Aza.2105

Its been requested time and time again. Anet added it.....to pve. Because apparently having it in pvp is a bad idea. Even though gw1 had it like the above poster said. I believe they said that they didn't add it in pvp because it would be abused. Problem is...it was never abused in gw1 and it took all party members to /resign for it to work.

> @nacario.9417 said:

> > @Aza.2105 said:

> > I can't believe you guys are saying 21k damage is ok. That's nearly twice as much as the lowest tier base health and more than the highest tier health. You guys are insane.

>

> There are many things that are questionable if "ok". Yes 21k dmg is not normal, but look at the grand picture. So you have to be a deadeye to do that damage, that already gimps you in other aspects, especially when in higher play/leg play where you easily get focused. A deadeye has lower mobility so forget about being able to decap like a daredevil, and deadeye is an has little to offer in Group fights, other than its range and damage which you can LoS or focus the guy. Any class should have a cooldown or two to counter the deadeye burst, use them well to shut him down, otherwise he will do damage to you. It's the same thing on a deadeye, if you let the enemy, let's say a burn guard open on you for a few seconds you are toasted. That's the difference between being a meatsack or someone who actively use his abilities.

>

I don't want to hear any excuses. It doesn't matter what a class can or can't do. That kind of damage is unacceptable. Players are not raid bosses. When people say that the damage is ok and its a l2p issue and that you should just "dodge". What they really are saying is that gw2 is just dodge or die. Think about the balance there, if you don't dodge you die in one hit. Even in pve the stuff that one shots you typically has a long cast time or a very obvious sign (like a giant glob on the floor), in addition its also very predictable. In pvp you have 4 other characters possibly hitting on you who might be doing just as much damage. So who you going to dodge? That spellbreaker, scourge etc etc? Its just too much. None of this stuff is ok. Rock gazelle isn't ok, spellbreaker isn't ok, scourge instant conditions aren't ok, getting hit for 21k at long range by something you may or may not see isn't ok, DH traps were never ok, all the invuls and blocks going around isn't ok.

The game is a freaking mess.

I can't believe you guys are saying 21k damage is ok. That's nearly twice as much as the lowest tier base health and more than the highest tier health. You guys are insane.

> @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > @Aza.2105 said:

> > Look, evade is just like invul. You can't take damage. There is no difference besides the name.

You can't evade wards and DH's spear of justice. I think that is about it. In other words a very niche selection of skills.

Look, evade is just like invul. You can't take damage. There is no difference besides the name.

> @Zoltreez.6435 said:

> > @MyPuppy.8970 said:

> > Some will say because it can already be negated by cleansing/resistance and that there's already too much of that.

> > Others would argue that condies would be reapplied as fast anyway, there wouldn't be enough cleanses.

> >

> > I would have liked if there was some kind of condition resistance stat. Heavy armors have better protection against direct damage, maybe light armors could have better resistance against conditions. Just an idea.

>

> i personaly would like a NEW stat againts condies..... that works similare to Toughness......

>

> and you could decide if you want to be strong againts condies or power stuff....

Toughness doesn't really do much against physical damage these days. Damage is way too high.

> @Loop.8106 said:

>The core design of warrior was to load a few skills (like evade frame on GS 3) as well as traits in order to be able to power through Protection uptimes. Now that >you have boon-rip and near unlimited access to to Resistance so that you can't really get kited as much, Warriors have turned into a new level of power-house.

>This is the last attempt I will try to get you to see that I'm not trying to butcher the class. I'm trying to bring it in line.

I believe Anet originally referred to it as roles with holes. Its the balance philosophy they followed. The holes were the apparent weaknesses of each class. Like with guardian, their weakness is boon strip and sluggish mobility. They were meant to get into combat and stay there according to the original balance team. Warrior like wise was suppose to be different than guardian, instead of being boon centric they were suppose to use raw power. Its why if you look at the original core traits they didn't have access to things like protection. Hell, warrior wasn't even suppose to have a great deal of condi removal. When they added cleansing ire, they were throwing warrior a bone. Because they didn't want to move too far away from its original design.

