Supreme.3164

> @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> Boons have always been the real power creep and they will never understand it. Back then it took guards fire field blasts to keep up the 25 might stacks now classes are able to sustain 25 might stacks with no problem.

Boon uptime was increased to makeup for the deficiencies with some professions compared to others, not everybody has access to 18k or 15k base HP or inbuilt defensive mechanics like stealth, clones and shroud

Boons can be stolen/corrupted/removed very easily.......calling for a curb on boons while playing a class that doesn't specifically rely on them....it's at best...hypocritical

Professions like : ranger, ele, revenant, engineer...would become close to unplayable without the great boon uptime they currently enjoy

> @"Gogdarth.6741" said:

> It's rewarding not in the context of effort vs payoff, but in the context of Conquest - same way first incarnation of Scourge was literally actively detrimental, because area control in a gamemode where you have to stay on points is obviously strong.

>

> Ask for new gamemodes, not for further hits to Guardian. DH and FB are already pretty whatever, core is so and so.

The fact they nerfed the Range increased GM trait instead than start thinking about Conquest as the main source of the PvP balance.......speaks loudly about where the priorities are at Anet

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

>

@"Supreme.3164" said : **I suggest to transfer the whole damage from symbols to weapons themselves**

I just hate when people come up with their straw man arguments, when every point was made openly clear before hand.....nobody here is asking to kill guardian damage so let's stop pretending I do..thank you

I don't have problems with the level of damage or being bursted down quickly.....**I have problems with the excessive AoE spam in this game**, it's far too rewarding for how little coordination it needs and I can't agree with that.

Specifically I have problems with **Symbols and in a minor manner with Marks/wells** , on a note I'd say that wells/marks would not be a problem during a match if not paired always with symbol spam that tend to cover the whole point.

I suggest **to transfer the whole damage from symbols to weapons themselves** , if anything Symbols should not deal this level of damage, particularly **scepter symbol**

Closing comment : I pray...End of Dragons will bring elites with far less access to AoE spam, 1-2 centered around AoE gameplay would be fine.....having like 7 elite centered around AoE spam like PoF...would end being the worst decision Anet has ever made and if that it's already the case....

Trying to build an entire elite spec on top of a weak core class it's like trying to build a castle ...in the middle of a swamp; without a strong foundation you cannot hope to build something that will last the "testament of time" .

It's 2020, we are the doorstep of a 3rd expansion...and we still have professions with very weakened core concept, that lack identity and purpose...no utility in any spectrum of the game, what kind of balance is that? If I have to make a comparison.....

S ) Guardian and Necro - they both serve a purpose, have strong trait choices

A ) Ranger, Revenant , Thief - they are very viable and fun to play

B ) Warrior and Mesmer - somehow usable and offer a reliable foundation for future elites, easy to fix with numbers

C ) Elementalist and Engineer - Terrible in all aspects , outdated weapon skills and utilities , that little good they have get constantly dumped on to reign in powerful elites **created as compensation for the abysmal state of the core counterpart**

B ) and C ) need immediate attention , we need skill reworks here urgently....and honestly I don't know **how you're trying to create a 3rd elite while ignoring the sorry state of some core professions**

> @"FrownyClown.8402" said:

> Ranger has good traits but half its utilities are underwelming and its weapon choices for damage are lacking.

>

> Sword for example is designed for crippling your enemy while your pet takes on half the task of damage. Very 1v1 oriented weapon stuck in 2012.

>

> Signet of renewal is a great cleanse but suffers from having to take allies condis and being a stun break. Signet builds would be more popular if they removed the stun break and lowered the cd by 15s. Then it can be used for condi clear and not to break stun. Stun break could be moved to signet of stone. That alone would open up many more choices.

>

> Warhorn does far too little. Hunters call should do 2x more damage it does currently. Call of the wild needs to remove conditions or do an aoe knockback or something. That would make sword/warhorn a decent damage choice.

>

>

No to all these points.

Ranger has got some of the best utilities in the game:

-Use signet of renewal on a soulbeast, pull condis then merge...situational and nice to have

-Warhorn is great in many ways , "hunter's call" is great to trigger many sigils and other...utilities, nothing to change here

-Sword is an amazing defensive weapon once you learn to use it, leap finisher/evade and decent dmg...nothing more to add

This looks to be another long thread.....

> @"Ronald McDonald.8165" said:

> When you have the top PvPers in the game playing Holo and complaining they have to play it (but don't want to anymore) because of how overtuned it is, you know you have a problem.

Top PvPers as you define them are the main culprit beyond meta stagnation , their interests do not align with the rest of the community. Every time I watch their streams all I hear is :"remove this and remove that" so that their favorite class may prosper ; the only ones I dare to say who have ever shown a genuine interest in the well being of the game are : @"Vallun.2071" , @Chaith , @"Phantaram.1265" and @Helseth.

I am not advocating against nerfs, they're necessary in due time but.....when those nerfs destroy the identity of the class then I can't agree with them. Regardless of everything each class should be fun to play and that doesn't seem to be a major concern for this community and apparently the devs themselves

Ofc they all play some class...everything else has received mostly unreasonable nerfs where they were not needed

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> and yet nerfs can lead to balance

Can they really be called nerfs if the build/class is removed from general gameplay?

