Sajuuk Khar.1509

> @"Greattyphoon.3120" said:

> Ah okay I think I might understand. When I learned English, I was told "they" is always plural, and neutral singular was "it". But thank you for the explanation. Why not use "it" since Jormag is a dragon is also confusing to me. But thank you.

The use of "it" as a singular in regards to a person is considered offensive in many places because "it" is typically used for objects, and so speaking about a person as if they were an object is generally frowned upon. The word "they" retains the humanizing elements of other words like he/him/she/her, and is thus the preferred term when talking about people.

> @"Bast.7253" said:

> Or is the surprise that the ministry of purity is killing people who are suspected of having the affliction? Or was that a known fact already?

The Ministry of Purity was leading the charge to remove the last remnants of the plague during the "Winds of Change" storyline in Guild wars 1.

Nope, Bangar is still silent today.

That_Shaman took the GW2 map art, expanded it downward, and added Cantha using the scaling from the in-game map texture.

If we use PoF maps as a benchmark, Cantha is very large, and easily supports 5 expansion sized maps, as well as an entire LW saga similar to Icebrood Saga as well.

*note* the below map is a purely hypothetical drawing based on showcasing the size of Cantha with no attempt made to claim this is actually how the expansion and Living World will look.

The size of maps E1-4 are based on the Elon Riverlands, and E5 is based on Domain of Vabbi. LW1-8 are based on Bjora Marches and Drizzlewood.


> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> Just given by the text, it sounds like stone summit are no more other then this group that we are dealing with.

>

> “A messenger has returned from the peace agreements. The other Summit clans have agreed to reunify with Deldrimor.”

>

> Reunify with my understanding would mean no more Stone Summit.

Yes, and when 99% of your group goes off and does something, and you don't, that doesn't really make you part of the group now does it?

The Stone Summit don't exist, because they went back to the Deldrimor. There is just this group of former Stone Summit that got corrupted. So the original statement I replied to, the one that claimed the Stone Summit are now part of Primordus's arsenal is wrong, they aren't. The Stone Summit rejoined the Deldrimor, and turned into Stone Dwarves who fought Primordus's minions.

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> I’m still holding to the belief that Primordus will be the last dragon to die. He’ll escape deeper into Tyria or flee into the mists or something. Given that Primordus has been kinda bobbling in and out of the story as a reminder that he is still a threat, as well as the big dragon antagonist that may or may not end up being Aurene’s opposite of the dragon of light, and transforming into the dragon of darkness.

>

> What I also notice is the lack of variation with destroyers. We have what the crab, troll, harpy, mega destroyer and wyvern destroyer models? We now have the inclusion of the stone summit, which beefs up Primordus arsenal a bit as well.

>

> All of the other dragons seem to have a wide array of minions, yet Primordus is lacking. Is this because eventually Primordus is going to have access to all the different dragon spheres of influence and this will be reflected in light blue/blue and purple destroyers as well, along with the death/vine and regular destroyer models?

I also believe Primordus will be the last to die to do thematic parallels to GW1.

Also, the Stone Summit aren't under Primordus's command, only that one group was. Most of the Stone Summit had made a treay with the Deldrimor, and followed them into turning to stone and fighting the destroyers.

> @"Taylan.2187" said:

> I believe Jormag will be dead soon but don't know how DSD and especially Primordius fit into this story. The voice could simply be DSD, or its champion, which would make sense. (Last surviving DSD trying to complete the cycle of destruction?) But what's with Primordius then?? Finishing him off in some LW season would be super lame, even if there was time for a whole new LW season after Icebrood is over.

I don't really see why killing Primordus in an LW season, or an expansion, really matters. LW seasons and expansions are pretty much the same thing, except expansions drop all at once, while LW seasons release over time. We would get the same amount of maps/achievements/skins/story either way.

That being said, I think people are taking "End of Dragons" too literally. I doubt all of the Elder Dragons will be dead by the end of it. The expansion will probably deal more with us finding a way to safely end them without the world blowing up, removing the last barrier we have to killing them, rather then the actual KILLING of the last Elder Dragon. The "End of Dragons" referring more to the end the final power they lord over us.

> @"Bast.7253" said:

> The devs have gone out of their way to say that they have plenty of story left to tell. So, I see no reason as to why there wouldn't be any room for more story/another expansion. Especially dealing with the gods.

