Tyson.5160

With the most recent patch, Kralkatorrik has been identified as having a hive mind, which was supposedly gained from Mordremoth. So far we haven’t seen Kralkatorrik use any plant like minions, however has adapted the use of death magic by branding the dead. Could Kralkatorrik have mainly gained the Mind circle of magic from Mordremoth and perhaps did not gain much of the plant magic. Might be a reason we didn’t see Mordrem using Shadow magic. Was Shadow magic the reason Zhaitan learned what his minions knew or was that a property of Death magic?

Perhaps we’ll find out if we go to that location in Kourna.

Been wondering about this for a few months, but do we have any idea where Twilight Oasis takes place?

I was thinking the old renovated Sunspear Sanctuary.

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > The whole energy/souls plot is pretty closely tied to the raids doe.

> > > >

> > > > Good point actually. I'm not GW1 vet, so the whole Envoy thing isn't quite clear for me.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Envoys i believe guided the souls back in gw1. I believe like a punishment for terrible ppl.

> >

> > This Envoy armor thing kinda bugs me because it’s really has nothing to do with Envoys other then maybe the spirit vale and Gorseval collections. The armor itself doesn’t resemble the envoys either. Really the armor could have been called anything but Envoy, because it has nothing to do with shepherding the newly dead. Unless I’m not seeing a blatant connection.

> >

> > They could have called it magnetite armor or something of that nature.

> >

> > Also for Zealex benefit.

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Envoy

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Reaper

>

> To be fair, we don't know a great deal about envoys. Other than that, at least in gw1, they are spirits of previous criminals, with enormous power, guiding the other spirits, and somehow put into submission by the oracle (at least one or some of them)

>

> I still believe that the name of the armour is mostly made up by our player character as it seems to me its an experiment in making the best armor with materials from the raids.

Should of held off until Cantha to name an armour set, Envoy, but who knows.

Then keep it as it is, status quo. The issue is, that as each year goes by, gw2 becomes older and older and things like accessibility becomes larger and larger. In terms of the game life, this probably the longest game that Anet has supported, so we are probably diving into some uncharted territory for gw2. So whatever they have to do to bring people in.

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > The whole energy/souls plot is pretty closely tied to the raids doe.

> >

> > Good point actually. I'm not GW1 vet, so the whole Envoy thing isn't quite clear for me.

> >

> >

>

> Envoys i believe guided the souls back in gw1. I believe like a punishment for terrible ppl.

This Envoy armor thing kinda bugs me because it’s really has nothing to do with Envoys other then maybe the spirit vale and Gorseval collections. The armor itself doesn’t resemble the envoys either. Really the armor could have been called anything but Envoy, because it has nothing to do with shepherding the newly dead. Unless I’m not seeing a blatant connection.

They could have called it magnetite armor or something of that nature.

Also for Zealex benefit.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Envoy

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Reaper

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> It's pointless.

>

> Trying to make PvE competitive is literally the last thing any company wants to do, nor does it stoke any PvE fire. It's a feature wasted on people who don't actually know what they want.

>

> You know what does stoke PvE fires, content. Something we havent had in 3 months.

It’s the regular cadence of Living World. I enjoy the regular breaks better then the fast pace of Season 1. Mind you this cadence has been around summer 2016, so this clearly the way that the pve content will be delivered.

Perhaps if these leaderboards provided additional rewards for ranking.

Honestly, spvp should have a unique legendary skin that is different from the Envoy set. Same as WvW, I can’t stand the envoy set, however if wvw and spvp gave a legendary armour set as well, which is on par as the transforming envoy set, then there may be few complaints.

> @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> > > Just remember folks... “It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.” - Mike O’Brien

>

> Raids is the future fun reward for PvE. This dude didn't understand Mike's statement at all. Also this statement was made years ago.

>

> Only a person that clearly is out of touch with the game would think their philosophy on everything is EXACTLY the same as when Mike was game director. This statement is almost in applicable now.

Didn’t Mike just step down as game director, also by this statement does it mean that you want to wait to have fun and love mindless grind fest?

Did you try posting in the LFG?

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No, I’m just saying that pvp and wvw should have unique transforming Armor one for pvp and a different one for wvw. So competing in wvw and ranked pvp is no effort?

> > > > >

> > > > > What?! No, I'm simply saying "if you don't want to raid, you don't get Envoy armor". Just like if you don't want to WvW you don't get Sublime Mistforged. It's called freedom of choice.

