draxynnic.3719

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > One thing that's been bouncing around in my mind is... we've seen some cases of what happens to minions when a dragon is killed (the Unchained, and while a special case, there was an ex-Mordrem Guard sylvari at the Bazaar of the Four Winds not too long ago), but not when they're replaced. It could be that if Aurene was to take over Kralkatorrik's role, she'd also gain control of the Branded. Of course, the maps would remain frozen in time, but it could lead to having Branded allies in the future, as well as raising the question of how society reacts to Branded attempting to reintegrate.

> Hmm, I don't know if that would work in the Branded's case. Both the Risen and the Mordrem displayed intelligence even before their masters were killed. The Branded on the other hand, with the exception of a few top bosses, have displayed zero ability to speak or reason. I'm not sure if there is enough left of the Branded's original self to have a possible reintegration story line we got with the Awakened.

That was pretty much the case with the Risen as well, and with non-sylvari Mordrem (the Mordrem Guard were always a special case, since they weren't minionised so much as mind-controlled).

According to what I recall of ArenaNet's explanations, when something becomes a dragon minion, the Elder Dragon claims their magic, and then re-invests some of it back into the minion. Mindless drones require relatively little magic while still being reasonably effective soldiers when properly led (or programmed), so that's what the majority of minions are, and making a minion physically larger while still only requiring a single animating force is probably more efficient still (which explains Abominations and their ilk). Minions with the potential to be leaders are allowed to keep their original intelligence in service to the dragon, and in some cases, are supplied with additional magic to make them more powerful. So a typical dragon minion army is a horde of drones with a few powerful champions.

So if Aurene replaced Kralkatorrik, and claimed the Branded in turn, she could probably re-invest enough magic back into those Branded that were formerly sapient beings in order to restore their intelligence and personality. In fact, her doing so could be killing two birds with one stone from a narrative perspective, since it would _also_ provide a justification for Aurene's personal power to be significantly less than Kralkatorrik's, since instead of hoarding as much magic as practical in herself and a few select champions, she's distributing and sharing it.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > Preventing Aurene from being dominant to the plot (obviously she's a major character, but you know what I mean) could be a matter of finding some reason for her to have to sequester herself like Glint once she's absorbed Kralkatorrik's power. There are a few possible reasons that could be given for this: it could become seen as too risky for her to put herself in danger (right now, she's important, but she's important for a purpose that requires her to engage her enemies; once she becomes the Elder Dragon, she becomes important because if she dies before magic is brought back under control, the world goes kaput), it it could turn out that Branding is something that the Elder Crystal Dragon simply _cannot avoid doing if they wanted to_, and Aurene would then need to sequester herself to avoid becoming a mobile natural disaster.

> I always presumed Aurene would go live in a cave or something once she got Kralktorrik's Elder Dragon-ness. I mean, at that point her continued existence is needed for the world to function, and, while stupidly powerful, we know Elder Dragons aren't immortal, so I doubt they would let her come with us into dangerous unknowns.

>

> I wouldn't be surprised if they mention she keeps patrolling the Brand however, killing off what remains of the Branded army or something, like how Vlaast did. That way she could be doing something, but not something too dangerous.

One thing that's been bouncing around in my mind is... we've seen some cases of what happens to minions when a dragon is killed (the Unchained, and while a special case, there was an ex-Mordrem Guard sylvari at the Bazaar of the Four Winds not too long ago), but not when they're replaced. It could be that if Aurene was to take over Kralkatorrik's role, she'd also gain control of the Branded. Of course, the maps would remain frozen in time, but it could lead to having Branded allies in the future, as well as raising the question of how society reacts to Branded attempting to reintegrate.

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > The AA third chain need to be reduced to 0.75 sec. Glacia heart ICD should be reduced to 5 secs (PvE only). Honestly, in PvE the protection has almost no value and the CC, while nice, no one uses a weapon because it has CC, but for damage. The utility value of hammer is a way over precevied. That is why no one uses it in PvE whatsoever.

> >

> > What ? Protection, Vigor and -%damage in group is the main reason people can run glass builds all the time in PvE. And no one uses it in PvE because of the annoying, spamming light field that makes all field stacking useless.

>

> Guardian is not going to use hammer to provide protection to group. There are other classes that do this much better. Plus you only add to the point with light fields.

>

> The point is the utility of hammer is not that useful for it to do the abysmal damage it currently does. No one uses it in PvE for this specific reason.

Perhaps not for group content. It can be pretty useful for soloing encounters though, with the right traits.

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > > > > @"Fipmip.7219" said:

> > > > > yeah stun could be really bad with high quickness uptime. perhaps daze would be better, or like i said confusion. I want more than just a second or two more of symbol of protection though, something to really make hammer worth keeping in hand.

> > > >

> > > > You know why there's not a single AA chain in the entire game that has a hard CC on it? Hard CC includes Stun, Daze, Fear, Taunt, Knockdown, Launch and Immobilize. (+the underwater ones)

> > >

> > > Immobilize is not a hard CC. You can cast skills when affected by it thus it is soft and not Hard CC.

> >

> > I dispute that categorization.

> > But call it what you will, in terms of severity it's more akin to a hard CC than a cripple, for example.

>

> Its even defined as only movement impairing by the games traits. Every other you mentioned count as disables thus hard cc.

Pretty sure that strictly speaking it's a soft CC according to the game mechanics.

However, this is semantics. The original point was that certain debuffs are too strong to proc automatically through autoattack chains. Immobilise is one of them - it's the strongest of the soft CCs by a considerable margin, and speaking from experience, there are times when I'd rather by hit by some hard CCs than by an Immobilise. Particularly since immobilise can't be removed through a stunbreak: you need to blow a condition cleanse, hope the cleanse doesn't get soaked up by cover conditions anyway, and hopefully not have another immobolise land on you shortly afterwards.

