> Dark aura 20%

> Light aura 10%

> 20% less duration food

>

> A large amount of runes with - % duration condi, usually on the 25% range

>

> Condition clears, sigil of cleansing can cut dmg condi dmg taken by more than 50% in smaller fights (which is the only place condi is relevant)

>

> Specifically antitoxin runes, makes you essentially immune to condi

>

> A number of traits with 20-35% less condi dmg taken, a lot of them quite easy to trigger (righteous rebel, second skin etc)

>

> Boon conversion/Condition transfer

>

> There's a lot of things you can say about condi vs power but that the tools to fight condition dmg doesn't exist is just flat out incorrect. There's a lot more ways to combat condi dmg than there is to combat power dmg.

>

> Also condi needs toughness/vit in a way power doesn't, your dmg isn't bursty which also doesn't lend itself to a high mobility build either.

>

> Now the exceptions to condi = low burst definitively should get some reworks, but that's hardly indicative of the dmg type being flawed.

 

Thank you again both of you for speaking sense. I'm so beyond tired of these threads I've run out of ways to simplify or explain things to people who refuse to learn.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"God.2708" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > What it comes down to is that power dmg needs 3 effect to be viable and there are many counter effects out side of classes such as dmg -% food and protection boon as well as aura and even rune set that give -% dmg. Condi only needs 1 effect and there are far less dmg -% for condi in the game at all levels.

> >

> > Its always going to be out of balance.

>

> This comes up all the time and it's factually untrue.

>

> [Warrior with Sword in full Dire](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAwA-zxIY8ogHA-e)

>

> [Warrior with Axe in full Soldier](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAcA-zRIYSUwDA-e)

>

> Damage levels are very comparable, especially when you consider that many of the condis won't get their full duration due to cleansing.

 

Thats not a good example given that Warrior is not a good (or even viable) condi class, while a pretty powerful power class. Of course Dire will do as little damage as Soldier. The difference is Dire is a *very* viable statset, and Soldier is not. Realistically, a good condi build like Condi Rev in Dire will hit easily 3 times harder than a Warrior in Soldier gear.

[UNOwen.7132]

Alright, I see a lot of people saying "condi needs survivability because its damage isnt bursty", and thats just weird to me. Because A, not all power builds are burst builds. Many are in fact focused on sustained DPS. And B, most condi builds being played right now in fact *are* bursty as hell. Condi doesnt need the defensive tools. They just push it even further ahead. Hell take Condi Rev in WvW, theyre running Grieving because they can actually use the power damage as well, and dont need the defensive tools at all.

[God.2708]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"God.2708" said:

> > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > What it comes down to is that power dmg needs 3 effect to be viable and there are many counter effects out side of classes such as dmg -% food and protection boon as well as aura and even rune set that give -% dmg. Condi only needs 1 effect and there are far less dmg -% for condi in the game at all levels.

> > >

> > > Its always going to be out of balance.

> >

> > This comes up all the time and it's factually untrue.

> >

> > [Warrior with Sword in full Dire](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAwA-zxIY8ogHA-e)

> >

> > [Warrior with Axe in full Soldier](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAcA-zRIYSUwDA-e)

> >

> > Damage levels are very comparable, especially when you consider that many of the condis won't get their full duration due to cleansing.

>

> Thats not a good example given that Warrior is not a good (or even viable) condi class, while a pretty powerful power class. Of course Dire will do as little damage as Soldier. The difference is Dire is a *very* viable statset, and Soldier is not. Realistically, a good condi build like Condi Rev in Dire will hit easily 3 times harder than a Warrior in Soldier gear.

 

Pick a class then. Any class. I just did warrior because sword and axe are pretty standard thematic condi/power weapons

 

Edit: And Soldiers is just as viable as dire. In that you will not realistically kill anything that is good with it, and can kill things that are bad.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"God.2708" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"God.2708" said:

> > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > What it comes down to is that power dmg needs 3 effect to be viable and there are many counter effects out side of classes such as dmg -% food and protection boon as well as aura and even rune set that give -% dmg. Condi only needs 1 effect and there are far less dmg -% for condi in the game at all levels.

