Berserker QOL ideas

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

So here is an idea that struck me as a nice QOL for Berserker that also helps gameplay while out of Berserk Mode.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burst_of_Aggression

Change Burst of Aggression so that it grants quickness when entering BMode and grants superspeed when you gain quickness. This aids gameplay in and out of BMode since then when you gain quickness from other sources you also get super speed. It would be fine with a shorter superspeed duration or a shortish ICD, nothing more than 15s, on the superspeed gain.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fatal_Frenzy

Remove the stat gain and stat penalty. Instead make Fatal Frenzy refresh Burst of Aggression, and the ICD on the superspeed if it is added, upon using a Primal Burst. This would help in keeping up pressure and catching kiters, which is something that Berserker kind of needs and would also add some cohesion to the Minor traits.

 

Headbutt:

Make it remove all stacks of stability on the target, stun for 2s if no stab was removed, 3s if stab was removed (yes a guaranteed stun). In addition to the 30 adrenaline gain make it recharge Berserk Mode if you are not in Berserk Mode.

 

The above change would help with down time and add more options to game play. Do you use Headbutt to initiate BMode, extend it, or reenter it once it ends?

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> So here is an idea that struck me as a nice QOL for Berserker that also helps gameplay while out of Berserk Mode.

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burst_of_Aggression

> Change Burst of Aggression so that it grants quickness when entering BMode and grants superspeed when you gain quickness. This aids gameplay in and out of BMode since then when you gain quickness from other sources you also get super speed. It would be fine with a shorter superspeed duration or a shortish ICD, nothing more than 15s, on the superspeed gain.

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fatal_Frenzy

> Remove the stat gain and stat penalty. Instead make Fatal Frenzy refresh Burst of Aggression, and the ICD on the superspeed if it is added, upon using a Primal Burst. This would help in keeping up pressure and catching kiters, which is something that Berserker kind of needs and would also add some cohesion to the Minor traits.

>

> Headbutt:

> Make it remove all stacks of stability on the target, stun for 2s if no stab was removed, 3s if stab was removed (yes a guaranteed stun). In addition to the 30 adrenaline gain make it recharge Berserk Mode if you are not in Berserk Mode.

>

> The above change would help with down time and add more options to game play. Do you use Headbutt to initiate BMode, extend it, or reenter it once it ends?

 

I like these especially 1 and 3. But I'm extremely concerned about those stats being removed from Fatal Frenzy. I'll take my +300 power and -300 toughness honestly, I want to actually do damage and I sure as hell won't be if you remove that power...

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > So here is an idea that struck me as a nice QOL for Berserker that also helps gameplay while out of Berserk Mode.

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burst_of_Aggression

> > Change Burst of Aggression so that it grants quickness when entering BMode and grants superspeed when you gain quickness. This aids gameplay in and out of BMode since then when you gain quickness from other sources you also get super speed. It would be fine with a shorter superspeed duration or a shortish ICD, nothing more than 15s, on the superspeed gain.

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fatal_Frenzy

> > Remove the stat gain and stat penalty. Instead make Fatal Frenzy refresh Burst of Aggression, and the ICD on the superspeed if it is added, upon using a Primal Burst. This would help in keeping up pressure and catching kiters, which is something that Berserker kind of needs and would also add some cohesion to the Minor traits.

> >

> > Headbutt:

> > Make it remove all stacks of stability on the target, stun for 2s if no stab was removed, 3s if stab was removed (yes a guaranteed stun). In addition to the 30 adrenaline gain make it recharge Berserk Mode if you are not in Berserk Mode.

> >

> > The above change would help with down time and add more options to game play. Do you use Headbutt to initiate BMode, extend it, or reenter it once it ends?

>

> I like these especially 1 and 3. But I'm extremely concerned about those stats being removed from Fatal Frenzy. I'll take my +300 power and -300 toughness honestly, I want to actually do damage and I sure as hell won't be if you remove that power...

 

I feel somewhat the same way and contemplated adding in there that Quickness grants +150 power and +150 condition damage, but felt that would be overloading it. The extra Quickness would help damage output though so it probably balances out in the long run.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > So here is an idea that struck me as a nice QOL for Berserker that also helps gameplay while out of Berserk Mode.

> > >

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burst_of_Aggression

> > > Change Burst of Aggression so that it grants quickness when entering BMode and grants superspeed when you gain quickness. This aids gameplay in and out of BMode since then when you gain quickness from other sources you also get super speed. It would be fine with a shorter superspeed duration or a shortish ICD, nothing more than 15s, on the superspeed gain.