Immobilise and hard CC are both too strong to have on an autoattack. The persistent immobolise from the roots that rangers can summon, or the repeating immobilise from thieves, are bad enough, but at least they're costing resources.

It is something I've been wondering myself. The good guys don't seem to have any fear of taking out dragon champions, though, so one could presume that the bad guys wouldn't be opposed to taking out a champion of Aurene either, if the risk to them of not doing so is greater than the risk of doing so.

To be frank, through the nature of the game, we know the PC isn't going to (permanently) die, so there's no tension in that direction (honestly, for this reason, I'm getting _really_ tired of the "PC is disabled and somebody else breaks them out" trope that ArenaNet has grown so fond of. It's not just predictable that SOMETHING is going to break that stasis, but the last couple of times I'd gone ahead and (correctly) guessed who it was going to be the moment the paralysis was applied).

Preventing Aurene from being dominant to the plot (obviously she's a major character, but you know what I mean) could be a matter of finding some reason for her to have to sequester herself like Glint once she's absorbed Kralkatorrik's power. There are a few possible reasons that could be given for this: it could become seen as too risky for her to put herself in danger (right now, she's important, but she's important for a purpose that requires her to engage her enemies; once she becomes the Elder Dragon, she becomes important because if she dies before magic is brought back under control, the world goes kaput), it it could turn out that Branding is something that the Elder Crystal Dragon simply _cannot avoid doing if they wanted to_, and Aurene would then need to sequester herself to avoid becoming a mobile natural disaster.

That said, though, I wouldn't be surprised if the next set of elite specialisations turn out to have a "champion of the Crystal Dragon" theme, apart from professions with specialisations that could already be said to have that theme.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > Literally anything is possible now with the current plot and making predictions is fun but futile.

>

> The Kralkatorriks from Tyria B and Tyria C (the other Tyrias from the Mist War) will meet each other, and merge into one Ultralkatorrik.

>

Who then finds the Zerg and Brands them, leading to the creation of his newest champion, the Ultralkatorrik Ultralisk. However, we don't get to fight or even see the result before Jormag's lawyer shows up with litigation papers and shouts about weakness and laughing.

> @"Genesis.8572" said:

> > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > That is not a Deus ex Machina solution, especially when it's already been established as an element of the story.

> Gods are an established "reality" of the classical Hellenistic worldview and even are "characters" in Greek Dramas, or mentioned offhand in script, but the trope is nevertheless referred to as Deus ex Machina. Regardless of whether deities are pre-established elements in the story, this would constitute Deus ex Machina.

Simply introducing gods into a plot, however, is not enough to qualify as a deus ex machina. A deus ex machina is essentially when the crisis is resolved by a sudden and unexpected element which had not previously been part of the plot and often which could not have been predicted by the audience.

The subplot of the Six and the ability of divine magic to combat dragon minions at least has been running in Guild Wars 2 since the second half of Season 2. The only thing that would make it "unexpected" is that we've been given the impression that the gods were gone, gone, gone, never to return: however, the departure of the gods was under the assumption that the Elder Dragons was still a problem local to Tyria. His entering the Mists and thus potentially becoming a multiversal problem might catch their attention. We've also got another episode before the season climax (unless they pull a repeat of Season 3, where episode 5 was really the climax), which could involve looking for something that will even the balance against Kralkatorrik: chasing down the gods is as good a means as any.

It wouldn't be an unexpected surprise resolution of an otherwise unwinnable situation, but a product of an undercurrent that has been building for years.

Now, you might find that unsatisfying for _other_ reasons, and that's perfectly valid as... I guess you might call it pre-emptive criticism? But if it DOES happen, enough groundwork has been done that it wouldn't be a deus ex machina.

Just because a story has gods as part of the resolution does not make it a deus ex machina, just as a deus ex machina does not have to involve actual gods.

Okay, to work on unpicking this:

First, the ways in which the various magic types interact with one another are intentionally still mysterious. It's entirely possible that part of the reason is something that we're not supposed to know yet.

However, we did get precedent back in Season 2 that even a small amount of divine fire can be effective at warding off dragon minions, and even crippling a major dragon champion (although the dragon champion did have countermeasures against it). With this being the case, at the very least it seems that the divine fire hinders Kralkatorrik's ability to casually send minions in. It can do it, but doing so requires a fairly significant minion and possibly additional energy as well, which it might not want to keep throwing away if it's not getting results the first time - and the more established the Sanctuary becomes, the more significant of an investment is needed. It's also possible that at some level the divine fire hinders its senses: it clearly knows something interesting is there, but it might underestimate the importance of the Sanctuary.

Additionally, whatever mystical protection the fires provide is backed up by a geographical protection. In fact, the impetus to go to the Sanctuary is the observation that being sufficiently deep underground provides protection from Branding. While primarily known as the crystal dragon, Kralkatorrik is also connected with the sky and storms: it might prefer not to enter such a deep location personally, is doing so might make it vulnerable. At the very least, however, it seems that it can't casually Brand the place like it might be able to to some other strongpoint. (It's worth keeping in mind that the ancient dwarfs chose to set their fortresses deep into the earth, despite the threat of Primordus: it's possible that Kralkatorrik is part of the reason why.)

It's likely that if Kralkatorrik put its full attention against the sanctuary, the protection won't hold out... but as long as Kralkatorrik doesn't think the sanctuary is _worth_ its full attention, than its mystical and physical defences are likely enough that Kralkatorrik doesn't feel like the sanctuary is currently worth the resources that it would take. As long as Kralkatorrik feels that it has more important things to do and cannot spare the resources for an all-out attack, the sanctuary can probably remain relatively safe (note that it certainly seems likely that Kralkatorrik is still deliberately pressuring the area through the Death-Branded Shatterer and other minions, but is holding off from committing additional resources).