> > > >

> > > > Its always going to be out of balance.

> > >

> > > This comes up all the time and it's factually untrue.

> > >

> > > [Warrior with Sword in full Dire](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAwA-zxIY8ogHA-e)

> > >

> > > [Warrior with Axe in full Soldier](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAcA-zRIYSUwDA-e)

> > >

> > > Damage levels are very comparable, especially when you consider that many of the condis won't get their full duration due to cleansing.

> >

> > Thats not a good example given that Warrior is not a good (or even viable) condi class, while a pretty powerful power class. Of course Dire will do as little damage as Soldier. The difference is Dire is a *very* viable statset, and Soldier is not. Realistically, a good condi build like Condi Rev in Dire will hit easily 3 times harder than a Warrior in Soldier gear.

>

> Pick a class then. Any class. I just did warrior because sword and axe are pretty standard thematic condi/power weapons

 

I mean, I already gave an example, Revenant. Soldier Revenant will do a *fraction* of the damage a Dire revenant will. But really, take any class with powerful condi builds right now. Weaver, Guardian, Necro, hell even Thief.

[God.2708]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"God.2708" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"God.2708" said:

> > > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > > What it comes down to is that power dmg needs 3 effect to be viable and there are many counter effects out side of classes such as dmg -% food and protection boon as well as aura and even rune set that give -% dmg. Condi only needs 1 effect and there are far less dmg -% for condi in the game at all levels.

> > > > >

> > > > > Its always going to be out of balance.

> > > >

> > > > This comes up all the time and it's factually untrue.

> > > >

> > > > [Warrior with Sword in full Dire](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAwA-zxIY8ogHA-e)

> > > >

> > > > [Warrior with Axe in full Soldier](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAcA-zRIYSUwDA-e)

> > > >

> > > > Damage levels are very comparable, especially when you consider that many of the condis won't get their full duration due to cleansing.

> > >

> > > Thats not a good example given that Warrior is not a good (or even viable) condi class, while a pretty powerful power class. Of course Dire will do as little damage as Soldier. The difference is Dire is a *very* viable statset, and Soldier is not. Realistically, a good condi build like Condi Rev in Dire will hit easily 3 times harder than a Warrior in Soldier gear.

> >

> > Pick a class then. Any class. I just did warrior because sword and axe are pretty standard thematic condi/power weapons

>

> I mean, I already gave an example, Revenant. Soldier Revenant will do a *fraction* of the damage a Dire revenant will. But really, take any class with powerful condi builds right now. Weaver, Guardian, Necro, hell even Thief.

 

[soldiers Rev with sword](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmQAwlQMEyjQdEijQkEiAA-zRIYSUwDA-e)

 

[Dire Rev with Mace](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmQAklQIEKiQSECiQgESAA-zxIY8ogHA-e)

 

Looks pretty much the same to me. Condi has a small damage edge but again, clears would reduce their maximum expected output. This is also damage vs a 2.7k armor target, a glassier target would take way more from power (and the same from condi)

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"God.2708" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"God.2708" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"God.2708" said:

> > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > > > What it comes down to is that power dmg needs 3 effect to be viable and there are many counter effects out side of classes such as dmg -% food and protection boon as well as aura and even rune set that give -% dmg. Condi only needs 1 effect and there are far less dmg -% for condi in the game at all levels.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Its always going to be out of balance.

> > > > >

> > > > > This comes up all the time and it's factually untrue.

> > > > >

> > > > > [Warrior with Sword in full Dire](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAwA-zxIY8ogHA-e)

> > > > >

> > > > > [Warrior with Axe in full Soldier](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAcA-zRIYSUwDA-e)

> > > > >

> > > > > Damage levels are very comparable, especially when you consider that many of the condis won't get their full duration due to cleansing.

> > > >

> > > > Thats not a good example given that Warrior is not a good (or even viable) condi class, while a pretty powerful power class. Of course Dire will do as little damage as Soldier. The difference is Dire is a *very* viable statset, and Soldier is not. Realistically, a good condi build like Condi Rev in Dire will hit easily 3 times harder than a Warrior in Soldier gear.