Which leads to something else. Originally Guardian had the same health tier as warrior. But due to their high protection up time and access to blocks, they were nerfed to ele tier health. 5 years later we got warriors with high block up time and protection. Its a twist in philosophy and its the result of Anet losing sight of the holes in roles philosophy. What they need to do is go back to their original intention with classes, instead of trying to get rid of their weaknesses all together. You need apparent weaknesses to have respectable counter play.

Spellbreaker is a example of everything wrong with the game balance wise and how Anet does not care about pvp what so ever. Damage is too high, sustain is too high, aoes are too much, everything needs to be toned down a few notches.

Anet doesn't do balance patches during season pvp to prevent changes in the meta and potential imbalances.

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> We're considering a few potential changes to Legacy of the Foefire in the future to help reduce the "snowbally" nature of the map. We wanted to get your thoughts before we start work to see what people think. This isn't a promise or a guarantee of changes. We're just doing a bit of "thinking out loud."

>

> **Reduce the size of mid**

> Mid is really big, compared to other points. This makes kiting particularly effective, since you can kite a lot and remain in the point. This makes easier to defend in comparison to other points.

>

> **Reduce runtimes to home**

> Runtime to home on Foefire is the longest of all conquest maps. It's difficult to regroup at home after a lost fight to the point where it's likely to get decapped.

>

>

What? The mid point size in foefire is the size every point should be. Many people have been saying that for years!!!

The 2nd change looks ok though.

> @kKagari.6804 said:

> The people I defeat with Spellbreaker, I'm quite sure I can do without using Full Counter. The toolset is strong because of the sustain, Full Counter is just the icing on the cake. It's simply another high damage packet burst that has a slightly different mechanic. Sure, you can't block it, but you can evade it and it does require you to hit them first. How is that any different to me unloading an arcing slice for even more damage?

>

> If theres anything to complain about its how ridiculously good magebane tether is. I wouldn't take revenge counter unless I'm up against heavy conditions.

The difference is is that surrounding players get highly punished by a single player who so happens to hit a warrior during full counter. In addition you only have a very tiny interval to punish a warrior due to high sustain, resistance, blocks, invul and mobility all while wearing a dps amulet. How is that not a problem?

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @Exedore.6320 said:

> > I could see a lower stat celestial being okay. Would still need to nerf some defenses though.

>

> We've actually talked about bringing back a nerfed celestial amulet recently. We're thinking 500 per stat, down from 560. We'd reintroduce between seasons and see how it performs.

Hey Ben,

I have a suggestion. Why don't you guys give each class their own selection of amulets? It could be easier to balance between classes. Instead of universally removing a amulet, you could simply remove it from the classes that are over benefiting from it.

> @Loop.8106 said:

> Warrior: They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force.

> Oh the irony.

Yeah I know, Anet tossed all of that out the window real quick. I remember waiting for that aoe nerf, but it never came. It only got worse lol.

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> PvP team doesn't speak for Balance team, that's why..

>

> Anet has never laid out the balance vision for professions or had regular dialogue about how things are doing (it's rare)..

They actually did lay out their vision for each class, that was a few years back though:

**Class balance philosophies**

We normally try to employ metered and controlled balance changes with each pass, rather than huge reductions or improvements to classes. We want to get all classes on the same playing field, and we want to avoid “whack-a-mole” style balance. HUGH increases and HUGE decreases lead to meta instability, and thusly, we try to make multiple small tweaks rather than putting in massive changes that we have to later correct.

When designing and balancing the classes, we try to make sure that class roles and identities stay intact. So, in doing so, we make sure that there are rules and boundaries outlining the capabilities and weaknesses of each class.

**Warrior**

We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

**Guardian**

The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.

**Ranger**

The ranger class combines its own innate abilities with the skills of their pets. We’ve balanced the class around the idea that you always have a pet with you to aid in any fight. The fact that the ranger can have multiple pets allows them to combine their pets in ways that most impact the current fight. We want the Ranger to have some of the evasion enjoyed by the Thief, as well as the mobility other classes employ. The class is able to deal physical or condition damage, and it can do this in melee or at range.

