Bast.7253
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Posts posted by Bast.7253
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> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:
> > @"Bast.7253" said:
> > But I imagine it's pretty hectic as it all seems last minute and unplanned.
> I mean, Anet stated back in February 3rd, just after episode 2 came out, that they were planning to do this. And that wasn't presented as a recent decision either. So we are looking at around late last year they had the idea for this.
Maybe! But I highly doubt this was planned as early as late last year given how soon that was after the Icebrood announcement when they insisted fairly vehemently that there was no expansion in the works.
And given the random fractal addition in the same time slot as a would be episode, after over a year of not touching fractals, it feels a bit out of place. Especially as the fractal itself wasn't actually originally designed to revolve around Cantha and was redesigned after the fact with no direct correlation to the current plot.
I'm also giving them the benefit of a doubt that they didn't just hype up Visions of the Past, (an actually really good story delivery method) only to have one iteration of it and then switch to a completely different format of story telling because they just... wanted to capture the essence of Season 1. Strike missions had a fair chance and I never really saw the appeal but they were significantly more engaging than this 5 man/solo instance dps golemn Response Mission content.
But yes, I suppose completely changing the format and not iterating on an existing system in favor of creating something new is par for the course for Arenanet.
I'm not really invested either way and am fine logging in every 2 months or so to check out the story progression so it doesn't really matter to me. Just had the feeling that little of this has been highly mapped out and wouldn't be at all surprised if that February announcement was before work/planning had even been done for this part of the Saga, or surprised if even with Season 1 in mind they still had a different idea for these releases and had to cut back even further. Who knows. It's just another 6 months anyway.
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In terms of The All, would the elder dragons really suffer from Tyria exploding from an imbalance? Or would they just live through it and keep going? And now that they have access to the mists, would The All being destroyed ultimately be beneficial to them somehow? Allowing them to go wherever they want, do whatever they want?
I don't know, but it seems pretty obvious Jormag is hiding something and seems extremely hellbent on eliminating Primordus. I'm just not sure if this is a ruse and they're actually in their own alliance leading us into a trap, or if it's Jormag playing a game to come out on top. As far as twists go, I'd say the biggest twist would be that Primordus and Jormag are working together to play everyone else. Given Jormag's constant push and manipulation into getting us to look badly at Aurene for not stepping in, (suspicious or not), I'm wondering if the end goal of such an alliance would be to force Aurene's hand and have Primordus and Jormag ultimately looking to eliminate Aurene as the one being that likely has the strongest chance of standing in their way.
I am interested in seeing more development on the effect of the absorbed elder dragons on Primordus and Jormag though. So far we've just seen hints of things here and there but now we're down 3 elder dragons and it seems like it's probably time to start delivering on that instead of occasionally dipping into it slightly here and there.
And the Braham bit was definitely interesting and will play a larger role. So they're either building up to him being a champion of Primordus, or he's being corrupted by the magic he used to ignite the bow, or his connection to the spirits somehow has given him the ability to sense elder dragons on a different level. Given that we've only witnessed it with Primordus so far, it seems like it might have more to do with Primordus either using Mordremoth's mind power (if he has that) to lead Braham to him, or he's already been tainted by Primordus and the little bit of corruption he may have is starting to take hold.
Only time will tell, but I'd imagine the story will involve a lot more action in the coming months than just Charr 1 bickering with Charr 2, which is a relief for me.
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I had a random thought about the bow. In the Vision of the Past we saw all of the stone dwarves being corrupted by Primordus.
What if the jotun scroll was actually infused with Primordus' power, thus why it was able to harm Jormag, and it's started to slowly corrupt Braham?
It is weird that they made a note of it but the only other thing I can think of is his stronger bond to the spirits. Perhaps this is leading into the spirits having a much stronger tie-in to the origin of the elder dragons and his connection is allowing him to sense them?
I had a half-baked low effort theory about Primordus being the Spirit of Fire that went rampaging, but given that Jormag is the twin I'm not really sure what that could mean for what Jormag's part would be in this in relation to the original spirits and Koda.
Frankly though, I'd say we're pretty much done with the spirits at this point so I'm leaning more towards the bow theory than his connection to the spirits.
But yes, you could be right. The next episode is called "Power" or something isn't it? Perhaps that power is Braham, vehemently arguing against siding with Jormag, deciding to attempt negotiations with Primordus and leading down the path of becoming its champion. I just find it a little less likely because Primordus hasn't really had any build up in terms of character development or personality... He just seems like a flaming rage monster.
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I think it's pretty obvious they've shifted the vast majority of the studio over to the expansion. It does make me wonder how many people they still have working specifically on Guild Wars 2 though, or have had for awhile that they have to ship the remaining people working on the live game over to it.
But I imagine it's pretty hectic as it all seems last minute and unplanned.
As far as this episode, I set my expectations extremely low and and to be honest it was alright for what I was expecting. The story instances were alright. They added some dialogue to touch on a few things we've been wondering about in terms of lore like the pale tree, touching on the dead elder dragon's magics effects on Primordus. They brought back a few people like Taimi and Gorrik which was nice.
