Konig Des Todes.2086

> @"PseudoNewb.5468" said: > Can the Son's of Svanir summon a cold blast that completely freezes the area and create free standing ice structures. All without at least the blessing of Jormag? The trailer shows Mantle's Breach and large parts of Lake Doric completely frozen over. Also Divinity's Reach defenses are active in the map too. Jormag seems to have begun assaulting the rest of Tyria bringing worse than Shiverpeaks weather down the mountains and across the region. Freezing Divinity's Reach is hostile regardless of how much Jormag says it wants to be nice. Sons of Svanir are well established as being capable of spreading Jormag's corruption without being corrupted themselves, and Jormag is well established as not caring who or what gets corrupted, even in IBS. For example, we see Sons of Svanir summon flash blizzards that freeze over individuals in Dredgehaunt Cliffs events. And it isn't like Jormag is the sole source of powerful ice magic, either, and such sources would interest the Sons of Svanir if for no other reason than to feed to Jormag. In addition, we have [one historical elementalist](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Teinai) capable of flash freezing a lake in the past, so it isn't unprecedented - this is the ice elementalist equivalent of [a mesmer summoning an army of illusions](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kitah) or [an illusion as large as a massive tower](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Koro_Sagewind). Combine the fact Sons of Svanir can channel Jormag's magic without being corrupted (yet), with a powerful uncorrupted elementalist capable of flash freezing, and flash freezing a lake with Jormag's magic isn't out of the possibility. > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said: > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > The commander didn't smash Ryland to pieces as soon as possible. > > > To me, that's far more than enough of an indicator that the commander is buying into Jormag's story. > > Not being a psychopath who just kills everything on sight doesn't mean your buying into anything. > He's a non-Aurene Dragon Champion, thus a big danger to Tyria. > Despite what Jormag says, it does not care for Tyria's safety. > There is literally no benefit in allowing Ryland to continue existing, but too many possible detriments. > The commander ought to know that. > > That is, Arenanet pulls something that unrealistically and unreasonably makes Jormag a good dragon, which would shatter the last remnants of cohesive story-telling. And in doing so, Arenanet would make a literal joke of the entire story. Ryland is an individual _of free will_ with an unclear position. The Commander was getting a feel for Ryland, to see if he still had free will. This was unrelated to Jormag, and the fact Ryland has free will means he can be convinced to the proper side or isn't strictly an outright threat whereas an enslaved icebrood is just as Jormag is. The Commander isn't buying into Jormag's claims, but they're also not treating them as an imminent danger because as firmly established throughout Season 3 to Season 4, the world needs 4+ Elder Dragons to survive, and we don't have another replacement. The whole race has been to prevent Jormag's awakening, but now that it's happened we can't just go and _bash the dragon_ and be done with it. Jormag wasn't antagonized _yet_ and the Commander and friends were taking advantage of this to pull resources and information. Killing Ryland (especially without knowing how strong he's gotten - last two times the Commander did that, they died the first time, and got stuck in a spell the second time) would antagonize Jormag.

Unlike Trahearne and especially Vlast, the Commander's body was still intact. In addition, they were resurrected a short time after death through a very special circumstance. Could they have been resurrected? *maybe* in Trahearne's cast, no in Vlast's, due to the body's condition. Can they now, years later? No. Should they? No. Let's not make death be even less of a hurdle. Maybe they can return as ghosts for cameos.

> @"Svennis.3852" said: > An accelerated story is to be expected, but I did not anticipate Jormag becoming hostile toward us this soon. I figured the ruse of a 'truce' would be drawn out till chapter 3 or 4, but I suppose we don't have that kind of time. I'm not sure this is Jormag. The leader seems to be a non-corrupted Son of Svanir, so he's acting independently. The icebrood norn are established as pretty much mindless, so it following another of power makes sense. Jormag is largely in the "does not care" / apathetic area when it comes to killing individuals and cares more about preserving the world itself, so it probably doesn't care how the free willed followers do things so long as the end goal is met. > @"Svennis.3852" said: > Do Svanir sometimes cover themselves in ice, or is that only for those corrupted into Icebrood? I thought for a moment perhaps these are a rogue faction of Svanir going against our truce, but that seems unlikely. I could see them being upset about Jormag selecting a charr champion instead of someone from the Sons of Svanir, but I don't think corrupted Icebrood would be able to go against Jormag's wishes. Only the corrupted become Icebrood. A short reference would be: * "Son of Svanir" = not corrupted * "Svanir" = corrupted