> > >

> > > Pick a class then. Any class. I just did warrior because sword and axe are pretty standard thematic condi/power weapons

> >

> > I mean, I already gave an example, Revenant. Soldier Revenant will do a *fraction* of the damage a Dire revenant will. But really, take any class with powerful condi builds right now. Weaver, Guardian, Necro, hell even Thief.

>

> [soldiers Rev with sword](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmQAwlQMEyjQdEijQkEiAA-zRIYSUwDA-e)

>

> [Dire Rev with Mace](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmQAklQIEKiQSECiQgESAA-zxIY8ogHA-e)

>

> Looks pretty much the same to me. Condi has a small damage edge but again, clears would reduce their maximum expected output. This is also damage vs a 2.7k armor target, a glassier target would take way more from power (and the same from condi)

 

Stats-wise yeah, their survivability is the same. No duh, the only difference is power vs condi. Damage-wise? Its not a "slight edge", its such a massive gap you could run a river through it. Of course, you cant try it out in sPvP because you dont have either stat sets available. But we can approximate it. First, Power Rev using Sage's Amulet. It gives condi damage, but Power Rev doesnt apply condis much. Now, for a test. On the heavy target golem, using Sages, it took me 15 seconds to kill it, using everything at my disposal. Now with condi, sadly there wasnt a good stat combination to use there. I settled with Rabid, but damage is slightly inflated, keep that in mind. With that, I killed the same target in 5 seconds. Even with the slight damage up, thats a massive difference. Despite the fact that much of condi revs power is in its condi-sharing.

[Jski.6180]

> @"God.2708" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > What it comes down to is that power dmg needs 3 effect to be viable and there are many counter effects out side of classes such as dmg -% food and protection boon as well as aura and even rune set that give -% dmg. Condi only needs 1 effect and there are far less dmg -% for condi in the game at all levels.

> >

> > Its always going to be out of balance.

>

> This comes up all the time and it's factually untrue.

>

> [Warrior with Sword in full Dire](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAwA-zxIY8ogHA-e)

>

> [Warrior with Axe in full Soldier](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAcA-zRIYSUwDA-e)

>

> Damage levels are very comparable, especially when you consider that many of the condis won't get their full duration due to cleansing.

 

That has got to be the worst way to find out is something is balanced or not i have ever seen suggested. They are not even wvw build set up so the power dmg is super inflated.

 

Your all missing the point of condi vs power its not about doing max dmg its about being able to do other things and still getting good dmg. Condi not needing as many effect and being build in counter play lets classes branch out in to support rolls and even tank rolls something power dmg is lacking in combo of gear and is lacking in skill types.

 

This is not a suggestion for every thing to be balanced this is a suggestion for allowing power to fill rolls that condi dmg can and still do viable dmg. Its about looking at how the meta changed after a massive update that only hit power and how anet seems to think its ok to only go after one dmg type at a time with out massively sifting the meta to the other exstream. Your core gurds are not there for support or even power dmg there are now there for burst condi dmg.

 

Power dmg vs condi dmg cant be balanced but your fooling your self if you think power stand any chase for filling rolls that condi dmg skills do now in the current meta and balance patch.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> Alright, I see a lot of people saying "condi needs survivability because its damage isnt bursty", and thats just weird to me. Because A, not all power builds are burst builds. Many are in fact focused on sustained DPS. And B, most condi builds being played right now in fact *are* bursty as hell. Condi doesnt need the defensive tools. They just push it even further ahead. Hell take Condi Rev in WvW, theyre running Grieving because they can actually use the power damage as well, and dont need the defensive tools at all.

Complains about trailblazers/dire - then say one of the most OP condi burst classes dont use that anyway.

 

Hm.

 

Whats next, even glass condi isnt allowed to compete with power so people should be forced to use power based weapons? Cant use condi based trait? Maybe we just need to delete entire classes keep the power hegemony safe.