> > > > Sublime Mistforged is not a unique transforming armor skin. It's also definitely not on the level of envoy armor. There's no equality here.

> > > > Also, what about the SPvP set?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > That's up to the pvp people to ask. As for the rest - Sunblime Mistforged is most definitely an unique set, with unique visuals. I'm not quite clear on what you mean by "transforming" as technically each and every armor skin can be transmuted into another, provided that another is unlocked on your account and of the same weight. So I'm going to assume you're talking about "stat-selectable". In which case - WvW has a road to its own legendary armor. Unlock Sublime, craft legendary, transmog the legendary to Sublime. There you go. Takes effort, all in WvW. Just like Envoy takes effort, all in raids.

> >

> > So the transforming Armor he is referring to is how the envoy has a normal state and a combat state, also the Armor has a draw effect. Frankly I don’t want the pvp and wvw Armor to be the Envoy Armor ( as I think it’s ugly as all hell) and I think that it deserves its own different sets of transforming Armor.

>

> Ah, the combat mode... Totally forgot that. Nah, I don't think they'll be doing that mistake again.

Probably not, but adding a draw effect and possibly some other effects would be nice. The devs also advised that they will be using that transforming tech like Shining Blade more. I imagine if pvp and wvw were given more of this treatment there wouldn’t be as much complaining as there would be a choice, much like the fractal, pvp and wvw legendary backpacks.

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > >

> > > > No, I’m just saying that pvp and wvw should have unique transforming Armor one for pvp and a different one for wvw. So competing in wvw and ranked pvp is no effort?

> > >

> > > What?! No, I'm simply saying "if you don't want to raid, you don't get Envoy armor". Just like if you don't want to WvW you don't get Sublime Mistforged. It's called freedom of choice.

> > Sublime Mistforged is not a unique transforming armor skin. It's also definitely not on the level of envoy armor. There's no equality here.

> > Also, what about the SPvP set?

> >

> >

>

> That's up to the pvp people to ask. As for the rest - Sunblime Mistforged is most definitely an unique set, with unique visuals. I'm not quite clear on what you mean by "transforming" as technically each and every armor skin can be transmuted into another, provided that another is unlocked on your account and of the same weight. So I'm going to assume you're talking about "stat-selectable". In which case - WvW has a road to its own legendary armor. Unlock Sublime, craft legendary, transmog the legendary to Sublime. There you go. Takes effort, all in WvW. Just like Envoy takes effort, all in raids.

So the transforming Armor he is referring to is how the envoy has a normal state and a combat state, also the Armor has a draw effect. Frankly I don’t want the pvp and wvw Armor to be the Envoy Armor ( as I think it’s ugly as all hell) and I think that it deserves its own different sets of transforming Armor.

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > 1. Wrong conclusions. There is nothing supporting the claim that hypothetical raid tiers will create any influx of players, let alone a "massive" one. Actually, there's hard evidence that it won't - Fractals of the Mists. According to gw2efficiency, 2.7% of the players have unlocked "Leaves No Hero Behind" title, which is only slightly above the number of players having "Demon's Demise" one (2.3%). Meaning that the number of people raiding is about the same as the number or people playing top-tier fractals (which it t4 cm by the way, not t4 itself). So how come? There are difficulty tiers in fractals all right, 5 of them. How come the 54% of the population who have the "Professor" title don't play t4 cms?

> > If there was only the CM tier, and lower tiers did not exist, you'd have that 2.7% players playing fractals. Actually, you'd have less, because some of that 2.7% _did_ come there only because they started at lower tiers, and would never end up in CM if they had to do it directly.

>

> Missing the point. Fractals tiers ARE difficulty tiers in instanced content. Adding difficulty tiers to raids doesn't do anything - these exact same easier tiers already exist in FotM. The legendary influx of new players won't happen. The majority of players aren't comfortable playing difficult content, fractal CMs prove that beyond any doubt. And the small numbers that are, they already make the transition and start playing both the CMs and raids. There's no real difference between the two, aside from the party size and it doesn't affect the skill requirements at all.

>

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > That doesn't mean that it *needed* to be included. The game also doesn't have open world PvP, fully customizable player housing, the ability to swap classes, fishing, etc. The game was in many ways better off without raiding, but now it has it, and we have to figure out how best to make that work within the game that existed before them.

> > >

> > > Once again, it's not the same. Open world PvP affects everyone in the open world. Raids affect only those who choose to raid. Their addition is strictly beneficial, there are NO downsides.