> @"Musha.4025" said: > So why aren't Jormag and Primordus and water dragon all going insane like Kralk did? Who said they aren't? As mentioned, the torment is _eons_ old, having happened several dozen millennia ago. We've yet to see a personality out of Zhaitan or Primordus, and both act little different from Kralkatorrik (especially Primordus) as Kralk was very animalistic and without personality until Kralk's final moments when we went straight to his mind/heart. And we've not had such for Jormag, so there's no reason to outright state Jormag isn't afflicted by Torment. Even the reason for this split personality inside Kralkatorrik is unclear but given Edge of Destiny novel, it doesn't seem it was always there - Snaff goes deep into Kralkatorrik's mind, and there is no hint of anything other than what turned out to be the Torment's personality. One theory is that the split personality was caused by the Forgotten ritual being performed on Kralkatorrik, as mentioned by Sadizi in Path of Fire. And because Mordremoth (all five other Elder Dragons in fact) weren't put under such a ritual would mean that if the ritual is the cause, that's why we don't see split personalities in any of the rest of them when diving into their minds (though we've only done such for Mordremoth atm). In other words, we simply do not know that the other Elder Dragons aren't going insane like Kralkatorrik did. After all, they're all malevolent, greedy, and evil bastards like Kralkatorrik's Torment (and Kralk himself). For the record, Tom Abernathy did imply the other Elder Dragons were afflicted by Torment, and even suggests that Aurene is not _immune_, merely _resistant._ One theory which I adhere to is that her resistance comes from her bond with the Commander and Caithe (as suggested by Glint AI's words in the trial chambers during All or Nothing), and Jormag is emulating this by bonding with Ryland, Bangar, and the Frost Legion rather than outright corrupting them (the difference between the two, besides free will being stripped away, is that bonding means _sharing_ magic, while corrupting means _taking/hoarding_ magic). > Also, why do we no longer see their minions tainted by the other magics? It's not like those other magics just ceased to exist. For Jormag, it's because they're more experimental with new magic than Primordus or Kralkatorrik - the two most animalistic of the Elder Dragons - were. This was why in Season 3, there was only one such minion, and in IBS, Jormag uses Zhaitan's death magic in a new way: For Primordus, it's mentioned in the newest update (talk to Phlunt in Eye of the North), where because Primordus was put to sleep, he was able to properly assimilate the magic and thus is able to convert the foreign magic into his own (or something along those lines, similar to what Balthazar seemed to do when absorbing Jormag's and Bloodstone's magic in S3 - he never uses ice magic or bloodstone magic, just his own flavor of fire magic).

> @"Hypnowulf.7403" said: > What is the torment, then? I think it could be the manifest will of the realm of torment. With all that's happened there, I wouldn't be at all surprised if a malevolent gestalt will had arisen. And it just wants to make suffering and death happen so that it can feed on the release of energies. What could happen following the freeing of dragons from torment is the torment playing its hand. Word association is a bad choice here. Anet has a bad tendency to over-use similar words - thesauruses are just too much sometimes, I guess - like how we have Agony and Spectral Agony but the two hold zero relation. Just because both utilize the word "torment" doesn't mean there's a relation. We already know what magical torment is - it's a condition (no not [that one](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Torment)) that is caused in the _individual_ by conflicting magic creating pain to the individual. In other words, torment itself is not a sapient thing, and is most certainly not a cause, but an effect that is the result of ancient, nigh-immortal beings being afflicted with pain and suffering to the point of mindbreak. It is less that "torment is an entity in and of itself" and more that torment _warps the personality_. And indeed it isn't "corrupted magic", it's _conflicting magic._ Or rather, torment is caused by conflicting magic. In Kralkatorrik's case, this created a split personality. This isn't explicitly so for the other Elder Dragons - _if_ they're even afflicted with torment. It's entirely possible the entire split personality scenario was caused by the Forgotten, as we learned in Kesho that they performed a purifying ritual in an attempt to cleanse Kralkatorrik, but this failed because Kralkatorrik's greed was too great. But what if it didn't fail _completely_ and awoke a small part of Kralkatorrik - one which couldn't wrestle control from the tormented self. The Realm of Torment has been under Kormir's control for the past 250 years, and she cleansed it of most malevolent entities during this time. We saw what happened once her defenses weakened with the griffon quest, but we also got told that Kormir's forces regained control after the initial assaults. The Realm of Torment - in contrast to magical torment - is merely an afterlife. A _location_, and has no will of its own (by all indication thus far). And what counters your argument of "Torment comes from the Realm of Torment" is that Kralkatorrik was assaulting and consuming the Realm of Torment as well as the other afterlives. So by your argument, Torment was destroying its own realm, that it would call others to defend.

> @"Randulf.7614" said: > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > @"Randulf.7614" said: > > > Malyck was cut from the HoT story. I believe there was a dev a couple of years ago mentioning about whether they could ever fill the story in via the game or short story, but I think they left the team. > > > > Matthew Medina was part of the 2019 layoffs, but he was re-hired later on. I believe he now works on EoD though, and there wasn't any comment on this story draft for Malyck after 2018. > > Ah was it him? I had it in my head it was Peter somebody who was talking about it. > > I still don't think we will see anything unless they choose to go back to those web story formats like around the start of IBS which were decent enough Honestly, I see it more likely as a raid/strike unrelated to the main story (though they don't really seem to be doing that for IBS) or a Side Story achievement (which they seem to have given up, shame since those were great ways to do followups or foreshadowings or just unrelated stuff).