**Engineer**

The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

**Thief**

Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

**Mesmer**

Mesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks.

**Ele**

We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.

**Necro**

The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health.

**Going forward**

Tank vs spike vs physical DPS vs condie DPS. We want to keep making balance changes that allow all classes to have various builds they can use. We don’t want tanks dominating the game, and we don’t want spike builds dominating. It’s healthy to have multiple types of builds in the meta, so we’ll be improving the balance to facilitate a healthy meta.

AOE balance. We feel that in PvP some AOE builds are too strong for the opportunity cost, and we’ll be bringing those in line in the next few patches.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012

Guardian trait blinding jeopardy only gives one stack of vulnerability when using mantra of truth.

> @Lan.1968 said:

> > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > @Lan.1968 said:

> > > > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > > > @Lan.1968 said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > > > > Here is a read i would like to share with you. Although it speak about Esport gaming, its main focus is on competitive gaming with steep learning curve that are worth the effort in resulting in players having fun. Isn't that is what make a competitive game?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes a steep learning curve will feel more gratifying when you have mastered something, but that has nothing to do with complaining about the strengths of others due to your lack of abilities. Competitive gaming are all about learning to adapt and become even better than before, and players are not so hung up about picking "favorites", but instead they aim for what is the most efficient. THAT is the point of PvP and competition in general.

> > > >

> > > > Do you see any learning to adapt in these videos? Players are being killed in less than 3 seconds at 1500 range? Lack of abilities?? Who's lacking abilities, the players whose instantly dying? or the dead eyes whose stealthing than proceeding into spamming broken mechanics?

> > > >

> > > > You can try hard to to defend bad broken design mechanics but the truth must be exposed. Anet must address this A.S.A.P!! or they will be at a greater loss in their player base population including in their profits shares.

> > >

> > > I'm fairly certain the learning curve is knowing how to fight against these classes. you do know there is a warning indicator when a deadeye is about to pop someone off and that indicator actually becomes more evident and larger when the threat is real. You're basically implying a team of five deadeyes would dominate the arena, and we both know that would never happen. Rather than going through aches and pains of trying to deny change, why not think of ideas on how to counter the class instead? Better yet, PLAY the class if you feel it's so strong.

> >

> > Once again, this explains it all. Anet i encourage you to take note.

> >

> > "Analysis: The Consequences of Reducing the Skill Gap"

> >

> >

>

> I don't think you actually understand the point of this video. The consequences of reducing skill gap in fighting games come from physical skills rather than a mental one. Players in fighting games are capable of pulling off difficult moves tend to rely on their reflexes to react, think, and respond fast enough in order to pull off a come-back or an upset. These players are not upset that certain characters are so much more stronger than others that it broke the game, but rather the fact their years of effort in to perfecting a character has been made to waste through an easier skill curve. This would be relating a Revenant player being good at his class, then is upset at Anet for making Revenants very easy to play through a rework. This does not mean Revenant is overpowered, nor does this mean the game is "literally unplayable" because Revenant's skill curve went lower. You understand that what you're arguing for is completely different from what these professional players have in mind for the game right?

>

> Another reason this video doesn't help with your case is purely because it isn't arguing about the familiarity between the player and the game, but rather the lack of options a player has when playing street fighter 5. What the video wants to emphasize is street fighter has become more of a luck-draw type of game to see who's capable of catching their opponent off-guard first and not by execution, purely because the execution for attacking and defending have been simplified. In an mmorpg, player competition are more about strategy than reaction, and how to counter a specific scenario such as a deadeye preparing him to shoot you with projectile barriers or damage reduction, then stealth seeking abilities to remove the threat. You have a harder time removing the "difficulty" of mmorpgs because every skill is designed to do their specific purpose, and there will always be counters to the holy trinity of skill types: offense, defense, and healing. To create a scenario where classes actually force players to have a limited skill gap would be to somehow make every class perform one role of skills only, and the outcome of victory is determined by who is more capable of executing that role of skills. In other words, if everyone was only able to output significant damage like deadeye, with no projectile barriers, no damage reductions, no invulnerability, and no healing, then you can argue that players have now been restricted in skill gap because all you're left with is dodging an ability and line of sight.

