draxynnic.3719

Might be a response he does regardless of tone - I remember him saying that while I was giving the 'vague' speech.

Me, on finding out that I was hunting an Eater of Souls: "Going on a scarab hunt..."

Konig: "Prepare for disappointment in 5... 4..."

Me: (had already engaged and been disappointed before Konig's response even arrived and was too busy fighting to respond)

> @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> Granted, that still leaves plenty of questions: why aren't the gods evacuating Tyria, the way they apparently did to bring humans here in the first place?

It's possible that they believe Tyria is lost, but they're going to wait until 'belief' becomes 'certainty' before they evacuate.

Or they have human populations seeded elsewhere and thus the human population of Tyria doesn't matter overly much to them any more. Or they simply don't have anywhere to put any humans they did evacuate.

Personally, I didn't particularly like the buildup either. Because it was all so... _predictable._

I was excited about Vlast's introduction, but very quickly predicted that Balthazar would kill him before we had any meaningful interaction. Sure enough...

Going and seeing 'the gods' had potential, but we get a speech from Kormir about how neither she nor the other gods would intervene... which is about what I was expecting from that instance. Meanwhile, we get exposition that Balthazar's story is that what he wanted to do was going to cause more harm then good, the other gods acted to prevent that, and he threw a massive tantrum... they really did make him Abaddon 2.0.

Frankly, there was a point in there where I was thinking that the whole thing had jumped the shark (never mind that, given raptors and sand sharks, you can literally do exactly that in the very first map...). It was the second half where things did actually stop being completely predictable... apart from Balthazar being able to grab Aurene and turning it into a rescue mission, of course. At least now we have an explanation as to why 'Lazarus' protected Aurene in S3E2.

> @Euthymias.7984 said:

> The buildup was nice, but I feel like Vlast and Balthazar's Herald shouldn't have been killed so soon. Maybe as we drew closer to the ending - say, he could have accompanied us up to the point of finding the Spear, and be killed while helping us protect it from the Forged/Herald finding their way into Glint's lair for the weapon. I would have loved some dialogue between him and the PC, with an Aurene illusion watching and interacting with him briefly.

>

> Kormir's involvement was barely notable, and the idea that the 5 were staying not only out of the matter but **leaving Tyria entirely** is just....

> I mean, couldn't she at least have Blessed the Sword so that it could be more believable that its charged up state could fell a god/offer divine protection against getting insta-gibbed by Balthazar like before,

Yeah, I think they really did need to have Kormir's appearance there be a little more significant. She could have informed the PC that what they needed next was in the Riverlands, giving a reason to go that way. There could even have been a mention, in the afterlife instance, that the Judge had been asked by Kormir to let the PC be resurrected. Instead, she just... leaves us a few words of encouragement and expects us to fight a god.

Doing alternate lines for every single race probably is going a bit too far. However, I think it is reasonable for the writers to check over the generic lines and ask 'Does this make sense for every race?' and change the lines for the races it doesn't make sense for. Which is generally likely to be one, maybe two races.

As you noted yourself, HoT had a lot of special stuff for sylvari. PoF was the opportunity to have more special stuff for humans, for whom this could be a crisis of faith as much as it is for Kasmeer.

It's also worth noting that to begin with, we're going to Amnoon, not to Elona proper (Amnoon is independent of Palawa Joko and appears to have been outside Elona's borders before Joko took over, so it seems to be a free city located close to the border rather than being Elonian per se). So it seems reasonably likely that Tyrians might have had diplomatic contact with Amnoon for a while, without directly interacting with Elona.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

>

> Forged are not corrupted. They are constructs. Completely different concepts. The Forged are metal animated by enslaved or willing souls. We saw the same thing with Shiro'ken during Factions in gw1.

>

> Furthermore the Herald didn't necessarily mean as Forged. Just alliance with Balthazar.

There's also an evidence that appears to indicate that the Inquest think that sylvari souls can be used to power a golem, so sylvari being bound into constructs does not seem too farfetched.

I think Inc does have a valid point - there may be something about magic that means that six is the most efficient way to distribute it. The Elder Dragons represent how it was divided on Tyria, while the Six Gods represent how it was divided... wherever it is that the original set of gods started.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> His domain of mind let him use micro-management mass telepathy among his corruption and even transfer and possess his corruption (why he waited until the end instead of pulling a Harbinger with Collectors from ME2 is beyond me though).

