Aza.2105

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> This would be light years better than what we have now. Why we have a boon that completely shuts down 1 type of damage, and can easily be maintained 100% of the time is beyond me. Return the condition damage to classes we had previously before the last nerf, then do one of these things:

>

> - Turn resistance into an attribute that reduces condition damage (but do not add it to any gear with toughness or vitality on it, we can't have god bunker builds running around. Players will have to sacrifice physical damage reduction to have this attribute)

> - Make some new runes that are directly focused on condition damage reduction & condition duration reduction

> - Add it to food/utility, but have done in such a way that sacrifices physical damage reduction. Aka, 20% of physical damage reduction is converted to 20% condition damage reduction for 30 min.

The same reason why weakness completely shuts down power builds. The difference is weakness lasts forever were as resistance is just a few seconds, unless you are a spellbreaker.

Skills are tuned to hit npcs who might have millions of health. But classes are either 11k, 15k or 19k base health. It makes no sense really and I'm honestly surprised that there was never any damage cap in pvp. But that probably will open up another dcan of worms.

> @Razor.6392 said:

> Overtuned af, that's the answer. I knew it from the very moment, shortly after PoF dropped, that a mesmer could inflict 18x confusion in 1 second.

Funny how you knew it right after PoF came out. But the devs didn't know after spending countless months developing the specialization. Sad really. Problems like this aren't even hard to see.

> @Morwath.9817 said:

> > @Genesis.5169 said:

> > I think everyone in this thread who's complaining about conditions fundamentally does not understand the game. Every class has tools to completely negate either the applications, the damage or completely remove conditions. And good players usually do.

> >

> > If your getting condi bombed in one rotation PUT. SOME. kitten. CLEANSE. ON. YOUR. BAR.

> >

> > We have the tools for them, if your running your right bar with no defensive skills and no condition cleanse YOU DESERVE TO DIE VS CONDITION CLASSES. You cannot readily negate power damage like condition so oftenly and with 1 button.

> >

> > kitten, i swear every god kitten bronze player comes to the forums and complains about condition damage with out even attempting to put 1 or 2 skills on there bar to remove said conditions.

>

> Condi cleanse isn't effective, if conditions can be reapplied again and again, but the real issue with conditions isn't fact they are persistent, but that they kill Quaggan as fast as Power damage, while they are supposed to kill him slowly. What is worse, they aren't affected by toughness, Protection nor Weakness, which makes many of us completly helpless... and even if you dedicate all your traits, runes, amulet and utilities to battle Scrouge and Mirage, then you're rather pounching bag for remaining 3 players on enemy team. So, foooooooo.

This is exactly the problem. You die much faster than a power build. Its crazy, yet Anet does nothing about it. I'm guessing they believe its fine. Scary.

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @Einlanzer.1627 said:

> > No, it's not that simple. I'm talking bout the condi balance paradigm. Right now, condition builds average around 36k dps vs power's 30k dps (which I know isn't a metric that matters to many people in PvP, but it's still relevant). Condi and power should both average around 30k DPS if you assume a low-medium armor rating (most benchmarking is done vs 2400 armor golem). Condi's rampup should generally be in the range of 4-5 seconds.

>

> Your armor values are wrong.

>

> The Average Kitty Golem (the golem used for benchmarking) has 1400 toughness with a combined armor rating of 2623.106. While higher armor values can be reached in sPvP by players, no meta build has anywhere near this much armor, since toughness amulets are rarely used in sPvP.

>

> Meta necro, ele, and mesmer has 1888 armor.

> Meta ranger, engi, and thief has 2029 armor.

> Meta guardian and rev has 2167 armor.

> Meta warrior has between 2167 and 2497 armor depending on health threshold and retaliation uptime.

>

It doesn't matter, armor doesn't matter much. You can have 3500 armor and you will still get near one shot by attacks.

> @Milan.9035 said:

> If they had same dps why would you take delayed damage that can also be completely cut off.

>

> Your telling them thwy have the wrong idea about how t9 balance condi. I think its just you dont want any condi builds in the game.

The same reason why you take them in any other mmo. They are fire and forget.

I found this thread from 2012 near the time when the game first launched.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/thief/Backstab-time-to-nerf

For those who don't wan to read, its basically lots of players complaining about backstab damage. I think at the time it was common to see a 5-8k hit. Anet went through steps to nerf thief damage output. Assassins signet was nerfed from a 50% dmg output into what we see now. Apparently Anet understood that large hits that can do so much damage in one hit wasn't good for the game.

Some may wonder....what does this have to do with today? Everything really. During the last 5 years base health has remained the same for all classes. 11k, 15k, 19k. But during the last 5 years damage has slowly increased. Conditions do more than the old thief back stab within a couple seconds and there are skills that can hit from 14k-22k. Which is well over doubled the lowest health tier. My point is something is very wrong and most people will agree.

Players do not have the health of raid bosses, yet the amount of damage that is being put out suggests that they should. Maybe the solution would be to double the base health tiers for pvp only. 22k, 30k and 38k. Support like FB would have to be toned down though. Also in the beginning of the games life span, boons weren't as common. Certain classes had low access to boons. While now every class usually has half a row of boons on them which are generated through skills and passives.

