Aza.2105

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> actually nah, pvp matches gives you 50% winrate, so you will be farming at a fixed rate if you are placed in the correct rating and playing at your skill (rating) level..

> while raid, if your squad is bad or can not find a decent squad, you can easily end up wasting hour or more time getting almost nothing

>

> also pvp since hot is more of a skill spam then outsmarting..

This is all true.

Boon corruption is a big part of why scourge is OP. But the issue isn't with scourge itself but the fact that nearly all traits, skills and utility generate boons. You can't even make a build that doesn't use boons. Because of this, scourge penalizes players because of anets profession design, not because a specific build they are using. If they change boons were they are infrequent and only show up when you build your character a certain way, then scourge's role would become more niche. The reason why it counters nearly everything is simply because boons are found on nearly everything.

> @"czerwoni.9563" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"czerwoni.9563" said:

> > > its not broken, most of the damage from a scourge comes from boon stripping, one user mentioned that as long as people spam boons then scourge will always deal a lot of damage.

> >

> > Well that is the problem. Everything gives boons, auto attacks, skills. Its pretty much outside of the players control. So they are being punished for something they can not control. Its actually very hard to make a boonless build because nearly everything in game gives boons.

>

> ya true, and if you look up boons you see that theres mostly scourge that converts boons, but remove that and what do you get?

>

> they could make it more targeted and not an aoe convert but still its just one class that converts them to conditions.

I think the solution would be to revisit boon application. Its too frequent, passive and attached to nearly every skill and trait. For example, if I want to use the strength tree for warrior. I'm punished because a minor trait gives might on dodge. Its not like you get to choose if that happens or not, Anet chooses for you. Nearly every trait line generates boons somehow for you doing something. Whether its dodge, a health threshold, block etc.

This is why scourge is a problem, because what its actually doing is punishing anets profession designs, not a build a player created. If in order to have boons you had to create a build to do so, scourge would be completely fair. Since it would be aimed towards certain builds. That isn't the case however, its punishing everyone just for playing. And you CAN NOT create a boonless build to counter it. Because something like that really doesn't exist.

> @"czerwoni.9563" said:

> its not broken, most of the damage from a scourge comes from boon stripping, one user mentioned that as long as people spam boons then scourge will always deal a lot of damage.

Well that is the problem. Everything gives boons, auto attacks, skills. Its pretty much outside of the players control. So they are being punished for something they can not control. Its actually very hard to make a boonless build because nearly everything in game gives boons.

Come on do it Anet! I remember spvp use to have bag vendors. Bring em back! I don't wanna pve for more inventory space.

> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > >As easy as it is to find the real Mesmer, if someone is unable to do so it is a L2P issues this late in the game.

> >

> > Ok, so its easy to find the real mesmer. So why is the health bar showing on the real mesmer a problem then?

> >

> >

> 1- it’s thematically game breaking as Nike states above.

>

> 2- it takes a couple seconds to spot the real Mesmer not hard to do. But those few seconds is what allows for bursts to be set up. Without them it would be too easy to pressure the Mesmer. The entire methodology behind Mesmer is to confuse the enemy and not be hit which is why we’ve lost things like retaliation.

>

The game has changed since launch. Yea their clones dying was suppose to be a "weakness" as well as lack of consistent condition cleanse. But that isn't the case any longer.

As the game is now, showing the enemy Mesmer health is a good thing. When and if they tone down burst, spam (offensive and defense), I'd agree with you that the health bars should be displayed on all clones. Until then, nope.

> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

>As easy as it is to find the real Mesmer, if someone is unable to do so it is a L2P issues this late in the game.

Ok, so its easy to find the real mesmer. So why is the health bar showing on the real mesmer a problem then?

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> Players should have to use skill to distinguish the real mesmer through positioning and movement - and this allows for some form of "pretending to be a clone" gameplay, however ineffective it may be.

Nice try. Mean while the Mesmer has stealth, evade spam, invul and block spam. They have enough defense at this point.

Being able to see the real mesmers health bar is a fantastic change.

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> I think it's terrible that people refuse to learn higher skill floors and demand that everything be nerfed to thier skill level rather than getting better... It's MMO, not FPS.

> MMO have skills and combo's, not just point and click to kill.

That is the thing, there really isn't any "higher skill floor" in gw2. For the most part all you need to do is run the build that does the most that has little to no weakness and thats it. A higher skill floor would suggest that its possible for a very good player using a unviable build like renegade to beat a newbie scourge. But this is not the case. Everyone should be advocating that the skill floor be raised.

> @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

>**only really hits harder if the target has no boons. **

What you mean is that it always hits hard because a player always has boons.

> @"Kong.3280" said:

> Just started "Tracking the Scientist", is Rox's voice different? Actor change?

I was just wondering the same thing. She sounds different.

Many players will say just dodge! Oh yeah!

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

>every challenge is a challenge worth overcoming until eventually that challenge is nothing more than muscle memory reactions.

