Elxdark.9702
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Posts posted by Elxdark.9702
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> @Zacchary.6183 said:
> > @Elxdark.9702 said:
> > Bugs so far:
> >
> > * Cursed Bullet doesn't work with rending shade
> > * Shadow meld doesn't proc surging runes
> > * A lot of no valid path/line of sight bugs with Deadeye mark
> > * Death's retreat path is bugged as hell
> > * Perfectionist has a 8s CD but it only procs once per mark, is this intended? if so why does it have a cd??? I consider it a bug.
> > * Binding Shadows goes on full cool down even if you cancel it or the target is out of site. (I.e. behind a wall)
> > * Shadow meld isn't affected by improvisation (tested myself)
> >
> > None of this has been fixed, I made a thread but no dev replies or patch notes, it seems this is spec is really **dead**.
>
> I'll put these up. I don't know much about the perfectionist one since I have not done any real testing, but theoretically it should work. As for shadow meld, are you talking about the One In the Chamber trait not procing Improv? If so that is intended.
I'm really confused about Perfectionist because it has a 8s cd but it only procs once per mark, so why does it even have a cd? it makes no sense **unless** it was supposed to proc again...
About improvisation and shadow meld, what I mean is that improvisation works on cantrips but it doesn't reset shadow meld, I just tested it. It did reset blinding shadows but shadow meld was unaffected, I may even upload a video if you guys want to verify.
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Bugs so far:
* Cursed Bullet doesn't work with rending shade
* Shadow meld doesn't proc surging runes
* A lot of no valid path/line of sight bugs with Deadeye mark
* Death's retreat path is bugged as hell
* Perfectionist has a 8s CD but it only procs once per mark, is this intended? if so why does it have a cd??? I consider it a bug.
* Binding Shadows goes on full cool down even if you cancel it or the target is out of site. (I.e. behind a wall)
* Shadow meld isn't affected by improvisation (tested myself)
None of this has been fixed, I made a thread but no dev replies or patch notes, it seems this is spec is really **dead**.
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> @babazhook.6805 said:
> > @Elxdark.9702 said:
> > > @babazhook.6805 said:
> > > > > @babazhook.6805 said:
> > > > > The OP listed the steal skills but the details of each skill do not match in game experience of the same in PvE or WvW. I have not tested PvP but see no indication the values different there. As such I will go with what I have observed rather then what the WIKI states. If people that PvP can in fat confirm these numbers different in PvP then it an entirely different debate.
> > > > >
> > > > > Old steal ports TO an enemy. This can be both good and bad. Many times it can not be used because porting to an enemy can land you amongst a group or in AOE circles. At the same time it excellent for chase down and taking persons by surprise with high initial damage. New steal has 1500 range which in this meta is a significant advantage in many instances. As example I can load a scourge or Guardian with conditions at 1500 range without having to close to melee and face those sand shades or those DH traps. It really too situational to give either the no port, or the port an advantage here. Certain buidls WILl want the port. Certain builds will not.
> > > > >
> > > > > The might stacks for steal warmth is 5 and not 1.
> > > > > The Bleed stacks steal health is 5 not one.
> > > > > The torment stacks steal resistance is 3 not one.
> > > > > The Vuln stacks steal Durability is 10 and not one
> > > > > Steal defenses The poison stacks are 2 not one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Further to that one can not ignore the fact that by traiting the DE spec in the right manner one can share these boons with up to 5 allies and apply the conditions to up to 5 enemies. This increases their relative merit when compared to the old steals exponentially. In theory steal health as exmaple can apply 100 stacks of bleed sum totalusing steal health. In thoery you can give yourself and 4 firends 24 seconds resistance via steal resistance.
> > > > >
> > > > > This would be very hard to pull off in game which is why I suggest just increasing the radius of peripheral vision to 400 would go a longw ayto pushing all the new stolen skills over the top.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You're right about the stacks but you're still missing the whole point, even if they were 20 stacks they will suck still.
> > > > why?
> > > > Because steal skills are actually **SKILLS** and not conditions/boons thing that Anet tried to do with Deadeye.
> > > > I'll say this again dude, yes in WvW you can basically perma stealth and throw your conditions or whatever you want from 1500 range and people will just die.
> > > > In PvP is a bit different, if you face bad players you will beat them whatever you're using I think that's the same for WvW but if you're actually against good players then these stolen skills are useless, a single condition and a single boon. No damage No skill No advantage against the other class, nothing. Just a single condition and boon.
> > > >
> > > > Nobody in PvP willl ever user peripheral vision even if they increase the range to 10000000, because it's bad.
> > > >
> > > > This and the mark being a cast time are the two major flaws of this spec, against **any** dp dash thief even the worst of them you will have problems, why? because steal is instant and when they steal you they gain stealth instead of fury and blind.
> > > > The same for other classes, guardian you do poison man poison... and get aegis kitten but if you steal a guardian you gain a 3s daze and a damage skill.
> > >
> > > No one will use given skills in PvP NOT because the skill bad but because PVP is an artificial environmnet where the number of players are limited and the game built around taking capture points.
> > >
> > > It is why virtiually every thief in PvP uses SB as an off hand weapon. That virtually every thief takes SB does not mean it the best weapon out there for a thief. It only means in that constructed environment it provides the best mobility for a thief to fulfill his very narrowly defined role.
> > >
> > > Please tell me how Throw Gunk helped a thief in PvP.
> > > Please tell me how healing Seed helped a thief in PvP.
> > >
> > > That these skills were little used or had little effect hardly meant a thief could not Pvp. That these skills were little used or had little effect still saw the meta for power thief in Pvp taking Improv.