TL;DR: It's entirely likely that the Sanctuary couldn't withstand Kralkatorrik's full attention, but it only has to withstand the attention that Kralkatorrik is willing to give it.

> @"Pax.3548" said:

> > @"Castigator.3470" said:

> > I mean the Exalted and the Forged work on a similar theoretical model to infuse an object with the spirit of a person, but unlike an asuran golem, they cannot be turned on or off, which makes their existence less horror inducing than that of Blish, who is trapped in a dysfunctional body, once the off switch is pulled.

>

> The exalted and the forged are essentially different from golems, both are constructs, but the first two are basically infused armor-gear, while golems are construct with a "computer" like mind, basically very primitive robots. One uses souls and magic to animate the construct, the other uses technology and magic. If I were to support my theory, I would say Gorrik used the inquest technology to scan his dead brother's brain in order to, somehow, create an artificial"blish brain", which to place inside a golem. The golem thinks and feels like the real Blish, but in essence, it is simply a golem with an artificial "cloned" brain.

>

> I used very simple language here, forgive me if I can't explain my idea clearly.

Are they?

ArenaNet tends to downplay it to the point where I'm not sure if it's even canon any more, but there was information (before GW2 release, I think?) that indicated that most golems are in fact animated by nonsapient magical spirits, such as from elementals, with the golem's programming controlling what the golem does. The distinction between Inquest and regular asura is that the Inquest will do this to sapient spirits as well, while regular asura generally do not enslave sapient beings to power a golem (efforts to put an asura directly in control of a golem are usually intended to be temporary and voluntary in nature - as seen in the Dynamics arc (which goes wrong, but nevertheless) and Snaff's control relays in Edge of Destiny).

Even putting that aside...

There's no physical reason why a technological golem couldn't _also_ be a soul construct akin to an Exalted, Forged, or Shiro'ken. Unlike some settings, there's nothing to indicate any form of incompatibility between asura magitechnology and soul-based animation magic. The golem's circuitry might even enhance the final result, supporting the spirit by making control over the body easier by operating through the circuits, or even allowing automation of some actions.

It kind of depends on HOW anorganic Blish is. Is his asura brain still in there? Is his spirit still there, still able to experience time despite a lack of sensory perception?

Broadly speaking:

First, I think Gorrik's comment about saving Blish is more of a "saved him from death (by transferring his conscious into a golem)" than a "I have a backup of his personality".

Second... golems having a personality through fusing an asura's consciousness with the golem is nothing new. The initial personal story arc if you choose the College of Dynamics, for instance, is exactly this: someone gets fused into a golem, and at the end of the arc, you either unfuse them or choose to fuse their partner into another golem.

Now, in each of those cases, the organic body is still present for as long as we remain involved in their story, but the reason that the initial victim can't simply be unplugged is that her consciousness has already started mixing with the golem's programming. It's possible that there's a point at which someone's consciousness can be so fully ingrained into the golem that the organic body is no longer needed at all - and in an emergency life-or-death situation, this process can probably be accelerated. It's also possible, though, that Blish's brain was housed within the golem body somewhere (with a life support system set up so it can't be turned off without someone knowing what they're doing).

I think the more likely "going in a direction that some might find disturbing" turn is that Taimi seems to be showing a strong interest in the concept. I suspect she's considering it as a way to escape her likely terminal condition herself.

On the topic of dragon weaknesses:

My impression is that each dragon is vulnerable to its own power. Earlier in this thread, for instance, it was cited that Zhaitan's weakness was a reliance on specialised minions, but Zhaitan isn't the only Elder Dragon that has specialised minions that play a key role in its strategy. Taking out the Eyes and Mouth certainly weakened it, but I don't think that was its key weakness.

Instead, something which is unfortunately easy to miss unless you play the right parts of the personal story is that Gorr's research involved drawing power from Zhaitan's minions, altering it in some fashion to weaponise it, and firing it back at the minions. If I recall correctly, it's implied somewhere that the weaponry of the Glory of Tyria was, in part, based on Gorr's research. So the weakness that was actually used to _kill_ Zhaitan was turning its own power back on it... similar to how Mordremoth's weakness was using its own power against it (going into its mind and destroying it from within) and Kralkatorrik's is its own flesh and blood (either literally, in the case of the spear, or metaphorically, in the case of descendants).

Despite Taimi's conclusion about using Primordus and Jormag against one another, there is an indication in Edge of Destiny that Primordus might have a similar "own power is its weakness" thing:

**

> @"Alchimist.4738" said:

> We know that Kralkatorrik can travel to the mist, and Taimi says it's a unique behavior for Elder Dragons, but I thought Jormag could also travel to the mist, or at least his minions, because in the Norn personal story we travel ourself to the mist and fight the Son of Svanir and some Icebrood Elementals there.

The Sons of Svanir basically hijacked the ability of the regular norn shamans to enter the Mists. Once they no longer had control of a regular shaman prisoner to let them in, they were no longer able to - neither Jormag nor his minions gained the ability to open portals themselves.

Kralkatorrik, apparently, has: probably, as someone commented above, as a result of consuming Balthazar's magic, which did include being able to open portals.

I don't think that 'never use your final charge' is entirely true, although you're _generally_ better off refraining from doing so. The third charge _is_ more potent than the others (generally speaking, double the effect in exchange for double the time before you can do it again), and if you can use it to quickly finish a fight then the recharge doesn't matter, and if using the third charge means you're still up, having to do without the skill until you can charge it again is generally still better than being downed.

