LucianTheAngelic.7054

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> I have mentioned this before in another post : I think Orbs should be reworked together with Staff.

>

> 1. Combine Staff 3 and Staff 5, give Staff 5 the instant execution again because now Staff 3 "tells" for Staff 5.

I really don’t want my CC and Evade hidden behind a channeled block

No keep doing mini seasons

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Just did the south meta on NA. No lag or any kind. I had everything on high settings too. I suggest adjusting your settings to something that your PC can handle and most importantly setting player model limit to the lowest setting.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Edit:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Just did north. It’s slightly more FPS intensive than south but still manageable. Reducing the player model limit removed any FPS issues altogether. No skill lag.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I should also mention that during both of these metas, not once did I see anyone complain about lag.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It’s an EU problem judging by the number of reports on it since April

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Appears to be, I've noticed an increased amount of latency issues over the last few months on EU.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This is happening in NA as well, not just EU. It’s a game wide problem

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It’s not an NA problem if there are people unaffected.

> > > > >

> > > > > Imagine thinking something’s not a problem just because you’re not affected by it. What a world to live in.

> > > >

> > > > If the issue were the servers, wouldn’t everyone be affected? When I have an issue with my computer, generally everything I use on it is impacted.

> > >

> > > I can only comment on EU, but whatever the issue, it isn't player based because it is far too widespread and that is being reported everytime I go onto an affected map by many people playing there. There are reports of it not being everyone, but there is a wider issue somewhere and it is confined to specific maps.

> > >

> > > What the exact cause of the skill lag and game freezes is is unknown because despite offers by many to help work with Anet to troubleshoot it, Anet are silent on it

> >

> > I’m hesitant to go with “player based” as that implies operator error to me.

> >

> > Issues with lag can come from your PC, the servers, or somewhere between.

> >

> > For the PC, you could simply be running at settings that you PC cannot handle. People have a tendency to run games at settings that their systems cannot handle and Anet’s poor optimization doesn’t help the matter.

> >

> > You could be running additional programs which strain your system as well. Failing, or underperforming, hardware could also be an issue. How many people regularly maintain their PC?

> >

> > A lot of people use WiFi connection and I wager a guess that it would be a large majority. Some surveys I found online estimate up to 90%. WiFi routers tend to slow down as more devices connect to them or if someone is doing something that takes a lot of bandwidth. This causes packet loss which can lead to lag spikes.

> >

> > The issue could be with your ISP. They could simply be routing connections to the servers in a really janky way. It’s not the same for every game either as the routing could be different for them. I’ve also read that ISPs also limit data connections based on the service package you are using. I believe Comcast is at 5 devices for many of their plans before you start running into issues. ISP networks are also more congested with many people staying at home.

> >

> > Then it could be an issue with the servers. An example occurring several months ago when the EU experienced extreme lag immediately before their servers crashed.

> >

> > The issues that players are having with lag could be one or a combination of these. My personal experience with lag, as well as input lag, is that it’s due to my WiFi. I personally tested this several months ago. I have a PC on the first floor that was built in 2018 and connected directly to my router. I have a PC built in 2012 on the second floor that is connected to the WiFi. The older PC experiences lag when the newer one doesn’t. I can also click on a skill and it just sits there and flashers a few times before going off.

> > Other times it just doesn’t do anything.

> >

> > I’ve also noticed that sometimes I can use the hot keys and get input lag but they immediately go off when I click the skill with the mouse. This is with ground target skills primarily although I haven’t actively test it with my elite skills that sometimes don’t go off with the hot key.

>

> You are correct, however this problem would be widespread across the game rather than specific maps if it was those kinds of localised factors. It's also widespread across the EU population - even if it may not be everyone - it's still encompassing a significant number of players. When it happens on a map, map chat is filled with players asking if others are getting it and everyone is reporting "yes".