> > >
> > > I have already stated that the stolen skill from thief was underwhelming compared to the old but a NUMBER of the stolen skills, as you yourself admit are BETTER in the new then the old. You can not get protection with the old skills. You can get DAZE off pistol 4. I sort of like what protection can do for me.I like being able to get resistance from a steal as there no other real source. How is it you can complain on one hand that Boons do a thief little good and than on the other acknowledge that Consume plasma is the most OP of the old stolen skills?
> > >
> > > Read my first post to you on this matter. I clearly stated you were understating the effects of the skills you listed. Getting the number of stacks wrong was exactly that and once again in your bit on the stolen warrior skill you indicated 5 stacks might would make the skill fine when it was already five stacks. So I am asking for consistency here. How can stealing a boon be Ok if it 5 stacks might but now not ok because it 5 stacks might?
> > >
> > > Lastly complaining that even if 20 stacks of a given condition applied it would suck.
> > >
> > > Why? The ultimate purpose of using a skill is to down and kill an enemy. What do you think will apply more damage towards acheiving that goal?
> > >
> > > 20 stacks of bleed.
> > > a 3 second daze off the stolen Guardian skill.
> > > Chill and a few k damage off ice shard stab.
> > > An Etheral field via thrown gunk.
> > >
> > >
> > > Now just as the new steal has a cast time SO do all of those old stolen skills. Those old skills could be blocked or avoided , the difference being the old skills were two phased (first the steal which could be dodged or blocked and then the use of the skill itself which outside a small handful could be dodged or blocked) while the new skills one phased in that you must dodg the steal.
> > >
> >
> > I stopped reading when you said healing seed doesn't help thief in PvP.
> > We play different game modes that's why we're both biased but I respect your opinion and if you think the stolen skills are alright then fine.
>
> You stop reading a lot when someones opinion does not match your own. That does not demonstrate a respect for anothers opinion. I read all o f your posts even if I do not agree with all of what you say.
No, I've read all your posts and to me they don't make any sense because you play WvW and I play PvP.
I stopped reading your last comment after you said healing seed doesn't help thief in pvp.
I'd love if you come to any pvp server I'll get some top players so you can duel them and you will see what I mean when I say these stolen skills are useless.
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> @Volrath.1473 said:
> Binding Shadows goes on full cool down even if you cancel it or the target is out of site. (I.e. behind a wall)
Thanks, I'll be updating the list everytime someone comments a bug.
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Can we make this thread as the main source of bug fixes for this spec?
Because so far I've seen 0 fixes on the patch notes about the insane amount of bugs Deadeye has.
* Cursed Bullet doesn't work with rending shade
* Shadow meld doesn't proc surging runes
* A lot of no valid path/line of sight bugs with Deadeye mark
* Death's retreat path is bugged as hell
* Perfectionist has a 8s CD but it only procs once per mark, is this intended? if so why does it have a cd??? I consider it a bug.
* Binding Shadows goes on full cool down even if you cancel it or the target is out of site. (I.e. behind a wall)
Someone told me that improvisation doesn't reset cantrips can anyone confirm this?
if anyone has more bugs to add please do it.
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useless stealth skill, slowest projectile speed i've ever seen and it doesn't even work with rending shade which has been a bug since beta.
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Signet of restoration waiting room
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> @babazhook.6805 said:
> > > @babazhook.6805 said:
> > > The OP listed the steal skills but the details of each skill do not match in game experience of the same in PvE or WvW. I have not tested PvP but see no indication the values different there. As such I will go with what I have observed rather then what the WIKI states. If people that PvP can in fat confirm these numbers different in PvP then it an entirely different debate.
> > >
> > > Old steal ports TO an enemy. This can be both good and bad. Many times it can not be used because porting to an enemy can land you amongst a group or in AOE circles. At the same time it excellent for chase down and taking persons by surprise with high initial damage. New steal has 1500 range which in this meta is a significant advantage in many instances. As example I can load a scourge or Guardian with conditions at 1500 range without having to close to melee and face those sand shades or those DH traps. It really too situational to give either the no port, or the port an advantage here. Certain buidls WILl want the port. Certain builds will not.
> > >
> > > The might stacks for steal warmth is 5 and not 1.
> > > The Bleed stacks steal health is 5 not one.
> > > The torment stacks steal resistance is 3 not one.
> > > The Vuln stacks steal Durability is 10 and not one
> > > Steal defenses The poison stacks are 2 not one.
> > >
> > > Further to that one can not ignore the fact that by traiting the DE spec in the right manner one can share these boons with up to 5 allies and apply the conditions to up to 5 enemies. This increases their relative merit when compared to the old steals exponentially. In theory steal health as exmaple can apply 100 stacks of bleed sum totalusing steal health. In thoery you can give yourself and 4 firends 24 seconds resistance via steal resistance.
> > >
> > > This would be very hard to pull off in game which is why I suggest just increasing the radius of peripheral vision to 400 would go a longw ayto pushing all the new stolen skills over the top.
> > >
> >
> > You're right about the stacks but you're still missing the whole point, even if they were 20 stacks they will suck still.
> > why?
> > Because steal skills are actually **SKILLS** and not conditions/boons thing that Anet tried to do with Deadeye.
> > I'll say this again dude, yes in WvW you can basically perma stealth and throw your conditions or whatever you want from 1500 range and people will just die.
> > In PvP is a bit different, if you face bad players you will beat them whatever you're using I think that's the same for WvW but if you're actually against good players then these stolen skills are useless, a single condition and a single boon. No damage No skill No advantage against the other class, nothing. Just a single condition and boon.