Its impossible to go back to what gw2 was in the beginning. So the question is what can be done moving forward which could have a positive impact on the game? I think increasing base health in pvp could be a positive start but that would open the door for other issues as well. On the opposite end of the spectrum, having invul skills or dodging shouldn't be the solution to not being one shot by everything around you.

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> I actually don't think that condi damage needs to be nerfed, rather access to condition application is what needs to be toned down. One of the reasons that these condi builds are pumping out so much more damage is because they are pumping out loads of damaging conditions, while _also_ dealing power damage with their attacks. And a lot of those attacks don't deal negligible power damage. So either reducing the condi application across the board, or reducing power damage significantly on skills that are clearly supposed to be condi application skills. That would do more than a lot of people think to bring power and condi build DPS in line.

Interesting suggestion.

> @Malafaia.8903 said:

> > @Alatar.7364 said:

> > Not sure about the Capture the Flag. It would require some seeerious tweaks, balances and New Mechanics, because I can already see Two Firebrands, one carying the Flag the other Supporting the First, just walking out of everything, everyone and everywhere with the Flag.

>

> I like the idea of Capture the Flag, but i think that it would require a bit more of what we have of balance, now.

We already have capture the flag, its called spirit watch and everyone hates it. I think its a good map though.

Both power and condition need a nerf in terms of damage out put. I agree with the op though. I think the main problem is conditions tick way too fast. The rate should be slowed down significantly. When you look at the base health of players: 11k, 15k and 19k and you consider how much you are getting hit for whether it be power or condition. Its way too high. You can tell that the damage is meant for npc encounters, since monsters exceed the health of players.

I remember back when the game launched, getting hit for 5k was considered overpowered. The base health hasn't changed, but damage just keeps going up and up. Which leads to the current problem in pvp.

Well the thing is its not like players intentionally create builds that revolve around boons. Its that nearly every skill and trait gives boons in some way. So you are being punished because of uncontrollable game mechanics.

Its ironic that initially guardian was suppose to be THE boon oriented class. Now everyone can nearly have a full row of boons with ease.

They might as well shut down the pvp section of the forums because its not like they really interact here anyway. The game is not going to get better people, its going to get worse. No matter how many valid or invalid opinions you post they won't be read and likely they will change things to how they see fit. The devs who cared about pvp are long gone and what we are left with is getting the table scraps of pve.

The amount of actual issues that gw2 suffers from is enormous and at this point unfixable. From the beginning of its lifespan gw2 from a pvp standpoint was flawed:

**Hard Crowd Control**: Fear, Stun and then Taunt

In a pvp game a player should never EVER lose complete control of their character. GW1 had knockdown but in order for it to be truly effective it had to be coordinated.

**Spam**: In gw2 there never has been any real consequence for blowing every cooldown you have since the risk/reward ratio has always been bottom of the barrel low. Even at the beginning of its lifespan people were spamming, because intellectual gameplay doesn't really belong in the game. The more you try to create smart builds the less effective you become. The game encourages finding a build that is loaded with everything which requires the least thought process and strategy.

**Lack of casting bars**: This has always been a rather short sighted decision. The reason according to Anet was that they wanted players to pay attention to the animations of the characters instead of having their eyes locked on cast bars. The problem is every class except warrior and maybe guardian moves weren't telegraphed. The problem has intensified in the last few years. Most of the time you can't even see what killed you due to visual clutter, AI, stealth and near non existent animations.

**Conquest game mode**: This was never a good mode, but it was a good way to hide gw2 poorly designed pvp mechanics. How? Well it makes it so that a lot of the focus is on capturing the point. Meaning builds would have to be created that have durability and sustainability. This makes it so having 5 glass cannon builds on one team not very effective since none would be able to effectively bunker a point. If we had a death match mode, what would happen is that every player would be a glass cannon. Things would die in milliseconds. A thief can kill a player in a second, so imagine 5 thieves focusing one target. The forums would be in a uproar asking for damage to be toned down. So in essence conquest mode is and always has been there to prevent this from happening.

Its apparent that GW2 pvp was a after thought and the primary focus was pve. Which is understandable, pvp is always the smallest population. What anet could of done was simply make gw2 a pve game only and make a "Guild Wars Arena" game which is only pvp. This could of been a revamped gw1 with jump and other new mechanics. Kind of like how there are different entries to the street fighter games that introduces new mechanics but the basics remains the same. I'm betting it could of been successful if they had done it.

The revamped trait system and HoTs elite specs killed it. Before that the game for what its worth was relatively balanced in its own way. AND devs at that time often interacted with the community. I remember talking with a dev in game about recent pvp changes and he asked my opinion. That was cool! Now we get the silent treatment because they know pvp is a lost cause.

What I observed about the game is that the key to success is to create builds that require the least effort to play. Its unfortunate because GW1 was the total opposite. Looking at the current state of pvp and the fact that there is no dedicated pvp team. Everyone should expect nothing or very little to change.

