draxynnic.3719

> @"Carlin Sanders.3587" said:

> that's funny since i made this exact same comment years ago. I kind of foresee the commander eventually becoming an actual larger-than-life Dragon Champion later on in the future - perhaps when they reach the end of their natural lifespan Aurene uses her magic to 'return' the commander as an actual Branded Champion to stand watch over tyria or something.

>

> I imagine since her energy domain seems to be Light (since she's, you know, bright as fudge as an ED) we would be some sort of laser beam shooting giant.

I think that's a crystal thing, possibly through the prism of adding some of the other magic she's absorbed and her interpretation of how she wants to present herself, rather than having Light as her energy _per se_.

It is interesting to note that she shot up into the stars afterwards - which could be indicating some similarity with the celestial dragon from the original Dragon Festival.

> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > Kralkatorrik wrecked the afterlives and the things that existed directly in the Mists. But the Mists is still there in its protomatter form. Revenants merely channeled The Mists to create echoes.

> > >

> > > So long as the Mists exists, the revenants should be able to use their power. Of course, if the Mists didn't exist, neither would anything else.

> >

> > To expand on this, the power of revenants comes from echoes of significant figures within the Mists. As long as those echoes remain, revenants are likely to be fine whatever happens to the rest of the Mists, as long as their specific power sources remain intact.

> >

> > If Glint's spirit had been consumed, though, heralds _might_ be in trouble (it's not clear whether they're drawing from Glint's spirit directly or whether there's a separate echo that they're drawing from).

>

> pretty sure anet said separate echoes.

Certainly, the presence of an echo isn't necessarily linked to the original legendary character's spirit, but I'm not sure that they've ruled out that a spirit _could_ be the focus of an echo, or that the continued presence of the original spirit in the Mists could augment an echo.

It's an interesting question.

Personally, I wouldn't put too much stock in the Path of Fire elite specialisations being linked to Elona. All of them are, apart from Renegede, so it's not really a strong indicator of anything except that both professions are present in Elona, or at least the Crystal Desert.

Mesmers seem to be fairly present in both regions. Vabbi has its historical connection with Lyssa, albeit having been somewhat washed out now by Joko's oppression. However, what we see of Orr seems to indicate a strong presence there - a lot of important persons in Orr appear to have been mesmers, and Lyssa's cathedral is one of the larger cathedrals in Arah.

Guardians, by contrast, didn't exist as we know them when Orr sank (Risen Putrifiers have Guardian-like skills, but it's hard to say whether that's indicative of anything, while mesmers are clearly present among the Risen). There are also links between the Guardian and Elona: Sea of Sorrows has the "a bundle of Elonian protective magic" line, and a sadly lost interview on the Guardian when it was stated was that it started off as a meeting of minds between Paragon refugees coming from Elona and Monks that were fed up of being everyone's focus target and wanted to develop additional martial skills.

So, given that guardians postdated the fall of Orr, and we know that they're connected to Elona, that probably points towards making your Guardian the Elonian, while the Mesmer can be the Orrian by elimination.

Given the colour of the fear egg, it's possible that it's pointing towards mesmer magic. The subgroups of mesmer magic (domination, illusion, inspiration) are notably absent from the collection otherwise, and while mesmers don't have the fear condition directly (something I always thought was a bit of an oversight, tbh), a lot of mesmer magic is themed around instilling emotions in the target that causes them to hesitate.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> Kralkatorrik wrecked the afterlives and the things that existed directly in the Mists. But the Mists is still there in its protomatter form. Revenants merely channeled The Mists to create echoes.

>

> So long as the Mists exists, the revenants should be able to use their power. Of course, if the Mists didn't exist, neither would anything else.

To expand on this, the power of revenants comes from echoes of significant figures within the Mists. As long as those echoes remain, revenants are likely to be fine whatever happens to the rest of the Mists, as long as their specific power sources remain intact.