> >
> > Nobody in PvP willl ever user peripheral vision even if they increase the range to 10000000, because it's bad.
> >
> > This and the mark being a cast time are the two major flaws of this spec, against **any** dp dash thief even the worst of them you will have problems, why? because steal is instant and when they steal you they gain stealth instead of fury and blind.
> > The same for other classes, guardian you do poison man poison... and get aegis kitten but if you steal a guardian you gain a 3s daze and a damage skill.
>
> No one will use given skills in PvP NOT because the skill bad but because PVP is an artificial environmnet where the number of players are limited and the game built around taking capture points.
>
> It is why virtiually every thief in PvP uses SB as an off hand weapon. That virtually every thief takes SB does not mean it the best weapon out there for a thief. It only means in that constructed environment it provides the best mobility for a thief to fulfill his very narrowly defined role.
>
> Please tell me how Throw Gunk helped a thief in PvP.
> Please tell me how healing Seed helped a thief in PvP.
>
> That these skills were little used or had little effect hardly meant a thief could not Pvp. That these skills were little used or had little effect still saw the meta for power thief in Pvp taking Improv.
>
> I have already stated that the stolen skill from thief was underwhelming compared to the old but a NUMBER of the stolen skills, as you yourself admit are BETTER in the new then the old. You can not get protection with the old skills. You can get DAZE off pistol 4. I sort of like what protection can do for me.I like being able to get resistance from a steal as there no other real source. How is it you can complain on one hand that Boons do a thief little good and than on the other acknowledge that Consume plasma is the most OP of the old stolen skills?
>
> Read my first post to you on this matter. I clearly stated you were understating the effects of the skills you listed. Getting the number of stacks wrong was exactly that and once again in your bit on the stolen warrior skill you indicated 5 stacks might would make the skill fine when it was already five stacks. So I am asking for consistency here. How can stealing a boon be Ok if it 5 stacks might but now not ok because it 5 stacks might?
>
> Lastly complaining that even if 20 stacks of a given condition applied it would suck.
>
> Why? The ultimate purpose of using a skill is to down and kill an enemy. What do you think will apply more damage towards acheiving that goal?
>
> 20 stacks of bleed.
> a 3 second daze off the stolen Guardian skill.
> Chill and a few k damage off ice shard stab.
> An Etheral field via thrown gunk.
>
>
> Now just as the new steal has a cast time SO do all of those old stolen skills. Those old skills could be blocked or avoided , the difference being the old skills were two phased (first the steal which could be dodged or blocked and then the use of the skill itself which outside a small handful could be dodged or blocked) while the new skills one phased in that you must dodg the steal.
>
I stopped reading when you said healing seed doesn't help thief in PvP.
We play different game modes that's why we're both biased but I respect your opinion and if you think the stolen skills are alright then fine.
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> @Urejt.5648 said:
> I have much more simple fix to deadeye's stolen skills. Put 500 dmg (or 1000 if cant crit) on every stolen skill. Value becomes clear.
>
> PS
> Vault (staff 5) on daredevils still gives only 5 % dmg from trickery traits instead of 6%. Also it gives only 10 endurance instead of 12 from staff mastery trait. 20% value bug is a lot.
I'm done talking with the WvW guy.
I Agree with this, they need to increase the damage a lot.
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> @babazhook.6805 said:
> The OP listed the steal skills but the details of each skill do not match in game experience of the same in PvE or WvW. I have not tested PvP but see no indication the values different there. As such I will go with what I have observed rather then what the WIKI states. If people that PvP can in fat confirm these numbers different in PvP then it an entirely different debate.
>
> Old steal ports TO an enemy. This can be both good and bad. Many times it can not be used because porting to an enemy can land you amongst a group or in AOE circles. At the same time it excellent for chase down and taking persons by surprise with high initial damage. New steal has 1500 range which in this meta is a significant advantage in many instances. As example I can load a scourge or Guardian with conditions at 1500 range without having to close to melee and face those sand shades or those DH traps. It really too situational to give either the no port, or the port an advantage here. Certain buidls WILl want the port. Certain builds will not.
>
> The might stacks for steal warmth is 5 and not 1.
> The Bleed stacks steal health is 5 not one.
> The torment stacks steal resistance is 3 not one.
> The Vuln stacks steal Durability is 10 and not one
> Steal defenses The poison stacks are 2 not one.
>
> Further to that one can not ignore the fact that by traiting the DE spec in the right manner one can share these boons with up to 5 allies and apply the conditions to up to 5 enemies. This increases their relative merit when compared to the old steals exponentially. In theory steal health as exmaple can apply 100 stacks of bleed sum totalusing steal health. In thoery you can give yourself and 4 firends 24 seconds resistance via steal resistance.
>
> This would be very hard to pull off in game which is why I suggest just increasing the radius of peripheral vision to 400 would go a longw ayto pushing all the new stolen skills over the top.
>
You're right about the stacks but you're still missing the whole point, even if they were 20 stacks they will suck still.
why?
Because steal skills are actually **SKILLS** and not conditions/boons thing that Anet tried to do with Deadeye.
I'll say this again dude, yes in WvW you can basically perma stealth and throw your conditions or whatever you want from 1500 range and people will just die.
In PvP is a bit different, if you face bad players you will beat them whatever you're using I think that's the same for WvW but if you're actually against good players then these stolen skills are useless, a single condition and a single boon. No damage No skill No advantage against the other class, nothing. Just a single condition and boon.
Nobody in PvP willl ever user peripheral vision even if they increase the range to 10000000, because it's bad.