> > >

> > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:> I keep asking, but so far nobody's answered, where *is* this niche people keep talking about that allows you to earn Envoy armor and experience the story content of the raid modes without participating in the current difficulty version of raiding?

> > > >

> > > > And I already addressed why the cost/benefit of the time it would take to produce would likely balance out.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Ah, so the shinies argument again. Where's my niche to get The Ascension from the open world? Why do you think everything should be obtainable through the means **you** personally like?

> > >

> > > And you didn't address anything. Nonzero effort producing zero effect is a waste. It would never balance out, it will always remain a waste.

> >

> > This is correct for the Ascension,however, you have equally impressive Ad Infinitium and War bringer, giving the player a choice on which backpack to go for. This can’t be said for the PvP and WvW Legendary Armor as the skins are reused from ascended pieces. Perhaps if the Pvp and Wvw Armor we’re transforming Armor like the pve but had different skins, there may be less of a bicker fest.

>

> So what? The "ez mode raid" crowd used to use "functionality" as their argument. Turns out they just want the reward without the effort. What about Mistforged Triumphant? There's your unique skin. Far, *FAR* more inaccessible than Envoy armor. Where's the kitten about that one?

No, I’m just saying that pvp and wvw should have unique transforming Armor one for pvp and a different one for wvw. So competing in wvw and ranked pvp is no effort?

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > Thousands of man-hours gone into creating new balance levels, which achieves nothing. That's pretty much my definition of "wasting development time". And no, it won't affect the accessibility a tiny bit. **You already have the lower tiers of instanced content which you can use to get yourself ready for raiding.** The reason why fewer people play raids? Same as why fewer people play fractal CMs - because the content is challenging and no number of lower tiers can prepare you for it. Only by playing, failing and playing again can you master it. This is what *the players it is meant for* find interesting and fun. And this is the barrier of entry the rest of the players don't want to cross.

> > > >

> > > > I've never seen an LFG in the raid section that asks for a Fractal Savant title, a 99cm/100cm kill proof or Ad Infinitum to join the group. So while I agree that fractals prepare you skill-wise for raids, they are not an entry-requirement for raids at all, nor do they make it easier to actually get into raid groups. The fractal tiers work great...for fractals. They are not in place for raids. Raid tiers would make raids more accessible, because "instanced content" is not all the same. A group that wants to do 99cm/100cm doesn't care if you have 100LI or some raid title, and a raid group doesn't care if you are a Fractal Savant.

> > > >

> > > > You say no lower tier raids can prepare you for raids, but on the other hand, you agree that it works well for fractals. Why do you make that distinction?

> > >

> > > You won't see any. The explanation is a bit further in the text you quoted, but for your convenience I'll write it again:

> > >

> > > "Only by playing, failing and playing again can you master it."

> > >

> > > Of course raid LFGs will look for raid-specific experience. You won't see fractal CM party asking for Demon's Demise either, for the same reason - the experience doesn't translate directly. That's the point. Experience not translating directly is what makes new challenging content fun. Because it means you get to figure it out on your own, make the transition from "omg, what just happened" through "ah, I get it", further down the "oh not this again" and finally to "yay for us, team". And that same feature means you **can't** get ready for that content on lower levels. A lower level can teach you some basics, that's true. But these basics you can already learn in fractals. Apologies if I didn't make it clear enough.

> > >

> > > TL;DR:

> > > Lower tiers don't make you ready, it only teaches basics.

> >

> > You write as if I was the one incapable of reading. But you first wrote "You already have the lower tiers of instanced content which you can use to get yourself ready for raiding." and now you are saying "Lower tiers don't make you ready, it only teaches basics."

> >

> > Sorry, it's not me who is unclear here. If you changed your mind, that's fine, but please don't act like this is what you said all the time and that I didn't pay attention.

>

> Apologies, it seems like I didn't make my point clear enough.

>

> Here's the deal: lower difficulty tiers only get you so far. Being good at T4 fractals doesn't make you automatically good in fractal CMs, that why CM groups ask for CM killproof. The way to become good in CMs is to play them, fail, and play them more. The same holds true for raiding. You can't be prepared for raiding without having raided.

>

> Now, obviously having experience in the lower tier translates into something. Like, you know your role in the group and how to perform it under pressure. **However, a lower tier raid won't teach you anything more than the already existing fractals in this respect.** It won't teach you the mechanics either, as they will need to be relaxed out of necessity. See for instance normal mode vs CM Arkk. In normal mode, failing the pillars mechanic isn't a big deal - you take some damage, shrug it off and continue. In CM it simply wipes you and that makes a BIG difference. Relaxed mechanics teach bad habits, which translate directly into poor performance on the higher tier. Any potential advantage from knowing the mechanics is completely lost because you will first need to unlearn all the bad habits picked up.