> > >

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fatal_Frenzy

> > > Remove the stat gain and stat penalty. Instead make Fatal Frenzy refresh Burst of Aggression, and the ICD on the superspeed if it is added, upon using a Primal Burst. This would help in keeping up pressure and catching kiters, which is something that Berserker kind of needs and would also add some cohesion to the Minor traits.

> > >

> > > Headbutt:

> > > Make it remove all stacks of stability on the target, stun for 2s if no stab was removed, 3s if stab was removed (yes a guaranteed stun). In addition to the 30 adrenaline gain make it recharge Berserk Mode if you are not in Berserk Mode.

> > >

> > > The above change would help with down time and add more options to game play. Do you use Headbutt to initiate BMode, extend it, or reenter it once it ends?

> >

> > I like these especially 1 and 3. But I'm extremely concerned about those stats being removed from Fatal Frenzy. I'll take my +300 power and -300 toughness honestly, I want to actually do damage and I sure as hell won't be if you remove that power...

>

> I feel somewhat the same way and contemplated adding in there that Quickness grants +150 power and +150 condition damage, but felt that would be overloading it. The extra Quickness would help damage output though so it probably balances out in the long run.

 

Mmm still not convinced but I really like the burst of aggression idea. Would be super nice for my agility sigil on GS.

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > So here is an idea that struck me as a nice QOL for Berserker that also helps gameplay while out of Berserk Mode.

> > > >

> > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burst_of_Aggression

> > > > Change Burst of Aggression so that it grants quickness when entering BMode and grants superspeed when you gain quickness. This aids gameplay in and out of BMode since then when you gain quickness from other sources you also get super speed. It would be fine with a shorter superspeed duration or a shortish ICD, nothing more than 15s, on the superspeed gain.

> > > >

> > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fatal_Frenzy

> > > > Remove the stat gain and stat penalty. Instead make Fatal Frenzy refresh Burst of Aggression, and the ICD on the superspeed if it is added, upon using a Primal Burst. This would help in keeping up pressure and catching kiters, which is something that Berserker kind of needs and would also add some cohesion to the Minor traits.

> > > >

> > > > Headbutt:

> > > > Make it remove all stacks of stability on the target, stun for 2s if no stab was removed, 3s if stab was removed (yes a guaranteed stun). In addition to the 30 adrenaline gain make it recharge Berserk Mode if you are not in Berserk Mode.

> > > >

> > > > The above change would help with down time and add more options to game play. Do you use Headbutt to initiate BMode, extend it, or reenter it once it ends?

> > >

> > > I like these especially 1 and 3. But I'm extremely concerned about those stats being removed from Fatal Frenzy. I'll take my +300 power and -300 toughness honestly, I want to actually do damage and I sure as hell won't be if you remove that power...

> >

> > I feel somewhat the same way and contemplated adding in there that Quickness grants +150 power and +150 condition damage, but felt that would be overloading it. The extra Quickness would help damage output though so it probably balances out in the long run.

>

> Mmm still not convinced but I really like the burst of aggression idea. Would be super nice for my agility sigil on GS.

>

 

/shrug. Just trying to think of something less lazy than +/- stats but also synergizes with the other minor trait. Got another idea?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

This may not be place for this but a qol fix I'd like is to fix bullscharge and rush from bugging half the time making me charge in opposite directions or the to common gs f1 going right thru the knocked down enemy doing no damage like the enemy isn't tangible lol

[Inguz.6493]

Couple this with [Eternal Champion](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eternal_Champion) and [shake it Off!](http://https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shake_It_Off) and then you have an unstoppable killing machine. I see where you are going with this, but it would be too much for PvP where you'd be able to chase someone across the map in the blink of an eye with Swiftness, Superspeed, 2x Condition removal, Stunbreak, Stability and (with greatsword and Bull's Charge) three significant movement abilities. If you catch up to someone that can kite then they are dead already without these changes.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Inguz.6493" said:

> Couple this with [Eternal Champion](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eternal_Champion) and [shake it Off!](http://https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shake_It_Off) and then you have an unstoppable killing machine. I see where you are going with this, but it would be too much for PvP where you'd be able to chase someone across the map in the blink of an eye with Swiftness, Superspeed, 2x Condition removal, Stunbreak, Stability and (with greatsword and Bull's Charge) three significant movement abilities. If you catch up to someone that can kite then they are dead already without these changes.