Story-wise, it was a decent little play through even if it wasn't overly exciting but it's nice to get a break from the Charr story. I think one bad thing about the saga in general right now is that every episode is just Jormag being vague about everything. It's good for build up, but at some point it feels like we're going to be on the last episode and something will happen and it still won't really be that impactful because it's had TOO MUCH build, like snails pace constant dialogue kind of build up.
In general, it's pretty much what I expected though and I've pretty much stuck with logging in on release days and then disappearing till the next. It's honestly more enjoyable that way and I think it helped me appreciate this patch more. In terms of development time and the resources that went into making it? I don't know. I mean, I'm pretty content with the 2 hours it took me to do these missions and story content until the next content drop and will probably never replay it again. So if there's a lot of people with the same mindset then it's probably not the best type of content they could have released. But some of that could be mitigated in the future with more appealing rewards to grind for, like a new armor set, a strike mission tossed in.
As far as the Response Missions - not something I would repeat more than the first play through in the story. Long, relatively boring, rewards are laughable as usual. No interest in any of the recolored weapon sets or the new axe skin when I'll wind up replacing them all with near-legendary gemstore skins or actual legendary skins at some point anyway. Still not really sure what the point of the allied faction stuff is but no real desire to find out as I've done the story and don't plan on replaying the missions.
To those of you that are disappointed, yes, I get it. It's pretty dull, but they're fully committing to the expansion and the only thing you can really do is play the new releases if you're interested for the story and then take a break till the next and quell your expectations until the expansion drops.
I probably won't replay the older episodes either despite it being refreshing having voice acting again. I think a lot of us are kind of just ready to put this whole "Saga" behind us. :lol:
Honestly though, I would almost prefer a watered down vision of the past than this, but I guess that would take environment artists and more people that they have left working on the live game so it is what it is.
I think if you approach it from a state of complete apathy and just accept that the studio seems to be in a perpetual state of chaos (increasingly more so over the past 2 years) you'll find a lot more enjoyment. They probably had like 2 or 3 people working on this which is pretty impressive even if the content itself isn't overly exciting.
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> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:
> > @"Plagiarised.2865" said:
> > Do we know specifically that four are needed? Aurene is "special" and all that. I know you don't like it as lazy writing, but I feel its just as possible. We just don't know enough about The All. Or that The All and the balance of magic are, at least, related. After all, Sadizi says
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> Aurene is able to handle conflicting magic, which would otherwise result in Torment. Sadizi never mentions or hints about Torment.
>
> Sadizi talks about the balance of The All, and according to Taimi's research, a bare minimum of four are needed. And as we saw in Season 3, even though Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic and domains have been taken over by Primordus and Kralkatorrik, their spheres in The All remained dormant and inert.
>
> Aurene could theoretically absorb all the magic in the world and potentially be fine. But all evidence so far tells us that she cannot balance The All alone. And it's be foolish to give it a test run, in all honesty.
>
> "Yeah, I think Aurene can handle absorbing another Elder Dragons' power. She's immortal and magic doesn't conflict in her!" *-kills an Elder Dragon-* "Oh god the world's crumbling even though Aurene ate all of that dragon's magic and isn't suffering from Torment!"
>
> Not the kind of risk anyone with common sense would take. Canach may make a gamble about the world's fate as a third party, but even he wouldn't perform an act he is aware might cause the world's destruction if it doesn't work out.
>
> > > "Only then will the balance of magic truly become stable. Only then will Glint's legacy achieve its ultimate purpose."
> >
> > Or why there are six Elder Dragons specifically. We don't know exactly what caused the void, or the balance of The All. Does the system break down and collapse when there is not enough entities specifically? Or is it about how an entity acts within the system. Why would they keep talking about sharing the magic rather than hoard it? Or making it clear that Aurene is "one that can act as a kind of prism, separating and recombining all the magics in the spectrum."
> >
> > I'm just saying its possible that Aurene would be it. It is hokey and "she did because she is special!" feeling. But it is possible.
>
> There are six Elder Dragons - besides writer desires - because there are six Spheres in The All.
>
> As per Season 2: the Spheres are **NOT** the Elder Dragons themselves, but rather the Elder Dragons are directly tied to these spheres which represent some unstudied cosmic power. Some norn scholars think them to be spirit realms, jotuns called them stars, it's unclear.
>
> We do know what caused the void, btw - the death of Zhaitan and Mordremoth is what's being referred to. **WE** caused that void and caused the system to begin breaking down. So yes, it does break down and collapse when there are not enough entities.
>
> Sadizi's speech is a little weird because he jumps from past to present to past again.
I believe in the Dragonfall release guild chat they hinted at Aurene's ability to handle conflicting magic potentially being temporary anyway. So, even if she does hold all of the magic, ignoring The All, I'd have to think based on that hint that the original plan (if it hasn't changed by now to quickly brush through the elder dragon plot) that Aurene was never meant to be the be all and end all of our dragon problem.