My theory there is that he needed a separate mind that he didn't already control to hide behind. Whatever we were doing to his mind, it was spread out all across the hive mind that he'd established across his minions and corruption - in order to hide from it, he needed to implant a portion of his mind into a mind that he had contact with and enough influence that he could control it, but not enough control that it was already part of his hive mind.

It may even have required physical contact, explaining why he couldn't simply download himself into a random Mordrem Guard.

I think the issue with becoming Soundless is that while you're trying to block out any messages from the Dream, you're still connected to it. Thus giving you all of the vulnerability and none of the protection.

Personally, I think the most likely explanation for it all is that at some point the Pale Tree, and through her the sylvari, was given protection, through Forgotten magic or some other avenue, from conventional dragon corruption, while Mordremoth is simply using mind control. An entity that is immune to conventional dragon corruption can still choose (or be coerced) to serve a dragon through other means.

It's probably more technically accurate that undead are _neither_ dead nor living than to say that they're both.

Incidentally, on Discworld's Death, it's actually part of the Discworld mechanics that Death simply facilitates the transition between life and afterlife, he has no jurisdiction over the latter. Instead, souls go to wherever they _believe_ they'll go. Generally, at most, Death gives a few words of advice before leaving the soul to its own devices.

> @Thalador.4218 said:

> Wholeheartedly agreed. I was actually hoping that they would include the tiny, awesome detail where the cancellation/failure of the Hounds of Balthazar skill would happen when facing him both in his Lazarus illusion and when fighting the actual Temar and Tegon in the heart of the volcano. As human-main player, it was comical when I beseeched him both times to send the echoes of his hounds to aid me against _him_. Or even if the magic behind the summon is separate from his approval/favor, there could've been an achievement for that: Heretic/Apostate or something.

>

> Really hope that what Drax mentioned above is going to be true. This expansion does deserve special stuff for human characters, as well as more nuanced ways to express our crises of faith.

Hahah - second time around, I did that _deliberately_, purely for the irony factor... :p

I've generally considered the human racial skills to be manifestations of the divinity within, as mentioned at the end of Nightfall, so as much as I enjoyed the irony of setting up a literal dogfight, it does seem plausible that Balthazar can't stop you from delivering that irony.

It would be cute for human fire elementalists to get a new line once everything shakes out, though, and make which line is used dependent on where the player (or the listener?) is in the story.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> I wouldn't call a purple hued beam of light to be "chaos-related". Especially with how heavily prominent purple is across everything Branded.

>

> It is kind of like calling a white-blue beam of light used by the icebrood guardian related.

There are attacks used by mesmer enemies that have the graphics of a purple hued beam of light, however. Not saying that it absolutely can't be something else, but it's there.

I think there's also a Branded which fires off a stream of orbs similar to the Risen Ravagers as well.

Either way, we should get a closer look at Branded abilities over the next fortnight.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> There's only one chaos-themed looking skill among all branded/Glint/Kralkatorrik stuff - [which is this thing](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Noxious_Branded_Plant).

I think there is a bit more than just that. Branded humans, for instance, have attacks that are reminiscent of mesmer enemies. It does seem to all be from the 'chaos' side of things than from the 'illusion' or 'mind manipulation' sides of the mesmer, however.

> @"The Greyhawk.9107" said:

> > @TheConquerer.8639 said:

> > > @Fenom.9457 said:

> > > We'll likely see a way Branded forgotten

> >

> > Don't the Forgotten have magic that directly conflicts with Elder Dragon corruption?

>

> That's what I've heard some say. Cannot confirm myself though.

> .

> ___

> Hate Is Fuel

> ___

From the Forgotten path in Arah, the Forgotten have magic that can cleanse the mental form of dragon corruption, and which can effectively inoculate a creature or object against corruption. Whether they've used that on **themselves** to prevent them from being corrupted is unknown. That said, there do seem to be indications that none of the elder races or their artifacts can be corrupted - with the possible exception of jotun, but even then it seems to be a matter of a particular group willingly aligning with Jormag rather than being corrupted in the traditional sense (although I'd need to replay that sequence to be sure - I last played it during beta...)

> @Jinroh.4251 said:

> > @Erasculio.2914 said:

> > > @Oglaf.1074 said:

> > > Elementalists praising him still when attuning to fire, being able to set his own Hounds against him etc.