>

> Now it could be something between us and Anet, but Anet refuses to engage a dialogue there so we can't help them idetify if that is the issue. All we know is, that the issue isn't localised to the players. It is either Anet (likely given the evidence) or something in between (less likely, but possible)

>

> The other indicator is skill lag. Previously, Anet themselves has identified skill lag as an issue caused by their server. Now, I have no idea if that is the case 100% of the time, but given the widespread effect on the population, it is a safe assumption to say it is something closer to Anet as the source.

>

> Whatever the issue, it needs Anet to acknowledge it given the number of people affected and the sheer volume of reports on it. It's been a huge problem in the EU on PoF and maps like Thunderhead and Sandswept since the early Spring and just staying utterly silent and not even asking for further information is unhelpful

>

> This isn't even just a bit of lag, but whole maps barely functioning at times

This is a pretty spot on analysis.

Also thought this reddit thread is worth linking. It’s from almost two months ago but it has links to them vaguely acknowledging the issue. Granted they’re in WvW and talking about WvW lag, but the principle is likely roughly the same.

> @"Glaswen.7926" said:

> Well, if you crave to complete your Vision collection, you can just do Bjora or strikes and convert eternal ice into any kind of LW4 currency you want ^^ yea, you will spend quite a lot of karma in the process, that's a downside... but still, doing metas in LW4 maps isn't the only way to get the currency anymore.

Should be noted the server lag is present in Bjora from time to time as well, though not as frequently as Thunderhead or LS4/PoF areas

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > > > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > Just did the south meta on NA. No lag or any kind. I had everything on high settings too. I suggest adjusting your settings to something that your PC can handle and most importantly setting player model limit to the lowest setting.

> > > > >

> > > > > Edit:

> > > > >

> > > > > Just did north. It’s slightly more FPS intensive than south but still manageable. Reducing the player model limit removed any FPS issues altogether. No skill lag.

> > > > >

> > > > > I should also mention that during both of these metas, not once did I see anyone complain about lag.

> > > >

> > > > It’s an EU problem judging by the number of reports on it since April

> > >

> > > Appears to be, I've noticed an increased amount of latency issues over the last few months on EU.

> >

> > This is happening in NA as well, not just EU. It’s a game wide problem

> >

> >

>

> It’s not an NA problem if there are people unaffected.

Imagine thinking something’s not a problem just because you’re not affected by it. What a world to live in.

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > Just did the south meta on NA. No lag or any kind. I had everything on high settings too. I suggest adjusting your settings to something that your PC can handle and most importantly setting player model limit to the lowest setting.

> > >

> > > Edit:

> > >

> > > Just did north. It’s slightly more FPS intensive than south but still manageable. Reducing the player model limit removed any FPS issues altogether. No skill lag.

> > >

> > > I should also mention that during both of these metas, not once did I see anyone complain about lag.

> >

> > It’s an EU problem judging by the number of reports on it since April

>

> Appears to be, I've noticed an increased amount of latency issues over the last few months on EU.

This is happening in NA as well, not just EU. It’s a game wide problem

The only thing Kalla **objectively** sucks at is mid to large scale WvW, but that’s fine not all specs need to be good in every piece of content. In all other content she’s either *Okay or better,* even up to *Excellent* in a lot of cases. The legend is fine and adds a different, unique playstyle to the class that revenant didn’t have before. It’s not going to be universally loved, sure, but options, playstyle changes, and versatility are what elite specs are about and Renegade does provide that. The only thing Kalla, shortbow, and renegade needs really are quality of life changes and maybe some minor tweaks. The playstyle and legend don’t need to change

This isn’t just an EU issue, but an NA one as well. I’m frequently on various maps and see dozens of players complaining about massive server lag. Almost every experience I have in Thunderhead Peaks has some level of server lag at various points in my playtime. I was even in a Drakkar meta the other day that had such bad server lag that we almost failed to kill it because no one could use skills properly. This has been an ongoing issue that started out small (in PvE) 9ish months ago and has ballooned into this major issue that isn’t being addressed and only causing more frustration for the playerbase.