Personally, while this would probably be difficult to pull off eloquently when the typical releases seemingly 2 episodes of mild build up with everything culminating in an explosive third, I could see them branching into the torment affecting her in subtle ways sooner than we might expect. Of course there wouldn't be time to fit that much character development in a 30 minute story chapter, but given Jormag's last dialogue in the Bangar achievement about Aurene not getting involved with Jormag and Primordus, insisting that Jormag just kill Primordus theirself, it makes me wonder if we aren't starting to see some of that torment/greed seeping in. I mean, it's possible that she just didn't want to interfere and has undoubtedly changed since ascension, but it seems like a bit of a shift of perspective.
In all likelihood, the effects of losing another dragon and tipping the balance further will have been drastically overstated and while Tyria may face some devastating effects in the short term it may be more gradual than immediate destruction. Giving them time to show the effects during the playthrough and following season of Cantha.
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More on the topic of Aurene, the only way I can see her being the sole carrier of that magic is if she's able to rapidly produce scions and can gift those domains and that magic to those scions. Perhaps that's her plan in the long run. And again, that could be either be torment causing her to want to have complete control over those domains and that magic or just be instinctive and presumably protective, believing that HER children are the only ones capable of doing what needs to be done.
And to be honest, she does look like she's roosting in a nest in Eye of the North. Probably reading more into it than I should, but it could be another reason why she's less interested in getting directly involved in the war between Jormag and Primordus. I know it's early and she just ascended, and we don't really know anything about dragon reproduction, but it wouldn't surprise me to have a reveal that she's popped out a few eggs.
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> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:
> Jormags nature is opposed to destruction tho as it us the elder dragon of ice and persuasion how can jormag. And the fact primordius is hostile to most life . So i guess out of the ed s jormag is the least hostile
Maybe, but I'd also like to think that Jormag's strength comes from cunning and playing the long game like a GRRM character. It may be just as hostile as the rest, but knows that relying on brute force isn't going to result in anything but unwanted attention and creating enemies that are more useful in the long run as friends.
With each introduction of Elder Dragon we've learned more and more. Our understanding of them has evolved and they've become increasingly complicated beings. But they presumably all suffer the same affliction, aside from Aurene who has just begun. If Primordus and Jormag are "twins" we can assume that they're the same age. As Primordus is usually the first to awaken it's assumed that he's always been the older, more powerful one. Which would lead me to believe the affliction would be just as strong with them as it was Kralk, if not stronger.
Either way, I don't think trusting any of the pre-Aurene elder dragons is in anyone's best interest.
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> @"Plagiarised.2865" said:
> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: Though I only see the later happening if they forego the whole need to have multiple replacements for the Elder Dragons (which is what will upset me).
>
> I see you bring this up a lot, Konig, but I still feel like they can make Aurene the sole Elder Dragon. If she circulates and shares magic rather than hoard it?
>
They could I suppose but it would go against a lot of what's already been established.
1.) Kralk went more and more mad the more magic he absorbed that wasn't natural to him. Aurene may be "special" but is she special enough to hold all of that? Say we kill off every elder dragon but her, that's Balthazar plus 5 other elder dragons magic she would be holding onto. Even if she somehow was able to "purify" it and give some off to the lesser races that's A LOT of magic she's giving away to the lesser races that they may not even be able to handle themselves without going insane.
2.) The domains that she's absorbed and her tie to the all. Can an elder dragon survive being connected to all 6 domains? Because it's not like she can pass off her connection to those domains to the lesser races.
I think long term if she remained at her current level, she would probably be fine for eons. But I'd imagine the death of just one more elder dragon may be the tipping point to lead her down the same path as the others, thus why we go to Cantha. One thing that bothers me is that they haven't really dealt with the current potential candidates for replacements, like the Pale Tree. While I think this is mostly because of Arenanet keeping the plot moving in one-direction, if we wanted to toss out speculation on in-game character motives... is Aurene not pursuing that because she feels she's fine handling things the way they are? Or have the effects of the magic already taken toll and she's secretly not desiring to find replacements because the torment has begun and she's wanting to hoard as much as she can?
If you look at the latest Bangar dialogue Jormag calls Aurene out on not interfering with Jormag and Primordus and leaving it to the mortals because there was "nothing to gain." Personally, I found this strange because before she ascended she would have likely jumped at the chance to defend the commander and others from a potential elder dragon threat. At least in my opinion. You could argue that there was nothing to gain because she knew killing them would create an imbalance, but her next line was pretty much "So you kill him then." Which shows that the death of them is obviously not a concern to Aurene. She just didn't want to get involved herself, and I have to wonder what the motive for that is.
I do like the theory that someone tossed out implying that Jormag and Primordus are working together though. To me that makes sense because they're each other's weakness. They fought in the past and it seemed like it resulted in a pretty bloody battle. Who knows what shape Primordus was in after that. Was Jormag the only one injured or was Primordus injured as well? Leading them both to realize that they're better off in an alliance than as enemies?