Nah man, pvp is a hot mess at this time. I'd recommend the OP to go back to wow or play a moba. Either one is better than gw2 at this time. FF14 even had decent pvp in comparison to gw2.

> @"Razor.6392" said:

> Is "you didn't react in time" the new meme that mesmer mains are gonna vomit now? I play at 150ms due to location, so I guess I'm fully kitten and should submit myself to the 100-0 nuke overlords?

>

> :lol:

Yeah gw2 breeds idiotic players who would talk about you didn't react in time. The problem with this saying is that there is latency and there is human reaction time and the fact that it comes from a invisible target who might not even be in your camera view. These same players who talk about timing would not be able to consistently react to a overhead in a fighting game, even though they are VERY slow and you can see it coming. Thing is, you can see the overhead coming, vs you can't see anything from Mesmer burst coming. And oh, failing to block the overhead doesn't delete your health in one hit. Unlike failing to dodge a invisible opponent that deletes your health in one second.

http://www.teyah.net/MilliaBlocker_v0.3.swf

> @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> Dear Anet please bring back the old trait system.

> You guys want to bring back build diversity right? Now bringing back the old system will do that. The only thing you need to chance about the old system is, if you chance 1 point in a elite spec you can't choice any other elite spec. This would bring back build diversity.

I think the old trait system was better for balance, but for diversity? I don't think so. It was actually quite limiting.

> @"Crackmonster.2790" said:

> Hello Anet,

>

> As title says i just wanted to point out that you should be careful with split balancing. It is not to be used lightly as it fundamentally changes the feel and flow of the class in different modes - it should instead be used only as a last resort when normal means of balancing seems inadequate or it will result in reduced quality of the game.

>

> I have just noticed you seem to be jumping aboard this train but let me just warn you - abuse and the game will suffer. It is a last resort and should always be used as such, as ultimately the noblest design goal should be consistency in class experience when playing the game.

>

> Cheers!

No they shouldn't be careful. They should absolutely DO IT. Pve, Spvp and WVW are three totally different game modes. To a player who is dedicated to one, skill split is a must. A dedicated raider wouldn't want to see skills nerfed because of spvp. A spvp player does not want to see skills unnecessarily buffed because they were underperforming in pve.

The number one cause of most balance issues in this game is because Anet frequently balanced skills universally. Look at scourge, apparently fine in pve. But its a abomination in spvp and wvw.

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> I keep saying that thieves need some recharges in their weapon skills so they can't be spammed as much. But giving them recharges would completely break the pace of their attacks and make their initiative mechanic pointless. So it couln't be done.

>

It would become just like Rev's energy mechanic then.

> @"Jinks.2057" said:

> You don't identify with Guardian? kitten is that all about? You play the kitten class you identify with it.

No sir I am not a guardian.

> @"skyline.3286" said:

> I play primarily melee classes: Spellbreaker, guardian, and staff DD in WvW. I don't claim to be a particularly good player, and I lose to skilled players of all classes, but I've noticed that I consistently have a hard time against scourges.

>

> Is there a trick to dealing with scourges? Of course, I can just try not to stand in the red circles, but they're huge. Besides, the scourge is usually standing in them, so I can't hit them while they can still hit me. And of course in sPvP it's even worse because they can cover the entire point.

>

> I bring condi cleanse on every build, but it seems like a joke because of how quickly the conditions get reapplied. Resistance is less than worthless because it just gets corrupted. I've heard that I should be trying to CC them and burst them down, but since this means jumping into their AoE it usually means suicide if I don't immediately kill them (maybe I'm just bad).

>

> What should I be looking out for? Critical skills to dodge? Tips that I should be aware of when engaging a Scourge?

Not possible to deal with them as a melee class. Warrior can somewhat with their near perma resistance but that will be corrupted. Scourge pretty much shuts any melee down.

> @"Jinks.2057" said:

> you generally see this after privilege is removed...you hard countered thief for 5 years as a guardian. You didn't even need to be that good at the game to beat the best thieves in the game on a guardian. Now that steep of a hard counter isn't there you are dying in 3 seconds. This is a l2p issue. Go play a thief and learn how to not get rekt upon the mere presence of a thief in a game.

>

> Thank You

You? You??? Stop right there. I'm not a guardian. I sometimes play the class but I DO NOT identify with it. I'm looking at the game mechanics purely from a objective and design point of view. Not from "my favorite class" point of view. And that is the problem. When you are attached to a class, it becomes less likely for you to provide unbiased perspective. When I play this game its purely to test skills, builds and other mechanics and changes implemented by the devs in pvp. So when I say thief is busted its from a design pov. Yes they are busted and so are many other professions in pvp. That is the reality.