> @"Randulf.7614" said: > Malyck was cut from the HoT story. I believe there was a dev a couple of years ago mentioning about whether they could ever fill the story in via the game or short story, but I think they left the team. Matthew Medina was part of the 2019 layoffs, but he was re-hired later on. I believe he now works on EoD though, and there wasn't any comment on this story draft for Malyck after 2018.

> @"Amanda Whitemoon.6173" said: > didnt the defs say the 'mother' kralkatorik mentioned revert to Glint? aurene's mother. it was just not written properly into the dialogue No, the line referring to Glint was when Kralkatorrik was talking about regretting killing the one they loved, which refers to Glint, his daughter. Some people at release (myself included) thought it might refer to the 'mother' figure but we were wrong.

> @"Grand Marshal.4098" said: > Well the issue with all this is that DSD is a total mystery so we may not know what applies to him. Supposedly, he should be Kralkatorrik's oppossite, since Jormag has Primordus and Zhaitan had Mordremoth. But we were never led to believe that it was the case. So what if the DSD functions different than his brethren? All kinds of things could apply to him despite being an Elder Dragon. > > The possibilities are endless. The storyboard team can find any excuses to get us where they want. Which is very exciting, but we just have to hope they don't contradict already established facts. The DSD is not a _total_ mystery, and certain things are known about it - like the fact it's evil and has actively forced the krait, quaggan, and karka out of their homelands and its minions are actively fighting the largos in 1325 AE. Or that its minions are made of water and takes tentacled shapes. And there's no reason to doubt that the universal things about Elder Dragons (even Jormag and Aurene, the most radically different Elder Dragons) will be true for the DSD. While there is a lot of room for ANet to work with - we're not even firmly established that the DSD _will_ be involved. It's just highly implied (much like Zhaitan and Mordremoth being opposites is implied, not confirmed).

Do Canthans have guns? It should be noted that, other than deadeyes, there's not much in the way of guns in Elona. There's no Awakened with guns, just some select few Order of Shadows, Hanaseem, and corsairs. This can be attributed to Elona being cut off but there being some smuggling routes. Which would explain why only shady and criminal groups have guns. But Cantha had no such smuggling routes - though guns existed in Sea of Sorrows novel (at the very least after the second time skip - not sure if they're in the timeframe segment when Zhaitan rose), would they have been traded with Canthans? Would Cantha know about handheld guns at all? Would they have been developed separately than charr inventions? If so, then I think that Canthan assassins would use such. Both pistols and rifles - the latter in a more deadeye fashion, the former in a more Assassin's Creed hidden pistol fashion. They may even develop with the intent silencing the noise and increasing accuracy before things like firing rate and reload speed compared to our own development of guns, due to the higher cultural view of assassins (being that they served as a spy network, bodyguard faction, and, well, assassination faction in GW1).