> @"Tehologist.5841" said:

> By the time I realize where they are I am already almost dead and just trying to get away. They like to camp on a ledge above the capture point. If I am fighting someone else, it is usually way too late. Regardless, I can't figure out how to decap the point they are camping. There are a few maps that have ledges that seem to be very beneficial for them. Their damage is so fast and range is crazy, plus invisibility, the only time I seem to be able to actually fight them is when they are moving points.

Yeah, part of it is probably knowing which maps have ledges that are particularly beneficial for them. Capricorn and Foefire seem to be particularly good for them, since they have ledges that are difficult to reach quickly and it's hard to block their line of sight. While all of the maps in ranked have some sort of ledge over mid at least, on most of them it's easier to either get to the DE or LOS them.

The maps where DEs have been most oppressive in my experience tend to be Capricorn, Foefire, and to a lesser extent, Coliseum (this can depend on the team, since the ledges on Coliseum are relatively easy to get to, but if nobody thinks to rush the DE, the DE can cause a lot of pain... and rushing the DE is probably better left to more duelling-oriented builds). In other maps, the tighter confines around the points and, in some cases, availability of cover reduces their impact. So voting against these maps might help if you're really having trouble with them so you can get some experience dealing with them under more favourable circumstances. Problem is, of course, that these are fairly popular maps generally, so they'll probably come up anyway.

> @"Aeon.4583" said:

> I am starting to think, that one of side-effects that Commander have, after dead-and-back event, is ability to be hidden from any type of premonition visions. Like Dune No-Chambers. In other words, no one can see our Character's future. Also Fungus in Anomaly Zone is making fun of commander about been dead and back.

That could be an interesting twist: Aurene fails every time because her precognition is missing her most important ally...

> @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> I was pleasantly surprised by the introduction of a priestess of Balthazar character and that she'll be sticking around. A lot of what she said really resonated. Relighting his sword and that doing so still activates his magic, and that the sword CANNOT be corrupted by the Brand is very exciting for me too in it's implications. Kormir's Fire keeping the Refuge safe from the Brand as well.

>

> Kralkatorrik in the Mists is very exciting. Let's see what they do from here. Fingers crossed the Gods still have a role to play now there's an Elder Dragon romping about in the Mists.

>

> But also, SCREEE CLIFFHANGER.

In a way, we're seeing what we _should_ have seen in Orr: the gods may be gone, but the things they left behind (and human knowledge therof) still has importance.

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Mickey Frogeater.1470" said:

> > Glint existing in the Mists and at war with Kralkatorrik gives me hope that she will help claim Zhaitan's spot just as Aurene takes Kralkatorrik's spot.

>

> How would she be able to do that? her physical body has been killed off, Aurene still has a physical body and thus can absorb his magic.

For the sake of speculation:

She absorbs _enough_ of Zhaitan's power to cause her own body to Rise, reinhabits it, and goes from there?

(I don't see this as being particularly likely, but it _could_ be possible.)

Given that you've pretty much admitted that you're only skimming, a typical sign of not being open to truly consider the other side's points, I'm just going to go over my core points:

First, there is a big difference between "another option" and "having to fill a slot with something that doesn't fit your stats", which is the case for condi core revenant at the moment. An engineer built for power can always pick rifle, and that fills out their one base weaponset slot. An engineer specced for conditions can take a pistol with the offhand of their choice. Sure, additional options would allow for greater customisation and optimisation, but neither is a bad choice for their build.

Okay, maybe pistol, but that's a numbers thing - it's _supposed_ to be good at dishing out conditions, it's just undertuned. That's a problem to be fixed by improving pistol.

Similar comments apply to necromancer, and necromancer has one of the core distinctions between the rev and engineer: revenant has a weaponswap, and thus needs twice as many sets to complete a build. A condi-oriented necromancer can run scepter/X in one set and staff in the other, and have a decent condition output _regardless of which set they are currently using, and without doubling up on sets._ A power-oriented necromancer, on the other hand, can run dagger, axe, and arguably staff still has decent enough power coefficients to do the job if you can hit multiple targets.

Necromancer does have plenty of issues, mind you, but they're in the territory of getting the numbers right, and not having the active defences needed to survive an increasingly glassy meta. I don't think I've seen anyone saying that the solution is an extra weapon.

Revenant, now... if you go condi revenant, mace/axe is your obvious first choice of weaponset, and Mallyx is an obvious choice of legend. The other core legends aren't condition-oriented, but at least have useful utility for a condition build. And then you go to your second weaponset, and you have... three options that are _all_ designed for power.

Therein lies the problem. Engineer can always choose a weapon that works for a power build or for a condi build. So can elementalist. Because they don't have a weaponswap, that's all they need. Thief, ranger, warrior, mesmer, and necromancer (guardian is special, go back to my previous posts for why) all need two weaponsets each for condi and for power _because they have a weaponswap,_ and because their weapons were designed with being a weaponswapping profession in mind, they _have_ those weaponsets. Revenant does not. Because its weapons were designed without weaponswap in mind (and the reason we have weaponswap now is that, at the bottom line, they were designed poorly for non-weaponswap weapons as well).

Second... I can really only repeat what I said before regarding the social argument: There are _always_ going to be people who complain when someone else gets something and they don't. While no profession should be neglected, the game shouldn't be held hostage to the possibility (a near certainty, really, even for the most obviously needed improvements) that people will complain that attention is being given to another profession.

On that note, too, I had a look at the most recent thread related to the 'more weapons' topic in the engineer forum, and what I found was a couple of people stating that the revenant also needed another core weapon - this being out of the people whom you could probably most expect to be partisan about the issue. So I think that's actually evidence that the more rational part of the playerbase (because again, there will _always_ be people who complain when someone else gets something) would understand the revenant's position.