> @"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > There are tons of builds with defense mechanics that reduce the reaper shroud auto attacks (where most of the damage comes from) to pathetic triple-digit numbers. You need 3 or 4 whole auto attack rotations to kill them, if (!) they don't dodge, evade, block, disengage...

> >

> > How long do you think facetanking reaper shroud should not be punished until you consider the spec balanced?

>

> Nailed it. 99% of complaints about Necros in general boil down to "I can't facetank this DUELING CLASS and refuse to change my playstyle to deal with it, despite them having garbage mobility and almost no stunbreaks on many builds" or "condi classes are too stronk." Then they get livid when the actual answer to their problem is to get better at the game.

And yet I seen necro players complaining about other professions/specs....why is this community all about :"my class is balanced yours is OP"?

> @"Widmo.3186" said:

> I mean, you have to understand that many ppl aint calling for heavy nerfs just cuz some1 outplayed them, they got killed by counterbuild or because their build is not in meta and some1s is.

> No, they are just tired of talking to a wall called ANet company that neither communicates, nor keeps their promises. Build diveristy? Yes, nice, bunker meta where over half classes cant kill the other half, amazing. "Hotfix" patches every 2-3 weeks with bigger patch coming from time to time? No, not really, now even bigger patches aint coming too often.

> You dont have to (cant) make balance perfect. Some specs will underperform, and some slightly overperfom, happens. But when over 3/4 of what left of sPvP community yells that something is broken, each match has like 2-4 ppl abusing this build, then maybe theres something in it xD

> Yes, there are Q_Q babies that keep yelling that either teef OS them, or Mirage (kek) spams 20 confusion per second. But after just month of playtime you can see which thread is Q_Q and which is constructive criticism. For example holo. 3 years of being A-S tier in everything, after latest update players in first 2 weeks (!) noticed that nades, EE and flashbang are not right. Wheres hotfix? Any message from fellow cmc? Anything? Theres none and I could tell you why, but Id get censored as usual, so Ill stop. Instead Ill leave a quote:

>

> _"Grenades holo is the type of innovation we like to see from players."_ -CMC

There is no objectivity behind the suggestions, no consideration for what goes behind a profession and what is sacrificed to achieve something. The decaying build diversity is a direct consequence of indiscriminate nerfing done to please the masses ...that can never be pleased anyway.

You tell me that "pl aint calling for heavy nerfs just cuz some1 outplayed them"....are you 100% sure about that?

There is a huge difference between asking genuinely for balance and....constantly and vehemently asking for nerfs . The main point to remember is that **those looking for balance are searching for healthy competition to test themselves** and by contrast those who are only able to ask for nerfs day in and day out , simply speaking **are really not looking for any challenge**.

While balance issues will always be present in a MMO, it is also true that **a problematic class/spec is not necessarily a balance issue** , not every spec and class should be a "walk in the park" to deal with and this may be an extreme statement but ...a healthy competitive environment is one lacking "rock-paper-scissor" sort of balance, the same one promised by the devs...the same one still missing from the game

If you look at each nerf thread for each class and you summarize all the nerf requests in a single list, you realize that **the name of the class is the only thing**people did not ask to remove.

And the questions remains : **how professions A-B-C..... supposed to fight yours?**; when it comes to remove things...everybody a dev....they are : platinum+, legendary, gods, AT winners....basically game designers minus the actual professional title and experience; if we then ask these "devs" how to balance each class..they will answer with : "I am not a dev"........

I'll be honest; to me it seems that people really **play a MMO like it is some single player RPG with multiplayer** where they are the heroes and the whole game is populated with NPC : defeat is not possible,it's unacceptable and nothing can get close to their "power level"

The devs "mostly" ignoring the PvP/WvW forum comes as no surprise, would they consider every single nerf thread....there would be no GW2, there would be no game to load on the server because everything would have no sustain and would do no damage.

Although I do believe that Anet would be more open to communication if the playerbase would be more honest with itself : **have the courage, integrity and honesty to recognize the strengths of their class...before pointing fingers** but right now every thread prove otherwise....hypocrisy runs rampant , dishonesty is the norm.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Thiefs not bad but it's not good either. The balance players that dislike thief want is not only bad for thief but also the game. Thief should have thee highest quick burst in the game given its archetype and design. Rogue and rogue likes are designed to be highly mobile and strike quick and hard using tactic that that stay true to the archetype whether it pisses players off or not, and if a rogue type is pissing players off it's doing its job. They should be squishy yet slippery and punish players hard if they get their burst off but in today's current game state it can take to long to even +1 for a teammate due to the insane sustain classes have either through healing or through defensive skills. Yes a thief should be able to significantly burst a tank if it gets its burst of, not one shot it of course but its burst should be significant enough to make quick work of ANY class in a +1, that's the reward for a rogue choosing their fights wisely and punishment for opponent being in a +1 but not in gw2 right now as a great holo,ranger,guard,rev and scourge can stall the fight far longer in a +1 than should be possible. On top classes that can survive in fights for longer periods are bursting as mush as the burst classes. There's literally no identity throughout the classes and all the roles are completely messed up and half backed into all classes but in away that is completely out of balance between each other. Too many classes are great at to many things and others gbage at too many things while being great at a few and some class are great at things ud think would be the weakness of such a archetype or design of a class. Honestly the pvp is completely lost in gw2 unless the devs do a complete overhaul and actually put real work into it, not some lazy blanket nerf to every class with no regards to how it actually effects each class individually. The we can only change numbers on balance is so laughable and unprofessional from a dev omg, sure design team will get to fixing things properly......6 yrs down the rd 3 traits may get designed throughout those yrs. I'm surprised ncsoft is ok with how things have been.