> @"Ashantara.8731" said: > Well, perhaps this is what it will look like after Aurene cleansed the sea (after we defeated Bubbles)? The prismatic colors are definitely hers. Maybe, but why would they be teasing with post-ending stuff? I mean, we don't even know for certain the DSD is involved in the first place, and Aurene's cleansing results in crystals (it's basically "good corruption" after all). > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > There is a third option that hasn't been raised yet, the patron dragon of Skritt everywhere after they were introduced to each other by Zommoros: > > SHINYYYYYYYYY! I mean, nothing says the airships are coming from Tyria, in Tyria, or heading to Cantha other than OP's baseless speculation. And we know the Aetherblades have been sitting in Cantha for some unknown amount of time (long enough to get flags in Raisu Palace), so it could be _anything_ from Cantha that flies as well. > @"Grand Marshal.4098" said: > What if, these aetherblades we see, are actually Mai's crew returning from the Mists since LS1? That's very likely, though rifts by Kralkatorrik need not apply. > So after the fight in Dragonfall, what if Mai discovers those rifts and regroups with the aetherblades to go to Cantha and maybe 'utilize' the DSD's powers. Cause that's what Scarlet had in mind after awakening Mordremoth and in case she failed... Scarlet never showed any interest in an Elder Dragon other than Mordremoth, and her reason for that interest is pretty clear cut - Mordremoth was influencing her mind subtly ever since Mordy became aware of her when she entered Omadd's Machine. Not really sure what plan Scarlet could have that included the DSD and not Primordus/Jormag/Kralkatorrik. > On top of that, didn't an NPC in Lion's Arch talk about Mai being sister to Marjory? And that would make her a Canthan too. Perhaps the story gets some good development with what we already have. :o > > P.S. I would like to see Marjory facing the truth of an 'evil sister' in her homeland, especially after losing Belinda. It feels like it will be impactful. I like Marjory in general. Wild-Eyed Miller is an intentional unreliable narrator who spouts out nonsensical conspiracy theories. Mai Trin _is_ of Canthan descent (we can tell by her looks and name) but no reason to be related to Marjory Delaqua. Especially given they have different surnames: Trin and Delaqua. > @"Psientist.6437" said: > I like the way Echovald forest looks. The bubbles are...well, they exist. Could the bubbles in or coming from the Jade Sea? They look like bubbles underwater or in a thick medium, they aren't round. There could be some kind of substance filling the atmosphere. The prismatic effect may just be a way to make the bubbles stand out though. The new person has a royal bearing and is densely surrounded by whatever medium the bubbles are in. Perhaps there is some connection between Canthan royalty and the DSD. As to the origin of the bubbles being the Jade Sea - I am doubtful, because these show up in Shing Jea concept art as well as "high in the air" stuff. Makes more sense that this is more of a vision's effects - like how the visions granted by Aurene have a crystallizing effect on the borders of the screen:   > @"Grand Marshal.4098" said: > Combining this with what @"Tseison.4659" said, maybe it is possible that the royalty of the Empire of the Dragon are also the champions or lieutenants to said dragon. Now it doesnt have to be an Elder Dragon, because Glint, Aurene and Vlast already had ties with some form of champion, or tried to connect to one, without the need to reach ED status. So maybe Kuunavang? > > But if the Empire is evil, would Kuunavang help them? Perhaps it's time for a change in the hierarchy. LEt's overthrow an empire and put our own guys in charge!! xD > @"Psientist.6437" said: > I can't tell if the person looks insufferably entitled or deep in meditation. I am leaning towards the latter. She is channeling bubble magic. Hmmm...throwing away All balance or trivializing balance with a twin for Aurene would break my suspension of disbelief. Bubble magic as a domain for the DSD would push my suspension of disbelief beyond the breaking point, then rebuild it again. I feel like everyone's getting obsessed over this "champion" thing just because Jormag began doing it, when it's supposed to be a bond that the old Elder Dragons simply do not do because "_evilness_". Besides, in all cases (but the Pact Commander because _Fashion Wars_), "bonded champion" rather than "corrupted champion" _still_ results in physical alteration - Caithe is crystallized, Ryland and Bangar are icy. So I don't think that this woman is the DSD's (or Kuunavang's) "bonded champion" because no watery tentacles on her. And the thing about Jormag doing it, is that they're an exceptional manipulator who has always acted different from the other Elder Dragons, particularly in how they always coerced before corrupting.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"EdwinLi.1284" said: > > So recently Anet released new arts as a glimps into the End of Dragons. > > Fun fact: most of these were previewed in the Extra Lives stream. > > But what's new is that **Anet gives a blurb in the url for the images** > > To relate to OP's listing: > > 1) AirShips and Auerne flying to Cantha. > > 2) a New Unknown NPC. (Can't wait to finally get more Cantha themed clothing and outfits) > > 3) A glimps into a location of Echovald Forest > > 4) A small town which we maybe Shing Jea Monastery > > 1) "Fan Echo of the Mists" > 2) "A Promised Future" > 3) "A Song Half Remembered" > 4) "I Know You, Yet I Don't" > > On top of this, there is a brand new image (not from the stream) in the download pack: > > https://i.imgur.com/Hn4Rls2.jpg > > No title to this one (all in the pack are just 01-06). But it reminds me of the Heart of Maguuma in design, but curiously, it seems to be _floating._ > > Also, I don't think that's Aurene, too small for her Elder form unless she's _very_ far ahead of the airships, also no visible forearms, so likely either a Saltspray Dragon (tail doesn't match though) or oversized Imperial Phoenix. To expand the image titles: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2:_End_of_Dragons#Concept_art ["Strange Familiarity"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Echovald_Forest_concept_art_01.jpg) (bubbly echovald art) ["The Wheel Turns"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Island_concept_art.jpg) (the new island art) > @"ugrakarma.9416" said: > theres really lots of "bubbles" on these screens, so probably will be the mark of Water Dragon presence. The Deep Sea Dragon is malevolent, and ANet doesn't really use bright colors for something malevolent (not many media do, in fact; an embedded western cultural thing). So I don't think these are tied to the DSD. I'm suspecting, especially given the phrases just added, that these may be visions from the Scrying Pool and be the reason why we make our way to Cantha.

> @"Randulf.7614" said: > In the far background to the left of that tree island is some other detail, but I can't make out anything notable. Perhaps a coastline with a palm tree asd I think the ocean speads under the image of the tree as well? Looks like water and a... luxon tent? Just a tip but looks similar in design to GW1 luxon tents - sails maybe? So maybe it's the Jade Sea? Would make a bit of sense, for it to be an island with a tree on it - there were such in GW1, usually accompanied by one or two of [these guys](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Island_Guardian). Looking closely, while the left side seems floating, the right side seems to have waves crashing against the rock. So it's be a weirdly shaped island popping out of waves. So yeah, I guess that's unfrozen Jade Sea concept art. But hard to tell because of all the bubbles and visual effects.

> @"lummuss.6850" said: > Wintersday is alive, but the festival's content is dead. I have two accounts, one NA and one EU. Even today, I've seen people in everything I've done. So the content isn't dead. Just because it doesn't suit you doesn't mean it's bad or dead content. For example, I've run the hardest path of the JP (gingerbread)three times daily per account. And saw dozens of people in both the scoreboard and that path alone. Only time I ever had to sit and wait for folks was Snowball Mayhem, but that's likely because no AP is tied to it (something ANet should fix, despite there beiing an - oversized imo - repeatable achievement to it). Of course, like every festival, the first day is by far the busiest as people rush to get that annual achievement done ASAP for some reason rather than taking their time.