Guardian, by design, tends to get most of its condition through Justice passive procs.

Because of this, if you want alternatives, look to weapons that can inflict a lot of strikes rapidly. My understanding is that sword is popular for this, since its autoattack routine is apparently faster than axe and thus results in more strikes (and Justice procs) overall. Zealot's Defence is usually good for a proc or two. Greatsword might also be worth considering for the number of procs you can get out of Whirling Wrath, but it probably still loses to sword or axe.

Against groups, you might consider weapons with significant area damage. Hammer (with its near-constant symbol) and the new staff could fit well here, especially if you can combine them with Permeating Wrath so that each Justice passive proc is burning the entire enemy group.

Note, though, that if you're not using axe, you're pretty much moving into Burning being your only damaging condition territory, which is one of the situations where it's worth considering Grieving stats and boosting burn duration through runes rather than Expertise.

> @"wiazabi.2549" said:

> I agree engi lack a power 1h and definitely mace or axe.

>

> Sword feels really off for me as we already got the holo sword which is just awesome so when using the normal sword it just feels like a weaker version, much more fun to have the rifle stuff to go through with leaps shotgun blast cc etc than what you have with sword, the heat part of sword also feel like an attempt to make it interesting but since it didnt really change anything other than numbers it still feels exactly same, except maybe 2 skill with heat between 100-150.

>

>

I think this is pretty much acting as intended, however misplaced that intent might be. Sword allows the player to essentially double down on the holosmith playstyle, continuing to lightsaber after dropping out of holoforge. Doing so is often not a wise move without combining with a ranged kit, however: holosmiths don't really have the defenses to stay in melee indefinitely in most situations. Rifle works much better in practice since it allows you to go in to melee with holoforge while retaining the option to back off when you turn it off.

Reaper greatsword works on a similar principle, but reapers could better afford it due to reaper generally having good sustain in HoT (even if they were susceptible to attracting called target markers in sPvP).

Yyyyeah, I don't think the Priory's activities are any worse than the others there.

Considering the human storyline... the other options were also risky, honestly. Sending in a military force as the Vigil suggested, for instance, risks said military force being noticed by the Risen (in turn bringing the attention of the Risen on the children), being overrun, and turned into Risen, making the situation worse. This, in fact, almost happens if you take this choice. Using the Mortis Verge turns it into a stealth mission, where only a couple of people (beyond the children who are already in danger) are threatened.

In the second instance... the Whispers approach carries a risk as well. It carries the risk that none of Alastia's crew actually have the information that you're looking for, and you've wasted important time looking. Summoning Alastia probably means more risk to the PC, but it does mean talking to the one person that you knew did know what was going on.

With respect to the Order storyline that followed:

The Vigil and OoW arcs might, on the face of it, seem more relevant to Tyria's security, but that's where we're getting into the different focuses of the orders. The OoW, and to a lesser extent the Vigil, do work by involving themselves in Tyrian politics. The Priory, on the whole, does not. It performs research and archaeology. So it's natural for the Priory novice's first expedition to be an archaeological one.

It's actually coincidence (or plot contrivance) that it developed into a story relevant to Tyria's security at all. The Priory is a scholarly organisation. Some of its activities are purely going to be for knowledge's sake. In practice, it did end up being important (unless you want an army of icebrood to attack Lion's Arch) and the Sanguinary Blade being in the Durmand Priory is probably the best place for anything useful to be discovered about it. Maybe someday it'll be the key to defeating Primordus.

The Orrian arc is more complicated, since despite the choices coming from the order representatives, the arcs are not unique to a particular order. The idea to lure in Risen ships using the lighthouses came from a Priory scholar, and all three are concerned for the missing squad. Furthermore, it's known beforehand that they were looking for some artifact, so it isn't completely serendipity that it proved to be a useful component of the aerial assault.

In regard to the 'beware the dangers of secrets kept' line...

The Priory's attitude is essentially that no knowledge should be allowed to be lost altogether, because forgetting about something entirely can allow it to bite you in the backside without warning later. Abaddon and the Elder Dragons are both examples of this. They don't release everything to the public - since that can also be dangerous - but they want to make sure that if their knowledge is needed, it can be made available to those who need it. As opposed to Abaddon, the initial rise of the Elder Dragons, and so on, which were complete surprises due to the knowledge being suppressed.

Abaddon is the object lesson for this. The inscription is specifically in the vicinity of Abaddon's statue and the map of the All (itself linked to the dragons) while not being in a position where it would work as a generic "unauthorised people should keep out" warning: the implication is that it's intended as a warning of the threat that ignorance can pose.

I've seen the engineer discussion you reference. Have some sympathy for it, in fact.

However, I think there is a fundamental distinction:

Core engineers have always been intended to work the way they do - or at least, they have since they were publicly announced. The base weaponsets are designed to be versatile from an engagement distance perspective: you can poke from long range with them if you want to, but each can reward getting in closer if it's practical to do so. Engineers also have kits with which they can use to cover any shortfalls that the base weaponsets might have... or even to take their place as the primary weapon of the build. While the element of choice might be lacking, both power and condi builds are well covered: you take rifle for power, pistol/x for condi, and while additional choices might be nice, you're never put in a situation where you're playing condi and forced to take a power-oriented weapon because there isn't a condi-oriented weapon to fill that slot (or vice versa). While limited in choice, the weapons work for what the engineer needs to do, and every engineer build can choose a weaponset that suits it. Yes, it would be nice if you could have a melee weapon in your base weaponset when you're using ranged-oriented kits, but rifle or pistol will do the job (issues of undertuned numbers notwithstanding).

Revenant design, on the other hand, has been a bit of a clusterkitten.