>

> After all, what we see on the in-game map is a tiny portion of the entire planet according to the Globe of Whispers. If it's profitable, they'll come up with something.

The said EoD isn't the end of GW2's narrative, and that they have stories for after that.

At the rate the game moves, we are easily looking at two more living world seasons after EoD, before we finish the dragon plot. Which, if they are anything like IBS, is another 4 more years of narratives after IBS/EoD. At the rate its going, IBS still has a year left in it. Giving us 5 more years of narratives, and the game being 13 years old by the time we are done with this.

Narratively, the game has wrapped up, or is working wrapping up, pretty much every major plot its introduced

Humanity(Kryta)

* The centaurs have been defeated, and pushed out of Kryta

* The bandits leaders have been killed

* The White Mantle has been rooted out, and competently destroyed

Sylvari

* The mystery behind their origin and immunity to dragon corruption has been discovered

* The Pale Tree has been put on the path to recovery

* The Nightmare court has had all of its leadership destroyed, and its numbers decimated

Charr

* Kralkatorrik is dead, and the branded are being moped up

* Bangar has been outed, and the Charr civil war is over

* The Flame Legion has been brought back into Charr society under the leadership of Efram

* The Charr are now on a path to fix many of the massive social problems that have plagued them for centuries

Norn

* Braham has cracked the tooth, setting into motion the prophecy

* We have discovered what happened to the lost Spirits of the Wild, including the truth behind Owl

* We learned the truth behind Asgeir's fight with Jormag

* Jahvi was able to get revenge on Drakkar for what it did to her family

Humanity(Elona)

* Palawa Joko is dead, and his empire collapsed

* The Sunspear Order has been reformed

* The various groups in Elona have formed a coalition government to move Elona into a post-Joko future together.

Like, there is the Cantha stuff(EoD and its associated living world), and the Asura stuff(Primordus season after EoD and its LW), and then GW2 will be pretty much out of the major narrative hooks that have permeated the game since the beginning. There is a few other things like the Wizard Tower(a raid), getting rid of the Ghosts of Ascalon, and what happened the Mylack, but those are things that aren't full narratives themselves, those are plot points inside actual narratives(like having us find Malyck and his tree in the northern Maguuma Wastes after we go up there because Primordus does something). And I would be legit surprised if the god plot doesn't get woven into, and wrapped up, alongside the dragon plot given that the gods left because of the dragons, and the two that were still around were only so because of the dragons.

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> Wait ... !?

> Kralkatorrik's mother is alive ?

Nothing indicates she is.

> @"serialkicker.5274" said:

>Plus, this could possibly be last expansion.

I could very easily see this being the case.

We have already killed 3 Elder Dragons, and with the way IBS is going we are likely to bring down number 4 before the expansion drops. Either the expansion itself, or the expansion + Canthan LW season will deal with Bubbles, leaving only Primordus to deal with. And that doesn't really require an expansion, that could just be done in another LW season.

The vast majority of the major plot threads the game has ever set up are resolved by now. With only a few smaller ones left. And Cantha is the last major area we don't have represented in GW2 yet.

> @"Funky.4861" said:

>It's extremely sexist and in my opinion indefensible.

It literally isn't. As @"Ayrilana.1396" pointed out, Bangar mentioned sons because Rytlock was talking about his son Ryland. Had Rytlock been talking about a hypothetical daughter, Bangar would have said daughter, since both statements are true. Charr do not have sons or daughters, they don't have children.

>.I doubt either of you would adopt the stance you have if Bangar had said 'daughters' and ryland had been female.

I literally wouldn't care either way, because Charr treat both men and women equally. Specifically, they treat both as just disposable warriors in the Charr war machine.

>P.s. I'm not bad at understanding media; i'm bad at accepting a radical ideology, seemingly at odds with the culture it's embedded in, being suddenly imposed onto my character.

Nothing in this dialog implies anything of the sort. You are really reaching to find some sort of agenda were there isn't one.

> @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> Though the best thing I can guess if Anet decides to finally explain who and what Kanaxai is will either be the Cantha Expansion Raid or actually make Kanaxai or atleast lore about him part of Cantha's Main storyline.

