Sansar.1302

Why dont you zerglings make another build and gear and switch builds ? after gear and build templates that would be 1 press of button

Maby boons should in WvW should only be personal?

> @"Moira Shalaar.5620" said:

> There are a lot of different reasons for a play style that others may disapprove of. For my own guild we have had a lot of success in bringing in previously PvE only players and encouraging them and teaching them how to also play in WvW. Many of them have never experienced any sort of PvP and haven't developed those kinds of skills yet. Part of that success in recruiting PvE players though is through a strong squad loyalty. If someone starts picking off our squad around the edges, from behind etc, they get destroyed. We take care of our own, we come back for our own, and we teach every roamer that if they want to pick ours off, they will themselves also be picked off with prejudice. We are willing to pursue a single player across the map to convey that message. If they don't like it, then don't do it again. And if that means that we sometimes get steamrolled by a larger squad, so be it. It is a part of our squad cohesion and esprit de corps.

This is a problem, I bet you always try to cap something.

Then those players will never learn to handle their class , and in the end that kind of players end up always being 1 pushed in 50v50 and they become karma train players.

This game mode is getting more and more carebear/Pve mentality :C

Both Gs and sword need to be changed back, they are plain broken and not fun.

Sword became a total useless weapon :( GS is ok but missing that cripple is hard and the block is a bit strong ,evade on 3rd part of auto chain and ranged block/ 1 hit melle block where way better balanced than ultra weak auto chain and op block

Saying it again some only want to win match and other only want fair fights.

The problem is that those that want fair fights usually are the strongest players and win vs even numbers.

And then those that lose beef up their numbers to the point its not possible to fight like 1v1-2 escalating to 1v5+ or 5 vs 5+ escalate to 5 vs 10-20 or they leave if they cant get those numbers

Most of the people that gank with 3+ people are truly horrible players with no reaction or any kind of skill. (btw douos are free bags 50% of the time and dont mind them at all ) I only hate it when you get swarmed.

I think belive the problem is that some only care fore points and match as whole and other only care about the fights ( And the quality of them)

And yes I can understand that it is frustrating to get killed 1v1 when you try to get back your grp or when you get killed 1v1 and did no dmg at all to the attacker.

Skill in this game mode is so important and many dont know how to handle their class at all (think of this in PVE a really good player have 10x damage output than the average joe according to a-net ) (might not have been 10x but it where brutal difference )

Delete all support apart from self support as this game never where design to have healers or other "trinity" mechanics.

Any why not scale down heal of players in squad a bit that would make zerg busting a thing. something like - 0.5% health per person in squad would help when numbers are way to uneven

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Julius Seizure.4985" said:

> > Make it so condition damage is reduced by something (toughness, vitality, etc) and then have Precision add the current “ignores armor” reduction effect.

> Thats called vitality and condi cleanse.

>

> The latter part makes zerg essentially immune to condi attrition and removes any viability of condition damage at sizes above 3-5. Even a single heal firebrand or heal scrapper in such groups make condi very ineffective against them, while they in turn can just stack power and train people down.

>

> "Crazy" and "unstoppable" my kitten.

Yes it is in smal scale, some of these condi tank builds is only betable with a mirror ( same kinda build and class) Last meta where Power with some condi classes like mirage and condi thief still being good.

Zerg play cant say as I dont do that any more , but seams right what you say about it being less effective there.

Remove condition dmg and restore power dmg plz

Why the h..... the nerf , cant we have any melle dmg ? no big hitter left core ranger nerfed more :angry:

would be best if they undid whole patch while they try and get it right as old balance had severe problems too, but not like this where the whole game mode broke down

These changes need to come to WvW too as soon as possible.

Have been some big nerfs to Fb and Necro in mini patch, need this to come to WvW too as it final breake fb and necro meta that have lasted for years.

Worse by far

As this patch more or less broke wvw and pvp, would it be better to go back to previus build and rethink whole patch ?

> @"Lalary.3561" said:

> All you one shot criers seem to deny your lack of skills, reflexes, and understanding your opponents build or their play patterns. Always complaining about anyone who finishes you in a timely manner when you could have played better or simply tweak your build to counter them.

> Do you know a fight between two skilled players goes on for minutes even with full glass gears on both sides? Because they don't waste dodges nor spamming skills while target has passive on or invulnerable and they know how to time and anticipate each others next burst combos.

This is spot on, dont think many is capable to see their own shortcoming in fights.

> @"Ario.8964" said:

> I did a good deal of playing today and these are just some of my preliminary thoughts that I gathered throughout the day (this is from a holo/rev perspective if that helps give a reference view)

>

> - CC is too present now. The reduction of stunbreaks and stab was great, and cc definitely feels more meaningful when it's actually landed on a target but there's just too much of it right now. It is way too easy to get rag dolled around for an entire fight just because you simply don't have the capability to deal with that level of cc. Please look into either reducing the duration of ccs that had extended durations or remove the control effects of many cc skills.