> @"Elric.4713" said: > That concept art of Echovald has me a little scared, I understand that the times has passes and it's suppose to be more "alive" than last we saw it, but I really wish it to still be a gloomy zone. It can have vegetation and be a dark forest at the same time, from those two pieces of art it just looks like part of Maguuma Jungle. The Echovald can still be gloomy while being "alive". There was some living plants in GW1, and plenty of green grass on the ground too. Most of the gloominess came from the trees being gray and there being barely any visible sky through the branches - if anything, the branches will be _thicker_ because they have leaves now, so while the pallet will go from "mostly gray with some green" to "equal gray/brown with green", it'll still be rather dark because of no sunlight. I would disagree that it "just looks like part of the Maguuma". Hard to tell what the new image is of (Echovald won't be featuring floating tree bark), but of the two definitely-Echovald, [one is bubbly](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Echovald_Forest_concept_art_01.png) (so vision?) thus hard to tell, but [this one](https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/7aa04a_song_half_remembered.jpg) is definitely the old Echovald but with more green.

> @"EdwinLi.1284" said: > So recently Anet released new arts as a glimps into the End of Dragons. Fun fact: most of these were previewed in the Extra Lives stream. But what's new is that **Anet gives a blurb in the url for the images** To relate to OP's listing: > 1) AirShips and Auerne flying to Cantha. > 2) a New Unknown NPC. (Can't wait to finally get more Cantha themed clothing and outfits) > 3) A glimps into a location of Echovald Forest > 4) A small town which we maybe Shing Jea Monastery 1) "Fan Echo of the Mists" 2) "A Promised Future" 3) "A Song Half Remembered" 4) "I Know You, Yet I Don't" On top of this, there is a brand new image (not from the stream) in the download pack: https://i.imgur.com/Hn4Rls2.jpg No title to this one (all in the pack are just 01-06). But it reminds me of the Heart of Maguuma in design, but curiously, it seems to be _floating._ Also, I don't think that's Aurene, too small for her Elder form unless she's _very_ far ahead of the airships, also no visible forearms, so likely either a Saltspray Dragon (tail doesn't match though) or oversized Imperial Phoenix.

> @"hugo.4705" said: > Just gonna cut the edge of destiny and mispelling parts, as to me only what is IN game matter, don't care of novels or books or stories that are around somewhere. You can't say that ANet is ignoring the lore, when you yourself ignore the lore, without coming off as excessively hypocritical. > I didn't count bleent, because, he isn't in the council room, but doing oozes experiment. Neither is Cammi, yet you included her. Again: your arguments are being hypocritical. You actively and acknowledgingly ignore half the lore just to spout others are ignoring lore. > What is my concern, is that there is NO dialogues or talk options, regarding the past events in the council, even their guide tour around rata novus isn't even mentionned! And where would this mentioning be needed? Especially about the tour - where in the context of this release's narrative would "oh, and we took tours of Rata Novus five years ago _at all matter_. It's rather odd and silly to expect a full story recap whenever we return to some character or group - I mean, we didn't really get such for Livia or Demmi in Season 3, or the Arcane Council members either, Heck, in Season 3 when Phlunt and Taimi butted heads, I don't think they ever mentioned the W.Y.R.D. that Taimi made and Phlunt appropriated, just her dislike of him for "trying to steal Novus from her". > but you can't add a new character like this, without context. Eh, you rather can, especially when the focus is on the group not the individual. Would it be _nice_ to have context? Sure. But is it _necessary?_ No. There are a **lot** of minor characters in groups - even small groups - which show up without context to their history. For example, in Season 2, there is a member of the Wardens that we interact with quite a bit in the first half - [Warden Lochin](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warden_Lochin) - who introduces us to the Pale Tree, who acts as her guard. And dies during The World Summit. And that's pretty much all we know of him, despite being presented as basically the Pale Tree's personal guard and herald. > Also, this is a personnal nitpick, but it is strange to put those 3 councillors and not even Flax which is the high councillor or Yahk, but anyway, I disliked the story. I picked those three because they're the college deans. As established already, members of the Council are **not** a set-in-stone thing, and is in fact very, very fluid. But being a college dean may very well be much less fluid, which means those three positions on the council are less likely to swap out. I would argue Yahk's position is **very** much fluid, as what's important isn't Yahk himself, but the Inquest having at least one seat on the council - Yahk is there so long as the Inquest desire him to be there. > Even you said it, the members that should be consistent are Yahk/Flax/Phlunt/Ludo/Zudo and tell me, how many of them we saw during story? ONE. Well, I just said Phlunt, Ludo, and Zudo really. That said, wiki establishes the entire PS council (even Haia) as being present in Primordus Rising instance, and Phlunt shows up in the Eye of the North. > Haia, may have been eliminated due to her tentative of assassination, but then, they should have put a sentence for the new one like "I'm replacing Haia"... I will consider that Bleent stay, so that mean, 7 seats. The correct number. Well, no. Because like Morning and Etinel, Haia mysteriously comes back to life... And is present in both Season 3 and IBS. And Bleent + Cammi + Haia and the rest = 8 seats, not 7. As I established before. 1. Flax 2. Yahk 3. Phlunt 4. Zudo 5. Ludo 6. Haia 7. Bleent 8. Cammi > About your part of "A new dragon arises" it justify a new seat, just no. Asura are too confident, and even the fact that they would go for alliance with jormag doesn't make a single sense. This is because they are so self confident and thinking only of their race instead of others that they got kicked out of their undergrounds, because their former arcane council said they are enough strong to deal with it, no hints that the story wouldn't repeat itself. This is just another bad story stelling, because they just want a plot of jormag = good. Their alliance with Jormag makes sense **because** they are too confident, and dedicating a new position to a new threat also makes sense because they hate having more tasks unrelated to their personal experiments - the Arcane Council wouldn't want to add more work onto themselves, for the same reason Yahk establishes that the other members shove their work onto him and the Inquest (which they gladly take because _power and influence mwuahahaha_). _PC: What have you done to settle Council disputes?_ _Yahk: My access to the Inquest has made it possible for me to outsource the Council's project vetting to them._ > @"hugo.4705" said: > Changing one of your council isn't one of all day thing, if it happens, every asura would receive an holo-letter on their datapad about the new councillor and its role. I think you overestimate both the level of tech asura have on an widespread individual scale, and overestimate how much asura society really cares about their so-called social government. Asura are nearly as individualistic as the norn in general, and extremely egotistical to boot. I imagine that, beyond rules and regulations that would cause them trouble, well over two thirds of the asuran population couldn't give a hoot about who is on the Arcane Council until they need to file a report. > Especially a commander associated of that race, needing to know to who he/she must speak in case of emergency. You also overestimate the Commander's influence, I think. I mean, no one really notifies them about any _other_ political matter (until the Commander is personally requested to deal with a situation, or headbutts their way into that situation). So why would the Arcane Council be any different? I think you're just being a bit bias about this off-screen development given - as you said - most of your characters are asuran. Charr, norn, humans and sylvari all received similar off-screen developments without the Commander finding out until it became important. And usually only gets to know the details of the character if the character has personal plot development like Efram.