If you say that thieves should be "squishy" then you're asking for far less access to stealth.....I can't agree on an ideology that a class should "piss off others" that's not a legitimate balance request, if that would be the case then we should reintroduce all the damage taken away from other burst specs like Fa ele, sic'em ranger, core guardian hammer, shiro s/s , oneshot mesmer and so on and so on.

For huge reward there should be **huge risk** and the latter should not occur only when "you do the mistake", that's a low risk instance...hardly a high risk one; right now it's possible to "punish" thieves only if you have access to things like : reveal - huge instant burst -teleports and high reflex rate...that's a lot to ask.

It's not really possible to talk about balance with players on the forum without hitting **that Bias wall**

> @"FrownyClown.8402" said:

> Offhand sword with a 600 range leap and another skill with an evade.

>

> Gain the ability to summon pets instead of swap, allowing for 2 pets at once. Tradeoff is they cant be unsummoned and need to be kept alive to get any use out of them. When a pet dies it goes on a 30s cd.

Rangers at large simply don't want an elite strongly based on pets because....

1-The AI is pretty terrible

2-The pets will be hard nerfed in the end if they prove to be useful or worst do great DPS

3-This sub-community needs something that offers more WvW presence , another duellist build is surely not needed...we have already dozen of them

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > You can't say "x has been here since launch" when they just did a complete revamp to the game and gutted/removed so much stuff in Feb. The feb patch is basically GW2: Reloaded, so yes, things that weren't too strong will suddenly be too strong now when you *REVAMP THE ENTIRE GAME*.

>

> Funny how we had CI Mirage pre february patch, and CI was a trait that has been around for a long time as well.

Main difference I believe is that C.mirage was a duellist build and CI allowed very strong **ranged** pressure..the keyword here is ranged

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> You know what, on a different note, here is a list of class balance commentary:

>

> * War - Should stay the same as it is now. It's in a good place balance wise/feel wise.

> * Spellbreaker - Same as War. If it weren't for OP classes, Spellbreaker feels good to play and play against.

> * Berserker - It's actually not bad in the absence of the current OP classes. Don't feel like it's sitting in a cherry spot though.

> * Guard - Needs either a damage or sustain shave. Should stay the way it is other than that. It feels good to play right now.

> * Dragonhunter - I feel like it's balanced nowadays, but underused due to presence of broken classes. Though it isn't in a sweet spot.

> * Firebrand - It's right where it should be for once. Leave it alone.

> * Rev - Never see it in play, no idea

> * Herald - Needs a decrese in its teleportation frequency and it would be balanced. Leave it as is.

> * Renegade - Feels balanced at times. Other times I feel like Kalla needs reviewing. I don't know Ren enough to really comment.

> * Engi - Only reason it's not being used is due to how strong Scrapper/Holo are right now. Wouldn't say it's in a sweet spot though.

> * Scrapper - Balanced. It would see a lot more play if it weren't for other super specs.

> * Holo - It's packing way too much after flashbang. Imo forge needs to go to a 9s CD and flashbang needs to be removed.

> * Thief - Balanced outside of Deadly Arts line as usual. Leave everything else alone.

> * Daredevil - Balanced. Leave it alone.

> * Deadeye - 1/2 a step away from no longer playable. If you don't want to give it back its damage, give it some passive sustain that comes from DE trait line abilities so it's at least playable in spvp.

> * Ranger - Balanced. Leave it alone. Some would say it fell out, but that's only because of the presence of OP things. If those things were nerfed, Ranger would be sitting in a nice sweet spot. Even the way core ranger plays right now, is how it should have always felt.

> * Druid - In a bad place. See the link in my signature about Druid competitive suggestions.

> * Soulbeast - Balanced. Leave it alone. If the god tier specs were nerfed, Soulbeast would be sitting in a sweet spot. And aside from what many people may say, I actually agree with the no pet swap drawback.

> * Mes - Balanced if in a world without god tier specs. It actually feels good to play at this point. Leave it alone, nerf the out of control specs.

> * Chrono - ^ same as Mes

> * Mirage - Needs its 2nd dodge back and compensation for losing expertise stat.

> * Ele - Kind of weak tbh. Tempest & Weaver provide really really powerful mechanics that Ele simply does not have access to.

> * Tempest - Shocking Aura seriously needs to be heavily nerfed. The CC could be changed to a 1/2 daze and it would be functional. It does not need to be a 1s stun for such a ridiculously persistent passive effect.

> * Weaver - These are actually really strong right now and I'm not really sure why I don't see them being used more often. I suppose it's because "Why roll Weaver when you could roll Tempest Aura Share?" But Weaver is on the verge of being OP if other things were to be nerfed.