> - Firebrand needs to be toned down more (specifically symbolbrand). Obviously since I don't play firebrand I can't say with absolute certainty but my first thought is the need to reduce/remove burn and bleed access for their kit as it allows them to stack too much damage while still being able to support their team (a more extreme solution would be to remove sage but I'd prefer not to remove amulets when that can be avoided). Their Daze on axe 2 doesn't need to be there either, it is not necessary for the function of the skill and just adds more unnecessary cc into the game.

> - Projectile hate needs to be toned down. For projectile based builds in any sort of teamfight is is ridiculously hard to do consistent damage since there's almost always some sort of projectile hate up (bubble or hammer 2 from scrapper, Axe 5 on ranger, Shield 5 on guard, focus 4 air on ele, dagger storm, etc)

> - Ranger greatsword is still overloaded as a set, maul still hits for absurd amounts on a 6 sec cd (I got hit for 11k today) AND gets instant reset from cc. Combine that with block on 4, evade on 3 (+ heavy mobility) and evade on auto and you just have a weapon that does too much. Autos don't need an evade (that is the ONLY weapon in the game with that kind of ability, closest follower in overloaded auto effects is staff thief getting reflect on an auto. No auto in this game should have really strong effects like that tied to them.) so that can be removed, maul either needs another cd increase, another damage nerf, or no more skill reset on cc. After that the weapon is fine imo.

> - Pathing is still a huge issue for dash skills, I have skills like bull's charge going around pillars to hit me which defeats the whole purpose of LoS. Not a new issue, but still one that needs to be looked into.

> - Engineer's bombs need a shorter fuse time. Short fuse got the cd reduction rolled into the skills but they needed the functionality change too. They are still too slow and will not hit anything reliably that doesn't just stand next to you. Also was pretty sure big boomer was supposed to heal 202 hp per second but even with healing power I'm getting like 178 a second instead.

> - Rev battle scars is very underwhelming, you don't get enough healing for that investment and it doesn't matter because of something even bigger: REV ENERGY COSTS ARE TOO kitten HIGH. Either remove energy costs from all weapon skills, or reduce the energy costs of the stunbreaks because the removal of EV combined with the shiro nerf was WAY too much (EV removal alone would've been enough to keep rev balanced but functional at least) Now you break stun 1 time and you have 0 cds you can use because energy costs...

>

> Overall, patch feels nicer. The game has slowed down to a reasonable pace but there are some outliers that were missed and still ought to be adjusted in the alleged follow up patches.

You know Ranger lost the evade on greatsword autochain long time ago? It is one of the weakest auto attack chains in game now due to the slow speed of the chain

> @"RangerThings.9810" said:

> I am thankful for this patch. It’s slowed down action, lowered skill requirements, and killed solo roaming, so I can finally delete this game.

>

> Had some fun duels, but fights last so long that you’ll always get adds and more adds. Booooring.

>

> ✌️

Yupp "awesome" patch :(

> @"subversiontwo.7501" said:

> > @"Sansar.1302" said:

> > mainly played core ranger , core messmer and reaper all solo roaming

> I can understand your frustration Sansar, but at the same time, perhaps those classes/builds were not fun because you enjoy a fast paced game but rather because they were overpowered and as such were more fun for you than they were for your opponents.

>

> Had the game drifted even further towards a bursty roaming hegemony, where the vast majority of players in the game had all played eg., Deadeyes. Would you have considered the balance still as fun? It may be an overreaching example but that is a direction we were heading in.

>

> Alot of people who think something is fun often overlook what it is that makes it fun and that their own fun is derived from how other people are trying to do something else and make themselves targets for you. For example, it may be more fun to play a non-apex roaming build if there are zerglings commuting across a map than if it is almost only populated with apex predators that you can't find, catch or beat on a common basis with a suboptimal build like that.

>

Deadeyes where my bread and butter where so easy to kill :)

I think 5 to 10 sec is perfect

> @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > @"kash.9213" said:

> > You cry too much. I said some stuff needed it's damage taken down some, not all of it. Warriors weren't immortal, but if they were hard to kill, isn't that what you wanted going by your post and we just needed to bring everyone else in line with that?

> I should have bought popcorn for patch day for sure.

> I only stated the truth, if you like it or not, I honestly don't care.

> TBH I would have nerfed them even more, but well, I'll accept these changes. Warriors could easily rotate through their defenses and there were available really small opportunity windows to do anything against them, on top of that their ccs were hitting hard and sometimes even harder than their burst skills, which shouldn't be possible for the healthy gameplay. And to add even more salt to the wound, their sustain was far too passive which allowed warriors to not care at all for cd and push without worry about being punished.

> I want every single class and e-spec to be brought down to pre-condi rework(before HoT release). Yes, I want my main which a is circus mix of Thief and Guardian to be nerfed to the ground aswell, I hate dumbed down gameplay to please egos of bad players.

You are still going to be killed by the same ppl as before patch as skill is what matters most in this game any way.