> @"Raffrey.5271" said: > Like Kormir, a human could ascend into godhood; like Aurene, a new elder dragon could born. Would we be able to witness more events like this? > Maybe someone would try to be the god of war? Maybe there's more elder dragons out there? Tyria is big, you know. In order to become a god or Elder Dragon, the individual needs to take in the former god's or dragon's power. Balthazar was stripped of his power before GW2, so there _should already be_ a new god of war out there. In theory, a not-lesser dragon can replace Zhaitan and Mordremoth if they can get enough of their domains' power, but atm most of that power is in Primordus (and formerly Kralkatorrik). > @"Raffrey.5271" said: > There's six (if Aurene is excluded) in _that_ small corner of the world, maybe there's in fact, hundreds of them around the world...!? jk :p Nope, because the Elder Dragons are connected to The All, which is global. There are only six. The Elder Dragons being centralized around Central Tyria is just kinda bad writing and mechanical reasons to avoid building an entire new continent per Elder Dragon (and to explain disconnection to Cantha and Elona. > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > That's an interesting thought - is 'war' the central concept of the domain (as 'Knowledge' was for Kormir and Abaddon), or simply the aspect that Balthazar chose to focus on and the core concept is actually something like 'Courage' or 'Competition'? Based on [Garden of the Gods](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden_of_the_Gods#Text), the main central concepts would be: > When the gods first brought humanity to this world, they were planting a garden; we were the seeds, with Tyria the fertile soil in which we would thrive. Like all gardens, it would experience and demonstrate **life, death, challenge, order, growth, and beauty** as it matured from carefully arranged rows of potential into dynamic, evolving reality. Life = Dwayna Death = Dhuum, then Grenth Challenge = Balthazar, then unknown Order = unknown, then Abaddon, then Kormir Growth = Melandru Beauty = Lyssa. It's rather curious how three of the gods' aspects are listed with their secondary or tertiary domains (challenge (3rd), order (2nd), and growth (3rd), while the other three are their primary ones (life, death, beauty).