I would love to see Kanaxai and Urgoz reborn as raids in GW2, even though I have never touched raids, and never will. Would be a nice callback to how they were in GW1.

> @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> I'm like 90% certain that they're downgrading the "Saga" to a normal season. They literally said they wanted to experiment with expansion like seasons and then a few months later reneged. I'm pretty sure that's because the player base hasn't received the Saga the same way they would an expansion. Though I'd argue that's wholly their fault as they gave no new elites or legendaries with it at launch. Icebrood mastery has its moments, but it's meh. Had they promised more then perhaps the community would have taken it differently. I'm guessing 2 more episodes, then we're done.

>

> Also, they promised in april of 2019 that we'd be seeing more of previous maps with this living world and it hasn't happened. Collections in the old world doesn't seem like the promise of that experiment. There's been a clear change in direction.

We know there's 4 more episodes, and at least one more visions-like side update. For a total of a minimum of 11 releases for Icebrood Saga. Much more then a normal season. I'm guessing we will get two more visions like updates, for a total of 12.

> @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> Well if some how the hypothesis that Kanaxai maybe a ancient DSD minion, then DSD maybe related to Water and Nightmares.

Kanaxi doesn't really fit the profile of a water based lifeform, nor does it match the description of DSD minions, which are described as tentacled horrors.

Back in GW1 he was classified as a demon, so he likely came from the Mists.

> @"Revolution.5409" said:

> I doubt that the city has changed much aesthetically, but I think it's bigger.

Grander in scope at least.

The city was already larger then the island of Istan.

> @"Bast.7253" said:

> It feels like we have so little left of this Saga and still so much lore that hasn't been touched in terms of the Norn, Spirits, or Koda.

Well, there was a book back in episode 2 that said Jormag knows something about the Kodan, the other races of Tyria, and the Mists. I could see them expanding upon that if/when we got back into the Shiverpeaks.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Anet pull a "Koda is actually Jormag" twist(and I use that word with heavy sarcasm). People have already pointed out how the claw/voice system the Kodan use is the same of Jormag's claw and voice. Some Kodan in Still Waters speaking speculate on the possibility. And Jormag claims to want to spare the Norn because it sees them as strong, and worthy, perhaps it did the same with the Kodan last cycle.

Here is this weeks updates for the Bangar achievement.

Basically, Rytlock questions how Bangar could let what happened with Ryland happen, and says he should have gone back to the homelands a long time ago, and Bangar says Rytlock has forgotten what it means to be Charr.




> @"Jimbru.6014" said:

>The Voice, which is definitely male

Most people I've seen have said its a female voice, and it sounds exactly like a female voice to me. It would have to be a very effeminate man for the voice to belong to one IMO.

> @"Bast.7253" said:

>I mean, it doesn't really make sense to me either, but I threw out the possibility that there could be a random civilzation of humans and centaur out there. We don't really know as it's uncharted territory.

Its uncharted to us, but, assuming that Blood and Ash have just as much land as Iron(something the size of Ascalon), most of the land to the north and east, even on the parts of the map that aren't visible in-game, would be Charr lands, where the Charr have been for hundreds of years. It would be well known to them.

> Or for that matter, Jormag could assume that Primordus is still asleep and be looking to make a move. Jormag was already at their "established power base" near the spirits, and still managed to be wounded pretty bad by Primordus. So it doesn't seem like it's that much of an advantage assuming Jormag's real concern is Primordus.

That battle was stated to have happened "long ago", with no exact timeframe given. Hell, it could have happened in a previous cycle, or before the Norn fled south and Jormag corrupted the spirits, which wasn't that long ago by typical standards.

>But again, the key here is what is driving Jormag to move through Tyria in the first place. Doesn't really seem like exercise is the sole motivation. There has to be something else.

Who knows. With only four episodes left, and an established pattern of split maps across episodes 1-4, that really only leaves us with two more maps, and the last two are probably going to be the big Dragon's Stand/Dragonfall fight maps, leaving really only one more map, and two chapters, for us to learn Jormag's real motivations before we start beating on it.