> >

> > I agree completely.

> >

> > It doesn't bother me that we don't see NPCs complaining about it - they are frozen in time.

> >

> > I would have expected, though, a much bigger reaction from the human playable characters. During character creation we could choose that they would have been blessed by Balthazar, and yet, when facing the god himself, we get... Nothing? The Six Gods are said to have a important role in human culture, even despite their recent silence. To not see some kind of special reaction from the human PCs is, well, very disappointing.

> >

> >

>

> Nothing? That's lame. I mean I remember Season 1 if you were Charr and you talked to Roxx after beating Scarlet you mention all the Warband stuff. If you were Sylvari in HOT the NPCs acted differently around you, especially in the story. Did they just plain forget?

Apparently. Human and charr PCs should both have had different reactions to the revelation that 'Lazarus' was actually Balthazar, but all races have thus far reacted pretty much the same. It's a bit of a disappointment.

Let's hope that it's handled a bit differently with PoF. HoT had special stuff for sylvari - PoF really should have special stuff for humans. Heck, there could even be Ascension in the cards to ask the other gods WTF? (If you're not human yourself, you can assist Kasmeer...)

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> Hero-Tron was actually giving out job pamphlets when they rebuilt LA. It was the job the Captain's Council gave Hero-Tron, perhaps with some irony to it.

>

> O-Tron went full circle.

I think there was actually a conversation regarding it - it came up as one of the things Hero-Tron could do to assist in getting Lion's Arch back on its proverbial feet.

I think the closest elite spec to Balthazar is probably the Berserker.

From a broader perspective, as people have said, the gods do not fit nicely into the box of a single profession. Those who've done the appropriate instances would know that the avatar of Balthazar is essentially a mix of warrior and fire elementalist. Balthazar was also a patron to smiting monks and more aggressive paragons, too, so he probably has a lot of guardian stuff in his metaphorical toolbox, too. And being a god, and having absorbed a lot of magic from other sources, it's entirely possible that this range only represents his preferences, not his full range of capabilities. It's quite possible that Balthazar has all the capabilities of warriors, elementalists, and guardians combined, and possibly plenty of capabilities outside those professions as well, it's just that his preference is to burn things and hit them with a big sword.

Shiny's fate is completely unknown at the moment. We know he (do we even know it's 'he'?) was last placed in the Hidden City of Ahdashim, but haven't heard anything since. Shiny could be anything from having died fighting Joko's forces, departed Ahdashim for realms unknown, gone rogue and died fighting Elonian forces before Joko's conquest, or still lairing in the Hidden City.

> @Assic.2746 said:

> According to GW1 Nightfall centaurs were used as mounts by Undead/Awakened. I would like to see that or at least a few awakened centaurs.

My understanding is that it was more that Awakened centaurs were used as cavalry by Joko - there were no instances of other Awakened riding Awakened centaurs in Nightfall, but there certainly were centaurs among the Awakened. (Interestingly, though, they were all spellcasters, while the 'Awakened Cavaliers' were infantry. So it's possible that Awakened warbands effectively fought as dragoons, dismounting for combat.)

> @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > @draxynnic.3719 said:

> > > @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > >

> > > Mordremoth didn't corrupt Sylvari through the dream. He didn't corrput them at all, he made them, they were Mordrem, his minions. What Pale Tree did was provide a safe haven so that the Sylvari were out of Mordremoth's reach and we able to have free will. What Mordy did in HoT was to reclaim some of his minions.

> >

> > We've seen, through the side achievement of the Rata Novus instance that Konig referred to, that turned sylvari do not have the same behaviour as dragon minions normally do. Typically, a dragon minion retains its loyalties to their dragon even when isolated from the dragon. The sylvari in the achievement, however, was able to regain his own mind when isolated from Mordremoth, and only Canach's pushing of him to reconnect with Mordremoth caused him to revert to Mordremoth's control.

> >

>

> That's because Sylvari have the backup of the Pale Tree. They can reconnect to the uncorrupted part of the Dream the Sylvari share and regain their free will. They had a life before joining Mordremoth, so they are different from the rest of the dragon minions that begin their life under the contol of a dragon.

>

> Eve then, we saw Zhaitan's undead in the last episode that we are not exactly loyal to Zhaitan (compared to the blind followers they used to be), but they didn't have any other choice. All they knew was serving Zhaitan and killing in his name, and they just continue out of habit. We almost reasned with one of them.