A casual player complaining gw2 isn’t casual enough. Is this real life?? ??

> @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > Power is fundamentally higher burst than condi, always. Your entire premise is flawed. “Burst condi” just doesn’t exist.

>

> This is actually false. Lets take into account confusion.

> This condition alone is primarily burst. You put a bunch of confusion on a player, and if they use a skill, they take massive amounts of damage. Burning, also, has very high damage compared to any other condition in the game.

> I think you need to learn your conditions.

> And power damage is direct damage. Not saying it's not overtuned, there are still some things that need to be nerfed in the power department. that post will be coming next.

Considering I’ve been playing condition builds for years, I think I know my conditions.

Yes, as you mentioned, Confusion is primarily burst, but ONLY if the person both gets hit by the confusion application AND THEN uses a skill. Additionally, confusion is primarily limited to Mesmer at this point and to a much lesser extent Thief. These are the only classes that are even close to viable with confusion being a big damage source, so if you’re fighting a condition version of these classes you can plan for that and mitigate most of their damage.

And my point is that power damage is always burstier than condis, full stop. There really is no such thing as “condi burst” because, proportionally, it still takes at least double the length of time it takes to kill someone with power (usually much longer, proportionally, mind you). When you apply the condition it takes 1second before that condi does any damage at all. Not only do you need to get hit by the application but you also need to not cleanse it for 1 second before you even take damage from it. So let’s say you get hit for 10k power damage vs 10 stacks of burning. The 10k power damage is instant; the only counterplay being dodging/blocking etc. 10 stacks burning however is avoidable in all the same ways as power damage, with an additional 1 second window to negate the damage completely. In terms of GW2’s combat flow, condi is absolutely not burst; this is not WoW or FFXIV or SWTOR. Time to kill is completely different in this game than other mmos. In GW2, **Condi takes literally double the length of time bare minimum, to kill than power damage does and that’s just a fact.** This of course doesn’t include confusion, but that has its own counterplay and as is mentioned previously is incredibly limited as to which classes have access to it.

Honestly, the biggest issue with condi is that the general playerbase doesn’t build to deal with them or understand how to fight condi classes. It’s a L2P/L2Build issue overall

Power is fundamentally higher burst than condi, always. Your entire premise is flawed. “Burst condi” just doesn’t exist.

I would rather have a third borderland, edge of the mists being useful again, and some sort of GVG mode that was built into the weekly matchups

> @"zaswer.5246" said:

> The former sevenshot might have more dmg ( i dont know) but its a fact that in actual combat you almost never got the 7 shots to hit

The new one has the same damage per shot, just slightly longer cast time. However, as you mention the old one rarely hit all unless at the perfect distance or on large/huge hitboxes. The new one reliably hits all 7 times and therefore does more damage than the old in almost every scenario

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > > > Oh noes, rev isn't able to kill people by spamming in a rapid succession anymore. Still superior, faster porting to thief and superior burst + sustain. Stop complaining.

> > >

> > > Hey that reminds me of Deadeyes, Rangers and Mesmers back when I played. Good times!

> > >

> > > Again like I said in a previous comment so much for making separate tooltips for PvE/PvP... but hey no big loss PvP side, it was always a letdown since release in 2012.

> >

> > It’s funny you’re complaining about power rev DPS in PvE, because it’s actually the strongest it’s ever been at the moment at 34k+.

>

> Source? I'm looking at snowcrows right now, and they only list two builds for power rev: Boon herald at 28k and alacrigade at 23k. Power rev isn't even listed on the benchmarks list.

> @"Scar.1793" said:

> > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > Oh noes, rev isn't able to kill people by spamming in a rapid succession anymore. Still superior, faster porting to thief and superior burst + sustain. Stop complaining.

>

> Hey that reminds me of Deadeyes, Rangers and Mesmers back when I played. Good times!

>

> Again like I said in a previous comment so much for making separate tooltips for PvE/PvP... but hey no big loss PvP side, it was always a letdown since release in 2012.