This and the mark being a cast time are the two major flaws of this spec, against **any** dp dash thief even the worst of them you will have problems, why? because steal is instant and when they steal you they gain stealth instead of fury and blind.
The same for other classes, guardian you do poison man poison... and get aegis WTF but if you steal a guardian you gain a 3s daze and a damage skill.
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I'm talking about PvP and the higher tier of it.
You can literally use whatever you want in WvW and it will be fine because WvW is terrible unbalanced and most of the people are worse than the golems in the mist.
Babazhok friend, I'm pretty sure you can try whatever build you want in WvW and you will be do alright.
In PvP is a bit different, yes in unranked and to some point in ranked you can play and try whatever you like and perform well if you're good enough but against good players, ATs and tournaments (UGO) they're useless and way worse than steal skills.
If you feel they are fine, it's alright it's your opinion after all but I'm aiming higher, I'm actually trying to make stolen skills compete against steal stolen skills because right now the new stolen skills are way way worse than steal skills.
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> @ZhouX.8742 said:
> > @Elxdark.9702 said:
> > Incredible to see the day where rangers were so used to their pets to do their main damage and crying over a clearly bugged pet that does more than a backstab steal combo.
> > Same happened with Bristleback and they nerfed it because it was doing crazy damage, smokescale does about 50% damage alone just from AA while the ranger just spam ccs on you.
> >
> > I miss the pre hot times where you actually had to use your pet to timing your f2 with your dps rotation, fear, immobilize, stun etc.
> > Now it's spam ccs and let your pet do the damage for you.
> >
> > Pets are supposed to help the rangers, not to do their job but Anet failed to realize this and look now, players crying over because they will nerf their main damage which comes from a freaking pet.
>
> You want to go back to condi spirit builds that bad? Or passive BM builds that bad? Sorry , the skill ceiling on ranger is much much higher than it ever was with those 2 disgusting metas for ranger. Sorry.
>
> Around this time too s/d thief was absolutely and utterly broken, you don't remember that though do you ;)
Passive BM builds were stupid I agree, spirits don't have anything to do with pets tho.
What I meant was for power ranger which I played a lot before hot where your main damage was your dps and the pet was there just to help you to land that damage.
Druid is totally the opposite, **you** help the pet to land the damage.
And now Soulbeast is a kind of hybrid where you and your pet do the damage but there's no way gazelle hitting for 5k-8k is fine, I'll start to taking screenshots because I know people like to see evidence.
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I don't really know what to say if people on this forum think 5 bleeds stack are good for a stolen skill.
I'd love to hear your reasons why you guys think stolen skills are alright.
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Incredible to see the day where rangers were so used to their pets to do their main damage and crying over a clearly bugged pet that does more than a backstab steal combo.
Same happened with Bristleback and they nerfed it because it was doing crazy damage, smokescale does about 50% damage alone just from AA while the ranger just spam ccs on you.
I miss the pre hot times where you actually had to use your pet to timing your f2 with your dps rotation, fear, immobilize, stun etc.
Now it's spam ccs and let your pet do the damage for you.
Pets are supposed to help the rangers, not to do their job but Anet failed to realize this and look now, players crying over because they will nerf their main damage which comes from a freaking pet.
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Because you're supposed to use rifle but rifle is so terrible that other weapons are better even though they feel weird.
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FeelsDeadeyeMan
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What about sigils? are you adding them?
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Title, probably another bug.
Please fix ty.
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> @Zacchary.6183 said:
> The new stolen skills would suck if Deadeye's Mark acted exactly like Steal. But it doesn't. When your mark dies Deadeye's mark gets reset. Secondly every new stolen skill gets more base condition and boon duration the more malice you have.
The problem is that they already suck, what I'm trying to do is discuss the problems and how to resolve them.
Also I don't understand what you just said, I said that I liked the duration increase idea but I don't like how simple and poorly the stolen skills are.
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Hi guys, I'd like to discuss the idea behind the stolen skills from Deadeye, address why most of them are so bad in comparison to the steal stolen skills and how to change them to make them compete against the steal skills.
I think the idea behind these stolen skils is a good idea, implemented really poorly but it's a good idea overall. Right you gain a boon/effect, a tiny damage amount and you throw a condition but the execution as I have said it's simple and poorly. I like the idea of the duration increase per malice though.
The goal of this thread is not to make them beyond op or broken but to make them **compete** against steal stolen skills.
If you haven't seen my other thread where I talk about the Deadeye spec you can comment here:
[Deadeye Elite Discussion](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/5664/deadeye-pvp-needed-changes "Deadeye Elite Discussion")
TL;DR, for that thread it's pretty much improve the malice generation rate, make mark instant and decay over time, also some buffs/changes to the trait line and rifle.
With that in mind I'll proceed to explain my own idea about stolen skills and try to make them **compete** against steal skills.
# Thief
* **Steal Precision**
Gain fury and blind your marked target. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Damage: 67
Fury (6s): 20% Critical Chance
Blind (6s): Next outgoing attack misses.
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500
Really? a 20s cd if traited only gives you a blind and fury, you don't really need the fury because thieves have a lot of ways to get it also you have Perfectionist as well.
I'm not going to talk about that damage, actually I don't consider it damage.
* _Blinding Tuft
Throw a handful of hair, vanishing in stealth and blinding nearby foes.
Blind (3s): Next outgoing attack misses.
Stealth (3s): Invisible to foes.
Number of Targets: 5
Range: 120_
This is much better in every way, yes it has a cast time but it's actually **useful** against the class you're facing up.
* **Steal Precision**
**Gain stealth and reveal your marked target. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Stealth (3s): Invisible to foes.