>

> Hope I made that clear.

>

> > @"Adenin.5973" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > Thousands of man-hours gone into creating new balance levels, which achieves nothing. That's pretty much my definition of "wasting development time". And no, it won't affect the accessibility a tiny bit. **You already have the lower tiers of instanced content which you can use to get yourself ready for raiding.** The reason why fewer people play raids? Same as why fewer people play fractal CMs - because the content is challenging and no number of lower tiers can prepare you for it. Only by playing, failing and playing again can you master it. This is what *the players it is meant for* find interesting and fun. And this is the barrier of entry the rest of the players don't want to cross.

> >

> >

> > - "Thousands of man-hours gone into creating new balance levels, which achieves nothing." - You don't know that it would take that long

> > - And no, it won't affect the accessibility a tiny bit. **You already have the lower tiers of instanced content which you can use to get yourself ready for raiding.** - Wow that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Fractals do not get you ready for raiding, they don't explain you the mechanics, they don't require a meta composition (yes, you can do it with 4 MM necros and a longbow ranger), they don't give you killproof so ppl take you with them in raids. What do they prepare you for? Maybe you learn your class a bit better, maybe you learn to evade better. These things could be learned elsewhere. It's like saying high rank PvP prepares you for raiding.

> > - The reason why fewer people play raids? Same as why fewer people play fractal CMs - because the content is challenging and no number of lower tiers can prepare you for it. - So you just said literally that the "lower tiers of content can you get ready for raiding" and now you say the complete opposite of it in the next sentence. Also this is again completely baseless speculation from you that has no example in the game. If you would ask right now any person that plays 99/100cm, if the 99/100cm mode was the only and very first fractal they've played, what would be the answer? Exactly, everyone started at the bottom and climbed their ladder, failing already at t1 fractrals and t2 and 3 and t4. And now that they're doing 99/100cms the lower tiers are super easy for them but they were a challenge when they went in the low tiers for the first time. Ask them if a complete newb that never played the fractal should immediately start at 99/100cm or if it would be a good idea to start with t1. We all know the answer.

> > And yes, of course super challenging content will always be a bit of a niche content, but this is not about making the current raid difficulty level the most played content in the game, it's about making raids in general as content be played by far more people, this includes ppl playing raids at t1-t4. It's about how much hours of content per player gets anet from developing a raid. Currently that number must be unbelievably small, therefore it's a waste of their time but by making raids as a whole be played by more players, this number will drastically increase to a point where new raids are worth their effort and then they might even get more raids out than before, with more lore and rewards tied to them

> > - Only by playing, failing and playing again can you master it. - Exactly, achieved by raid tiers, where the lowest tier doesnt search for any killproof, where newbs can just join and try the raid, without getting together with the uber elitists that kick them instantly or where the entire group wipes immediately because someone made a mistake.

> > - And this is the barrier of entry the rest of the players don't want to cross. - Again not true, there are tons of players that failed at fractals but they find either a tier that suits them or they can go down a tier train a bit and eventually they get to the next tier. Fractals are still popular, they wouldn't if the only tier would be t4 or only the cms.

> >

> > You don't have to and you shouldn't lower the ceiling but you should, as already explained, lower the entry barrier. There's nothing that changes for the people that like the challenge but a massive part of the playerbase get's a massive amount of content that suddenly is within they reach and ability to play, with long term goals in improving their gameplay, their equipment and even those that want to do only raids for the story have now a low tier entry raid where they can experience that.

> >

> > That's the exact opposite of wasting development time.

>

> I have a pretty good idea how long would it take. I've been a game developer for the last 14 years and I've developed a feel how long it takes to get various things done. Obviously, since I don't work for ANet my estimate can be way off. But not orders of magnitude off. And it would take that much for the changes you think to be actually considered fast and easy.

>

> For the rest, see my explanation in reply to Faaris above. In short, you won't get any more prepared by playing a hypothetical "easy mode raid" than you would from playing T4 FotM. Both won't make you ready. Only playing actual raids will.

This is true... I too learned to play golf by competing in the PGA.

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > That doesn't mean that it *needed* to be included. The game also doesn't have open world PvP, fully customizable player housing, the ability to swap classes, fishing, etc. The game was in many ways better off without raiding, but now it has it, and we have to figure out how best to make that work within the game that existed before them.