The sylvari in Buried Insight doesn't say anything about reconnecting to the Pale Tree. He's simply blocked off from Mordremoth.

Having the protection of the Pale Tree certainly helps (but how is she protected herself?), but the mechanic does seem to be different... and apart from that one grub, the Risen still seem to be loyal to Zhaitan unless cleansed in some fashion. Even with that grub, we don't really know for sure what's going on there - it might still technically be loyal to Zhaitan, but having not received any orders for years its reverted to its natural behaviour.

> @Ayakaru.6583 said:

> if you torment a piece of siege equipment, it will wonder what it ever did to you to deserve this kind of treatment.

Bombarding mid in Khylo wasn't enough?

(Although I have a feeling the Khylo trebs are still immune to conditions... don't quote me on that, though.)

> @castlemanic.3198 said:

> > @Vesuvius.9874 said:

> > Do sylvari inhale carbon dioxide and exhale oxygen like normal plants do?

>

> Better ask Phlunt this question (wasn't he the asura that experimented on Malomedies?)

We do have some information with which we can derive an answer to this question:

Sylvari do photosynthesise. A sylvari that gets a lot of sunlight is more energetic and needs to eat less than one in the dark. However, they're not able to get all of their nutrition this way.

From this, we can probably conclude that they do take up carbon dioxide and water and turn it into organic molecules and oxygen like plants do. However, they don't fulfill all of their energy requirements that way, so even in full sunlight, they probably use more oxygen than they produce.

> @RabbitUp.8294 said:

>

> Mordremoth didn't corrupt Sylvari through the dream. He didn't corrput them at all, he made them, they were Mordrem, his minions. What Pale Tree did was provide a safe haven so that the Sylvari were out of Mordremoth's reach and we able to have free will. What Mordy did in HoT was to reclaim some of his minions.

We've seen, through the side achievement of the Rata Novus instance that Konig referred to, that turned sylvari do not have the same behaviour as dragon minions normally do. Typically, a dragon minion retains its loyalties to their dragon even when isolated from the dragon. The sylvari in the achievement, however, was able to regain his own mind when isolated from Mordremoth, and only Canach's pushing of him to reconnect with Mordremoth caused him to revert to Mordremoth's control.

Classical dragon minions have a hard switch thrown deep in their psyche - they are loyal to their Elder Dragon above all other loyalties. What Mordremoth did to the sylvari was a more surface-level form of mind control by bombarding them with his wishes until they couldn't tell the difference between his thoughts and their own.

One thing to note is that Prophecies lore stated that after the Exodus, the gods went on to tend other worlds. Now, most of the Prophecies Manuscripts, particularly regarding the gods, turned out to be unreliable narrator, but it's possible that Tyria isn't the only world that the gods have followers on, which would explain why Balthazar would consider it inconsequential. Why care about one world if power harvested from it would allow him to secure several?

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> That's certainly what the trailer leads us to believe. But if one thing Season 3 should have taught is, it is to no longer take trailers at face value. Episode 4's trailer, with the minister's speech, is a prime example of this. The trailer sets it up to make us think that it's a pro-Jennah speech, when it is in fact an anti-Jennah speech. Episode 6's trailer has something similar, where we are led to believe the "throw them into his fires" is referring to the risen... when it's referring to the mercenaries.

Interesting wrinkle there, in that the ghost who tells you to do that was talking about throwing the undead into the fires. Either she's confused enough to think that the mercenaries are Risen, or the mercenaries are still good enough sacrifices for some undisclosed reason.

> @Dondarrion.2748 said:

> Found another bit concerning the Temple of the Six Gods in a dialogue between a Tormented Soul and Kormir.

>

> > Tormented Soul: "And when Abaddon fell, he pulled it down into Torment. It is now overrun by his Margonite worshipers."

>

> So, instead of the other Gods sending the temple to the Realm of Torment with Abaddon; he may actually have pulled it in. Could the Crystal Sea shoreline to Elona have been fairly close to where Mouth of Torment is.

It probably would be. The Mouth of Torment is pretty close to the northern edge of the Desolation, so if you conclude that the Desolation was dry land before Abaddon's defeat then it would be close to the southern shore. Conversely, it's not that far west from Vabbi, so if most of the Desolation was also water, then it could still be an island or peninsula.