The best counter to scourge is to play another pvp game. The class design highlights everything wrong with guild wars 2: aoe spam.

So what happens if you are the players who have a losing streak, where they get 5 losses in a row. A single match is around 12mins and the match queue is 3mins average. So that's well over a hour of wasted time playing a game were you get nothing from. It would never work. It would make the pvp population smaller than it is now.

Nearly every player I seen AFK or troll was either because they get salty for losing or someone said something to them and then they decided to sabotage the entire team. But never have I seen anyone go AFK for rewards, not once.

> @Sororita.3465 said:

> Bring lots of cc, direct damage and condi-cleanse. With the recent reaper buffs, a reaper can beat a scourge in equal fights.

>

> Also helps if your class does not rely on boon generation. If it does, sorry.

Nearly all classes are pumping out boons regularly now. Its probably near impossible to create a build that does not.

> @ArthurDent.9538 said:

> Will never happen though. They don't do balance patches mid season not because they care about messing up the meta mid season but because they don't have a clue what they are doing with balance and don't want to bother trying to figure it out.

They dropped PoF elite specs right into the middle of last season. Anet can no longer use say they care about the Meta anymore, its just a excuse now.

So now people have something new to complain about since SB is nerfed. I think Mirage has a tad bit too many confusion stacks but holosmith seems fine. They have a very predictable rotation. The only thing I'd say is a problem is stealth, something needs to be done so that classes are visible immediately after hitting with a skill instead of a second afterwards.

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> Gw2 pvp is better than gw1.

You must be out of your mind.

The only problem I have with holosmith is stealth. Not sure if anyone else has the problem but when they stealth and do their burst it takes them awhile to become visible again. So I can never avoid any of it. Other than that I really don't have a problem with them, all over their animations are clear and deliberate which is great.

No one can defend this. Here are some details that aren't noted. The spellbreaker isn't wearing a defense amulet, more than likely they are wearing demolishers or some other dps amulet. You can even wear zerker amulet and get away with what is seen in that video easily. So....he is doing a successful 3v1 (he downed one guy) with a dps amulet. Can anyone really say that there is nothing wrong with that picture?

I can understand if he was wearing a defensive amulet and had no damage but that is not the case. Ultimately, what is seen in the video is just a representation of a common problem with the game.: The ability to be more than one role at once. Bunker, power/condition or roamer. What is really interesting about full counter is that the spellbreaker does not have to be a condi build to do condi damage. Because full counter uses the condi damage off the user who gave the SB the conditions. So SB can successfully bunk and be a power/condi build all in one, all while having very good mobility.

Further more is the passive regen, unlike every other class warrior does not need to invest in healing power to make their passive regen worth while and further more it can't be boon stripped.

> @Lighter.5631 said:

> > @Loop.8106 said:

> > > @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> > > > @Loop.8106 said:

> > > > > @Hitman.5829 said:

> > > > > How about you bring some boon removal sigils, traits, utilities instead of complaining about resistance. The condi spam is too much right now that resistance is a must for every class, heck I say Anet needs to do more and give more resistance to everyone because the condition spam is too much.

> > > > >

> > > > > You outman him 3 vs 1 and not a single one of you had boon removal sigils, traits, or utilities? Don't expect to go in PvP with out the right builds and win.

> > > >

> > > > You have proved time and time again how clueless you are. Everything from stating Guards (not Firebrand) has the highest stab uptime to saying Annulement is a valid counter to pulsing resistance.

> > > >

> > > > As for boon removal skills / traits. The 3v1 was War vs Double Engineer + Ele. Would you be so kind as to list all of the boon removal skills and traits those classes have between them? Nothing? Really?

> > >

> > > Why does Double Engineer + Ele need to worry about Resistance? (Spellbreaker does have too much Resistance access though)

> >

> > As seen in the video, one of the engineers is playing condition. The weaver is pretty 50/50 when it comes to power / condi. Meaning the Resistance is shutting down about 1.5 people in a 1v3.

>

> actually, logically, the weaver/holo just hitting without thinking, procing full counter which results in resistance and no landing damage.

> and yea, warrior use sigil of annulment before pof, when everybody spam stab/prot and there's no way around it

> see how fast spellbreaker melt after resistance ran out? if two people ran annulment in this 3v1, sb would be down before it began.

>

> but yea personal preference wise, i would love to have more boon rip and unblockable across all classes thanks

So you are saying you need 3 people with boon strip sigil to kill 1 spellbreaker? Gotcha!

Everything is too intricately linked for any real positive changes to take place. Everyone can assume that scourge and spellbreaker will be nerfed but you'll never really know. They might be given questionable buffs.

I enjoy creating lots of builds to experiment with but I'm going to be realistic and say that much of the game will be hard to salvage without a overhaul. I don't think we will ever see significant changes though, there is no money in pvp. At this point I'd play on a gw2 classic server if they introduced it.

> @Ferus.3165 said:

> that nerf alone would make warrior useless again because of perma chill and cripple. warrior without the resistance is a sitting duck and can't do anything when spammed with weakness cripple chill and blind

They could always buff dogged march. That's what it was originally for.