If all the others die and they are able to take over Tyria, they could potentially share Tyria in cycles as originally intended knowing that they have no equals. This goes against the torment and insanity bit but up until Primordus and Jormag we haven't really seen two elder dragons warring with one another. Potentially hundreds of thousands of years and they've seemingly been content finding their own corner of the world. What's so different now?
And with presumably all of the remaining dragons having access to mist travel now, why are seemingly none of the remaining as interested in consuming the mists as Kralk was?
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I tried taking a screenshot of Kunavang's close up to see if I could find anything in the reflection of her eyes, but I couldn't really make out anything.
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> @"Fenom.9457" said:
> > @"Bast.7253" said:
> > > @"Fenom.9457" said:
> > > > @"Kalythsu.8350" said:
> > > > That_Shaman revealed that there would be at least one other map (and I think this map will be divided into 4, one quarter for each chapter)
> > >
> > >
> > > I can't find where he said that, but I could see it. I could see a 4 part map that's bigger than any map before (at least twice as big as drizzlewood since it's the same concept doubled), but if the plot loops in Primordus, I could see 2 more maps, one somewhere random to deal with destroyers and another one in the Far Shiverpeaks to deal with Jormag, the Norn, Charr, and everything else this saga is supposed to be about
> >
> > Judging by the teaser of the next episode and the teaser of future releases after, it looks like we'll be getting instanced invasion events in core Tyria and a few in living story maps like Thunderhead Peaks.
> >
> > I don't recall Shaman saying there would be another map, but that might have been awhile back before the plans for this saga obviously changed.
>
>
> Yeah, I have to wonder if this was always the plan or not. The fact that the portal tome had 8 slots for 8 episodes (and at the time it didn’t have an EOTN slot, that makes 9) makes me feel like there was obviously SUPPOSED to be new places in every episode. Where would a portal scroll for this upcoming release take us? I’m sad but if they sacrificed these releases for a better expansion I guess I can live with it, though it’s not okay for all living world in the future to go like this
No, I definitely believe that. The second they announced the expansion despite numerous comments about how there wasn't one in the works I figured it would get hectic. Then they confirmed 2021 and I don't think there's any question they've had to shift things around. Not to mention some of the other things they've mentioned like the Legendary Armory, the lack of balance patches, the shorter and shorter story releases, the fractal in place of a living story release.
I'm not sure what they had planned for the Saga but I have a feeling they were going to dive a bit more into Norn lore and the spirits. Now it seems they've been concluded and we're heading straight into Primordus.
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> @"Dark Red Killian.3946" said:
> It is a little disappointing there is no new map because that’s what we’re used to, but that doesn’t mean we won’t get a new map in chapter 2, 3, or 4. All 4 chapters are part of the same episode, Champions, so it could be these invasion missions are the first parts of what’s to come, and we have to figure out where we are heading for the final battle.
The teaser in the second half of the trailer shows bits and pieces of living story maps as "future" content. So, I'm assuming 1 and 2 are spoken for at the very least.
We COULD theoretically get 3 and 4 with their own map providing a bit better conclusion to the saga, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm pretty sure they moved all the artists over to the expansion, as well as the balance team, and pretty much everyone they could. Even the destroyer models in this trailer are old and they're not even using the vine-touched/death-touched destroyers or whatever that we saw in Living Season 3. Now we've had yet another elder dragon die and they could have had the chance to update the models to reflect Primordus' augmented power from Kralk's death. But instead, we get vanilla destroyer models.
It's most likely going to be 6 months+ of current event style invasion events with the big shiny being new grindable skins thrown in here and there.
I'm assuming the part with Taimi is a story instance but I really wouldn't be surprised to see those mostly cut as well.
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> @"Tyson.5160" said:
> > @"Vavume.8065" said:
> > > @"Randulf.7614" said:
> >
> > > The problem with invasion angles if they go in open world is that they date badly. I've never been a fan of mixing timelines in map areas.
> >
> > I agree, going back to field of ruin is not an epic climax to the saga, it feels like going back to 2012 and 2012 textures, they need to add a new map during these champion chapters to finish strongly (I'm guessing they will)
>
> Could be a new map next chapter and maybe one for chapter 4?
Maybe for the last two. But this trailer teases the upcoming episode and "future features." The future bit just shows parts of Thunderhead Peaks. So we may just wind up with 4 episodes of invasions on core maps and a few weapon models.
I really wouldn't count on a new map at this point. All the map artists have likely been moved over to the expansion and they have the old festival/current events team working on the last 4 releases.