If Glint's spirit had been consumed, though, heralds _might_ be in trouble (it's not clear whether they're drawing from Glint's spirit directly or whether there's a separate echo that they're drawing from).

I'd also note that just because you got your information from a generic wiki page doesn't mean that it doesn't ultimately trace back to D&D. A lot of things that have come to be regarded as accepted fantasy convention ultimately dates back to D&D... *looks pointedly at the 'wyverns are not true dragons' idea.*

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> Khilbron, The Hunter, and Joko all show being able to be to, well, not die. In that there is no moment they seem unable to control their body. Was Joko physically broken or was he like The Hunter, who was faking it, because Khilbron never reaches that point until his soul is ripped from his body.

>

> And I do think the dazed state of the Awakened is faked, though not by them but by Joko; when Joko actually dies, the Awakened just describe it as losing their compulsion. Not "I was dazed for a moment, then the compulsion was gone". Furthermore, the two guards were dazed even while Joko was recovering.

>

> And I would say Aurene's magic was released, as we see Caithe's crystals disintigrate, which is a catch method for Anet to go "life/magic is gone", like with the Eye of Janthir. And Caithe confirms her connection is gone with her words "She's gone...". This, to me, mirrors Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's deaths and their minions no longer hearing their Elder Dragons' voice.

>

> (EDIT: Plus, GuildChat just confirmed Aurene's a corpse, intentionally bookending the episode with Glint's corpse and Aurene's corpse)

I'm not sure that I agree with this. Joko was pretty much rendered inert by Turai Ossa, and his forces released from his control at the time. Given that Turai was right in the middle of Joko's otherwise-victorious army at the time, if Joko still had full control, he could have pulled a similar "Psyche!" move that he did to the PC in Episode 3, swarmed Turai with his minions, and at the very least protected himself until he could get back up again.

Instead, he got sealed for a couple of centuries by the Order of Whispers. They knew he wasn't permanently dead, but he was _certainly_ in a state where he could neither control his minions or fight back personally.

This suggests to me that Joko's preservation magic does allow for a 'dead' or at least 'inert' state, from which he can recover. In Ep3, he might have been faking, or he might have improved it since the Battle of Jahai so that he had a faster recovery. But I don't think anything we see disproves the possibility of Aurene having a Joko-style resurrection, especially considering that she doesn't have the experience with it that Joko does.

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > @"Castigator.3470" said:

> > > @"Grimmtooth.4163" said:

> > > The Faolain Shower Thought Theory

> > Don't sylvari have plant showers, though?

> > But here's my shot into the blue: Aurene transferred the Joko resurrection magic onto the commander to keep him on Tyria. Calling it now, the Commander is now a lich!

>

> I dunno why people think Joko had special super res magic.. Joko was a lich.

> All lich's appear immortal.. although they're just powerful Necromancers who either through their own will or an event beyond their control have bound their souls to a phylactery.. an object or thing.. or perhaps you'd prefer the term horcrux as made popular with the Harry Potter universe as they work in the same way, Yes Lord Voldemort was technically a Lich as well ^^

> All Liches can be killed thus are not truly immortal.. typically that's done by destroying their phylactery, since nobody knows how Joko became a Lich or what his phylactery is this is why he continues to get up every time he's been bested in combat thus furthering his reputation as someone who cannot die and why he was constantly sealed away instead as it was easier than killing him.

> They can be killed through other means though.. the undead lich in Gw1 was killed on top of a bloodstone.

> Bloodstones draw in souls from those that are killed on them and the Mursaat worked out how to channel those souls into battry's and use them.

> When we killed the Lich on the bloodstone we pretty much tore his soul away from his body and sealed it in a Soul Battery ending his immortality.

>

> My guess is that Joko's phylactery is the golden ring he keeps in his mouth (the one thing he has had in both games btw as the rest of his design has changed), If you watch his death cutscene you can clearly see Aurine biting down on his face causing a burst of light.. likely the result of that ring breaking and releasing his soul and the player is unable to get a close up of his corpse afterwards to confirm this removing the need for his model to be altered.