It’s funny you’re complaining about power rev DPS in PvE, because it’s actually the strongest it’s ever been at the moment at 34k+.

> @"Cheshire King.6970" said:

> I need someone to look thought on the builds I made for my character. I will be doing mostly PvE stuff in case you asked. I will also tell you a bit about the characters I like to think up for them, and I do need help thinking of names for them.

> Born blind or somthing an accident case her blindness, she hated not being able to do anything because of it and tryst to get her eyes to fix. It seems hopeless until she started to hear voices. Realizing this where the legends, she begins to learn the Revenant's ways and uses them as her eye to sly foes as part of the Order of Whispers. I need help to decide which college she would go to and what her first invitation should be.

> What I would like to do is play her like a rogue class that wears heavy armor using the Assassins and Demond legends as a standard [Revenant ](http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PmEBwylflhQMsIyjJRdMIijBSkMBigD1k6yF-zRIYb8XCWPA-e)or [Renegade](http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?Pm0AUlflhQMsIyjJRdMIijBSkMBigju0/zA-zRRYWBzG1vyoxUN3qytB-e).

Depending on how optimal you want to be, your Mallyx/Shiro build *is actually really close to one of the two variations of the meta build for Condi Renegade.* You would just need different gear setups. Tbh, neither of your gear setups are particularly optimal and will ultimately hold you back, even in open world (especially the Carrion setup you've got on the non-renegade build). If you're set on doing condi damage, then definitely try to get a full viper gear setup. *Grieving gear is okay at best in PvE* since you do lose out on a lot of damage since most attempts at "hybrid" damage in this game don't work well due to a bunch of various factors; really you'll want to choose either Power or Condi and go from there. With a full Viper setup you'd do best with Nightmare runes (meta, highest optimal damage) or Torment runes (for massive sustain, not meta but really good if you're having trouble surviving) or even Traveler runes (extra movement speed). Also Charged Mists is absolutely better than Roiling Mists for any Renegade build since Renegade gets 33% extra crit while it's endurance bar is full and the extra 25 energy is a godsend once you learn how to proc it reliably. You also don't really need to crit as much as a condi build since almost all your damage comes from condi application instead of % increase crit damage. Also for open world I'd recommend Vindication for the grandmaster renegade trait as it's an amazing source of constant might generation. Lasting Legacy is better in group play, though, when other players are providing your 25 stacks of might.

If you want to crossreference your build with the current Mallyx/Shiro meta build, you can check it out here: https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/renegade/condition/

If you're planning on mostly doing open world, there are some trait tweaks (or rune tweaks) you can make that will make your open world experience better, such as my suggestions above (i.e. Vindication over Lasting Legacy, or Incensed Response over Spirit Boon).

Hell no. New sevenshot is amazing. You can pull 5 foes together with Unyielding Anguish and then immediately use Sevenshot and apply 7 stacks of torment to all of them. That's so much better than the previous incarnation which could only apply 7 to MAYBE 1 foe if you didn't mess it up or they didn't move suddenly.

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> Agreed, this is just an awkward and annoying change by someone who probably has minimal experience playing Rev. Would much rather them hit draconic echo or malyx true nature.

Oh don’t worry they’ll probably hit those 4 months from now in the next balance patch while leaving this dumb change in ?

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> > Phase Traversal: This skill now performs a pathing check before activation.

>

> Is it christmas already?

> /E: Apparently this does not mean that Rev can't teleport through half the map terrain without LOS for an unblockable quickness burst anymore, but rather that the skill won't trigger a CD if it can't somehow find a "path", so big F.

>

You realize rev isn’t the only class that can go through walls without LOS, right? I hope you’re as zealous about removing teleports through walls for all classes that can do it and not just revenant, since if it’s a “broken mechanic” then it should be removed for all classes. But the truth is it’s not a broken mechanic and it’s really just a L2P awareness issue so shouldn’t be removed

No, no, and no

It’s not like power revenant is underperforming so greatly you can’t play it. Power Ren benches 34k sustain on golem, which is still better than power Reaper by 3k and close to on par with a few low end power specs.