Reveal (3s): You cannot stealth.
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500**
Removed blind, fury and damage, added stealth and reveal. This is actually useful against thieves as stolen skills should be, only the stealth increases per malice.
# Guardian
* **Steal Defenses**
Gain aegis and poison your marked target. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Damage: 67
Aegis (5s): Block the next incoming attack.
Poison (8s): 536 Damage, -33% Healing Effectiveness
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500
Aegis and poison??? Seriously Anet come on you could think a bit more, incredibly useless stolen skill.
* _Mace Head Crack
Daze your foe.
Damage: 266 (1.0)?
Daze: 3s
Range: 170_
I can't even compare these two, I mean one gives you 0 damage aegis and poison while the other gives you good damage and a daze for 3s.
* **Steal Defenses**
**Gain protection and heal yourself. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Protection (6s): -33% Incoming Damage.
Healing: X amount
Healing Increase: 10%
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500**
I think this fits way more the guardian class, I know your idea about these stolen skills is that they give you something and you throw something but in some classes like guardian it makes much more sense to give you **DEFENSES** instead of tiny amount of damage and useless conditions.
# Warrior
* **Steal Strength**
Gain might and weaken your marked target. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Damage: 67
Might (8s): +30 Power, +30 Condition Damage
Weakness (8s): -50% Endurance Regeneration, 50% Fumble (Unrestricted)
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500
Ok fine, this one is decent. Weakness is always welcome but the 1 stack might is kind of useless it would have a lot better if it was 5-10 might stacks.
* _Whirling Axe
Spin and attack nearby foes. You can move while spinning.
Damage: 80 (0.3)?
Number of Attacks: 15
Combo Finisher: Whirl
Range: 1,200_
Good stolen skill, does a fair amount of damage and useful against projectiles also a combo finisher too, still much better than the deadeye stolen skill.
* **Steal Strength**
**Gain stability and stun your marked target. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Damage: X
Stability (2s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.
Stun : 1s
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500**
While this may be op in certain situations I think with the amount of spellbreakers this is pretty fair and it **makes sense** I think the idea behind stolen skills is that they give you someting **useful** against the class you steal from, Deadeye stolen skills don't do that and that's why they are worse than steal skills.
Damage is X but it needs to be actual **damage** and not the hilarious thing you put in the stolen skills.
# Revenant
* **Steal Resistance**
Gain resistance and apply torment on your marked target. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Damage: 67
Resistance (3s): Conditions currently on you are ineffective; stacks duration.
Torment (8s): 176 Damage, 254 Damage if Moving
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500
Resistance is good, torment isn't. It's only 1 torment which is nothing.
* _Essence Sap
Throw energy at your target, slowing them.
Damage: 399 (1.5)?
Slow (1s): Skills and actions are slower.
Range: 900_
Much better stolen skill, not only because it does good damage but it also slows the target.
* **Steal Resistance
Gain resistance and apply slow on your marked target. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Damage: X
Resistance (3s): Conditions currently on you are ineffective; stacks duration.
Slow (2s): Skills and actions are slower.
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500**
Slightly changes, removed torment and added slow. I see you wanted to make this stolen skill condition based because the steal one is power so I'll follow with your idea but this will be hybrid so the damage needs to be decent.
# Elementalist
* **Steal Warmth**
Gain vigor and chill your marked target. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Damage: 67
Vigor (10s): +50% Endurance Regeneration
Chilled (3s): -66% Skill Recharge Rate, -66% Movement Speed
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500
This is actually a good stolen ability it just needs to do **DAMAGE**.
* **Steal Warmth
Gain shocking aura and chill your marked target. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Damage: X
Shocking Aura (2s): Stun nearby attacking foes with an electric shock
Chilled (6s): -66% Skill Recharge Rate, -66% Movement Speed
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500**
But I do have another idea for it. I think shocking aura fits perfectly the ele stolen skill. Increased chill duration from 3s to 6s. Also, it needs to do damage.
# Mesmer
* **Steal Time**
Gain quickness and slow your marked target. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Damage: 67
Quickness (2s): Skills and actions are faster.
Slow (2s): Skills and actions are slower.
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500
Another good stolen skill, it feels weaker than steal because plasma is beyond op and they keep buffing it for some reason.
* _Consume Plasma
Gain all boons._
It's just insane, and the fact you can make it x2 with improvisation it makes look the deadeye stolen skill a lot worse.
* **Steal Time
Gain chaos armor and remove 2 boons from your marked target. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Damage: X
Chaos Armor (3s): Apply a random condition to nearby foes and gain chaos armor. Chaos armor gives you random boons and your foe random conditions whenever you are struck.
Boons removed: 2
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500**
Pretty useful right? And it's not op as the steal stolen skill it gives you an advantage that you need to use in order to beat your opponent.
# Necromancer
* **Steal Health**
Heal yourself and bleed your marked target. Healing amount and duration increases for each malice stack.
Damage: 67
Healing: 1,290 (0.1)?
Bleeding (8s): 880 Damage
Healing Increase: 10%
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500
Not bad it could be better but it doesn't fit the necromancer class at all.
* _Skull Fear
Strike fear into nearby foes.
Fear 0 to 200 Distance (2s): Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration.
Fear 200 to 400 Distance (1½s): Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration.
Fear 400 to 600 Distance (1s): Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration.
Unblockable
Range: 600_
Really good stolen skill that makes sense with the class and pretty useful in most situations.
* **Steal Health**
**Gain resistance and transfer conditions to your marked target. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Damage: X
Resistance (3s): Conditions currently on you are ineffective; stacks duration.