As per the novel Edge of Destiny, most members of the Arcane Council actually *despise* the job and will actively try to avoid. This is because being a council member means less time for their personal projects and experiments. Keep in mind that the last time we saw the full council was in 1325 AE. The closest second is 1327 AE (in Season 3 Episode 1), where ANet _very oddly_ brough Councilor Haia back to life. In Edge of Destiny, there is a newly appointed councilor - Klab - who has no mention by the time of 1325. This means that council members can "swap out" within 5 years or less. It's been 6 since 1327 (current year being 1333) and 8 since 1325. A new council member is 110% expected. In fact, the only members that should be consistent is Yahk (because Inquest _want_ a seat), Flax (who _wants_ control over asuran government - that's his personal project), and the deans of the three colleges (Phlunt, Ludo, and Zudo). This leaves 3 seats to cycle through regularly: Haia's, Bleent's, and Canni's. Vark could have replaced any one of them - or even Yahk, if the Inquest felt the need to replace him. Even ignoring the fact that Flax said he would have Haia unceremoniously assassinated for attempting to assassinate the entire rest of the Arcane Council, there are two council members distinctly MIA from Season 3's tour of Rata Novus _and_ IBS (as well as the entire personal story): [Canni](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Professor_Canni) and [bleent](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Doctor_Bleent). The second of which had an active petition to remove him from the council in 1325 (and given neither of them ever showed up for council matters, it's a good chance they eventually got replaced). It is also pretty clear this is an intentionally new NPC and new member of the Arcane Council, as he has zero similarities with any prior councillor - skin tone, skin pattern, hair color, hair pattern, face, eye color and name are _all_ different. Initially, I thought ANet had brought back another dead NPC (since they seem to do that a bit much - four times so far), [Varkk](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Varkk) who sought to join the council to further the Inquest's influence (and his own personal ambitions). But Vark and Varkk, despite the all too similar names, has zero other similarities. Thankfully. As to the spelling - the proper spelling is councilor, not councillor. The extra l was probably done for flavor, and the devs "misspelled" Vark's title in doing this. > @"hugo.4705" said: > Current known one: Haia - Ludo - Zudo - Phlunt - Flax - Yahk - Canni and there are 7 seats in the arcane level, not 8! And yes, professor Canni is a confirmed one. I don't think the number of physical seats is important. In 1325, there are 9 members, as you missed Bleent. Canni and Bleent are, as noted, MIA from IBS. And nothing actually says they cannot add a new seat - with new tasks - as new situations, like the rise of an Elder Dragon [right next door](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon's_Stand), arises.

> @"Hannelore.8153" said: > Jormag is vulnerable to fire magic simply due to being an ice dragon, its just that only Primordus's magic is on the order required to kill them, as shown by Mordremoth and Kralkatorrik being almost invulnerable. The only reason we were able to defeat Zhaitan by convential means is because he basically had no magic left by the time we reached him, with his Mouths dead and the Heartwell purified. More accurately, the "unique weakness" isn't strictly what's necessary to deliver the killing blow (keep in mind, the killing blow to Mordremoth wasn't "fighting his mind directly" but rather, killing Trahearne with Caladbolg). With Zhaitan, its unique weakness was the over-reliance on specialized minions - the Mouths and Eyes. Destroying the Mouths and Eyes weakened Zhaitan to a point where it _could_ be killed, just as severing Mordremoth's connection to the Dream weakened Mordremoth to a point where it _could_ be killed. Kralkatorrik was a bit different, in that piercing his heart with his own resonance was apparently necessary to kill him (though who knows, maybe that was just the _easiest_ means of delivering a final blow due to the toughness of Kralk's crystals - after all, conventional weaponry does seem to put cuts in his flesh as well). Primordus and Jormag can go either way - that using each other's magic will put them into a vulnerable position to allow anything of sufficient power to deliver the final blow, or that it is what's necessary for the final blow. > Its worth noting that the Jotun were once God-Kings that made even Joko look weak. If the stories are true, they existed on a level far beyond anything that exists now, and may've been as powerful as the Human Gods, individually. So there's no way of really knowing how powerful Jotun magic is, and the single demonstration we have of it (breaking the tooth) accomplished something nothing else ever has. The term for jotun royalty is actually [giant-king](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Giant-king), not god-king. And they weren't divine in any right, they were just elites among elites - as were the mursaat, Seer, dwarves, and Forgotten of that era. Definitely not Six Gods level.

> @"draxynnic.3719" said: > There is a vague basis for speculation that it might be, since it's supposed to be Primordus' power specifically that's Jormag's weakness and jotun fire magic apparently works, but that could be just a matter of it requiring sufficiently intense fire magic and Primordus is the best known source of such. However, Bitterfrost Frontier **also** establishes the Spirit of Fire to being counter to Jormag's. So just being able to hinder Jormag isn't really a vague basis to relate to Primordus' power. Similarly, the entire first half of IBS has been hinting that the bow would never be enough to actually kill Jormag, even if it can pierce Jormag's bone. > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > @"Fenom.9457" said: > > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > There is a vague basis for speculation that it might be, since it's supposed to be Primordus' power specifically that's Jormag's weakness and jotun fire magic apparently works, but that could be just a matter of it requiring sufficiently intense fire magic and Primordus is the best known source of such. > > > > > > The latest release also had a new hint that Jotun fire is tied to Primordus in some way > > I must have missed that one - where was it? There wasn't. But people (not sure if Fenom included) are pulling that as a means to explain their "Braham is becoming a champion of Primordus" theory. Which doesn't really make sense to all established lore. Which probably is why OP is asking.

> @"Fenella.2634" said: > Since when are Primordus' destroyers vulnerable to burning? Since Season 3.