It was originally intended to be a no-weaponswap profession, but the weapons simply weren't properly designed with that in mind.

We've just discussed how the engineer's base weaponsets are designed to be versatile: able to deal at least some damage at any range while rewarding close-in fighting. Elementalist weapons, while somewhat more specialised in this respect, work in a similar way: daggers maintain some standoff capabilities through Vapor Blade, and staff and scepter both have combos that are most effective at closer ranges. While less convenient than engineer kits, elementalists also have weapon conjures to compensate for shortfalls in their primary weapons if needed.

Revenant weapons, on the other hand, were _not_ designed with this versatility in mind. Staff and sword are basically melee weapons: they HAVE ranged skills, but on a similar level to Throw Axe or Zealot's Defence. Mace could arguably skirmish with Searing Fissure and Echoing Eruption, but is still held back by the lack of a ranged autoattack. Hammer, by contrast, has similar "most effective at long range" skill behaviour to mesmer greatsword and ranger longbow, but lacks the ability of those two weapons to knock enemies back or pull off close-ranged spikes regardless: a hammer revenant was pretty much helpless in close range during the testing weekends. On top of that, revenants didn't have access to additional weapons through utility slots that provide a safety valve for engineers and elementalists.

Resolving this required rebuilding the weaponsets from the ground up (which they didn't really have time for) or making the revenant into a weaponswap profession.

Problem is, as discussed above, the weaponsets weren't designed for being a conventional weaponswapping profession either. The complete lack of an underwater weaponswap was an obvious shortfall, but the other shortfall is that mace/axe is the only weaponset that was made with condition damage in mind, because the other weaponsets were made on the assumption that a condi build would use mace/axe and _wouldn't need another set to swap to._

Revenant lacking a second condition-oriented, or at least hybrid-oriented, weapon isn't just a matter of "it would be nice to have more choice" like it is for engineer. It's a matter of every single condition-oriented revenant that doesn't get an additional condition weapon out of an elite specialisation being _forced_ to take a weapon that's not suitable for their build (or to take mace/X as both weaponsets). Because - unlike engineer, and every other profession in the game for that matter - the weapons were designed around an assumption that did not reflect the final behaviour of the profession.

Resolving this could be in the form of a new (core) weapon, or in adjusting one of the existing weapons, ideally hammer, so that it at least makes a suitable hybrid. But in the long run, it needs to be done. And the longer it isn't done, the more balance issues are going to persist due to plastering bandaid solutions over a fundamentally flawed design.

And I think that if ArenaNet was straight about the problems that have arisen with revenant due to its rushed design process, and that the addition of a weapon was intended to resolve this and that the playerbase shouldn't expect it to be a precedent, I think the majority of the playerbase would accept that.

Now, there are always going to be people who complain when some other profession gets improvements while their own favoured professions are perceived by them as being neglected. And they probably are disproportionately loud on the forums and other discussion venues. But I don't think improvements should be held hostage to the "why did Some Other Profession get a buff and my profession didn't?" crowd.

Well, there WAS a secret core of Abaddon worship. That's how Nightfall happened in the first place.

But it's hardly mainstream, and while the gods certainly played a part, I think it's fair to say that Abaddon-worship would naturally have dwindled even if the gods hadn't attempted to whitewash his existence. And in Abaddon's case, there was always the possibility that he would return (at least, until after Nightfall). Balthazar isn't just imprisoned - he's dead.

As a dead traitor... I don't think he's going to be very popular from here on out. We're _already_ seeing indications of backlash against him in PoF.

Regarding the statue of Abaddon in the Priory... the statue is accompanied by the inscription "Beware the danger of secrets kept". I don't think that's reverence, I think that's the Priory using Abaddon as an object lesson that what you don't know CAN hurt you.

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Reusterr.6982" said:

> > > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > > @"kasoki.5180" said:

> > > > > > @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > It's a minor thing, but according to the recent weapon current event/quest chain, [they've finally gotten around to signing the 'Treaty of Ebonhawke'.](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Xeniph) Not as much fanfare as I would've liked, but... not the first time they've realized they've left a thread hanging too long and cleared it out of the way, and it _is_ about time we got out of negotiation limbo.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > But the term treaty of ebonhawke was always used for ceasefire agreement. I don't really see which part of the dialogue suggests its the peace treaty.

> > > > >

> > > > > But yeah, in all honestly, we can most likely assume that Treaty was signed somewhere in the last 6 years as it is getting ridiculous by this point now

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Id say an *indefinite* cease fire is as close to a peace treaty as you can get without further exploring a diplomatic story in game which would turn alot of players off from the story.

> > > >

> > > > > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > > > > @"kasoki.5180" said:

> > > > > > > @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > It's a minor thing, but according to the recent weapon current event/quest chain, [they've finally gotten around to signing the 'Treaty of Ebonhawke'.](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Xeniph) Not as much fanfare as I would've liked, but... not the first time they've realized they've left a thread hanging too long and cleared it out of the way, and it _is_ about time we got out of negotiation limbo.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But the term treaty of ebonhawke was always used for ceasefire agreement. I don't really see which part of the dialogue suggests its the peace treaty.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But yeah, in all honestly, we can most likely assume that Treaty was signed somewhere in the last 6 years as it is getting ridiculous by this point now

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I get your point, but we've had some really absurdly long talks for treaty's with less hostile nations then the Charr and Humans.

> > > > >

> > > > > But in the terms of a MMO, yes it's been awhile time wise.

> > > >

> > > > For all we know nowadays, Ebonhawke and the Citadel have a full blown peace treaty in the current story year among other things. Due to the maps all being froze in the year of the original story, outside of the few maps that saw updates during season 1.