> * Necro - Kind of fell out but you know what? It's where it should be for a core spec. Though I do have to say that Vampiric Rituals needs to be put right back where it once was. It was a bad idea to remove that trait and tinker with wells. It removed an entire category of niche builds that many people really enjoyed the feel of.

> * Reaper - Too strong right now. Though I feel like this is more of a symptom of the disease that is Tempest Shocking Aura Share. The Reaper became super OP when he's running around with Shocking Aura all of the time in team fights. That's pretty much exactly what happened. If Shock Aura was nerfed, leave Reaper as is. It's in a good place.

> * Scourge - Exactly where it should be. Leave it as is.

>

> Just my opinions. I feel like if the actual problems were addressed next time around rather than a stir the bucket approach, we'd have a good balanced meta on our hands.

Don't want to comment too much but....

1.Guardian sustain is not nearly as high as you make it sounds

2.Weaver is not used ...because simply it's weak, even more in PvP than WvW where still doesn't see much play ( not even staff weaver is used anymore ), the number of people playing eles has drastically reduced over the years and if my words are not enough, here are some more info from @Blamthrax , supposedly one of the few TOP eles

https://arenalabsgw2.podbean.com/e/episode-7-the-last-weaver-feat-blam/

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > > > Oh dear.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. We aren't in a condi meta. The fact that there are handful of viable condi builds amongst the endless sea of power builds, doesn't mean condi meta. I see more power revs than condi revs these days, warriors on the rare occasion you see them are power, guardians are split 50/50 between power and condi atm, as are rangers, holos/scrappers are power, thieves are mostly power atm, necro is split 50/50 between power reapers and condi core/scourge, eles are mostly either playing support tempest or LR, and mesmers atm appear to be playing hybrid. Where is the condi meta? It seems like a pretty healthy mixture to me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2. Exactly what passive CC are you talking about? And you say it's been added..... what was added? Apart from Flashbang. Shocking aura access is the same as its been since HoT release. None of the CC that scourge or FB do is 'passive'. If the issue is just with Flashbang and shocking-aura (it's debatable whether shocking aura is "passive" since it requires deliberate activation) then just say so.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3. You got supports 100% wrong here. The reason all "supports" at the moment are more like cc/tank hybrids, is that a purely support focused build is not viable at the moment. If you try and play a pure healing/boon guardian, or a pure healing tempest, or a pure healing druid, scrapper, ventari, you'll fail miserably. To be worth a player slot you also have to be providing heavy CC or moderate damage on top of heals. If you can't provide those, then an additional DPS player is preferable to a pure support.

> > > > >

> > > > > I never said we were in a condi meta. I said we were in a condi heavy meta. Reread it.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. Thieves are nearly 75% PD Condi in NA and they are played often. Even in ATs good teams stack them lately, which is obnoxious. I had recently posted a screenshot of my team against Vaans' team in the final round of an AT. We had 4 PD Thieves in the match. This is where the difference is between EU players saying that condi isn't that big of a thing, but NA players complaining about too much condi. Outside of that yeah, it's nearly 50/50 power & condi play. But that doesn't change my point of view that condi heavy metas have bad dynamic.

> > > > > 2. What passive CC am I talking about? Exactly what I said in the OP post. And yes, Shocking Aura is as passive as it gets. The Tempest itself casts it frequently and then after it is cast it lingers passively and auto CCs when players attempt attacks. Now when we're talking Aura Share, OTHER PLAYERS ARE DOING NOTHING to benefit Shocking Aura Share which once it goes onto them, it passively lingers there, interrupting enemies who attempt attacks around them. That's pretty much the epitome of passive CC. I don't understand how you can try to argue that.

> > > > > 3. About Supports - I don't care if the Supports are Full-Support, Hybrid-Support, or Berserker Amulet-Support. The fact of the matter is that regardless of what ratio of Offense to Defense they are running on the build, they're still pumping out over-tweaked support whereas other classes don't have support at all. You fail to mention that things like Shocking Aura Share with Lightning Rod actually work better with high DPS for its support factor. And how things like condi cleansing & prot spam & team stab & bubbles for proj reflection type support, works exactly the same whether a Full-Support build or a Berserker-Support build. The only thing different on a Full-Support build really, is heal factor when someone is choosing to run something like Mender. Right now in this meta, Supports are optimizing for high damage with damage mitigation techniques, rather than raw healing. This style of support is showing to be much stronger and proving that my statement holds true when I said that: "Supports are too strong right now" regardless of why or how. I don't understand what your point in your 3) was, as if it were trying to avoid this fact.

> > > >

> > > > Shocking aura is not passive at all , you don't get passively stunned unless you attack the ele **exactly** like full counter that you consider "heavy telegraph"; furthermore the aura is plenty visible. Since launch auras have worked "on hit" and full counter can be used way more frequently than SA seen as it's on a 8s CD

> > >

> > > If I put down a symbol then the tempest uses shock aura and runs into my symbol, I get stunned. I continue to get stunned if it AOE's shock aura onto more people and am basically stunlocked from CC I had to ""predict"" coming by literally not pressing my highest damaging ability. Shock aura is completely broken and passive, and it's counter play is simply not playing the game at all.

> > >

> > > Not playing GW2 isn't good counterplay for an ability btw.