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> @"Fenom.9457" said:
> > @"Kalythsu.8350" said:
> > That_Shaman revealed that there would be at least one other map (and I think this map will be divided into 4, one quarter for each chapter)
>
>
> I can't find where he said that, but I could see it. I could see a 4 part map that's bigger than any map before (at least twice as big as drizzlewood since it's the same concept doubled), but if the plot loops in Primordus, I could see 2 more maps, one somewhere random to deal with destroyers and another one in the Far Shiverpeaks to deal with Jormag, the Norn, Charr, and everything else this saga is supposed to be about
Judging by the teaser of the next episode and the teaser of future releases after, it looks like we'll be getting instanced invasion events in core Tyria and a few in living story maps like Thunderhead Peaks.
I don't recall Shaman saying there would be another map, but that might have been awhile back before the plans for this saga obviously changed.
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Yikes.
More hyped about reading expansion details in a blog post than playing whatever this is. Are we supposed to be hyped about the "allied factions" joining us? Are they going to be anything more than extra vendors or npc's spawning in Eye of the North?
Seeing some Thunderhead Peaks in there so I'm assuming that's the reason for the instancing, letting players without the seasons go into older maps without having the older living story maps.
Curious how the monetization behind this saga will go after it's over. Are they just going to charge for the episodes with maps and open world content? I can't imagine anyone buying a bunch of solo/group invasion missions in core maps.
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Careful, expressing discontent will wind up with this post removed.
Better to just keep your thoughts to yourself and put your money where your mouth is.
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> @"Kalythsu.8350" said:
> That_Shaman revealed that there would be at least one other map (and I think this map will be divided into 4, one quarter for each chapter)
Really?
I wonder if they've found a way to make maps even larger now and this episode is going to be twice the size of our current living story maps? Would be pretty neat to see even larger maps in Cantha, especially now that we have such a variation in movement and mounts. Not to mention how little of Cantha could be highly vertical and how small it could leave some of those maps feeling.
Perhaps we'll be looking at the area surrounding Eye of The North?
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> @"Kossage.9072" said:
> The biggest worry I have right now is that the norn, the Spirits and Garm won't have enough screentime with the four remaining chapters of this finale. While I've enjoyed seeing the charr's actions being portrayed as an extended version of the "Fall of Svanir/Nornbear" arc from GW: Eye of the North, the norn do need some spotlight as well beyond what we've seen of Braham's guild and Jhavi.
>
> Realistically we should be getting some focus on at least Bear, Snow Leopard (to balance the involvement of the other two Great Spirits in the saga although I'd love to see masteries for Bear, Snow Leopard and Wolf now that Raven already has his own mastery line) as well as Owl (given the way the side quest with the shaman ended and how he intends to guide Braham on the spiritual path). We should also be dealing with the [prophecy](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Finn) regarding Knut Whitebear and his family that seems to have an ominous tone to it that could mean either death or Jormag tempting these descendants of Asgeir: "...and the muttering voices will call for his blood." There's also the [curious tale](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Howl_of_the_Wolf) of a skaald which was written down during a moot celebrating Knut Whitebear's birth, and I can't help but wonder if that poetic tale (about a norn who was meant to follow in Bear's footsteps but chose to embrace Wolf after finding a dead wolf mother and two weakened pups whom he nurtured back to health) is supposed to be a metaphor for a plot about the Whitebear family yet to come or if it's just some vague worldbuilding given that the Spirits often work in mysterious way via such visions.
>
Do you really think we'll even see anymore lore about the spirits? It feels like the original trailer for the saga may not be as accurate anymore and plans may have shifted after deciding on the expansion. With the introduction of all these new factions and what seems to be heavy Primordus involvement, I have to wonder if we're going to shift from the spirits and focus more on Jormag vs Primordus with a collection of allies similar to what we had in the previous season dealing with Kralk. In the past, I was thinking the spirits might come into play in dealing with Jormag but now it's seeming like we may not even be exploring that much more territory, gaining any new masteries focused on the spirits, or really having much more involvement with them beyond some passing dialogue with Braham about his studies/communication with them. (Without them actually being present.)
Which is kind of disappointing as I imagined this saga to really dive deep into the Spirits of the Wild, perhaps some ancient Jotun places, and more Kodan/Norn lore exploration. Full steam ahead I guess!
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> @"PseudoNewb.5468" said:
> > @"Linken.6345" said:
> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:
> > > > @"Thenme.6491" said:
> > > > and how would you prevent others from fighting it?
> > > > the best Arena Net have managed thus far is to let everyone who already entered fight keeping others outside, but no entering limitation
> > >
> > > They could simply flag that enemy as invulnerable for other players,
> > > Or they could make it invulnerable to everyone without a certain buff and only let the one party have that buff.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > So invent new tech when a 1-5 instance they already have nailed down work fine?
>
> Anet previously dabbled in instanced followers (that don't really do anything) running on a shared map. In (what could be part of an MVP) the follower looks like something else to and is still targetable by other players. Perhaps they have developed a system of fully segregated instanced player/party specific entities running on the same map shard where the player specific entities (enemies) are only shown and interactable to the intended players. In the future this tech could allow normally instanced content to be started by 'phasing' the player into it without pulling the player into a different server. Depending on the existing backend, such new tech could cut down on server overhead into the future.
In an odd turn of events we see followers with ai that's eerily similar to the rampant bots in pvp. :lol: I mean, that would be a bit more useful than Braham throwing up a dome every 20 seconds.
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> @"Fueki.4753" said:
> > @"Bast.7253" said:
> > So Jormag or Primordus one are going to die, maybe both. Makes a little iffy when you consider how much emphasis they've put on the magic imbalance. But it's full steam ahead for the expansion so it makes sense they're trying to amp up the dragon activity in preparation.
>
> I can totally see Arenanet pulling one prismatic dragon-shaped cover over that topic and have Aurene replace **all** other Elder Dragons.
>
>
They have seem to mastered the art of inconsistency, so it wouldn't really surprise me either just to push something out. But given everything it seems like is coming with End of Dragons I'm still assuming they have other plans.
Whether it will be the, all six dragons need to be replaced at some point plan, I'm not sure that we'll ever see in the franchise. But I could see some resolution in Cantha leaving Aurene and perhaps a DSD replacement that temporarily hold things together until some scions or born.
Though it could also be that Jormag and Aurene are left over on the right, and two dragons ascend to fill some slots on the left. Aka - Primordus dies leaving us needing at least one more replacement if DSD doesn't get killed to keep the balance we have now.
Who knows though, I'm just hoping they don't find some reason to kill off Aurene for good and that's one fear I've had about the direction of the story. I'd imagine they would have to find someway to siphon Balthazar's magic out of the elder dragons at some point as well.
The more I think about it though you're probably right. I mean, we haven't revisited the pale tree since Heart of Thorns, it seems like we're quickly moving out of the spirit of the wild lore, we didn't deal with the Foefire. The story has really been as narrow and focused as possible, and shorter and shorter. I really don't see them being able to resolve things with the current cannon without ignoring some of it completely or shoving in some 1 hour story episode in a living story season to hand wave something away. Not knocking on the writers because I'm sure they're more than capable. More knocking on the fact that resources always seem to be really starved and the game development in general seems to be a bit chaotic these days....
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> @"EdwinLi.1284" said:
> Imaging if the Truce only happens at the ending of the upcoming episode because Jormag dies the end of the episode.
Wouldn't be surprised, honestly. Tyria is on the brink of collapse already due to the number of elder dragons that are dead but judging by the plot teaser for this portion of the saga it sounds like something catastrophic will happen to them to "feel it across the seas" or whatever.
So Jormag or Primordus one are going to die, maybe both. Makes a little iffy when you consider how much emphasis they've put on the magic imbalance. But it's full steam ahead for the expansion so it makes sense they're trying to amp up the dragon activity in preparation.
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> @"Fueki.4753" said:
> > @"Bast.7253" said:
> > Maybe, but that would require a whole new system for keeping track and building up reputation. I guess they could use the bonus event bar completion mechanic or the achievement system to keep track of something like that, but I don't think it will be as grindy as wow's reputations.
> My guess is that it'll be like the Legion commendations in Drizzlewood.
> And to me, those felt almost as grindy as WoW reputations.
>
Oh, true. I forgot about those honestly. You may be right about that.
And if there aren't new maps and it's just "invasion" events then yeah, I imagine it will feel pretty grindy. Maximizing mobs, plus rng from commendations dropping, plus waiting on events to spawn. Having them tied to event completion would be even worse but that may be the direction they take. Hopefully we'll be able to progress from mob kill count though.
At the very least, it's only cosmetic stuff it seems so if it's too grindy I imagine they'll just see a large reduction in player activity until the expansion. Which won't be good for their budget and gem sales.
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> @"Linken.6345" said:
> > @"Fueki.4753" said:
> > _Tyria is full of people with different loyalties and priorities, but everyone is at risk from an enemy driven only by destruction._
> >
> > This could hint at them finally opening the Dominion of Winds and have us interact with the Tengu.
>
> Sounds like wow rep grinds if Im honest
Maybe, but that would require a whole new system for keeping track and building up reputation. I guess they could use the bonus event bar completion mechanic or the achievement system to keep track of something like that, but I don't think it will be as grindy as wow's reputations.
May be something more similar to the Heart of Thorns Itzel mastery where you just build exp, send a mastery point, and unlock another tier. Still not overly compelling but much faster than doing some tedious world quests or dailies. And it sounds like these reputations will be a lot less integrated into any kind of necessary progression and more for unique cosmetic items or something.
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I'd wait for confirmation from the trailer or something to say we're not getting a new map, but if we're not, then yeah that is a little sad but at least we've got a roadmap now and rough release date for the expansion.
It is kind of hilarious that they've already seemingly scrapped Strike missions and seem to be replacing the mastery system with somekind of reputation system.
I had assumed they had a large chunk of people already working on the expansion with the living world teams releasing what we've got, even if it's seemingly smaller content than last season. But if they're not releasing maps and had to move a bunch of people over to the expansion to help prepare then perhaps they had a smaller team working on it than expected and had already shifted a ton of people over to whatever their latest and greatest other IP is that will eventually get scrapped.
Kinda weird that these living story episodes keep getting lighter, and lighter, and lighter. But I'll wait till they're released to form a more solid opinion.
Just glad they gave a roadmap even if they haven't said a word on the legendary armory or wvw alliances or anything in months. Probably all stuff they had planned and then teams got shifted, cut, or they had to rework their entire pipeline for this expansion.
Feels like it must be a pretty chaotic place to work.
As to the reputations, I wonder what the benefit will be other than unlocking cosmetic items? Is it an introduction to Canthan factions or an introduction to new races? I'd have to assume new races are out of the question given the hesitation to add them in the past and the fact that it seems like the development team may be a bit smaller. At this point I'd be surprised to see any feature like mounts, gliding, or guild halls.
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I feel like the purpose of this thread is to address that they want to invest, but only if that investment goes toward this game. Which is understandable as it doesn't feel like this game is receiving as much focus as many would like. I for one have struggled to find any reason to login, much less any reason to give them money that feels like it will be spent on another project that inevitably gets canceled.
We have numerous features that were talked about months ago and haven't been given any news on. A rather large introductory coefficient nerf balance patch with the intent to implement more rapid balance changes. Hasn't happened. We've received ONE fractal in, what, 2 years? We haven't received any roadmap or talk about what's coming next, with only the vague understanding of an expansion scheduled for an undisclosed time next year. We've had long-term veterans of the company leave without saying a word.
We're not entitled to how they spend their capital, nor their plans for the future, nor their internal structure or development practices. Yes, covid this, covid that, covid covid covid. But ever since Daybreak's release in Living Season 4 it feels like the game has progressively received less and less focus with a few spoon fulls of content here and there.
I'm a bit of a serial monogamist when it comes to video games and have been playing this for 8 years now? So I have no doubt that part of the issue is me, but I can't imagine there aren't other veterans out there that feel pretty similarly. And despite the game being almost a decade old it still feels like it has so much potential. It's concerning to feel like it's fizzling out and fading away in spite of that.
Despite my grievances I still adamantly suggest the game to people that haven't played it. It's still got a great combat system, even if the balance attempts are few and far between, and has a lot of innovative features like mounts and how they have been implemented, guild halls (even though they were also abandoned), and stat swapping on gear which is pretty nice.
Crazy Braham and Primordus Theory (SPOILERS)
in Lore
Posted
> @"Teratus.2859" said:
> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:
> > I find it very unlikely that Braham is going to become Primordus' champion. It just doesn't fit.
> >
> I agree with that, At the moment I can't see Primordus as anything other than a genocidal living apocalypse intent on pure destruction and carnage.
> Tbh I don't want him to be much more than that either, I know a lot of people think that kind of villain is boring but personally I don't agree so long as those kinds of villains are given enough time to shine and show off just how dangerous they are.
>
> This is what I was talking about in another thread about how I feel like Primordus needs to basically go nuclear and utterly destroy us at least once before we kill him. Otherwise he'll be a colossal disappointment with no real build up, least that's how I will feel anyway. :)
> We kinda got something like that with Kralkatorrik and some might feel like it's being rehashed but i'm talking much higher stakes with far greater advantage us scenario.
> Killing Jormag, wiping out the icebrood and Frost Legion, wiping out most of our allies, severely injuring Aurine and completely nuking an entire region of the world which would make even Abaddon's fall from grace look like nothing.
> That would do it for me, Primordus by far the most dangerous and destructive thing that's ever lived on Tyria, that's what i'm hoping for :P
>
> > > @"Bast.7253" said:
> > > What if the jotun scroll was actually infused with Primordus' power, thus why it was able to harm Jormag, and it's started to slowly corrupt Braham?
> > > @"Teratus.2859" said:
> > > The Fire Scroll that Braham used to enchant his mothers bow could actually be an ancient Jotun weapon created with power harnessed from Primordus, that would explain why it can hurt Jormag and why Braham now seems to have some kind of connection with Primordus and can sense his Destroyers.
> >
> > Very, very unlikely, imo. A Crack in the Ice seems to more hint that the scroll is infused with the Spirit of Fire's power - which the episode also shows is capable of countering Jormag well.
> >
> > Plus, the method of the Stone Summit being corrupted is defined as their insides being liquified (this is even shown in the models too), so I think if Braham was being corrupted, he'd feel that. If dwarves who were literally made of stone and thus incapable of feeling heat could feel the burning, Braham would too.
> >
>
> I don't think it's the same thing as the stone summit, they tried to harness the Great Destroyers power to stop the Rite so they basically corrupted themselves.
>
> Braham didn't absorb any magic from the Jotun Scroll he infused it into his bow so I don't think Braham is being corrupted by Primordus but if the Scroll was created using Primordus Magic then Braham would be exposed to it every time he used the bow which could explain his ability to sense Destroyers.
>
> As far as the Spirt of Fire goes.. I wonder if that could also be just another name for Primordus.
> The Sons of Svanir have long believed Jormag to be the Dragon spirit so it wouldn't be the first time an Elder Dragon has been associated with a Spirit of the Wild.
> The spirit of fire is also deemed to be a hostile and malicious spirit as well so that kinda does fit with Primordus nature.
> The Kodan's Flame is also associated with the Spirit of Fire and that too has the ability to repel Jormag's minions as you said.. but we have seen this kind of relationship in the past as well with the Blue Orb repelling Zhaitan's minions and it's quite a common theory that the Blue Orb is somehow linked to the Sea Dragon.
> The Kodan also believe the Fire spirit to have gotten old and left Tyria a long time ago which could have been how ancient Kodan interpreted Primordus going back to sleep.
> I think there's a fair bit to support the Theory that Primordus may be the same being Norn and Kodan called the Spirit of Fire and if he is then it would definitely explain the kind of magic which is infused in Eir's Bow, or perhaps better to say the magic that has corrupted Eir's bow..
> Could lead to a shock moment down the road when someone (probably Ryland) tries to use that bow against Primordus and the Bow betrays them.
>
> If this theory does hold any weight at all then I also have to Wonder if the ancient one the Kodan believe to be their god Koda is actually the same being that Kralktorrik called Mother..
> Primordus and Jormag we now know are Twin siblings and Jormag referred to Aurine as little sister despite no apparent relation which was a little curious..
>
> I'm wondering if all the Elder Dragons by matter of status consider each other in some way family.. and the Mother being the one who they are all scion's from with exception to Aurine who would be at least a 3rd generation Elder Dragon.
> There's been lots of talk about this Mother being the original Spirit of Dragon which fits the Kodan beliefs about the Ancient one who created all the other spirits..
> If Mother is Koda then there is a sure thing that the Elder Dragons are Spirits which would definitely make Primordus the Spirit of Fire.
>
> Kodan also believe that the spirits are wild and destructive without the guiding influence of Koda.. Mother.. which also kinda fits the Elder Dragons.
> You can kinda see similar personality defects in other characters through fiction, Take Lucifer from the Netflix show or Supernatural as a prime example.
> Immortal, powerful angel with severe daddy issues and an immature, childish and jealous nature despite being tens of thousands of years old.
> Immaturity and jealousy seem to be common traits for beings that share that whole godlike powerful, immortal thing.. specially when the one being they consider above them (God/Koda-Mother) replaces them with more favourable creations (Humans/Younger Spirits and mortals)
>
> Kinda going off a bit there but I hope the connections i'm making are coming through :)
> I wonder how deeply connected this world of Tyria actually is, Specially when we remember that Humans are not a native species thus would never had had a spirit to represent them.
> Take us out of the mix and the vast majority of this world is more animal like species.. the Norn being the only Human like species that naturally belong to it and they are shapeshifters with animal forms.. plus there's the whole Kodan belief too that they are some kind of splinter faction of Kodan that lost their true path and devolved into their more human like forms.
>
> Could all be just as you said though, Braham just being more connected to the Spirit of Wolf.
> I've probably overlooked a lot as usual but this was a fun post to write regardless. ^^
I've had the same theory about Primordus being the Spirit of Fire. I do have to wonder on this theory though what that means for Jormag and what spirit Jormag could be, or could have been.
Though I'm really wondering if Arenanet really has any intention of diving more into Koda and the spirits moving forward. It feels like a pretty big reveal and they didn't seem overly certain about having anykind of origin story for the elder dragons after the Season 4 finale's guild chat. They could go with this theory, but I have a feeling they may go with something else entirely if they even dive that deeply.
But I also wonder if they may eventually play on an imprisonment plot at some point. Say, right now we believe that Tyria requires all of these dragons to hold the balance. Jormag is telling us the balance is a lie, which is probably a lie in itself. But what if it isn't?
What if it isn't some mystical force like The All that causes the planet to unravel, or the magical imbalance, but something more sentient? What if, though this does have a lot of similarity to WoW, they're essentially jailers keeping some larger force at bay that grows stronger and stronger with each dragon's death?
Whether that be a 7th original elder dragon or some other force we haven't seen.
I guess it boils down to how ready Arenanet is to put the dragon plot behind them and move on to something else. If End of Dragons is truly the end of the current malevolent dragon cycle as we know it and the rebirth of something new, then we may see some of these things resolved. If not, they may lightly touch on it and save it for a later date as an ace up their sleeve. They'd also have to be pretty confident about the narrative they had moving forward in comparison to the Elder Dragons we have now. If you look at WoW for example everyone always thought Sargeras was the be all and end all of cosmic baddies. Next thing you know we have another realm with the revelation that there are beings even older than Sargeras. At one point does that end though? Because eventually you're going to run out of possibilities, especially in an mmo-style story telling experience.