> > > >

> > > > the black citadel would have been expanded upon, and probably finished at leas the core, the outside towns would have expanded quite a bit since the games launch.

> > > > the towns outside of divinites reach would be a fair bit larger than they are now, all the Asura labs that exist outside of Rata Sum would be more expanded and updated, the smaller "groves" outside of The Grove would be much more grown now.

> > > >

> > > > That is my issue, we cant say anything at all about "what they will look in the future" because we have no examples of them growing in any way on the older maps, which is something i would love to see personally, across the entirety of Tyria.

> > >

> > > Honestly, a lot of people were surprised in S2 when it was revealed that the negotiations were still ongoing. Maps frozen in time is something that's largely accepted as fact.

> > >

> > > (Mind you, I don't think that the charr, asura, and human areas are likely to have expanded much. Stuff that's been there for decades or centuries probably isn't going to grow much over the course of a handful of years without some impetus for that. Sylvari stuff, maybe, since they're still in an early expansion phase.)

> >

> > A second war would be massive 250 years and the charr could not breech ebonhawk thats one long stalemate. nether side can commit to a full scale war. maybe in gw3 something will happen with it and the war restarts and something takes out BC and the humans move back into the region. I just like ascalon it was the true heart of the human kingdoms now its gone.

>

> To be fair you dont have to breach a city, you just have to starve the residents, and if it wasnt for the ebonhawke treaty that would have eventually happened, ontop of the constant bombardment of the city, which would cause injuries, and fatalities over the long run and the fact that they(Charr) did in fact manage to blow a chunk out of the wall, Ebonhawke would have fallen eventually, through starvation and plague, or fatalities from the bombardment. Humans cant reproduce fast enough to keep a war going for long if they are forced into a small cage like Ebonhawke is.

The siege failed, though, because Ebonhawke _wasn't_ starving. Whether by gate or by more conventional means, Ebonhawke survived through Krytan aid and supplies. It's been stated several times that without that aid, Ebonhawke would have fallen a long time ago.

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > It's also struck me that Beast of War has Taimi trying to contact you about something related to the balance, Elder Dragons, Exalted, and the gods, which I don't think was ever followed up. It's _probably_ something like "if you kill Balthazar while Kralkatorrik is around, Kralkatorrik will consume Balthazar's magic and grow stronger" - and thus it doesn't _need_ to be followed up when we see the result. If that's not the case, though, we might see that getting explained in the upcoming episode.

>

> To me this is still kinda misterious, why "the Exalted" mentioned with " the gods" ?

Given the relatively brief period of static there, it could be as simple as "the Exalted say the gods..." - and then the meat of what they said got cut off altogether.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > We can possibly expect that, but I wouldn't call it certain. After all, apart from that one guy in Siren's Landing, nobody took that attitude with Abaddon. Admittedly, the gods themselves took the lead there... but one could argue that the gods have taken the lead here as well. Balthazar was cast out of the pantheon by the gods... is it really appropriate to continue treating him as part of the pantheon after what happened? Or will we start to see baskets appearing on statues of Balthazar all across Tyria?

> >

> > That part doesn't need to be more than a brief reference, but if ArenaNet chooses, they could do something bigger with the diehard followers of Balthazar. With Caudecus gone, one of the main problem-causers for humanity has been removed from the picture... but if Balthazar is cast out of the pantheon, that gives ArenaNet an opportunity to create a new set of troublemakers out of those who refuse to let Balthazar go (and possibly don't believe that he died). This could be as small as an indication that the followers of Balthazar have gone into the countryside and turned to banditry - the various bandit threats across Kryta could then be reframed as happening due to Balthazar-worshipers instead of being a White Mantle hand-in-glove operation.

> They COULD conceivably do something like that for everything above. It just isn't likely.

>

> As for treating him as part of the Pantheon. Given that the gods have left, and whoever replaced Balthazar was never worshiped by the Tyirans, he was never part of their Pantheon, whereas Blathazar was. Even though he was cast out of the 6, the 6 had moved beyond the Tyrians. Balthazar isn't part of the 6 currently, but the Tyrian 6 isn't the 6 as they are now, but the 6 ones that took place in Tyria's history. The Tyrians could be worshiping the 6 as they are now thousands of years into the future, even if they learned Lyssa died, Melandru gave up and was replaced, and any number of changes, because none of that would matter to them since those changes happened after the 6 left, and thus, aren't their 6.

>

> As for the Bandit thing, that seems like an entirely unnecessary thing to do given that its understood that maps are largely time locked.

There's nothing about human religion that says that they _have_ to worship 6. The were content with five for over a thousand years after Abaddon's betrayal.

I don't think humans are likely to just ignore any future changes in the pantheon that they hear about. Sure, if a god dies in the line of duty or has an honorary retirement, they'll be remembered... but I suspect that any actual worship will turn to the current gods, whoever they are. There's a distinction between worship and commemoration, after all. This is compounded by the fact that Balthazar didn't die in the line of duty. He died a traitor, to both the pantheon and to the humans of Tyria. That's going to severely impact any remaining impetus humans have towards worshiping him.

Even if the priests of Balthazar refrain from making trouble and try to take the "we'll remember him as he was" angle, it's likely that most humans aren't going to be interested in even commemorating a traitor: they'll rapidly become like that one priest of Abaddon in Siren's Landing. Assuming that a replacement doesn't become known, Balthazar's patronage of soldiers will probably migrate to Kormir, as she was a military commander in life, likely with a focus on fighting _for the right reasons_ rather than fighting for the sake of fighting. Balthazar would become a warning, a symbol of what can be lost through pride and unchecked aggression.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > Particularly given that we hear a lot from Vlast (and see a shot of him in Glint's lair) in the trailer. Yes, much of it comes from back in PoF, but it could be that now is the time Aurene gets the chance to actually reflect upon what Vlast left for her.