Conditions Transferred: 3
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500**
Resistance is always good against necros and you will transfer your conditions to them.
Neat.
# Ranger
* **Steal Mobility**
Gain superspeed and immobilize your marked target. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Damage: 67
superspeed: 3
Immobilize (1s): Unable to move.
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500
Probably the best stolen skill from Deadeye.
* _Healing Seed
Grants regeneration and removes conditions from yourself and nearby allies.
Regen (3s): 390 Heal
Radius: 240
Combo Field: Water_
One of the best stolen skills from steal, even with the cd nerf it's really good.
* **Steal Mobility**
**Gain superspeed and immobilize your marked target. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Damage: X
superspeed: 3
Immobilize (1s): Unable to move.
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500**
Just need to do damage.
# Engineer
* **Steal Durability**
Gain protection and apply vulnerability on your marked target. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Damage: 67
Protection (5s): -33% Incoming Damage
Vulnerability (5s): 10% Incoming Damage, 10% Incoming Condition Damage
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500
Again another good stolen skill but it needs to do **damage**.
* _Throw Gunk
Throw gunk at target area to inflict a random condition.
Damage (6x): 480 (1.8)?
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 120
Combo Field: Ethereal
Range: 900_
Underrated stolen skill but it does a good amount of damage and it's a combo field.
* **Steal Durability**
**Gain superspeed and apply cripple on your marked target. Duration increases for each malice stack.
Damage: X
Superspeed : 3
Crippled (10s): -50% Movement Speed
Duration Increase: 20%
Maximum Count: 2
Range: 1,500**
Simple but effective, gain superspeed and apply cripple, also **damage**.
So that's probably all I have to talk about stolen skills, as I said I like the idea that the duration of conditions and boons increase while you have more malice but the skills lack of diversity and thought.
Most of them are straightly awful in comparison to steal stolen skills and some of them are balanced, they don't even do damage which is really bad along with their useless conditions, they don't really give you anything to fight back.
I know it's a large post but it isn't a wall text, I just tried to compare all the stolen skills and comment my own changes.
Hope you guys read it and also if you want to read my changes on the Deadeye spec I linked it above.
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> @seanshine.8791 said:
> I stopped reading after the first 2 suggested changes.
>
> -Having mark with a cast time is balanced considering every stolen skill has zero cast time. Additionally, the fact that mark refreshes every time your marked target dies just lets you steal on a downstate body and spam the stolen ability for cheap and easy boons.
>
> -Learning to unkneel is a l2p issue. It would be nice if say death's retreat/death's judgement had a different color between when in kneel or standing though to easily check whether you're kneeled or not.
>
> I think you're trying way too hard with your suggested changes to make deadeye like core thief/daredevil. The playstyle is completely different with deadeye where you are rewarded with bursting once you build enough malice. The stolen abilities are actually useful for every class compared to only ectos and waterfields being useful for core thief.
Then you will not see this spec in any 5v5 or tournaments because nobody will pick it due to the clunky mechanics it has.
If you want to keep trolling ranked and killing bots that don't even use los then fine.
What I'm trying to do is to make Deadeye somewhat competitive against core/daredevil thief.
-
Hey guys, today I want to expose the major flaws of the Deadeye spec and the rifle weapon. This thread is only focused to PvP so please if you want to discuss or analyze I beg you to talk about PvP and no other game modes.
I've been playing Deadeye since friday and I've been having a lot of fun with a s/d build I made, but we all know this spec needs some drastically changes to be viable or at least an option for thieves in PvP.
# Warning this will be a lot of text because I want to breakdown the entire spec, point out its major flaws, the changes it needs and supporting those changes.
> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:
> So I was hesitating to respond to this since it's pretty late, but I think it's important for us to be clear on a few of these points.
>
> We do read a lot of the feedback on these forums, but *listening to feedback is not the same as acting on feedback*. Additionally *we do not have time to respond to every post on the forum*. I'm responding to this on my own time after work and the reason we've actually had time to respond today to your replies is because we are in a "calm before the storm" situation right before the game launches. I don't expect that we'll have nearly as much time after the 22nd.
>
> I think we can all agree that communication is important, but we can't spend our time here promising you that we are listening when we should be working to improve the game.
>
> Okay now that that's out of the way here are a few thoughts:
> * Cast time on Mark - Marking a target is intended as a commitment, and the added power of malice plus the refresh ability on kill afforded to Deadeye means that that some power balance needed to be made elsewhere.
> * Moving Breaks Kneel - Kneel is intended to be a mode that requires forethought and planning, but we want to allow you to dodge roll when attacks come in. There are players that use doubletap to roll, so movement breaking kneel is not an option.
> * Malice Generation Rate - Speed of Malice generation is something that ties very closely with Deadeye's power. We'd like to watch it more before making changes to it.
# 1. Mechanics
* Mark Cast Time
This is an awful design, the fact you need to cast your mark to the target you lose any kind of suprise, you lose the sense of thief, thief is supposed to be agile, sneaky.
"Hey look I'm going to mark you and then attack you..." even with with 1500 range, it's too damn obvious and easy to read. Also everytime you renewal your mark you lose all the malice stack, this wouldn't be an issue if malice generation wasn't terrible slow, but it is and it needs to change.
**Robert or whoever is in charge of this elite spec, I don't care what you do or what you nerf but we need mark to be instant, there isn't another way for mark to compete against steal.
Sorry but mark needs to be instant otherwise nobody will ever take this spec seriously in PvP. It also removes the stolen ability when mark ends, which is really annoying and it doesn't have any sense.**
* Kneel
Another mechanic that feels weird, clunky, annoying. The fact you need to press the same button to leave kneel makes your movement too slow and clumsy, it feels really good when you break kneel by swapping weapons but that's only each 9s.