Problem for Power Rev is that a lot of its damage is lifesteal so won’t show up properly on ArcDPS (so you look like you’re doing less damage than you are) and additionally lacks strong burst after an enemy falls below 80% (loses the 25% damage modifier). What it needs is not necessarily another weapon, but some way to build a burst rotation into its gameplay. Thief largely has the same issue due to their similar mechanics, since both rev and thief are more “sustain” power damage instead of burst, meaning they’re competing in some weird hybrid zone between true burst power dps and sustain condi dps. If it got another Legend with strong power damage skill options, plus maybe another strong profession skill for power damage (like citadel bombardment) then it could have more of a burst rotation. Glint could theoretically fill part of this gap if both Elemental Blast, Burst of Strength, and Chaotic Release were massively buffed and Kalla does fill some of this void as well with Icerazor and Citadel Bombardment.

Another issue is the powercreep across the board for most classes is pretty crazy. When many dps now can hit 37-40k With power builds there’s an issue. A 34k power rev would’ve been fine awhile ago, when only select classes at certain times (like elementalist) could reach those numbers. High dps like that was never as widespread as it is now. This is most likely due to the fact that significant PvE patches are low priority for Anet now that they’ve pretty much abandoned Raids.

> @"Healix.5819" said:

> The servers, old and new, have always lagged during events with high concentrations of active players. Tequatl at reset (NA) in the #1 map will always lag while everyone is spamming skills for example, but outside of that, not so much. Server lag will affect the entire instance and everyone in it.

>

> If going back to NCSoft was an option (they closed their datacenter), it'd only be worse. The problem isn't the servers themselves, it's the software side / how they're using them.

I wouldn’t say they’ve always lagged; at least not for everyone. I didn’t have these issues in PvE at all until about a year ago (and have been playing the game since near launch.

But to everyone saying it doesn’t exist, well it definitely does for a ton of people. And it’s only getting worse. Not to mention how awful it is on the LS4 maps right now even with few people on the map for seemingly no reason

> @"Blackarps.1974" said:

> > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > @"Blackarps.1974" said:

> > > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > > > @"Blackarps.1974" said:

> > > > > I wanted to test a condi build last week and yeah, they are pretty terrible. Traits and shortbow are just okay with nothing too special about them. Citadel Bombardment feel weak against anyone on the move/not downed. Orders from Above and Heroic Command are fantastic. A lot of might and alacrity from them which kind of make Kalla/Renegade worth using alone. Then you get to the utilities. Just terrible in nearly every instance for WvW.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm not even sure what to propose to make them viable. Make them all 10 targets, have them function as wells, or add some kind of extra condis/damage to each that aren't overused for other classes. Maybe have Darkrazor's Daring give alacrity, Icerazor to chill instead of cripple, and give Razorclaw, taunt. All this while lowering the torment application for condi rev via mace/axe would be decent in theory.

> > > > >

> > > > > Either way, they need to be buffed to at least be usable in WvW. Immune to damage and stuns would be a good start.

> > > >

> > > > They’re quite strong in PvE and arguably too strong in pvp, though. Not everything needs to be good in all 3 game modes (and quite frankly can’t really be from a design standpoint since each game mode requires really specific things in order for a skill to be “good” for that mode).

> > >

> > > I agree that everything doesn't need to be good for every game mode but that doesn't mean it should be completely useless either, that's just how balance works. The more options we have, the healthier the balance. I'm also suggesting they be improved for WvW specifically. They are good elsewhere but need adjustment when it comes to player caps which is affected most in WvW.

> >

> > The problem is that increasing the cap to 10 is a functionality change and therefore will affect PvE as well. They can’t (or at least haven’t for anything else so I will assume can’t/refuse to) change the target cap unless it affects all modes. They’ve said previously that they can split skills (numbers, etc) but can’t/won’t split functionality (target cap, what a skill does, etc.)