>

> It's also possible that the two segments that were distorted will be fixed.

It's also struck me that Beast of War has Taimi trying to contact you about something related to the balance, Elder Dragons, Exalted, and the gods, which I don't think was ever followed up. It's _probably_ something like "if you kill Balthazar while Kralkatorrik is around, Kralkatorrik will consume Balthazar's magic and grow stronger" - and thus it doesn't _need_ to be followed up when we see the result. If that's not the case, though, we might see that getting explained in the upcoming episode.

You seem to be assuming that because I'm in a revenant forum, supporting a request for an improvement for the revenant, that I'm more of a revenant player than an engineer player. This isn't the case. I wouldn't say that engineer is my main, but I'm definitely playing engineer a lot more than rev, especially since PoF.

The distinction with the engineer and elementalist is that because they don't have a weaponswap, they don't _need_ more than one weaponset suitable for any given build. Engineer has a very clear separation: if you're power-oriented you take rifle, if you're condi-oriented you take pistol, unless some utility consideration is more important than keeping to the damage type. A core melee weapon would be _nice_, sure, but the core engineer works without one, especially since the rifle is largely designed as a close-range weapon with the option to poke at long range anyway. Elementalist has a set of weapons defined more by engagement distance, but they're all hybrids to some extent, although some elementalist weapon sets are certainly more suited to one side of the condition/power spectrum than the other.

Similarly, thieves also have enough options to fill out both weaponswaps regardless of whether they go condition or power. Dagger/dagger, pistol/dagger, and shortbow are all capable at dishing out conditions depending on which skills you choose to spend initiative on, while most sets also work well as power sets. (I'd also note that, while revenant technically has the same number of primary weapons as thieves, mesmers, and necromancers, soldier professions have a precedent of having more weapon choices, so they can have a wider range of melee-focused weapons while still having more than one choice of ranged weapon. Revenant has the melee focus of soldiers, but with the un-boonsmiting of guardian staff 1, is the only core profession that has only one ranged option.)

This principle spreads across other professions: with two exceptions, each profession with a weaponswap has at least two power-oriented weaponsets and two condition-oriented (or sufficiently hybridised that they can work as such) weaponsets. Warrior has sword/X and longbow. Ranger has shortbow and axe/dagger or torch. Mesmer and necromancer each has scepter/X and staff.

The exceptions are guardian and revenant.

Guardian is an exception due to how it is designed: to an extent, guardian was never _really_ intended to be a condition damage dealer until Firebrand, and non-firebrand guardians are intended to mostly lean on Virtue of Justice (and utilities) for their burn sources. As a result, guardian weapons are largely designed to synergise well with Virtue of Justice passive procs in order to generate burning that way, with a number of weapons bearing skills focused on multiple small hits in order to generate lots of VoJ passive activations. In short, guardian is designed to _not need_ dedicated condition weapons. Even firebrand axe is possibly more of a hybrid than a dedicated condition weapon.

Revenant, on the other hand, is an exception because of how it was originally designed as a non-weaponswap profession. Sword, hammer, and staff didn't _need_ to be condition-friendly in their original design brief, because the assumption was that if you were going condi as a revenant you'd take mace/axe and that would be all you needed. Except now that's not all they need, because they're a weaponswap profession, and none of their other core sets are suitable for conditions. Generally, sword is taken because it's the least bad (lots of quick attacks and chill to proc traits, and the evade frames are useful, similar to condi mesmers using sword for defence and utility) or hammer just to have SOME ranged capability and it's the only core option to do that despite how poorly it interacts with Rampant Vex, but _every other revenant set_ is designed purely with power builds in mind. Unlike guardian, this can't be brushed off as "well, revenants aren't supposed to do condition damage", because clearly they _are_.

There's always going to be some people complaining when they see another profession getting something when they see their profession as lacking something important, but I think the more rational side of the playerbase would understand if ArenaNet explained that it was a special one-off case to resolve a problem that arose due to the revenant's development history. If they don't fix this problem at the core level, it's just going to keep coming back to bite them every time they want to make a condi-oriented elite specialisation for revenant.

The alternative would be making one of the existing core weapons a more practical hybrid. My suggestion would be reducing the direct damage of Coalescence of Ruin in exchange for a hefty bleeding stack - this would kill two birds with one stone by also giving CoR spikes a bit more counterplay.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> * Balthazar being killed isn't going to have much of an effect in the long run. At this point, its been basically a year since he died, and everyone knows what he did, and that he died. We can expect the church to pull the classic move of "we will remember him for who he was, not what he became" and continue on from there. He will lose followers for his actions, but people will still venerate him for all the things he did to help people in the past.

We can possibly expect that, but I wouldn't call it certain. After all, apart from that one guy in Siren's Landing, nobody took that attitude with Abaddon. Admittedly, the gods themselves took the lead there... but one could argue that the gods have taken the lead here as well. Balthazar was cast out of the pantheon by the gods... is it really appropriate to continue treating him as part of the pantheon after what happened? Or will we start to see baskets appearing on statues of Balthazar all across Tyria?

That part doesn't need to be more than a brief reference, but if ArenaNet chooses, they could do something bigger with the diehard followers of Balthazar. With Caudecus gone, one of the main problem-causers for humanity has been removed from the picture... but if Balthazar is cast out of the pantheon, that gives ArenaNet an opportunity to create a new set of troublemakers out of those who refuse to let Balthazar go (and possibly don't believe that he died). This could be as small as an indication that the followers of Balthazar have gone into the countryside and turned to banditry - the various bandit threats across Kryta could then be reframed as happening due to Balthazar-worshipers instead of being a White Mantle hand-in-glove operation.