> @"Hypnowulf.7403" said: > Jormag: I'm not the real threat. > Also Jormag: Hi, I'm not the threat, here. > Jormag Again: Oh hi, I know you want to murder me and my kids for some reason that seems to stem from simple-minded black & white prejudice, but I'm not the threat. > Jormag, Once Again: There's an actual threat that lurks just over the horizon and it isn't me. > Claw of Jormag: I'm scared of you but please don't kill my mom. > Jormag, Again Again: So, you may not have noticed but I don't want to fight you. A world-ending threat is knocking at your door. > Hello this is Jormag, Again: Right, look, my brother is about to awaken and he's going to make a lot of fiery explosions happen and a lot of people are going to be very dead. > Yes... Jormag Again: Will. You. People. Listen. Your inaction and tilting at icy windmills will result in so much d—Oh, too late. Here are the destroyers. I bloody tried to warn you. > > Honestly, I don't think that Primordus was any kind of surprise. Jormag has been telling us that this would happen since the beginning of the Icebrood Saga. It's just that the Commander is a bit dim. "WHAT DO YOU MEAN I SHOULDN'T LOUDLY ANNOUNCE THAT YOU'RE A SPY NEXT TO A BUNCH OF JOKO GUARDS?" (I'll never let that go.) More accurately: Bangar: Imma get me a dragon! Icebrood: ME THREAT! Sons of Svanir leader: KILL FOR JORMAG DEMANDS THEIR BLOOD! Jormag: Hello, I'm not the real threat. Drakkar, champion of Jormag: Go and kill each other please~ Bangar: Imma get me a dragon! Jormag: Hello again, I'm not the real threat here. Bangar: Now I have an army! Get me a dragon! Jormag: Hello, let me just corrupt your entire people. Sweet, thank you. Oh, ps, I'm not a threat. Jormag has been talking about not being a threat, but all of its minions and actions have been pretty damn threatening. I mean, sure, Primordus wasn't a surprise - but because of Season 3 which explicitly called them each others' weaknesses. But Jormag has a **_long_** history of not being trustworthy.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said: > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > Hard disagree. I know you're really strong feeling towards your theory of Lyssa's involvement because of purpose mist in the trailer, > The purple mist has little to nothing to do with why I suspect Lyssa involvement. It has more to do with it just making sense. > > Lyssa was stated back in the Orrian history scrolls the be the one most connected with mortals. So much so the other gods pretty much forcibly dragged her into Arah once it was complete. Balthazar not cursing Lyssa's name, and the fact he was using an artifact of Lyssa to disguise himself as Lazarus, implies she was helping him. Either directly or indirectly. > > If Lyssa doesn't show up with some plan to defeat the last dragon, or at least help fix the balance once they are all dead, then what is the purpose of the set up at all? If she doesn't care about the 6 literal world destroying, god-tier, Elder Dragons threatening the mortals, then what does she care about? The same goes for if not Cantha then where else? why would she just be twiddling her thumbs off in BFE instead of being in, or near, humans lands to help the humans? The major flaw in your argument is twofold: 1) It was Kormir, not Lyssa, who kept assisting humans after GW1, and Lyssa was mocking Kormir for this. 2) Killing Elder Dragons endangers the very Tyrians you proclaim she'd be wanting to protect. So helping Balthazar would hinder her own plans there. I don't think the ancient history of 1,000 years ago has anything to do with the Lyssa hints in PoF, as PoF firmly establishes that the gods grow increasingly distant from mortals over time; and it's pretty heavily implied Balthazar got the Mirror of Lyssa from the Orrian reliquaries - her own aid would be irrelevant, either directly or indirectly - by the fact that he arrived and hid the aspect of Lazarus without a disguise, but left with a disguise. The set up is much more strongly establishing Lyssa as a possible future villain, not some "I will help mortals even if the other gods won't" figure. Or Kormir, if my theory is accurate. > Hasn't it been largely implied that Menzies is dead? And Desmina seemed truly loyal to Grenth's ideals. Having her go evil, or have Dhuum come back, just kinda defeats the purpose of the Hall of Chains raid. There hasn't actually been a strong implication one way or the other about Menzies' fate. People take the two weapons as "heavy implication" but ultimately, they're not. The best we have is that Balthazar was bored of no conflict - but the very same source says Balthazar has been idle since Abaddon rebelled just before the Exodus, thus discrediting Menzies' existence entirely with that statement (whether intentional or not is hard to tell because ANet devs tend to forget obvious things sometimes). As to Desmina, I'm not so sure. Her final lines in the raid were _very_ ominous to me, and her actions very questionable - not very "justice is equal for all" that is Grenth.

> @"EdwinLi.1284" said: > There are vast amount of land and probably civilizations we have yet to meet and some may have new Gods and Goddesses we have never seen before. Would be neat if we finally got to see some decent evidence to the existence of gods outside of the Six. Spirits of the Wild don't really count, but Koda and Zintl (among others) could make an appearance once the Elder Dragons aren't threatening to gobble them up. For good or ill.