> >

> > Your other suggestion is to make the spirits invuln/immune to CC so they can be useful against zergs, but that also has the same issue as the above; it’s a functionality change and therefore would need to happen for all modes.

> >

> > Lastly, let’s look at how good the skills are for WvW zergs in general (even assuming 10man + invulnerable spirits and assuming the current push meta)

> >

> > 1) Breakrazor: is okay, while providing 50% condi reduction is nice and passive healing for 10s, with how mobile WvW is it easily gets eclipsed by any sort of mobile support (I.e scrapper, FB). Also with how many fast cleanses exist in an organized Zerg the 50% damage reduction from condis really doesn’t do anything.

> >

> > 2) Razorclaw: extra bleeding stacks. Not useful at all against any sort of organized group, the extra damage is minuscule and will get immediately cleansed anyway. And again the radius, even though a huge 360, is still too small to really benefit allies in mobile WvW.

> >

> > 3) Darkrazor: easily the best spirit for WvW assuming it had invulnerability (and even better if 10 man), but still outclassed by things like Scourge Shades. Definitely useful against enemies without stab, but as long as they have Stab it’s just a 6 pulse stab stripper (still good). Would be most useful with coordinated corrupts/boon strips. Darkrazor being good doesn’t make up for the rest of the kit being bad for WvW though.

> >

> > 4) Icerazor: kitten tier damage spirit for WvW Zerg play, even with the above buffs. Single target random focus means it has no real pressure against big groups. It has projectiles which get destroyed by any semi-organized group so it can’t even do its damage. The condis aren’t even that useful since, again, single target and mass cleanses exist in zergs. As bad as Razorclaw for Zerg play imo. Would need a complete rework to be useful or have some sort of unblockable ricochet or splinter mechanic.

> >

> > 5) Soulcleave: theoretically could be pretty useful if you can place it right and with the right timing for coordinated attacks. However, feels like it might be a “win more” button to me than actually useful and still has the same issues that all the other support spirits do; WvW is mobile and people need to stand in them. Its cast time exacerbates this issue even further since by the time it finally activates the Zerg is already passing through it.

> >

> > While I understand and appreciate that you want them to be better for WvW, it’s just important to remember that 1) functionality changes have to affect all modes so things like increasing target caps can’t be done without careful considerations and perhaps even more importantly 2) most of the skills themselves, even if super buffed, don’t really lend themselves towards being useful in a highly mobile, WvW Zerg environment.

>

> The problem with every one of your points though is that they die instantly. Yeah, it sounds good on paper but in actual situations, they don't work. You don't get any buffs from them in WvW. I've been trying to use them for weeks now and there are only two times they don't die instantly. One is when you are just zerging down a lord and the other is small group fights. As for the latter, they are still exceptionally weak as its very easy to kill or avoid.

I think you misread my individual points about each skill. If you read closely I was giving analysis based on the idea that each spirit was both 10 man and Invulnerable. And I was definitely not saying that any of them sounded good on paper (except maybe Darkrazor, but *only* assuming invulnerability). The problem with the spirits isn’t even that they die or get CC’d it’s also that they are terrible for mobile Zerg fights in general due to needing to stand in them to get benefits. Or in icerazor’s case being single target and projectile based.

> @"Blackarps.1974" said:

> > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > @"Blackarps.1974" said:

> > > I wanted to test a condi build last week and yeah, they are pretty terrible. Traits and shortbow are just okay with nothing too special about them. Citadel Bombardment feel weak against anyone on the move/not downed. Orders from Above and Heroic Command are fantastic. A lot of might and alacrity from them which kind of make Kalla/Renegade worth using alone. Then you get to the utilities. Just terrible in nearly every instance for WvW.

> > >

> > > I'm not even sure what to propose to make them viable. Make them all 10 targets, have them function as wells, or add some kind of extra condis/damage to each that aren't overused for other classes. Maybe have Darkrazor's Daring give alacrity, Icerazor to chill instead of cripple, and give Razorclaw, taunt. All this while lowering the torment application for condi rev via mace/axe would be decent in theory.