>

> Once again, it's not the same. Open world PvP affects everyone in the open world. Raids affect only those who choose to raid. Their addition is strictly beneficial, there are NO downsides.

>

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:> I keep asking, but so far nobody's answered, where *is* this niche people keep talking about that allows you to earn Envoy armor and experience the story content of the raid modes without participating in the current difficulty version of raiding?

> >

> > And I already addressed why the cost/benefit of the time it would take to produce would likely balance out.

> >

>

> Ah, so the shinies argument again. Where's my niche to get The Ascension from the open world? Why do you think everything should be obtainable through the means **you** personally like?

>

> And you didn't address anything. Nonzero effort producing zero effect is a waste. It would never balance out, it will always remain a waste.

This is correct for the Ascension,however, you have equally impressive Ad Infinitium and War bringer, giving the player a choice on which backpack to go for. This can’t be said for the PvP and WvW Legendary Armor as the skins are reused from ascended pieces. Perhaps if the Pvp and Wvw Armor we’re transforming Armor like the pve but had different skins, there may be less of a bicker fest.

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> > Players in Gw2 can be polite, kind and helpful, but I can't help to notice there's lack of content in game that can create interactions or teamwork to bond the players.

> While raids can create that interactions, they are even better at creating _opposite_ results. They can really strain relationships if they're treated too seriously. And treating them too seriously is a norm in a raider community.

>

>

Yes it seems more on the negative then positive. Don’t get me wrong, I have had those super powerful positive raid fights, that are like cloud 9.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> I'd say use exact same mechanics, just less damage and less rewards. I'd almost called it: "Training Mode and Normal Mode" rather than easy and hard mode.

>

> **Or, let's take a completely different approach to this. Say there was a portal in the golem training room that teleports your team to whatever raid boss they want to practice on. The mode functions exactly as the actual raid boss but there is a control panel option for the commander to be able to turn the damage up or down on the raid boss. Maybe could be some other options to tinker with the battle as well, similar to golem settings. = Training Mode.**

>

> Either way, easy or hard mode at actual boss with less rewards or build a straight up training hologram room in Aerodrome. New players need a place to learn mechanics where it is more widely accepted that new players can go in there to learn mechanics without feeling the social stigma of being a new player.

Yeah it would be nice if a player wanted to do some practicing of the mechanics for example Sloth knock down attack, so you could practice the timing etc. Maybe they could keep this function away from the current raid for the first progression week and add it later.

> @"Orangensaft.7139" said:

> normal raids are already easy enough i think

> We have CMs for more difficult challenges (even though some CMs barely make the fight harder like at Cairn - that was a bit lazy one i guess)

> Raids should not get an easy mode since it just wouldnt be Raid anymore - They are difficult and thats what defines them

>

> But what i can see is a **Training Mode** - with no rewards - just for training:

> The only change should be that the damage of enemies and area effects is scaled down

> but NOT enemy life and much more important NO changes on any Timers or the speed of Boss actions / how much time players have to evade etc - or those new players would learn it wrong!

>

> That Training Mode would open up perfect possiblity for anyone to get into raids and be able to train without already needing to know boss perfectly - and it will be a less demoralizing learning process where you can feel how you make progress but it wont devalue any existing raid rewards or raid prestige in general

> Maybe there could be a liiittle bit of Magnetite Shards only rewards - but killing the training bosses should definitly not unlock the merchant tabs for a Boss -

> only killing the actual Boss

>

> Training Mode like i am imagining it wouldnt require too much effort from Arenanet i think since they wouldnt have to change anything on the mechanics - just turn down difficulty by reducing damage like i wrote before ... just change the numbers and thats it^^

>

I do like this idea, because it gives the same function as tier 1 and 2 fractals, which are very popular. It allows the player to gain confidence during the encounter, perhaps the training mode would have some of the mechanics more separate so people can learn the encounter with a bit more ease.

> @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> I do like the idea. But I don't think it wil be a thing. Aside from what Miellyn.6847 said, rarely or hardly any players will participate and experienced players willing to help since there's little to gain. Over time, it will quickly become a dead mode due to lack of participant. Currently, there are training communities, where players do get kills and shards for trying.

People said the same thing with story mode dungeons and yet people still run those as well. Same with their 1 fractals.

If the training mode gave a single legendary insight for a full wing clear, people could still progress, it would take them 7.5 months but it could happen.