>

> Take Moba's such as League and Dota as the biggest reference to competitive esports. In such games, the reason a player's skill gap will never be restricted within the game is largely to do his/her knowledge of the game, experience, reflex, and largely strategy. Professional players understand the capabilities of each hero or champion, almost to the point of understanding their limitations and how to play around such limitations, just like an mmorpg. Once you understand your opponent's champion or hero, you will understand how to combat it regardless of how "overpowered" it is within certain patches. This is the same with any game that places emphasis on a strategical value rather than a technical one, and the only mmorpg game that you could bring up as a reference would very likely be Blade and Soul, but what ruined Blade and Soul wasn't "the progress" of learning the Class's moves, but the overbearing complexity with difficult-to-execute-combinations and the uncertainly of lag.

>

> Like I said before: there will always be a hierarchy of classes in every game and every path. Usually, there are always a different group of people complaining about the same things, but at different times. However, a good player never shifts the responsibility to the game itself without first trying to break past the meta and climb up on top, and that is where you've failed.

Do you even play street fighter?

> @Burnfall.9573 said:

> Vertep, "with rifle you need time to charge your malice while with other weapons...just mark your target and now you can start burst with greater efficiency than rifle and really you will kill few players as daredevil or deadeye with any other weapon than rifle while with rifle you will get maybe just 1 kill from this "1shot" with not to mention you need to have good team to be viable to use rifle to 1shoting people while with other weapons you dont need any help at 1v1 and atleast you have better mobility to faster run away if need"

>

> **"The More You Hide The Truth, The More It Will Reveal Itself"**

>

>

Lmao that is Anet balance for you.

> @"Bella Kim.4061" said:

> If you have 5 stacks of Stability , you can remove 5 incoming stuns

>

> after removing 5 stuns , 5 stacks of Stability is gone.

>

> Let's apply this mechanic to Resistance

>

> If you have 5 stacks of Resistance , you can remove 5 incoming conditions

>

> after removing 5 conditions , 5 stacks of Resistance is gone.

>

> Resistance cannot stack duration

>

> Currently , all condi-builds are useless against Spellbreakers except boon strip condi-builds

>

> Reduce the amount of Resistance that Spellbreakers have access to

>

>

This would never work, conditions are applied at a extremely fast rate for this to be useful. They just need to significantly lower the duration of resistance spellbreakers have. They are way too durable not to be using a defensive amulet.

Aegis/Block.

> @"Pvt Frosty.6973" said:

> Lost around 100, was about 1950 now I'm about 1850. Tbh, it was my own fault, I queued solo and I queued during the stealth bug rampage.

>

> Personally I really enjoyed that they did what they did. It's refreshing. Though I raelly hope they do also tone down some of the specs before the end of the season. Spellbreaker is pretty unstoppable at the moment.

That's what's up. Good stuff man. Yea I mostly solo queue. I don't have someone to consistently pvp with me, I wish I did. Some of the new skills are a bit overtuned, but that isn't very surprising. I just wish they would of kept it in unranked until after the season was over. I'm looking forward to how these new elite specs will mature. There definitely seems to be more things you can do that maybe viable.

I lost around 220-270 rating. I was consistently hovering around 1620-1670ish. Now I'm down to 1403 and counting. Its probably impossible to climb back up due to the decline of match quality. I lost major respect for Anet dropping pof specs right into the middle of season pvp. Its the worst thing I've seen them ever do. I keep wondering what were they thinking? The only conclusion I can arrive to is that they really do not care about spvp.

> @eksn.7264 said:

> > @Aza.2105 said:

> >

> > > @Swagg.9236 said:

> > > People are probably annoyed based on how they are forced into passively playing a specific set-up just to counter some other builds that get to do whatever they want. It's a matter of one guy being able to press all of his buttons while someone else can't. No, it's not hard to counter a Scourge (debatable about what it takes to deal with a Spellbreaker), but the issue is that doing so is innately frustrating in how it forces a player to play in a certain way (or possibly just run because the build they chose can't win efficiently or at all).