> >

> > Shocking aura has been here since launch ..which was 8 years ago, that was plenty of time to learn how to counterplay the skill :

> >

> > 1.The stun is only **melee**

> > 2. You have stability

> > 3. Only last 4s and stun once every 2s for 1s

> > 4. Does not reflect or block incoming dmg be it condi or direct

> >

> > Saying that Shocking aura stops you from playing the game is a pompous grossly exaggeration to say the least

>

> You can't say "x has been here since launch" when they just did a complete revamp to the game and gutted/removed so much stuff in Feb. The feb patch is basically GW2: Reloaded, so yes, things that weren't too strong will suddenly be too strong now when you *REVAMP THE ENTIRE GAME*.

>

> Also, please take a long hard look at how much stability access people have now. It's basically non-existent, so putting that as a point is basically backing up my argument that the game is completely different now, and things that used to counter it no longer exist.

> That's kind of how game changes work.

Nothing that allows counterplay to CC has been gutted, they did not remove stunbreaks as far as I can remember and Stability uptime was reduced by a tad.....amusingly enough : elementalist was the class most affected when they removed stability from the stance GM trait, other professions have been left **almost** unaffected

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > > > Oh dear.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. We aren't in a condi meta. The fact that there are handful of viable condi builds amongst the endless sea of power builds, doesn't mean condi meta. I see more power revs than condi revs these days, warriors on the rare occasion you see them are power, guardians are split 50/50 between power and condi atm, as are rangers, holos/scrappers are power, thieves are mostly power atm, necro is split 50/50 between power reapers and condi core/scourge, eles are mostly either playing support tempest or LR, and mesmers atm appear to be playing hybrid. Where is the condi meta? It seems like a pretty healthy mixture to me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2. Exactly what passive CC are you talking about? And you say it's been added..... what was added? Apart from Flashbang. Shocking aura access is the same as its been since HoT release. None of the CC that scourge or FB do is 'passive'. If the issue is just with Flashbang and shocking-aura (it's debatable whether shocking aura is "passive" since it requires deliberate activation) then just say so.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3. You got supports 100% wrong here. The reason all "supports" at the moment are more like cc/tank hybrids, is that a purely support focused build is not viable at the moment. If you try and play a pure healing/boon guardian, or a pure healing tempest, or a pure healing druid, scrapper, ventari, you'll fail miserably. To be worth a player slot you also have to be providing heavy CC or moderate damage on top of heals. If you can't provide those, then an additional DPS player is preferable to a pure support.

> > > > >

> > > > > I never said we were in a condi meta. I said we were in a condi heavy meta. Reread it.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. Thieves are nearly 75% PD Condi in NA and they are played often. Even in ATs good teams stack them lately, which is obnoxious. I had recently posted a screenshot of my team against Vaans' team in the final round of an AT. We had 4 PD Thieves in the match. This is where the difference is between EU players saying that condi isn't that big of a thing, but NA players complaining about too much condi. Outside of that yeah, it's nearly 50/50 power & condi play. But that doesn't change my point of view that condi heavy metas have bad dynamic.

> > > > > 2. What passive CC am I talking about? Exactly what I said in the OP post. And yes, Shocking Aura is as passive as it gets. The Tempest itself casts it frequently and then after it is cast it lingers passively and auto CCs when players attempt attacks. Now when we're talking Aura Share, OTHER PLAYERS ARE DOING NOTHING to benefit Shocking Aura Share which once it goes onto them, it passively lingers there, interrupting enemies who attempt attacks around them. That's pretty much the epitome of passive CC. I don't understand how you can try to argue that.

> > > > > 3. About Supports - I don't care if the Supports are Full-Support, Hybrid-Support, or Berserker Amulet-Support. The fact of the matter is that regardless of what ratio of Offense to Defense they are running on the build, they're still pumping out over-tweaked support whereas other classes don't have support at all. You fail to mention that things like Shocking Aura Share with Lightning Rod actually work better with high DPS for its support factor. And how things like condi cleansing & prot spam & team stab & bubbles for proj reflection type support, works exactly the same whether a Full-Support build or a Berserker-Support build. The only thing different on a Full-Support build really, is heal factor when someone is choosing to run something like Mender. Right now in this meta, Supports are optimizing for high damage with damage mitigation techniques, rather than raw healing. This style of support is showing to be much stronger and proving that my statement holds true when I said that: "Supports are too strong right now" regardless of why or how. I don't understand what your point in your 3) was, as if it were trying to avoid this fact.

> > > >

> > > > Shocking aura is not passive at all , you don't get passively stunned unless you attack the ele **exactly** like full counter that you consider "heavy telegraph"; furthermore the aura is plenty visible. Since launch auras have worked "on hit" and full counter can be used way more frequently than SA seen as it's on a 8s CD

> > >

> > > If I put down a symbol then the tempest uses shock aura and runs into my symbol, I get stunned. I continue to get stunned if it AOE's shock aura onto more people and am basically stunlocked from CC I had to ""predict"" coming by literally not pressing my highest damaging ability. Shock aura is completely broken and passive, and it's counter play is simply not playing the game at all.

> > >

> > > Not playing GW2 isn't good counterplay for an ability btw.

> >

> > Shocking aura has been here since launch ..which was 8 years ago, that was plenty of time to learn how to counterplay the skill :

> >

> > 1.The stun is only **melee**

> > 2. You have stability

> > 3. Only last 4s and stun once every 2s for 1s

> > 4. Does not reflect or block incoming dmg be it condi or direct

> >

> > Saying that Shocking aura stops you from playing the game is a pompous grossly exaggeration to say the least

>

> 1. No it isn't. When I try to use Lightning Reflexes while in range of Shocking Aura, it prevents me from using my evade and nullifies the point of the stun break to begin with. The same goes for other non melee damage sources.

> 2. **You reference Shocking Aura being in the game for 8 years and this is true. But in those initial years, it was convenient for every build to run as much Stability as they could. And later years, +conc stat amulets were introduced along with runes that added wildly large amounts of flat +boon durations. During these years, a single proc of Stability with say 10 stacks, would last like 15s to 20s. This is why no one noticed Shocking Aura during those years. AFTER the legend nerf patch that massively lowered DPS, removed tons of stun breaks, removed stability procs, removed +conc stat amulets, and hard nerfed +boon duration runes, players now have access to roughly 2/3rds of the stun breaks they previously had, and only 1/3rd of the Stability access & uptime. This makes it so that for many classes/builds, it simply isn't worth bringing Stability at all because the procs are infrequent and short duration. Utility skills slots & traits are often better used in other ways. <- These are the reasons why Shocking Aura is a problem now, post legend nerf patch.**

> 3. "Only lasts 4s and stun once every 2s for 1s" Yeah against 5 opponents. Each opponent can be struck by Shocking Aura once per 2s. So with that 4s of Shocking aura while in a team fight, it can potentially land 10x instant unavoidable interrupts against 5 opponents, for a total of 10s worth of stun collectively and on only a 25s CD. And that 25s CD is for just the actual normal skill, not countering traits or abilities or other sources that cause it to happen much more frequently. Dude that's way too much CC to be healthy for the game after so much counter play vs. CC was removed from the game. And that's not even mentioning the entirely passive nature of it.

> 4. Doesn't reflect or block damage? Dude it interrupts incoming damage. That's like equal to reflects or blocks if not better, because it is CCing opponents so they themselves are being setup to be counter pressured. Not sure if you're being serious with your responses or not tbh.

>

> No one said Shocking Aura stops them from playing the game. People say it bogs the game dynamic down, and it does.

1. It is melee range, this is a fact

2. and 3. How people run their builds got nothing to do with what is available in game in terms of counterplay , **as a matter of fact elementalist was the most affected by the removal of stability/stunbreak**, they removed stability from weaver and doubled the CD of Twist of fate; the stability uptime of : rangers, warriors, guardians, engineers is basically the same here as far as I can remember, yes Soulbeast had Dolyak stance doubled in CD and Corona burst/Foot in the grave removal of stability....other than that there has been no massive reduction in the number of stunbreaks and stability uptime

4. Does not reflect or block damage as fact, **it interrupts melee attacks from opponents lacking stability**

Shocking aura works as deterrent and it does its job, now I have seen the idea of changing stun to daze, that would work too.....anything that doesn't change the defensive nature of the skill would work.

As long there is counterplay is available in game...you can't really expect the game to be balanced based on what you find "convenient" to run on your build

> @"wevh.2903" said:

> > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > Imagine thinking tornado is weak...... huh lol

> >

> > The heck you smoking, Tornado is the weakest of all transform skills in the entire game.

> > Comparing Dagger Storm to Tornado is another joke.

> > Tornado have VERY limited uses and 99% of times(wow, you prevent stomp/ress sometimes if lucky, O M G SUCH BROKEN SKILL) is completely useless like most of eles elite skills.

> > Dagger Storm is another "oh kitten" skill for teef that grants long evasion, which can only be counter by like 7 skills in the entire game. What you want more? Combo it with Basilisk Venom so it'll stun anything the dagger hits for 10min?

> > Imagine asking for powercreep buffs for a skill that actually should get nerfs.

>

> Imagine thinking preventing a ress is not a important thing , ele tornado had low cd and lot of utility

Even a simple chocking gas can do that....or a chaotic release...or a rampage....a gravity well.....a thunderclap....a "chilled to the bones"...an elite that is as good as an weapon skill without further benefits....it's not a good elite

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> @"Supreme.3164" shocking aura is defensive, untill 25might, quickness holo is running you the kitten down, and you can stop him due to shocking aura that will stun you if you try to fight back :D

Assuming I understand the meaning as the sentence is quite confusing...how exactly does the holo get shocking aura? runes of surging?

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > Oh dear.

> > > >

> > > > 1. We aren't in a condi meta. The fact that there are handful of viable condi builds amongst the endless sea of power builds, doesn't mean condi meta. I see more power revs than condi revs these days, warriors on the rare occasion you see them are power, guardians are split 50/50 between power and condi atm, as are rangers, holos/scrappers are power, thieves are mostly power atm, necro is split 50/50 between power reapers and condi core/scourge, eles are mostly either playing support tempest or LR, and mesmers atm appear to be playing hybrid. Where is the condi meta? It seems like a pretty healthy mixture to me.