[God.2708]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"God.2708" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"God.2708" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"God.2708" said:

> > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > > > > What it comes down to is that power dmg needs 3 effect to be viable and there are many counter effects out side of classes such as dmg -% food and protection boon as well as aura and even rune set that give -% dmg. Condi only needs 1 effect and there are far less dmg -% for condi in the game at all levels.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Its always going to be out of balance.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This comes up all the time and it's factually untrue.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Warrior with Sword in full Dire](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAwA-zxIY8ogHA-e)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Warrior with Axe in full Soldier](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAcA-zRIYSUwDA-e)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Damage levels are very comparable, especially when you consider that many of the condis won't get their full duration due to cleansing.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thats not a good example given that Warrior is not a good (or even viable) condi class, while a pretty powerful power class. Of course Dire will do as little damage as Soldier. The difference is Dire is a *very* viable statset, and Soldier is not. Realistically, a good condi build like Condi Rev in Dire will hit easily 3 times harder than a Warrior in Soldier gear.

> > > >

> > > > Pick a class then. Any class. I just did warrior because sword and axe are pretty standard thematic condi/power weapons

> > >

> > > I mean, I already gave an example, Revenant. Soldier Revenant will do a *fraction* of the damage a Dire revenant will. But really, take any class with powerful condi builds right now. Weaver, Guardian, Necro, hell even Thief.

> >

> > [soldiers Rev with sword](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmQAwlQMEyjQdEijQkEiAA-zRIYSUwDA-e)

> >

> > [Dire Rev with Mace](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmQAklQIEKiQSECiQgESAA-zxIY8ogHA-e)

> >

> > Looks pretty much the same to me. Condi has a small damage edge but again, clears would reduce their maximum expected output. This is also damage vs a 2.7k armor target, a glassier target would take way more from power (and the same from condi)

>

> Stats-wise yeah, their survivability is the same. No duh, the only difference is power vs condi. Damage-wise? Its not a "slight edge", its such a massive gap you could run a river through it. Of course, you cant try it out in sPvP because you dont have either stat sets available. But we can approximate it. First, Power Rev using Sage's Amulet. It gives condi damage, but Power Rev doesnt apply condis much. Now, for a test. On the heavy target golem, using Sages, it took me 15 seconds to kill it, using everything at my disposal. Now with condi, sadly there wasnt a good stat combination to use there. I settled with Rabid, but damage is slightly inflated, keep that in mind. With that, I killed the same target in 5 seconds. Even with the slight damage up, thats a massive difference. Despite the fact that much of condi revs power is in its condi-sharing.

 

So. Hitting a heavy golem that can't cleanse conditions but does have increased armor to reduce power damages effectiveness. Resulted in condition damage killing it faster? I just jumped into PvP slapped a Sages amulet onto my rev and dropped the light armor golem in 4s. Methinks this is a PEBKAC problem.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"God.2708" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"God.2708" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"God.2708" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > @"God.2708" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > > > > > What it comes down to is that power dmg needs 3 effect to be viable and there are many counter effects out side of classes such as dmg -% food and protection boon as well as aura and even rune set that give -% dmg. Condi only needs 1 effect and there are far less dmg -% for condi in the game at all levels.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Its always going to be out of balance.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This comes up all the time and it's factually untrue.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [Warrior with Sword in full Dire](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAwA-zxIY8ogHA-e)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > [Warrior with Axe in full Soldier](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAcA-zRIYSUwDA-e)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Damage levels are very comparable, especially when you consider that many of the condis won't get their full duration due to cleansing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thats not a good example given that Warrior is not a good (or even viable) condi class, while a pretty powerful power class. Of course Dire will do as little damage as Soldier. The difference is Dire is a *very* viable statset, and Soldier is not. Realistically, a good condi build like Condi Rev in Dire will hit easily 3 times harder than a Warrior in Soldier gear.

> > > > >

> > > > > Pick a class then. Any class. I just did warrior because sword and axe are pretty standard thematic condi/power weapons

> > > >

> > > > I mean, I already gave an example, Revenant. Soldier Revenant will do a *fraction* of the damage a Dire revenant will. But really, take any class with powerful condi builds right now. Weaver, Guardian, Necro, hell even Thief.