> Due to containing a soul a liches phylactery is often a significantly powerful magical object.. and it's been established from as far back as the personal story that Dragons are attracted to magical artifacts and can sense them.. my guess is Aurine could feel the magic from that ring and knew it's importance because of it.

> And even if she didn't know it's significance and was simply seeking to nom that yummy magic it still would have been the most appealing thing to go for if that was indeed his phylactery.

>

> Joko was never truly immortal.. he's always been killable it's just that nobody has managed to pull it off until now.

> Joko was also notorious for fabricating stories and fictions about himself so it is without doubt that tales of his immortality were grossly exaggerated.. likely through his will to make people fear him and believe his bullkitten as the honest truth.

>

You're thinking of D&D liches. As far as I know, nowhere in Guild Wars lore has it ever been indicated that lich immortality came through use of a phylactery, horcrux, or similar form of soul repository.

> @"Poormany.4507" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > Last time he was harmed by Destiny's Edge he went to sleep for a while again. We dealt a MASSIVE blow to him and he hurried away after blowing us out. He is most likely sleeping again to recover. Next episodes will see us deal with the aftermath and seeing "oh, he went to sleep again because we dealt so much damage".

>

> Really don't think he just went to sleep again since last time he did not have instant access to massive amounts of magic in the Mists like he now does, especially with all the resistance in the Mists now defeated. I think it wouldn't take him that much time and effort to heal right back to where he was before this battle.

Depends on what shape he's in to keep fighting. Glint's army was put on the proverbial back foot, but if Kralkatorrik is sufficiently wounded and the Branded took enough losses, the balance of power might have shifted back and he no longer has free reign in the Mists.

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

>

> Ranged is difficult to do with even heavy armored classes able to teleport and stealth cut back strongly.

That's part of my point. In PvP, distances get closed so quickly that you're pretty much always in melee anyway if you have an enemy who wants to get you. In high-end PvE, the meta is usually stackingon the bad guy and outputting as much DPS as possible.

Core mesmer is still fairly range-focused. Three out of four weapons are ranged (900, 1200, and 1200 in fact), with greatsword auto encouraging a long range. The new weapons from elite specialisations are more melee-oriented, but shield fits the more defensive/supportive nature of chronomancers, and a melee condition weapon is something that mesmer players have been asking for for a while. The problem is bigger than the mesmer: it's not that mesmers have been made into a melee profession (they have melee options, but _everybody_ does), it's that the current meta is unfriendly for ranged weapons for almost _everyone._

The concept art with a dueling saber shows that it was always something that ArenaNet had in mind, even if it wasn't really implemented (outside of one elite) until now. Now, that playstyle is present. The old playstyle is also still present, as much as reasonably practical given GW2 mechanics, in other weapon sets and the right choices of utilities. It's just that the melee options are largely what the current meta demands.

> @"Cristalyan.5728" said:

> 2. The magic can be activated by members of the Blades: "You will have special freedoms, so long as you're not working against Kryta". Taking into account that "**working against Kryta**" is very subjective and in one's opinion you can be a criminal of the Krytans while for the others you can be a true hero (see Queen Jenna's in the Head of the Snake - some ministers accused her of despotism - even some non enemy ministers - others considered the actions as being the right thing). WHO or WHAT decides when you act against Kryta? The magic? I doubt it. That means that **a person** decides if you are an enemy or not. This is the reason of: "You will be an agent at large. **You will have special freedoms, so long as you're not working against Kryta.**"

This logic... doesn't necessarily hold.

As an example, I've come across [a case](http://egscomics.com/comic/2016-08-12 "a case") where magic was enforcing a particular set of restrictions, but there was no external entity who determined whether the restrictions were broken. Instead, the magic triggered if and only if the transgressor _believed that they were breaking the restrictions._

So the oath might work in a similar manner. The magic might be bound into the oathtaker's mind and emotions (which might explain the trials: the trials serve as a form of "calibration" so that the magic can operate properly) and the trigger for the oath might be when the oathtaker _believes_ that they are breaking the oath.