> > > >

> > > > 2. Exactly what passive CC are you talking about? And you say it's been added..... what was added? Apart from Flashbang. Shocking aura access is the same as its been since HoT release. None of the CC that scourge or FB do is 'passive'. If the issue is just with Flashbang and shocking-aura (it's debatable whether shocking aura is "passive" since it requires deliberate activation) then just say so.

> > > >

> > > > 3. You got supports 100% wrong here. The reason all "supports" at the moment are more like cc/tank hybrids, is that a purely support focused build is not viable at the moment. If you try and play a pure healing/boon guardian, or a pure healing tempest, or a pure healing druid, scrapper, ventari, you'll fail miserably. To be worth a player slot you also have to be providing heavy CC or moderate damage on top of heals. If you can't provide those, then an additional DPS player is preferable to a pure support.

> > >

> > > I never said we were in a condi meta. I said we were in a condi heavy meta. Reread it.

> > >

> > > 1. Thieves are nearly 75% PD Condi in NA and they are played often. Even in ATs good teams stack them lately, which is obnoxious. I had recently posted a screenshot of my team against Vaans' team in the final round of an AT. We had 4 PD Thieves in the match. This is where the difference is between EU players saying that condi isn't that big of a thing, but NA players complaining about too much condi. Outside of that yeah, it's nearly 50/50 power & condi play. But that doesn't change my point of view that condi heavy metas have bad dynamic.

> > > 2. What passive CC am I talking about? Exactly what I said in the OP post. And yes, Shocking Aura is as passive as it gets. The Tempest itself casts it frequently and then after it is cast it lingers passively and auto CCs when players attempt attacks. Now when we're talking Aura Share, OTHER PLAYERS ARE DOING NOTHING to benefit Shocking Aura Share which once it goes onto them, it passively lingers there, interrupting enemies who attempt attacks around them. That's pretty much the epitome of passive CC. I don't understand how you can try to argue that.

> > > 3. About Supports - I don't care if the Supports are Full-Support, Hybrid-Support, or Berserker Amulet-Support. The fact of the matter is that regardless of what ratio of Offense to Defense they are running on the build, they're still pumping out over-tweaked support whereas other classes don't have support at all. You fail to mention that things like Shocking Aura Share with Lightning Rod actually work better with high DPS for its support factor. And how things like condi cleansing & prot spam & team stab & bubbles for proj reflection type support, works exactly the same whether a Full-Support build or a Berserker-Support build. The only thing different on a Full-Support build really, is heal factor when someone is choosing to run something like Mender. Right now in this meta, Supports are optimizing for high damage with damage mitigation techniques, rather than raw healing. This style of support is showing to be much stronger and proving that my statement holds true when I said that: "Supports are too strong right now" regardless of why or how. I don't understand what your point in your 3) was, as if it were trying to avoid this fact.

> >

> > Shocking aura is not passive at all , you don't get passively stunned unless you attack the ele **exactly** like full counter that you consider "heavy telegraph"; furthermore the aura is plenty visible. Since launch auras have worked "on hit" and full counter can be used way more frequently than SA seen as it's on a 8s CD

>

> If I put down a symbol then the tempest uses shock aura and runs into my symbol, I get stunned. I continue to get stunned if it AOE's shock aura onto more people and am basically stunlocked from CC I had to ""predict"" coming by literally not pressing my highest damaging ability. Shock aura is completely broken and passive, and it's counter play is simply not playing the game at all.

>

> Not playing GW2 isn't good counterplay for an ability btw.

Shocking aura has been here since launch ..which was 8 years ago, that was plenty of time to learn how to counterplay the skill :

1.The stun is only **melee**

2. You have stability

3. Only last 4s and stun once every 2s for 1s

4. Does not reflect or block incoming dmg be it condi or direct

Saying that Shocking aura stops you from playing the game is a pompous grossly exaggeration to say the least

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > @"Supreme.3164"

> > >

> > > Dude that's like saying Flashbang isn't passive.

> > >

> > > Some of you guys have very interesting requirements for what you would consider passive CC. I'd love to hear an explanation.

> > >

> > > GOOGLE's definition of "Passive" says: _without active response_

> > >

> > > So I must be very confused somehow. I mean for some reason I'm imagining that after one dodge rolls with Flashbang and then the CC happens instantly with no requirement for player response when an opponent tries to hit him, or after Shocking Aura is cast the CCs happen instantly with no requirement for player response when an opponents try to hit, that this would be considered passive. You know, according the English language's definition of "Passive".

> > >

> > > You guys are making claims for the sake of argument, kind of like if I said: "Defy Pain isn't a passive trait because you have to enter a fight and get to 50% health before it works. Come on boys. Flashbang and Shocking Aura are passive CC. Sure, you have to dodge roll or do a quick cast to prime it, but it's all passive instant CC that cannot be avoided when a player makes a strike, after it is primed. Trying to claim the two are somehow "Active" is a far cry from how CCs like Bull's Charge or Earthshaker are "Active". Those are skills you have to time and aim and you can take no other actions while using them because they aren't a passive proc that lingers on you while you use all of your other skills.

> > >

> > > Argue all you want but make the arguments reasonable.

> >

> > Following your logic then **counterattack** on Ranger greatsword is passive too because you get knocked back **if you hit** the ranger while he's parrying ...then it should be removed too following again your logic

> >

> > The following are "on hit" CC too

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bandit%27s_Defense

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Full_Counter

> >

> > I may have forgotten others but yeah, here the CC happens if you hit the target..so we should remove them too

>

> That is about as far from the listed logic as possible.

>

> When the Ranger blocks, if it gets hit, the skill turns into Counterattack. Then the Ranger must push the button again to use the Counterattack, which has an animation and must be aimed. During this time no other skills can be used because it is an active use weapon kit skill with an animation that must be aimed.

>

> Shocking Aura is literally an aura that hovers about someone for 4s after it is cast, allowing up to 2x procs from the 4s against each attacking opponent. Because it is an aura, after it is cast, it allows the person with the aura to take other actions because it is not an active use skill, it is an aura. Furthermore, the CC has no animation time and instantaneously activates when an opponent hits the person with any attack at all. If this wasn't enough, it also can hit enemies during attacks that evade like Unrelenting Assault and Surge of the Mists, because it is not an active use CC but rather an aura that lands an instant CC with no animation whatsoever against any opponent that attacks the person with the aura.

>

> Just stop. Shocking Aura is as passive as it gets.

>

>

You have your idea of passive and that's it. In the end shocking aura is a defensive mechanic placed there to give a **breathing room** from the constant focus, can you propose alternatives for replacement and that end up doing the same thing?

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > @"Supreme.3164"

> > >

> > > Dude that's like saying Flashbang isn't passive.

> > >

> > > Some of you guys have very interesting requirements for what you would consider passive CC. I'd love to hear an explanation.

> > >

> > > GOOGLE's definition of "Passive" says: _without active response_

> > >

> > > So I must be very confused somehow. I mean for some reason I'm imagining that after one dodge rolls with Flashbang and then the CC happens instantly with no requirement for player response when an opponent tries to hit him, or after Shocking Aura is cast the CCs happen instantly with no requirement for player response when an opponents try to hit, that this would be considered passive. You know, according the English language's definition of "Passive".

> > >

> > > You guys are making claims for the sake of argument, kind of like if I said: "Defy Pain isn't a passive trait because you have to enter a fight and get to 50% health before it works. Come on boys. Flashbang and Shocking Aura are passive CC. Sure, you have to dodge roll or do a quick cast to prime it, but it's all passive instant CC that cannot be avoided when a player makes a strike, after it is primed. Trying to claim the two are somehow "Active" is a far cry from how CCs like Bull's Charge or Earthshaker are "Active". Those are skills you have to time and aim and you can take no other actions while using them because they aren't a passive proc that lingers on you while you use all of your other skills.

> > >

> > > Argue all you want but make the arguments reasonable.

> >

> > Following your logic then **counterattack** on Ranger greatsword is passive too because you get knocked back **if you hit** the ranger while he's parrying ...then it should be removed too following again your logic

> >

> > The following are "on hit" CC too

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bandit%27s_Defense

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Full_Counter

> >

> > I may have forgotten others but yeah, here the CC happens if you hit the target..so we should remove them too

>

> Your way off man neither rangers block nor bandits defense work like that. Those are by definition active knockbacks, because u must activate them.

You can't CC anybody unless they hit you first....exactly like shocking aura, if you don't pay attention you get CCed by the ranger or thief and that's exactly like shocking aura, now the OP stating the auras are passive because the ele doesn't activate the skill when he's actually hit but...**the conditions for the CC to occur are exactly the same, you need to hit the target first**

By the way **Shocking aura is on activation too** if you or the OP didn't know, another argument would have been to change 1st part of shocking aura into a block or dmg mitigation

Can we please extend the wardrobe functionality to accessories ? It has become a rather difficult task to differentiate between gear stats when all rings/earrings share the same skin and we have many builds to juggle around

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> @"Supreme.3164"

>

> Dude that's like saying Flashbang isn't passive.

>

> Some of you guys have very interesting requirements for what you would consider passive CC. I'd love to hear an explanation.

>

> GOOGLE's definition of "Passive" says: _without active response_

>

> So I must be very confused somehow. I mean for some reason I'm imagining that after one dodge rolls with Flashbang and then the CC happens instantly with no requirement for player response when an opponent tries to hit him, or after Shocking Aura is cast the CCs happen instantly with no requirement for player response when an opponents try to hit, that this would be considered passive. You know, according the English language's definition of "Passive".

>

> You guys are making claims for the sake of argument, kind of like if I said: "Defy Pain isn't a passive trait because you have to enter a fight and get to 50% health before it works. Come on boys. Flashbang and Shocking Aura are passive CC. Sure, you have to dodge roll or do a quick cast to prime it, but it's all passive instant CC that cannot be avoided when a player makes a strike, after it is primed. Trying to claim the two are somehow "Active" is a far cry from how CCs like Bull's Charge or Earthshaker are "Active". Those are skills you have to time and aim and you can take no other actions while using them because they aren't a passive proc that lingers on you while you use all of your other skills.

>

> Argue all you want but make the arguments reasonable.

Following your logic then **counterattack** on Ranger greatsword is passive too because you get knocked back **if you hit** the ranger while he's parrying ...then it should be removed too following again your logic

The following are "on hit" CC too

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bandit%27s_Defense

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Full_Counter

I may have forgotten others but yeah, here the CC happens if you hit the target..so we should remove them too