> > >

> > > [soldiers Rev with sword](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmQAwlQMEyjQdEijQkEiAA-zRIYSUwDA-e)

> > >

> > > [Dire Rev with Mace](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmQAklQIEKiQSECiQgESAA-zxIY8ogHA-e)

> > >

> > > Looks pretty much the same to me. Condi has a small damage edge but again, clears would reduce their maximum expected output. This is also damage vs a 2.7k armor target, a glassier target would take way more from power (and the same from condi)

> >

> > Stats-wise yeah, their survivability is the same. No duh, the only difference is power vs condi. Damage-wise? Its not a "slight edge", its such a massive gap you could run a river through it. Of course, you cant try it out in sPvP because you dont have either stat sets available. But we can approximate it. First, Power Rev using Sage's Amulet. It gives condi damage, but Power Rev doesnt apply condis much. Now, for a test. On the heavy target golem, using Sages, it took me 15 seconds to kill it, using everything at my disposal. Now with condi, sadly there wasnt a good stat combination to use there. I settled with Rabid, but damage is slightly inflated, keep that in mind. With that, I killed the same target in 5 seconds. Even with the slight damage up, thats a massive difference. Despite the fact that much of condi revs power is in its condi-sharing.

>

> So. Hitting a heavy golem that can't cleanse conditions but does have increased armor to reduce power damages effectiveness. Resulted in condition damage killing it faster? I just jumped into PvP slapped a Sages amulet onto my rev and dropped the light armor golem in 4s. Methinks this is a PEBKAC problem.

 

Light golems also have less health. I imagine condi Rev can kill it even faster. Besides, the point is that, even with cleanses around, Condition builds using just one condition stat do *way* more damage than power builds using just one power stat. Thats why the former are viable, and the latter arent.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > Alright, I see a lot of people saying "condi needs survivability because its damage isnt bursty", and thats just weird to me. Because A, not all power builds are burst builds. Many are in fact focused on sustained DPS. And B, most condi builds being played right now in fact *are* bursty as hell. Condi doesnt need the defensive tools. They just push it even further ahead. Hell take Condi Rev in WvW, theyre running Grieving because they can actually use the power damage as well, and dont need the defensive tools at all.

> Complains about trailblazers/dire - then say one of the most OP condi burst classes dont use that anyway.

>

> Hm.

>

> Whats next, even glass condi isnt allowed to compete with power so people should be forced to use power based weapons? Cant use condi based trait? Maybe we just need to delete entire classes keep the power hegemony safe.

 

The point is that condition *doesnt need the tanky stats*, the fact that they can get them for free breaks them. Condi Rev doesnt because they just want to do *even more damage*, and their survivability is fine even without defensive stats. Mind you, even if it went dire, it would still outdamage all other small-scale roamers. Just by less absurd of a margin.

 

Though I wouldnt just nerf condi, it needs a rework from the ground up. In particular regarding cleanses, those make the stat too binary. You have enough cleanses, you win, you dont, you lose.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> Condi Rev doesnt because they just want to do *even more damage*, and their survivability is fine even without defensive stats.

And other classes? You know the classes that have long since realized they need the sustain to be viable fighting power builds?

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Julius Seizure.4985" said:

> Power uses 3 stats for maximum potential, and condition damage uses 2 stats for maximum potential. This is the root of the problem.

>

> Make it so condition damage is reduced by something (toughness, vitality, etc) and then have Precision add the current “ignores armor” reduction effect.

>

> Boom. All of a sudden you need Power/Precision/Ferocity or Condition/Precision/Expertise for maximum damage of each respective type. The bloat for condition damage come entirely from its ability to maximize at 2 stats, and often do insane damage with just 1 stats (Condition damage).

 

Most classes demand precision even on condition builds to truly get the most of their damage due to trait interactions.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > Condi Rev doesnt because they just want to do *even more damage*, and their survivability is fine even without defensive stats.

> And other classes? You know the classes that have long since realized they need the sustain to be viable fighting power builds?

 

The problem is, you know who else realised that? *Power builds*. Difference is, they cant go full damage while going full defense at the same time. And, well, their survivability is fine. Take condi thief, or even Condi Mirage. Their survivability would be the *exact same* as the equivalent power build, if they had the same defensive stats. They just get to take a bunch of free tankiness ontop of that.