**You can't say us that you will not change kneel because there are players that still use doubletap to roll...If you think a bit about it, when you want to dodge on kneel is because either you want to dodge an attack or you want to get a better position to shoot, in both cases you would want to be able to move after you dodge, I don't think anyone would love so stay on kneel after they dodge, it's so annoying.**
* Malice Rate
This is a good design, you stack malice while you do damage and while you have marked someone, right good. The execution on the other hand is bad, it's too damn slow for any fight you want to engage and finish it quick, fine you want us to be patient and wait for the malice stack to attack, well let me tell you that if we do that in PvP we would be dead before we even get the full stack.
**Simple fix, increase the malice generation rate. Also I don't know if is intended but you generate faster with rifle than any other weapon, if this is intended then it's a really bad design forcing people to use rifle as the main weapon kills the diversity the spec can offer, see Daredevil you can use staff, d/p, s/p and even s/d and all of them are good but it seems that with this spec you want us to only use rifle and delete the other weapons.**
# 2. Deadeye Trait Line
In my opinion the traits on the Deadeye spec are really good, most of them are usable also they fit for weapon sets other than rifle, but some of them don't make any sense and some of them need slightly buffs/changes to make them viable.
* Deadeye's Mark
Mark a single target to generate stacks of malice over time. Malice generates faster and increases your damage against the marked target as long as you have recently struck it. Lose all
malice when the mark ends or this skill is recast.
Malice: 3% Damage
Maximum Malice: 5
Duration: 25s
Malice Interval Passive: 4s
Malice Interval Attacking: 2s
Range: 1,500
_Changes :_
**Mark a single target to generate stacks of malice over time. Malice generates faster and increases your damage against the marked target as long as you have recently struck it.
Malice decays overtime when the mark ends or this skill is recast.
Malice: 2% Damage 2% Condition Damage
Maximum Malice: 5
Duration: 25s
Malice Interval Passive: 2s
Malice Interval Attacking: 1s
Malice Interval Decay : 2s
Range: 1,500**
The decay works basically as Adrenaline for warriors, if you keep attacking you will keep your malice stack if you don't then you will lose it overtime, nerfed the damage from 15% to 10% full stack and decrease the malice interval rate.
So with these changes you will be able to stack your malice faster keep it for longer fights, you lose some damage % to balance this change.
Added decay to malice, reduced interval, reduced damage, added condition damage.
* Iron sight
Incoming damage from your marked target is reduced.
Damage Reduced: 15%
_Changes:_
**Incoming damage from your marked target is reduced.
Damage Reduced: 20%**
Slightly buff from 15% to 20%.
* One in the Chamber
When you cast a Cantrip gain one new random stolen skill.
(Requires a marked target. Overwrites any existing stolen skill.)
Stolen Skill Uses: 1
_Changes:_
**When you cast a Cantrip gain one new random stolen skill.
Reduce Cantrip recharge by 20%.
(Requires a marked target. Overwrites any existing stolen skill.)
Stolen Skill Uses: 1**
Added a reduce to cantrips by 20%
* Renewing Gaze
Deadeye's Mark recharges if your mark is defeated. Gain regeneration during this recharge.
Regen (3s): 390 Heal
_Changes:_
**Deadeye's Mark heals you for a slight amount.
Healing: 1980 Health (0.6)?**
Renewing Gaze no longer recharges mark instead it heals you for a slight amount, I just put the mug healing for example but yeah between 1500-2500 health should be fair.
Also needs a new name :)
* Unforgiving
Your first attack stuns if it hits a newly marked target.
Stun: 1s
_Changes:_
**Your first attack stuns if it hits a newly marked target. This attack is unblockable.
Stun: 1s
Unblockable**
Added an unblockable effect, it's a really strong trait yes but with the amount of blocks everybody has, it's kind of useless, an unblockable effect is a fair buff.
* Perfectionist
**I don't know if this is bugged or not but you only get the boons once, so it doesn't make any sense for this trait to have a cd if it only procs one time from your mark.**
* Maleficent Seven
Increase maximum malice stack count. Time between malice gains is reduced. Perfectionist heals you upon reaching the new maximum.
Maleficent Seven (7s): 2,565 Heal
Increased Malice Cap: 7
Malice Gain Time Reduction: 25%
_Changes:_
**Increase maximum malice stack count. Perfectionist heals you upon reaching the new maximum.
Maleficent Seven (7s): 3,565 Heal
Increased Malice Cap: 7**
Removed the 25% malice reduction because we already addressed it on mark. I only increased the heal amount a bit because I don't want to make further changes due to I don't really know if perfectionist is working as intended.
* Be Quick or Be Killed
Gain quickness when marking a foe. Your power and precision are increased while under this effect.
Quickness (4s): Skills and actions are faster.
Power: 200
Precision: 200
_Changes:_
**Gain quickness when marking a foe. Your power and ferocity are increased while under this effect.
Quickness (4s): Skills and actions are faster.
Power: 200
ferocity: 200**
Removed precision and added ferocity instead, I think it makes more sense than having precision.
# 3. Rifle
What can I say about this weapon? literally useless besides killing bots in pvp, any normal people with common senses will avoid you through LOS and make the match a 4v5.
* Brutal Aim
Make this skill 1/2 cast time.
* Deadly Aim
Make this skill 1/2 cast time.
* Cursed Bullet
Fire a cursed bullet that tracks your target and converts its boons into conditions. Deals increased damage while kneeling.