> >

> > That's it!! People talk about balance and how you have to do this and that. But scourge nor spellbreaker has to adapt to a certain playstyle to win against any other spec. They just spam skills.

>

> There's a *huge* difference between a warrior in gold and a top 100 warrior. Yes spellbreaker and scourge are very strong, but if you think there's no adaptation or thought process playing these specs you haven't played actual good players. Complexity and difficulty of a class/build is irrelevant at high level. At that point it comes down to very small optimizations and knowledge of obscure game mechanics, and by definition optimization is the opposite of spamming skills. This applies to every competitive game played at a high level.

> @"R E F L H E X.8413" said:

> Thats kinda the problem with everything almost everyone is aoe or cleaving already. Standing on the circle during max players on both sides is like a death sentance with or without scourge.. Bigger points like the graveyard on the forest map helps some but not much I still fight entirely off the point most of the time when its a teamfight. I think you must really mean much bigger.

Yep I mean really really large. In vanilla the points felt small but it didn't feel intimidating to stand on them to contest. Particularly if you got a build designed to do so. Post hots damage went through the roof. I even tested something just to see, I ran scrapper rune set, signet of judgement, hunters determination, high protection uptime, knights amulet, retributive armor and I still get two shot by melee damage. This means something just isn't right with defense. Looking at the games progression, the only thing that really has been added is just more damage. Defense has remained relatively unchanged.

> @choovanski.5462 said:

> > @Aza.2105 said:

> >

> > > @Swagg.9236 said:

> > > People are probably annoyed based on how they are forced into passively playing a specific set-up just to counter some other builds that get to do whatever they want. It's a matter of one guy being able to press all of his buttons while someone else can't. No, it's not hard to counter a Scourge (debatable about what it takes to deal with a Spellbreaker), but the issue is that doing so is innately frustrating in how it forces a player to play in a certain way (or possibly just run because the build they chose can't win efficiently or at all).

> >

> > That's it!! People talk about balance and how you have to do this and that. But scourge nor spellbreaker has to adapt to a certain playstyle to win against any other spec. They just spam skills.

>

> rush>zerker stance>headbutt>arcing slice>rifle butt>gunflame>volley>gunflame

>

> that’s scourge dead ez. & it’s just my regular opener with zerker stance popped in

That is too linear to be a realistic and practical gameplan. At any time the scourge can dodge your headbutt. Making your burst non existent.

> @Swagg.9236 said:

> People are probably annoyed based on how they are forced into passively playing a specific set-up just to counter some other builds that get to do whatever they want. It's a matter of one guy being able to press all of his buttons while someone else can't. No, it's not hard to counter a Scourge (debatable about what it takes to deal with a Spellbreaker), but the issue is that doing so is innately frustrating in how it forces a player to play in a certain way (or possibly just run because the build they chose can't win efficiently or at all).

That's it!! People talk about balance and how you have to do this and that. But scourge nor spellbreaker has to adapt to a certain playstyle to win against any other spec. They just spam skills.

> @StarDroid.1038 said:

> This was a horrible move by Anet...

> AA monthly tournament right after PoF hits and now half a season with PoF specs with no practice time for new specs, won't even mention their state really...

>

> I guess they didn't disable specs, because of a "tech limitation" or in others words, there was no way for them to do it.

> Guess GW2 is purely a PvE game now since Anet disrespects its own rules of not making massive balance changes mid season, to this day I don't think I have heard of a single MMO leaving a PvP season on when expacks hits.

> I'm just disappointed in seeing how far PvP has fallen and will fall, because I enjoy this game mode and want to play more, but things like this are discouraging.

Exactly what I'm saying!!!! It was a terrible move. They could of easily ended the season sept 22nd as well, but they didn't.

> @mistsim.2748 said:

> but you really DONT have to fight Scourges and SB's on the point. that's what people are saying.

I know what people are saying and I'm saying its a problem.