Such a mechanism would allow agents a fairly wide range of freedom - even to work against one another if each genuinely believes they're doing the right thing (although it also reduces the chance of that happening, since Shining Blade agents will know that if another agent seems to be opposing them they will have their reasons that aren't related to betraying Kryta, and thus may be more inclined to talk it out).

If that _is_ the way it works, the only problem with taking the oath is if you believe you might need to turn against Kryta at some stage. That's mostly a problem with charr, and even then, the following considerations apply:

1) It's pretty clear at this point that the charr PC is supposed to support the truce and be hoping that it develops into a permanent agreement. In the charr PC's mind, the oath isn't swearing to an enemy, it's a necessary part of information sharing with a significant (potential) ally.

2) There may be means through which knowledge of Shining Blade secrets can benefit the legions without breaking the oath. An Ash Legion charr PC, for instance, might be the only individual that both the Krytan and charr intelligence services are willing to grant top-level clearance to, which might allow the PC to offer advice of a "I can't tell you why, but you should do X instead of Y" nature, as long as such advice would not involve betraying either side.

3) PCs of all races are, to a degree, all indicated to be at a point where they're largely focused on more important things than local politics. If a new charr-human war broke out, the PC would probably be inclined to either a) try to end the conflict as soon as possible with as little damage to either side as possible, which probably would not count as a breach of the oath, or b) stay out of it entirely and focus on other problems that represent a threat to both sides.

4) Even in the case of a war, the Imperators might actually find it useful to have someone who is magically bound not to work against Kryta and who is known by the Krytans for that to be the case, as it presents an avenue for communication that the other side won't immediately regret. Smodur performed this role in Ghosts of Ascalon - a charr PC who's undertaken the oath might be able to do the same in the case of a renewal of hostilities.

One of the oldest pieces of mesmer concept art out there [had a sword](https://wiki.guildwars.com/images/f/f8/Mesmer_render.jpg "had a sword"). The 'duellist' or 'flashy thief' imagery dates back to before the release of Prophecies, when assassin, let alone thief, hadn't even been considered. GW1 game mechanics and skill design didn't hold that up, but it was always in ArenaNet's mind.

The present situation is essentially one of ranged versus melee balance. Melee weapons generally have better capabilities in terms of damage, defence, CC, and other utility than ranged weapons, to compensate for the lack of range. The state of the meta in much of the game at the moment is one where the range often isn't really useful, and as a result most professions are increasingly drifting towards melee-heavy or even melee-only builds. It's not that ArenaNet has shifted the mesmer's focus heavily towards melee so much as it is that melee is what people want nowadays.

> @"Lucas.3718" said:

> I wouldnt say every profession. imo engineer is still the only profession that doesnt use magic. scrapper was more about electricity and robotics, and Holosmiths... well its in the name, they utilize the light to create weapons and objects. they dont use the light as a magical source but more a physical/photonical force, and creating things out of mere light seems impossible but it accually is. there was a study ive heard about where they managed to move an object with pure light.

>

Actually, it's explicitly stated that the holoforge is powered by magic:

[Those magic crystals of theirs (the Zephyrites) are a key component in our photon forge. It's a good thing they've been so willing to trade with us!](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Baraz_Sharifi "Those magic crystals of theirs (the Zephyrites) are a key component in our photon forge. It's a good thing they've been so willing to trade with us!")

Engineers are distinct in that they don't use magic directly to cast spells or empower themselves, but magic is so widespread that it's often present in the components they use for their inventions. In addition to the above, for instance, elixirs are often infused with magic - it's just that the magic is inherent in the ingredients rather than from the engineer enchanting the brew.