Damage: 295 (0.7)?
Damage Increase: 20%
Boons Converted to Conditions: 2
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 1,500
Unblockable
_Changes:_
**Make this skill 1/2 cast time
Increase the projectile velocity by 100%
Fire a cursed bullet that tracks your target and converts its boons into conditions. Deals increased damage while kneeling.
Damage: 450 (0.7)?
Damage Increase: 20%
Boons Converted to Conditions: 2
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 1,500
Unblockable**
This is by far the worst stealth attack I've ever seen in thief, it doesn't do damage, it bugs out with Rending Shade since beta and it doesn't even hit the target because IT'S SO DAMN SLOW.
Changed cast time to 1/2, increased projectile velocity by 100%, increased damage a bit.
* Double Tap
Make this skill 1/2 cast time.
* Three Round Burst
Make this skill 3/4 cast time.
* Death's Retreat
Shadowstep backward and lose conditions. Poisons foes at your starting location.
Damage: 273
Poison (4s): 268 Damage, -33% Healing Effectiveness
Conditions Removed: 1
Radius: 180
Distance: 600
Combo Finisher: Leap
_Changes:_
**Shadowstep backward and lose conditions. Poisons foes at your starting location.
Damage: 273
Poison (4s): 268 Damage, -33% Healing Effectiveness
Conditions Removed: 2
Radius: 180
Distance: 600
Combo Finisher: Leap**
I love this skill, but first they really need to fix the leap path, it bugs too much and in too many places.
There's 2 versions of this change, either increase conditions removed from 1 to 2 and increase initiative from 5 to 6 or just decrease initiative from 5 to 4.
* Death's Judgment
Fire a shot that deals increased damage based on your number of malice stacks. This attack reveals you.
Damage: 696 (1.65)?
Damage bonus per stack: 15%
Revealed (3s): You cannot stealth
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 1,500
_Changes:_
**Fire a shot that deals increased damage based on your number of malice stacks. This attack reveals you and your foe. This attack is unblockable.
Damage: 696 (1.65)?
Damage bonus per stack: 15%
Revealed (3s): You cannot stealth
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 1,500
Unblockable**
Anet thought that nerfing Rifle 3 would make people use more often Death's Judgment but they failed to see that the problem wasn't the damage but the way to get that damage.
By buffing malice generation rate you're buffing this skill indirectly because you will stack malice faster thus you will use this skill more often.
Added a unblockable effect and a reveal effect to your enemy as well.
We have already discussed kneel above so this is all I have to say about rifle.
* Malicious Restoration
**Decrease CD from 30 to 25s.**
I don't really know how to change the utilities because I haven't used them besides Mercy and the elite, Mercy is really good and the elite is also decent.
I think that's all I can say about Deadeye, hope you guys come and discuss these changes, you are welcome to say your own changes/ideas as well.
**I'll make another thread only for the stolen abilities because they need to be changed as well.**
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> @"All Matters Fecal.9560" said:
> If it's quickness you want, Rune of Leadership fits the build much, much better. Condition clear is an issue with all the aoe condi and it's associated cover condis flying around. Mobility of rifle is garbage...not sure what you mean "get used to it".
If you use any other rune that isn't based on power then you will lose dps, I have tested it personally.
Leadership looks good on paper but you will lose dps, strength rune is the best damage output you can get using this build, if you really want more boon duration then you can pick surging.
Rifle mobility is not garbage, I may be wrong saying that it's better than sb but it's still really good for mobility, until they fix the leap path sb will be better though.
I mean you need to learn the spots and you need to use free camera+about face so you can spam it faster.
-
I agree, I may be wrong about rifle mobility right now due to the contanst bugs it has.
For escape/get away is way better than SB imo.
The Complete Rifle and Deadeye Fix Thread
in Thief
Posted
> @Zacchary.6183 said:
> > @Elxdark.9702 said:
> > > @Zacchary.6183 said:
> > > > @Elxdark.9702 said:
> > > > Bugs so far:
> > > >
> > > > * Cursed Bullet doesn't work with rending shade
> > > > * Shadow meld doesn't proc surging runes
> > > > * A lot of no valid path/line of sight bugs with Deadeye mark
> > > > * Death's retreat path is bugged as hell
> > > > * Perfectionist has a 8s CD but it only procs once per mark, is this intended? if so why does it have a cd??? I consider it a bug.
> > > > * Binding Shadows goes on full cool down even if you cancel it or the target is out of site. (I.e. behind a wall)
> > > > * Shadow meld isn't affected by improvisation (tested myself)
> > > >
> > > > None of this has been fixed, I made a thread but no dev replies or patch notes, it seems this is spec is really **dead**.
> > >
> > > I'll put these up. I don't know much about the perfectionist one since I have not done any real testing, but theoretically it should work. As for shadow meld, are you talking about the One In the Chamber trait not procing Improv? If so that is intended.
> >
> > I'm really confused about Perfectionist because it has a 8s cd but it only procs once per mark, so why does it even have a cd? it makes no sense **unless** it was supposed to proc again...
> > About improvisation and shadow meld, what I mean is that improvisation works on cantrips but it doesn't reset shadow meld, I just tested it. It did reset blinding shadows but shadow meld was unaffected, I may even upload a video if you guys want to verify.
>
> OH you mean that you use improv with multiple cantrips, all on CD, and Shadow Meld did not fully recharge while the other cantrips did? There could be an issue with the ammo system where it only recharged one instead of both uses. Might want to test it out to make sure.
Yep, on my test I used blinding shadows and shadow meld, it reset blinding shadows 3 times and never shadow meld.