> @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > @"Sansar.1302" said:

> > > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > > What was fun about getting hit for over 15k from a single skill from a single class while you had over 3k armor? What was fun about getting 20k hit from stealth? What was fun about perma boons and ability to disengage 24/7? What was fun about fighting near immortal classes? What was fun about fighting all-in-one classes? What was fun about fighting perma-evasion classes? What was fun about fighting classes that weren't punished for their mistakes?

> > > Was it fun to get a cookie without putting any effort at all? Looks like it was, one-trick-pony.

> >

> > Some like Chess and other like Street Fighter, I loved the active play with the one shots and Evades, Blocks, Stealth, Reflects, Mobilety and more.

> > Now it is way more like a tab target mmo :(

>

> Lol? Excuse me? What? Active play and one shots in one sentece? I hope you're kidding right now. Blocks, stealth, reflects, mobility is still present in the game, it wasn't removed at all, but the damage was nerfed and it was REALLY good step.

> So instead of getting proper fights in which you may learn something, you prefer "lol, 30k from stealth MB, and you didn't dodged me, you should pay attention when i was stealthing at my spawn on the opposing side of map, boomer you didn't fight back, pathetic"?

> Sweet hamster in the cage, these people are far too used to powercreep...

> The game is still "active play", but now enemy actually have a chance to fight back against monkey builds and you apparently have a problem with that. Seriously what a joke...

> > @"kash.9213" said:

> > What was fun about fighting all of those builds you covered was that they were exciting to fight and made my build and skills better. Maybe some skills that packed too much damage could be brought down a little even though I think some people straight up lie about how much armor they bring, everything you mentioned you should be able to build to counter.

> > No one is hitting me 20k from stealth, they have to come out of stealth first and I normally see their re-stealth effect a couple of times before they're near because, I'm watching, so don't go half afk just because you're in a blob.

> > I built for boon steal and I took control skills and utility to disrupt disengage.

> > Who is immortal? Everyone would be that build.

> > What's not fun about fighting and all in one class?

> > Who is perma evade and why don't you have pulls, interrupts, and circles on them?

> > Again, if a class wasn't punished for their mistakes, everyone would be playing it.

> As expected, forum is entertaining today.

> I honestly don't see what's so exciting about fighting powercreeped builds (either use them or fight against them), in both cases it was uber boring, since build was doing all the work for the player, which means you won't improve at all in long run, but instead it'll increase your delusion of being "good". Fast paced combat is nice and all as long you're truly skilled and the opponent have a chance to fight back, which before patch with certain classes weren't the case in the slightest.

> Now to state the obvious most people are aware:

> Immortal class - Warrior

> It's not fun to fight all-in-one classes, because they have too much access to sustain/damage/mobility/etc without drawbacks (holosmith, spellbreaker, boonbeast and others).

> Perma evade - Thief, Mirage, Weaver.

> And surprise surprise, what classes you met while roaming? Let me guess: thief, warrior, soulbeast, mesmer...

>

Dont sound like we are playing the same game at all :(

> @"MikeG.6389" said:

> > @"Sansar.1302" said:

> > > @"MikeG.6389" said:

> > > > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > > > What was fun about getting hit for over 15k from a single skill from a single class while you had over 3k armor? What was fun about getting 20k hit from stealth? What was fun about perma boons and ability to disengage 24/7? What was fun about fighting near immortal classes? What was fun about fighting all-in-one classes? What was fun about fighting perma-evasion classes? What was fun about fighting classes that weren't punished for their mistakes?

> > > > Was it fun to get a cookie without putting any effort at all? Looks like it was, one-trick-pony.

> > >

> > > Maybe OP was the one doing those things and now they can't? I'm just speculating, but one-trick-pony does seem to be bang on the money...

> > > What an awfully whiny day today...

> >

> > Can still get plenty of solo kills but with the slower pace its just not fun :(

>

> You'll get used to it, I'm sure.

go to the pvp forums , they are starting to find the flaws with this patch too and it is not small stuff.... bunker/condi meta from 5 years ago is back :angry:

> @"MikeG.6389" said:

> > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > What was fun about getting hit for over 15k from a single skill from a single class while you had over 3k armor? What was fun about getting 20k hit from stealth? What was fun about perma boons and ability to disengage 24/7? What was fun about fighting near immortal classes? What was fun about fighting all-in-one classes? What was fun about fighting perma-evasion classes? What was fun about fighting classes that weren't punished for their mistakes?

> > Was it fun to get a cookie without putting any effort at all? Looks like it was, one-trick-pony.

>

> Maybe OP was the one doing those things and now they can't? I'm just speculating, but one-trick-pony does seem to be bang on the money...

> What an awfully whiny day today...

Can still get plenty of solo kills but with the slower pace its just not fun :(

Dont think any of my builds is one tricks, as most days I have killstreaks solo of 15+ and can handle most 2v1 on all my 3 mains necro too ;)