> @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

> > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > > @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

> > > 1. THIEF IS NOT MAGICIAN!!!! I dont really know how much longer will i have to repeat it to everyone

> >

> > To put it bluntly: Yes, they are. There are a lot of things in the thief's skillset that are hard to explain without magic. All that teleportation, for a start, is not something you do without some supernatural capabilities, and thief/assassin always had a bit of a 'dabbles in the mesmer skillset' feel to it. Thief is more along the lines of a D&D paladin or ranger in that the magic _supports_ their skill at martial weapons rather than being their main defining element, and depending on your build you can downplay the magic element, but it is definitely there.

> >

> > Elite specialisations that expand on this aspect are entirely reasonable.

>

> i have explained it above why it is the way it is. it is game mechanics that are supposed to substitute for the lack of possibilities in game. Thief could just run around and hide in bushes but that would make it extremely hard to play so they speeded it up by shadowsteping steal stealth ETC as i said i dunno three times above and all of you ignored it. i am not going to argue about this further anyone who wants to believe Thief is magician can do it i dont give a kitten anymore. i know that theif will never become shadow mage or what was that thing this op suggested and you will be disapointed when you will figure out it wont so have a nice day

It was a plot point back in the Factions background that shadowstepping was genuine, albeit short-range, teleportation rather than simply being a game mechanic.

> @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

> 1. THIEF IS NOT MAGICIAN!!!! I dont really know how much longer will i have to repeat it to everyone

To put it bluntly: Yes, they are. There are a lot of things in the thief's skillset that are hard to explain without magic. All that teleportation, for a start, is not something you do without some supernatural capabilities, and thief/assassin always had a bit of a 'dabbles in the mesmer skillset' feel to it. Thief is more along the lines of a D&D paladin or ranger in that the magic _supports_ their skill at martial weapons rather than being their main defining element, and depending on your build you can downplay the magic element, but it is definitely there.

Elite specialisations that expand on this aspect are entirely reasonable.

> @"Ovark.2514" said:

> Also, Anet nerfed the core mechanic in the map to be as un-fun as possible in the name of 'balance' even though different classes have different armor and vitality by default.

Honestly, ArenaNet forgetting that different professions have different base stats is a theme throughout the game. Pretty much every time a story step or something expects me to use a special weapon for that instance, there's a part of me groaning inside: elementalist gives up health and armour in exchange for attunements and the benefits of their weapon skills, but when they're not using their weapon skills, they're getting nothing in return for those sacrifices.

The blinding effect, honestly, does feel like something Arenanet thought of post-Nightfall.

However, it is possible that somewhere between Malchor and Nightfall, the gods found a way to prevent the blinding effect, or at least slow it down enough to be able to fight Abaddon with out it being a factor. - and that's what the blessing they bestowed on the GW1 heroes was for. The effect also seems to be gradual: Malchor was able to keep his sight long enough to sculpt the gods, for instance, although he was never satisfied with Dwayna's, while the dimming of our vision while talking to Kormir isn't enough to actually stop us from seeing the illusions she uses to tell her story. The battle with Abaddon may have simply been too brief for it to be a major factor (and the region you fight that battle in _is_ pretty dark, so maybe that actually _was_ ArenaNet trying to show 'your vision is dimming but not enough to justify a 90% miss chance').

> @"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > Episode 4 seemed to show there was no real effect on Aurene from eating Joko.

> >

> > It's just another thing that Anet added to add drama for 0.5 seconds.

>

> well I'll play devil's advocate in here but none of NPCs seemed to care about animation that springed whole "did eating joko hurt aurene" theories in the first place.... heck the animation of blast itself was easy to miss and if you did miss it it seemed basically like a cat taking a nap after big breakfast. while I am unsure what was point of the energy discharge in there, I'd risk saying that "0.5 second drama" was player made ;)

Or it was purely a case of "indigestion after a less than entirely palatable meal". Even if the magic was nutritious for Aurene's Elder-Dragon-in-potentia side, a centuries-old lich probably wasn't too pleasant on her biological stomach and taste buds (which she apparently has from her taste in fish). A few hours of nausea from eating something completely disgusting seems entirely to be expected.

> @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> drax mentioned it already, but I suspect the fate of the Riverlands boils down to how dependent the rest of Elona's food supply is on those towns right now. If the whole of Istan has suffered the same environmental degradation as we've seen around Palawadan, even the island might not be self-sufficient any longer. If that's the case, the banks of the Elon may represent the only sufficiently fertile land remaining within Elona's reach.

It's interesting to note that the areas that were green in GW1 are dry in GW2, and vice versa...

That said, the primary food-producing areas in GW1 Istan seemed to be the village in the northwest of Zehlon Reach, and the Issnur Isles. So what we've seen isn't really indicative of the area's current fertility. Odds are it can still only produce enough to feed itself, though.

At the very least, we know that not only is it possible to shove a spirit into a construct against their will, the mursaat/White Mantle have had the ability to do so. So for the oath to _really_ work, it'd have to do something to prevent posthumous interrogation.

I'm inclined to agree with making the projectile faster, giving it a larger area of effect, and possibly having it providing its effect to allies it passes through (this would allow allies to react to it). Possibly make it heal the user when it comes back as well.

I have to agree that it does seem like a downgrade.

The old form of Nature's Release had the advantage that it was useful at times when the base Facet of Nature wasn't. Extending boons isn't useful? Well, at least you can double-tap it to get a pile of boons _right now!_

Most of the other True Nature abilities have the advantage of doing something different to simply maintaining the facet. Shiro flips from lifestealing to boonstrip, Jalis from damage reduction to stability, and Ventari from healing to condition removal. The exception is Mallyx, whose Facet of Nature/True Nature works similar to a necromancer's Plague Signet.

Dragon Nature, on the other hand, is purely about boon extension, with its True Nature only really being useful over continuing to run the facet as a means of saving energy or in those situations where a couple of extra seconds on existing boons does balance against the concentration increase.

I've been using the [Reclaimed Staff](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reclaimed_Staff "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reclaimed_Staff") - sure, it looks a bit improvised, but the blades are positioned fairly appropriately for the daredevil animations. The [Forged Staff](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forged_Staff "Forged Staff") could also work, although some parts of the blade are blunter than you'd think.

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> no, not lower. Different.

Essentially, this. Asura technology relies on magic, which means that they can achieve some things that are futuristic from our perspective, but where the technology is actually relatively primitive... they're just skipping over things that are hard to do with pure technology by using magic instead.

A functional space rocket would probably require charr-asura collaboration. Heck, charr-human collaboration might not even need the asura (although they would probably still benefit from an asura contribution).

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> As far as resurrection magic counterargument goes, the penalty for revealing information about the order is death. If members who violated the oath could easily be resurrected, it defeats that penalty.

From discussion with the exemplars afterwards, however, it seems to be regarded almost as much as a precaution than a penalty per se. Sure, it _is_ a punishment to anyone who tries to spill freely, but it also means that information cannot be extracted through torture or similar means.

Again, you're pretty much demonstrating my point?

Rev hammer is strong in large-scale fights, where the revs can be screened and supported by allies, and where a series of CoR attacks can spike multiple targets at once (with a large area of effect, so this can happen just through multiple revs CoRing in the same general direction at once). It's attracted a lot of nerfs in order to reign it in a bit when under these conditions.

It's all but useless in small-scale fights, partially as a result of those nerfs (it was seeing some play in sPvP until the nerfbat hits started landing). Which is why it finally got a split in WvW. Right now, the _only_ place where people see revenant hammer as being a useful weapon at all is in large scale WvW and in PvE situations where you absolutely _have_ to go ranged and aren't running renegade.

Which means that adjustments that don't substantially affect it in large-scale fights but which can make it stronger at smaller scales or in PvE would be quite appropriate. Bleeds fit into this category, since in large-scale combat it's likely that the bleeds will get removed before they can stack up much, but in smaller-scale combat or against PvE enemies they have more chance to do something.