> > >

> > > Either way, they need to be buffed to at least be usable in WvW. Immune to damage and stuns would be a good start.

> >

> > They’re quite strong in PvE and arguably too strong in pvp, though. Not everything needs to be good in all 3 game modes (and quite frankly can’t really be from a design standpoint since each game mode requires really specific things in order for a skill to be “good” for that mode).

>

> I agree that everything doesn't need to be good for every game mode but that doesn't mean it should be completely useless either, that's just how balance works. The more options we have, the healthier the balance. I'm also suggesting they be improved for WvW specifically. They are good elsewhere but need adjustment when it comes to player caps which is affected most in WvW.

The problem is that increasing the cap to 10 is a functionality change and therefore will affect PvE as well. They can’t (or at least haven’t for anything else so I will assume can’t/refuse to) change the target cap unless it affects all modes. They’ve said previously that they can split skills (numbers, etc) but can’t/won’t split functionality (target cap, what a skill does, etc.)

Your other suggestion is to make the spirits invuln/immune to CC so they can be useful against zergs, but that also has the same issue as the above; it’s a functionality change and therefore would need to happen for all modes.

Lastly, let’s look at how good the skills are for WvW zergs in general (even assuming 10man + invulnerable spirits and assuming the current push meta)

1) Breakrazor: is okay, while providing 50% condi reduction is nice and passive healing for 10s, with how mobile WvW is it easily gets eclipsed by any sort of mobile support (I.e scrapper, FB). Also with how many fast cleanses exist in an organized Zerg the 50% damage reduction from condis really doesn’t do anything.

2) Razorclaw: extra bleeding stacks. Not useful at all against any sort of organized group, the extra damage is minuscule and will get immediately cleansed anyway. And again the radius, even though a huge 360, is still too small to really benefit allies in mobile WvW.

3) Darkrazor: easily the best spirit for WvW assuming it had invulnerability (and even better if 10 man), but still outclassed by things like Scourge Shades. Definitely useful against enemies without stab, but as long as they have Stab it’s just a 6 pulse stab stripper (still good). Would be most useful with coordinated corrupts/boon strips. Darkrazor being good doesn’t make up for the rest of the kit being bad for WvW though.

4) Icerazor: shit tier damage spirit for WvW Zerg play, even with the above buffs. Single target random focus means it has no real pressure against big groups. It has projectiles which get destroyed by any semi-organized group so it can’t even do its damage. The condis aren’t even that useful since, again, single target and mass cleanses exist in zergs. As bad as Razorclaw for Zerg play imo. Would need a complete rework to be useful or have some sort of unblockable ricochet or splinter mechanic.

5) Soulcleave: theoretically could be pretty useful if you can place it right and with the right timing for coordinated attacks. However, feels like it might be a “win more” button to me than actually useful and still has the same issues that all the other support spirits do; WvW is mobile and people need to stand in them. Its cast time exacerbates this issue even further since by the time it finally activates the Zerg is already passing through it.

While I understand and appreciate that you want them to be better for WvW, it’s just important to remember that 1) functionality changes have to affect all modes so things like increasing target caps can’t be done without careful considerations and perhaps even more importantly 2) most of the skills themselves, even if super buffed, don’t really lend themselves towards being useful in a highly mobile, WvW Zerg environment.

> @"hobotnicax.7918" said:

> > @"ASP.8093" said:

> > > @"hobotnicax.7918" said:

> > > Are you sure about that? Blocks, invuls, basic dodge, reflects, blinds all hard counter power damage. Not even gonna go into protection.

> >

> > Everything on your list except Protection also counters most sources of condition damage. Because condition damage still comes from *attacks hitting you.*

> >

> >

>

> Yes, but once conditions are on you, blocks, invuls etc do jack sh it, one is left with either cleanse or resistance.

>

Invulns block all damage, including conditions that are already on you as well

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability