TeeracK.3601

> @"Fueki.4753" said: > > @"TeeracK.3601" said: > > Well that's not exactly correct. A lot of centaur are warmongers but others are more peaceful. The different centaur tribes have very different philosophy and some of the tribes do value peace. We met a friend tribe back in drytop. I wouldn't think centaur changing their attitudes would be any different from the flame legion suddenly being the most noble char legion in IBS. > > The Centaurs in the trailer were warmongering and slavering centaurs. > We have seen the human slaves in the trailer. > If the trailer had referred to peaceful Centaurs, there wouldn't have been slaves. > > > If we got centaurs it would have been both most likely since they were already set up to be an allied faction they probably would have had them as an enemy but with some of them as our allies. We fought evil charr and had charr allies, evil dwarf and had dwarf allies, evil norn and had norn allies, etc.

> @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > @"Randulf.7614" said: > > The ls3 model had me wondering if they were going with a more salamander style shape. They did hint at retconning the GW1 model by saying that may not have been Primordus so I think it’ll be a unique shape if we see it in full > > They also took that back later on when they realized we weren't going to accept that kitten. I think after Drakkar they proved they are more then willing to greatly shake up the gw1 appearance of things when it comes to the dragons. The head we saw in S3 already looked a lot different from what we saw in GW1. Plus dragons are clearly able to evolve and change shape as they get more magic so it wouldnt even be an issue lore wise.

> @"Randulf.7614" said: > The thing is, Krytan Centaurs suddenly joining Humans and other races after years of xenophobia and no lead in would be even more jarring. People are already criticising the recent releases for rushing through dialogue and plot points too quickly as some kind of tick box exercise. If Centaurs suddnely became an allied faction, then that would really give fuel to that. > > When I saw them in the trailer, I had expected them to be more of a flavour in a map out that way. Something to give a map a bit of extra layering instead of fully focussed on just the icebrood. But, that never came to pass. Well that's not exactly correct. A lot of centaur are warmongers but others are more peaceful. The different centaur tribes have very different philosophy and some of the tribes do value peace. We met a friend tribe back in drytop. I wouldn't think centaur changing their attitudes would be any different from the flame legion suddenly being the most noble char legion in IBS.

Considering all the wardens maybe one of them went to cantha to do something in echovale. There was all the staff, axe, and sword masters from HoT and they were meant to be a bigger deal then they were we kept fighting through the expansion. We did a bit but we didnt get much story about them. Only the sword master do they suggest was a sylvari from the pact when you do the event in the top left of VB. Wouldnt shock me if the two missing firstborn could have been the two unnamed ones.

I think this theory that a dragon ate Lyssa could also work with the DSD. It could explain why Lyssa gained the domain of water or been more of a foreshadowing thing for this. It would make the Priestess of Lyssa quote make sense. A conflict between Balthazar and the DSD at the Battle Isles would also be a great story beat. Part of why I say this is because the DSD is the most mysterious hidden dragon and looking back at some of it's old concept art it kind of reminds me a bit of Lyssa.  there is also the ying yang looking water dragon in the new EoD logo that sort of themes up nice with Lyssa's whole two sided coin kind of thing.

I liked him. I think a lot of people got confused and thought he stole our glory not realizing the two different roles of the commander and trahearne. His whole thing was he was an explorer scholar and well connected even with non playable races. He united the pact and brought everyone together even the commander. the commander was the pact's greats weapon but trahearne was its common link that brought it together so it made sense for them to want him as the leader.

tied around the neck of the deep sea dragon as a trophy.

> @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > @"LSD.4673" said: > > Sylvari's the only racial story that's interested me. It's a real shame how these plot threads have been cast aside. It honestly seems like sylvari are done with now. > > Not just the two missing firstborns, but what about the rest of the firstborns themselves? > > So much wasted potential. The original plan for HoT must have been great. > > Obviously not if it was so quickly cast aside. Maybe it had good ideas, but failed to create a good narrative with them. I've honestly always thought the early story of the game got ruined by big changes. I think people hated underwater stuff so much they cut whole zones and likely had to change the story so much. I felt like with the pirate them, season 1 starting with the karka, looking at the water map left of LA that was cut, and at least 2 other mate rmaps that got cut. It just seemed to me in its original concept we were going to start with the DSD after Zaitan, but they ended up shuffling dragons around because of backlash about water combat. Even the end of season 1 cinematic with the vines destroying the pact ships seemed like it could have originally been conceptualized to be tentacles coming out of the sea instead of vines out of a forest, but i guess will never know the original plan/vision for the game.

> @"Stephen.6312" said: > > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > How would either manage to do this to Lyssa when the Six left Tyria centuries before the latest Dragon rising? > > I genuinely feel that there is something up with the timeline with which we have been presented. This forum hasn't spent enough time investigating the Mouvelian Calendar's idiosyncrasies to be able to articulate details about it that are, presently, largely grasped intuitively. > > Knowledgeable members of the lore community will remember that the Risen Priestess of Lyssa states that her "goddess was mere prey for the dragon". The priestess uses the past tense. She also states that Zaithan "devoured" the gods. So how does that work, given the timeline presented to us? It's tempting, downright easy, to dismiss it all as lies. Those who hear the priestess are divided about her truthfulness. The open-minded are prepared to question whether the priestess is telling the truth. Others are unwilling to even entertain the idea that she might be candid. But what if the priestess *is* telling the truth From a storytelling perspective, this is the only option presented to us that allows for the development of any further storylines. > > I'm not saying that I believe Teerack's theory is accurate enough to be reliable. But it's a good attempt. No one has ever really pursued angles like this before, certainly no one that I know of. I feel like the dev's did a great job making it clear that the gods lie. Siren's landing and all the statues of Abaddon in the middle of Orr throw a big wrench in the idea that Abbadon was a forgotten god. I think if the human gods were willing to punish Abbadon and then change the memories of humanity it shows more then anything that the human gods are willing to lie. The fact Dwayna loved a mortal and the fact Balthazar went mad also further shows the how these beings are less then perfect and emotional beings so they are not always benevolent. Even stepping away from the gods looking at the tombs we found about the Murssat i think the dev's like to play around with the idea that the winners write history and we don't really know the full story. If the gods took a big step back when they sense the return of Abbadon because they were scared of making another desolation. It was kind of implied they were still watching over the world until the rising of the dragons by kormir in pof. It wouldn't shock me if at one point the gods decided to give taking care of them a try when they watched the movement of the world and failed making them decided to completely leave the world.

> @"Fenom.9457" said: > > @"Stephen.6312" said: > > They might've eaten Lyssa. The best thing about your speculation is that you're trying to fit Lyssa in. Whatever question we ask, or theory we propose, can't hurt to do so. > > > > Thumbs up, mate. > > > On the one hand I agree, on the other maybe it’s better not to fit her in. After the dragon plot is concluded, her story can lead us into a larger gods storyline with the 4th xpac. Something like: > > End of Dragons > > Season 6/Saga 2 in Cantha (so much space to cover in maps and so much going on there it’ll need another season) > > Then, either another season with lyssa leading into the fourth expansion, or the fourth expansion right from the end of 6 (similar to how 3 led into PoF without having much to do with the plot of PoF before the very end), and wrap it up in a season following the expansion. At least, I’m assuming the first post dragons plot will be about the human gods since they set stuff up a while back, not to mention there’s unused ideas from GW1 That can still happen. I would think if the Dragons were gone Dwayna, Malandru, Kormir, and Grenth would like to return. Half of the remaining gods are human after all.

> @"Fenom.9457" said: > It’s crazy, but you never know. I mean I don’t think they actually ate them, that would be weird and incredibly cringey. But the idea of them consuming her magic and killing her isn’t terrible. I think there are more likely (and better?) options for her story but that’s possible A a conflict with the gods pre pof with the dragons like this could also maybe explain the weird thing in the movement of the world where they state Lyssa also gains power over water. Maybe in that same fight they also absorbed away Komir's domain of water and that is why all of Jorma's minions just swim through ice and a large part of the far shiver peaks is now water.

> @"Fenom.9457" said: > I really like this! Tengu has been a long and complicated discussion over the years but I think this version would be a pretty reasonable solution. What really excites me is the idea of a globetrotting living world like season 3, where we get coastal maps that have increasingly more water as anet improves and expands upon underwater content, followed by a deep sea dragon expansion in the unending ocean with features like a handful of underwater mounts, new underwater legendaries, and elite specs built from the ground up to work underwater (but still work on land too). I would like to see it take place much farther out to sea that you put your maps (the majority of the maps taking place in the large stretch of water south of the fire islands), but I really love your idea of the dragon vortex. I also really like the idea that zhaitain isn’t fully dead. People tend to bash on resurrecting dead characters unless it’s handled carefully and done really, really well, but if anyone should be allowed to come back it’s the dragon of death. It would even make sense to say we did kill him, but he’s able to resurrect if his body isn’t destroyed. Seeing as he’s still gravely injured it wouldn’t be a full length storyline to kill him, but it would allow anet to take another stab at making him feel like an epic threat on a level with the other dragons. yeah if there was an version of the world map that was updated to Cantha i probably would have included far out places like the battle isles, but I've also wanted all of central tyria to finally be complete. Since the start of IBS I've thought if we did do a DSD expansion the battle islands would be the perfect hub like the way we stage things now in the Eye of the North. A raid location could also be south of dragonstand on the little peninsula to finally finish up the region. I also had to keep in mind the locations needed to make sense for the people of Tryia to be aware of what was going on and care enough to do something about it. If it was all off in the middle of the ocean would anyone know or even care? As of now the races of Tyria doesnt even know of the DSD outside of some private speculation by priory scholars. I was also thinking as part of this storyline as well we could have the Lagos show up in force to help us get their revenge on the DSD. Kind of like how in HoTs we allied with the Itzel , Nuhoch, and Exalted. It be the same sort of thing but way more fleshed out since it be across multiple zones. Was also thinking if the pact fleet is wiped out mostly in episode 5 we'd have to push on land and we could call for aid from elona so we'd get to see the awaken vs the risen in a big scale conflict.

> @"Fueki.4753" said: > Tengu? No thank you. I'd rather have Arenanet spend resources elsewhere. > There's also no coherent way a Tengu could suddenly become the dragon-slaying Commander, when he joins the team in EoD, having never slain a dragon before and hasn't been part of the Pact to earn the title of ~~Poobah~~ Commander. > > As for your story, it has a major flaw: > If Zhaitan hadn't been killed of completely, other dragons wouldn't have been able to absorb his Death magic and the Risen in Siren's landing could not be unchained. Also, there wouldn't have been the discovery of the problem with the natural balance and that killing dragons is bad. > > After all that Arenanet pulled in Season 5 already, I wouldn't be surprised about some plot twist of Zhaitan escaping the Mists and reanimating his own corpse though. This twist wouldn't change your story much, but it also wouldn't disrupt all the lore that has been built upon Zhaitan's death. Well no? The way I explained it tengu would fit into the story from the beginning easily if you read it. And that's not really a flaw I think you missed what I was trying to say. Zaitain DID die and release all his magic, BUT his dominion was death. The entire concept for his theme was raising things from the dead, so he did die and loose all his magic, but because we never went into his heart/soul magical center like we did for other dragons we never fully killed him. Just shoot a dragon with a turret a few times is a bigger lore gap for elder dragons then what Im suggesting.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said: > > @"Svennis.3852" said: > > Interestingly enough, there was a guild chat where they touched on this subject yesterday (I think?). I haven't been able to watch it yet, but they talked about a cut centaur storyline. > This is incorrect. > > Cut content, by definition, is content that was actually developed, but then removed. Either pre, or post, release. As they admit in their twitch stream, they never actually made the centaur storyline because they considered it too complicated to try to explain why the Centaurs were now your allies in such a short time. > > It isn't cut content, the content was never developed., or originally planned. It was an idea they had for a possible storyline. This contrasting to something like Malyck in HoT, who was originally designed to be in the expansion, but actually got cut out. I've literally seen people use the term to refer to scrapped content that was only in the planned phase by both fans and devs 100s of times. You're arbitrarily making up a fictional definition of the term to try and make a nonexistent semantical point...

> @"Amanda Whitemoon.6173" said: > it may just be a game mechanic, but this could also be used in the end, having them overlay a different effect at the end of the story after primordus died and they no longer need to be stone or something Yeah there is also a lot or lore room here to. We don't even know who the great dwarf is. Since the dwarfs and glint were allies I always assumed the great dwarf was a converted dragon champ like glint but able to make people like the pale tree. The dwarfs could have been made flesh to break Primordus's control so they could build up their wills as mortals and resist his call like the sylvari were able to. Would also explain why the stone summit seem to now be allies to primirdus

> @"kharmin.7683" said: > I would more easily accept dwarves over tengu. why would you be against one of the core guild wars 1 races? Especially when they are a key example of tyrian fantasy(charr, asura, sylvari, etc) where they try to break away from the generic fantasy tropes.

interesting. Another way to look at this information as well though could be that primordus or the people of Cantha killed the DSD and ate his magic and its why he has such a big edge over jormag now when they started as twins.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"TeeracK.3601" said: > > I always assumed the bridges in stairs of devastation could open up for ships to pass same with the scavengers' causeway probably having some kind of canal. > > Well, those bridges were made by the Pact. There's no indication they raise, but no need for them to either - by the time Zhaitan dies and they open up ship trade to Labyrinthine Cliffs and Amnoon, they could have torn those hastily built bridges and made better ones. The shallowness can also be attributed to Zhaitan raising Orr, rather than having always been that way (and can also be attributed to the fact that the game downscales the size of areas in the open world rather than fitting lore distances). > > > I always was really trigged by how they had already made the d'alessio seafront and when they did the karka instead of using it they decided to make up this massive ugly island that sucks(southsun cove) and it just completely retconned all the past maps from gw1 and even early gw2 for no reason. the legeitamately ruined the sea of sorrow's now and it doesn't make sense anymore. I really hope when the deep sea dragon is a thing he sinks the entire left side of southsun since they deleted all its content and its just an eye sore. > > It isn't really a retcon, since the entire story of the island is that it's a newly formed and still volcanic piece of land (particularly the main portion where the karka hive is, hence why there's lava so close to the surface). The only "old island" part of Southsun Cove is Pearl Inlet. This is the entire backstory of Canach's involvement. It's a newly formed island that was discovered in the wake of Zhaitan's death and the freeing up of sea travel with no/fewer dead ships. The Consortium laid claim to it, and sent Canach's team to survey the land, but despite the dead ship presence, the karka had settled there (avoiding Orr because they're smarter than quaggans and krait in avoiding dragon minions). > > > whats even worse is this location here which is right under the d'alessio seafront has always been on the map, has no lore, and is almost the exact size of south sun which is mostly a pointless zone with no content anyway so its size didnt matter as much. They could have easily put the karka stuff in the north part and the resort part on the smaller island. It's location even made more sense for the location if they were going to attack LA. > > > >  > > Fun fact, but that area was a scrapped mostly-aquatic level that was slated for the core release. This is why there's a path from Sparkfly Fen to that general area. Other scrapped areas that didn't get enough development to make it into the gw.dat like the original Lake Doric or the unnamed map at D'Alessio Seaboard. There was also a planned map north of Brisban, and south of Mount Maelstrom (also mostly aquatic) - hence why we can see zone portals leading into those directions. The reason why they did Southsun Cove instead of bringing that map back, I could only assume to be because players hated on underwater combat so much (same with Lake Doric's drainage - would have been **great** to have had the original with a giant kitten whirlpool in the lake). That's really interesting. I never heard about there being a map south of D'Alessio Seaboard and south of Mount Maelstrom. There any links or info? I've always been a big fan of old scrapped map stuff.

> @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > > > @"TeeracK.3601" said: > > > > > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > > > > I'm not inclined to think that the D'alessio Seaboard still exists thanks to the changing sea levels caused by Orr rising. Yeah, Southsun's placement on the map is awkward but just because you don't like certain content doesn't mean that it shouldn't exists. I rather like Southsun. > > > > > > > > The dev's removed most of the npcs and content in the second living story update. There is actually zero content on the left of the island. I was there when the karka queen died in season 1 the entire zone was gutted and left as a pointless husk. > > > > > > Pure hyperbole. I've been around GW2 just as long and I do remember the changes Southsun has gone through since its release in November of 2012. Its changed but its not been "Gutted", the majority of the events it started with are still there. > > > > I think Terrack is referring to the removal of the Settler vs Consortium content from Secret of Southsun / Last Stand at Southsun after May 2013. 17 events were added for the duration of those four weeks, but only 7 were kept (three being "altered" (aka replaced by near identical events)), specifically those involved with the Karka Queen meta were kept; there were dozens of NPCs added, and almost all of them removed. In addition, one event was removed entirely, and another (a patrol) was gated to behind player count rather than always present. > > > > Southsun Cove would be far more interesting if those 10 events were never removed. But we can say the same for all Season 1 content. > > > > The Lost Shores' ending did remove a handful of events in Southsun, but also added a handful as well. namely, those removed were about establishing a base in Southsun Cove - something that would have had been removed with Secret of Southsun Cove anyways (it **was** barren between The Lost Shores and Secret of Southsun, admittedly). Most events removed weren't in Southsun Cove, but were involved in "phase 1" of The Lost Shores (quaggan rescue, largos escort, elixer making, karka invasion repelling, etc.) and were more story-focused. If ANet ever brings back Season 1 in a serious manner, I imagine most events from The Lost Shores would be more likely to be turned into micro story instances instead of returning as events. > > I don't dispute any of this, I remember most of it. But I think my point still stands, Terrack was being unnecessarily hyperbolic to the point of dishonesty, the majority of the content in Southsun has remained over the years, it has not been "gutted". Gutted in the sense that the map itself. The literal land mass. (Which is what we're talking about) Has no purpose. I don't think anything i said was dishonest. /shrug

I feel like Rox wouldn't want to get involved in the war. She is probably with the Olmakhan since they have been building them up to become her warband and their whole thing is they want nothing to do with wars.

didnt even realize this was a thing. I wonder if Duchess Chrysanthea was a first born since her story was cut from dragonstand.

> @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > I'm not inclined to think that the D'alessio Seaboard still exists thanks to the changing sea levels caused by Orr rising. Yeah, Southsun's placement on the map is awkward but just because you don't like certain content doesn't mean that it shouldn't exists. I rather like Southsun. The dev's removed most of the npcs and content in the second living story update. There is actually zero content on the left of the island. I was there when the karka queen died in season 1 the entire zone was gutted and left as a pointless husk. > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > I'm not inclined to think that the D'alessio Seaboard still exists thanks to the changing sea levels caused by Orr rising. Yeah, Southsun's placement on the map is awkward but just because you don't like certain content doesn't mean that it shouldn't exists. I rather like Southsun. Actually Wooden Potatoes did a video on it years ago. They had made it and you can see all the islands still existing on the map. We got to go to claw island and that was clearly intact. [ ) and if you scale the unfished map so the claw islands line up perfect the entire map actually down to minor details line up all around the border.  I think based on the unfortunate design of south sun being a map where it almost felt like they were trying to fill up the maximum amount of space possible with land. I feel like it was a big time mistake and an early over reaction to how everyone hated swimming, so they were like "don't release any maps with lots of water till then." another unfinished map was also lake doric which was much bigger and went around the whole city and had a massive amount of water. when we got 1/3 of the map released later on they still found a way to remove most of the water. I'm pretty sure the Karka was originally something they had planed for D'alessio Seaboard. I think its pretty safe to assume it still exist as a location lorewise.

Ones that make the most sense. Tengu Kodan Largos Awakened One's id love but aint gonna happen Dredge Skritt Quaggan Choya :P

I always assumed the bridges in stairs of devastation could open up for ships to pass same with the scavengers' causeway probably having some kind of canal. I always was really trigged by how they had already made the d'alessio seafront and when they did the karka instead of using it they decided to make up this massive ugly island that sucks(southsun cove) and it just completely retconned all the past maps from gw1 and even early gw2 for no reason. the legeitamately ruined the sea of sorrow's now and it doesn't make sense anymore. I really hope when the deep sea dragon is a thing he sinks the entire left side of southsun since they deleted all its content and its just an eye sore. this was the map when the game first came out.  notice how the sea of sorrow's is open and makes sense for it to be a pirate hub form a former sea fairing nation. whats even worse is this location here which is right under the d'alessio seafront has always been on the map, has no lore, and is almost the exact size of south sun which is mostly a pointless zone with no content anyway so its size didnt matter as much. They could have easily put the karka stuff in the north part and the resort part on the smaller island. It's location even made more sense for the location if they were going to attack LA. 

i was expecting the spirits of the wild to get powered up after we killed jormag and them having been so diminished before hand explaining why norn dont transform as much in gw2.