The game has never been great, its never been balanced in comparison to its predecessor. But its never been this out of control. If you could read old forum posts when the game first came out, you would see people complaining about thief backstabbing them for 5k. Even then no profession could delete a health bar within a couple of seconds. Now its the normal, that 5k backstab thief use to do? Its probably less than a auto attack chain these days. Would you not say that is a problem? When the health tiers are 11k, 15k, 19k. Its not unreasonable for a player to talk about how their health vanished in a second. Because its true. At this point its not really a l2p problem, its "Anet fix your game" problem. Damage all around needs to be toned down significantly as well as the rate at which invul and evade frames are thrown out.

> @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > @"XxsdgxX.8109" said:

> > > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > >

> > > > I am glad that thief is an anti bunker, will be even more so after the split hopefully

> > >

> > > Thief is anti every thing, which is the problem. It would be understandable if a build is designed to counter one thing. That is how the game should be. But thief builds counter nearly every thing.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Precisely, pretty much the first step to have a "viable" build is to ensure that it doesn't get deleted by a thief in the first 3 secs of a fight.

> > In other words thieves usually dictate what is viable and what isn't, has been like that for years and it's incredibly unhealthy for the game.

> > Both mesmer and thief are extremely unhealthy for this game's build diversity/PvP.

>

> Pretty sure the first step in not getting deleted by a thief in the first 3 seconds of a fight is to L2P

>

> Please stop confusing dying on a guardian to a thief in 3 seconds a build issue instead of what it really is. A L2P issue

There aren't many l2p situations in gw2 atm, stop pretending like there is. Because its shameful. The game is busted at this time, anyone with common sense knows this.

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> I am glad that thief is an anti bunker, will be even more so after the split hopefully

Thief is anti every thing, which is the problem. It would be understandable if a build is designed to counter one thing. That is how the game should be. But thief builds counter nearly every thing.

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"Psilence.2859" said:

> > > but removing Demolisher Amulet could also be a possible solution.

> >

> > That isn't really the solution. Since no other profession is getting this much out of demolisher amulet. What anet needs to do is make each profession have a different set of amulets. That way they could easily remove one that makes the class op instead of removing it for everyone.

> >

>

> This isn't that practical though, as the list for each class would have to be updated with each balance patch depending on how builds changed.

I'm sure that isn't hard to do.

> @"Psilence.2859" said:

> but removing Demolisher Amulet could also be a possible solution.

That isn't really the solution. Since no other profession is getting this much out of demolisher amulet. What anet needs to do is make each profession have a different set of amulets. That way they could easily remove one that makes the class op instead of removing it for everyone.

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > @"Auturgist.8256" said:

> > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > @"Auturgist.8256" said:

> > > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > > > @"Auturgist.8256" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > 2. You say you want to increase build diversity, and decrease the power of some of the more dominant builds, but I don't see a single thing here addressing the absurdity of Deadeyes' burst damage from what is essentially perma-stealth (something ArenaNet has been opposed to in principle regarding the design of the Thief since the release of the game, if I'm not mistaken). How does this happen? How do you overlook this?

> > > > >

> > > > > I main rifle, but I don't use Death's Judgement - I don't even use kneel unless I'm fighting a tower or keep lord and there are no enemy players around. But I have to play devils advocate here...In what world is the stealth driven Death's Judgement build considered a "dominant" build? I see more Dagger/Dagger *power* Thieves than Death's Judgement Thieves.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe "dominant" doesn't describe that very well, but there's very little counterplay to getting one-shot and it happens enough that I feel something ought to be done about it if you want the game to be healthy.

> > >

> > > I do not understand what you mean by Counterplay when you claim there little when it comes to a deaths judgement thief. There some few I meet in wvw (the vast majority are s/d and d/p when it comes to thief) and there plenty of counterplay. There certainly more counterplay then there is to a backstab or shadowshot. If you would play a Rifle DE thief you would learn this. It more effective to use the other rifle skills then DJ in very many cases simply because DJ can miss so often. For every DJ shot that hits there are many that do NOT hit. When you are on the receiving end you are not always seeing the ones that missed due to your counterplay. You only see what hits you and from that conclude there no counterplay.

> >

> > I mean you either succeed or you die. There's no margin for error or opportunity for correction; if you don't dodge the shot, you are dead. Basically, if you aren't prescient, you die.

>

> Well I am not prescient and I rarely die to a DJ. It has a lot of tells and ways to counter it. the DJ shot has one of the biggest tells in the game. s/d thief is much deadlier.

>

> Reflects, Blocks , using LOS all work against DJ in addition to dodge and various immunities.

Yes but that is just dumb. Because the enemy is working purely on anticipation. They don't know when exactly you will use death's judgement since you are stealthed. So its not really counter play in that sense. What you are saying is the result of the nonsense gw2 has created with pvp. Its not ok to be able to one shot someone from stealth. Its not healthy for a competitive game.

If I was in charge of balancing the game, the first thing I would do is add a -damage debuff upon exiting stealth with a attack or make it so exiting stealth with a attack automatically puts all of your skills on global cooldown accept auto attack.