I admit, Jormag moving through Tyria, only to go to someplace so close, seems odd. On the other hand, I would find it odder if we went back to Elona, or the Crystal Desert, given that IBS has, so far, been almost exclusive Charr and Norn focused, and there's nothing down there related to either. And when it comes to core Tyria areas, there really isn't any room left to put another LWS4/IBS sized map, outside of that strip between Thunderhead and the Black Citadel. well, that and the Scavenger's Causeway area, and that would be just as odd as Elona or the Desert IMO. that really just leaves the far north of the Blood Legion lands, the Far Shiverpeaks, the Woodland Cascades, and the northern part of the Maguuma wastes.

I wonder even more where the Primordus story maps will be, unless they do something like LWS3, where they just shotgun the maps all over the place to fill things out.

> @"Dante.1508" said:

> Worshipping something by definition is a god?

Uhh no?

Not to delve to far into real world religions, but Buddhists worship Buddha, and his teachings, but admit he isn't a god, just a guy who was really wise. Even in-game, the Norn worship the Spirits of the Wild, but also admit they don't see them as gods, just wise beings worthy of respect and worship for the wisdom and powers they give.

> @"Bast.7253" said:

> Was was the deal with the tomes anyway? It was 9 slots right? But were 2 slots of the tome related to the two halves of the map released in different episodes? If that's the case we would be looking at 4 maps - 8 episodes, plus the prologue.

The portal tome had 9 slots in it(before Anet added the EoTN) labeled episodes 0-8.

Each of these split maps technically has two portal scrolls that take up their own slot in the tome, but you can only have one at a time. These scrolls will transport you to a different area of the map, depending on which scroll you used. For example, the episode 1 scroll takes you to Jora's Keep, while the episode 2 scroll takes you to the western side of the mountains in Bjora.

> @"Dante.1508" said:

> I think then Kuunavang could be talking to the Zodiacs. The Zodiacs were a big thing in Cantha, they were literally their gods.

The gods of Cantha were the 6 human gods. The Celestials were just other things they worshiped.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> Which is enough to prove that it was changed both physically and mentally.

Which still means it wasn't corrupted by any of them, and none of the Elder Dragons did so themselves, and it retained its free will unlike the actual corrupted who don't.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> That's assuming 8 episodes remains true, ANet maintains their release cadence that have held since the prologue, and there is another intermission release in the same placement as VotP and Fractal releases.

>

> End of Dragons thus is coming out either September or November of 2021 - depending on whether we get an epilogue release (either full episode like the prologue or, more likely imo, an intermission episode like VotP).

While I agree with your argument, why do you assume that the fractal will be a release on its own, instead of something that comes alongside a Living World release? Hell, Anet released the Hall of Chains raid alongside Daybreak, and a raid is much larger then a fractal.

The way I see it we will get

* September: fractal/VoTP style side update

* November: Episode 5

* January: Episode 6

* March: VoTP side update

* May: Episode 7

* July : Episode 8

with the expansion coming out in September of November, depending on if we get a prologue type update as you mention.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> The narrative of Subject Alpha is that it was uncontrollable, and capable of controlling all dragon minions. The later fact is solid proof that Alpha was connected to all five Elder Dragon hive minds enough to command those minions, since its proven multiple times over that it is through the hiveminds that champions command minions.

>

> Kudu's Monster is the only one who has reason of doubt for any connection, but Alpha? The proof is there that it had that connection.

It was uncontrollable by the Inquest. Nothing says it was controlled by any of the Elder Dragons(which wouldn't make sense because the moment any one of them got their hands on it they would have no reason to let control go, meaning it wouldn't be able to control any of the other Dragon minions by your own argument, as it would then be locked into that Dragon's hivemind. Which means your own argument disproves itself)

All that proves is that it had a backdoor into the hivemind, that it could use to control minions around it, but was still separate enough to not be under the direct thrall of any Elder Dragon.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> 1. We have no evidence to say that Subject Alpha, Subject Beta, and Kudu's Monster are not under the mental thrall of Elder Dragons.

Except the stated purpose of Kudu's Monster, and Subject Alpha, was to create a being, outside the Elder Dragon's control, that could be used to control other dragon minions/artificially made minions, to further Kudu's/the Inquest's goals. Subject Beta, being a continuation of these experiments, would follow in the same design philosophy. The whole narrative point of these creatures was that they weren't, and until said time as something states they were, they weren't. That's how narratives work.

Quite literally, ALL evidence supports that they weren't, while NOTHING suggests they were.