> @"Orangensaft.7139" said:

> normal raids are already easy enough i think

> We have CMs for more difficult challenges (even though some CMs barely make the fight harder like at Cairn - that was a bit lazy one i guess)

> Raids should not get an easy mode since it just wouldnt be Raid anymore - They are difficult and thats what defines them

>

> But what i can see is a **Training Mode** - with no rewards - just for training:

> The only change should be that the damage of enemies and area effects is scaled down

> but NOT enemy life and much more important NO changes on any Timers or the speed of Boss actions / how much time players have to evade etc - or those new players would learn it wrong!

>

> That Training Mode would open up perfect possiblity for anyone to get into raids and be able to train without already needing to know boss perfectly - and it will be a less demoralizing learning process where you can feel how you make progress but it wont devalue any existing raid rewards or raid prestige in general

> Maybe there could be a liiittle bit of Magnetite Shards only rewards - but killing the training bosses should definitly not unlock the merchant tabs for a Boss -

> only killing the actual Boss

>

> Training Mode like i am imagining it wouldnt require too much effort from Arenanet i think since they wouldnt have to change anything on the mechanics - just turn down difficulty by reducing damage like i wrote before ... just change the numbers and thats it^^

>

This just sounds like an easy mode however named training mode. I do agree with your suggestion though.

As much as they say that easy mode, won’t happen, it’s inevitable, might not be tomorrow, next week or even next year, but it will happen.

As someone had previously stated it’s not server wars, but Guild Wars. I think this is definitely a step in the right direction.

I like this idea. I also think a fractal with the players being Risen and being directed by Zhaitan would be cool too.

It would be the same as having just T4 Fractals and no tiers under it. The lower tiers teach the encounter and slowly improve difficulty adding new mechanics etc.

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > > Dude... Seriously?

> > > > > If the fact that you already have a easy mode for Fractals doesn't stop people from complaining about fractals difficulty/elitism, then a easy mode for dungeons surely won't stop people from complaining about the same things for dungeons....

> > > > 1. it would stop _some_ of them.

> > > > 2. it might bring more people to the mode

> > > > (also, you meand raids instead of dungeons, right?)

> > > >

> > > > Also, notice, that complains about elitism in fractals are a relatively new thing (at least to the degree we're seeing now). They are a result of the game _changing_. Before that, almost all the complains about difficulty of high-tier fractals were targetting very specific mechanics (like, for example, the clown car dredge fight), and not in general (like being too difficult), but for more specific reasons (in te clow car case because it was too long and too boring).

> > > >

> > > > Basically, the complains now are not affected by existence of lower tiers, because they are not exactly complains about t4 difficulty. They are complains about _increase_ of t4 difficulty. They are not about existence of elitism in high tier fractals. They are about _increase_ of elitism and toxicity in high-tier fractals.

> > > >

> > > > So, apples and oranges.

> > >

> > > 1. I doubt it. Seriously, anyone that's serious enough about raids will, sooner or later, be doing raids with or without the higher difficulty, especially since some of them are quite easy already. Escort, for example, is easier than any T4 fractal, and is a good way to introduce people to raids, get the masteries, and some of the rewards.

> > > 2. See above.

> > > 3. Yes, that was a brain fart, i meant raids.

> > >

> > > Not really, there's always been complains. The thing is, people decided to hate on raids, and since that's a dead horse if there is one, the same forum warriros started veering towards fractals. The heart of those complaints is always the same. People want to take their open world barely effective builds (seriously you can always spot the guys with fractal/raid gear in World bosses/encounters, because they have 50% of the DPS) to what's supposed to be hard content. And when they fail, or people get tired of carrying those people and kick them, they complain.

> > >

> > > Raids is the same thing, and again, while it would be nice to have a "Raids Light", kind of like Dungeon Story Modes, i seriously doubt it would make a dent on people complaining and whatnot, because the true rewards would always be behind the content they can't complete because they can't bring themselves to try and improve their game.

> > >

> > > Also i'd argue that the _increase_ in toxicity and elitism in fractals, is actually not a thing? If anything atm fractals are way more chill than they were at various periods in the game.

> >

> > Having the easier mode may help them improve their game though, by introducing them to the mechanics.

>

> I'm not contesting that, or am i opposed to a easy mode, in fact i'm in favour. My only point is that, unlike people have offered, it won't stop people from complaining, just like T1 Fractals don't do the same for Fractals.

Nothing will stop people from complaining because human beings are never satisfied.