 

Last stand is kind of required for what you are going for there, and this does not mean PvP splits for EC aren't warranted. Still that would be a DPS lose, and I am fine with a Berserker bunker build. More variety is a good thing.

 

What would you propose?

[Lighter.5631]

berserker's main problem compared to core/spellbreaker is that's it's require the most adrenaline yet it has the least adrenaline gain over time, it has burst gain, but all rely on utilities and has no reliable adrenaline build up after they removed adrenaline gain from rage skills.

 

also not like reaper you can remain shroud as long as you have energy to benefit from super speed, berserk is short duration and can hardly pull off multiple bursts. same problem, lacking small adrenaline gain over time.

 

berserker need trait like loss aversion or need base adrenaline gain over time in berserk mode.

 

 

To be honest there are a tons of problem with Berserker right now, Arc Divider in berserker amulet in pvp does like 5k, holo/rev can constantly pull out that number without triple restriction and classes like holo/rev are more survivable in close combat, with no mentioning of their kitting ability, simply in fight sustain.

[Inguz.6493]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Inguz.6493" said:

> > Couple this with [Eternal Champion](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eternal_Champion) and [shake it Off!](http://https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shake_It_Off) and then you have an unstoppable killing machine. I see where you are going with this, but it would be too much for PvP where you'd be able to chase someone across the map in the blink of an eye with Swiftness, Superspeed, 2x Condition removal, Stunbreak, Stability and (with greatsword and Bull's Charge) three significant movement abilities. If you catch up to someone that can kite then they are dead already without these changes.

>

> Last stand is kind of required for what you are going for there, and this does not mean PvP splits for EC aren't warranted. Still that would be a DPS lose, and I am fine with a Berserker bunker build. More variety is a good thing.

>

> What would you propose?

 

It's tricky, I made a berserker spec for PvP with hilarious results, consistent 14k Whirling Axe (axe 5) on Bull's Charge stun, but it more or less only works in team fights or when you have help with locking targets down. What I'd suggest is applying 1-2s Cripple on burst hit. Just a little bit more that makes you able to run up to enemies and hit something. I'd often find myself adrenaline starved because all I could get in was a few hits and then it's a kiting game again. With a Cripple, people could still clear conditions, use their abilities and the like, just make it so that they are more susceptible to getting hit.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> berserker's main problem compared to core/spellbreaker is that's it's require the most adrenaline yet it has the least adrenaline gain over time, it has burst gain, but all rely on utilities and has no reliable adrenaline build up after they removed adrenaline gain from rage skills.

>

> also not like reaper you can remain shroud as long as you have energy to benefit from super speed, berserk is short duration and can hardly pull off multiple bursts. same problem, lacking small adrenaline gain over time.

>

> berserker need trait like loss aversion or need base adrenaline gain over time in berserk mode.

>

>

> To be honest there are a tons of problem with Berserker right now, Arc Divider in berserker amulet in pvp does like 5k, holo/rev can constantly pull out that number without triple restriction and classes like holo/rev are more survivable in close combat, with no mentioning of their kitting ability, simply in fight sustain.

 

All good points, my suggestions above are merely a starting point. I suspect Anet expectd you to solve adrenaline gain from your other two trait lines. But returning adrenaline to the rage skills is a good suggestion.

[Lighter.5631]

also have u tried rune of speed with burst mastery, it's basically the same as the change your proposed

[cryorion.9532]

Some of ideas mentioned below are not just QoL changes but also buffs (just saying in case someone is going to cry about it).

 

Superspeed on quickness gain would be really good. I see no issue with more superspeed uptime for Berserker as it makes sense.

 

Adding more superspeed on Fatal Frenzy would probably be too much of superspeed for Berserker, so I would leave it as it is, but reduced toughness penalty. Berserker has multiple trade offs, not only being unable to use core bursts which is the biggest trade off (and imo should be the only trade off), but -300 toughness on top of that is pretty stupid (when we compare trade offs of other specs). Look at scrapper's Impact Savant. Why doesn't Soulbeast also have -300 toughness in addition to not being able to swap pets, when they are suddenly dps monsters when merged?

Reduce the toughness penalty to 150 (or remove it completely) and keep the Eternal Champion trait at 300 toughness bonus. Berserker would have offensive and defensive grandmaster traits to choose from.

 

Head Butt change would be most likely broken in PvE, but sure why not, I would love more frequent Berserk uptime. Probably more balanced would be that hitting with Head Butt outside of Berserk would reduce Berserk CD, by e.g. 5 second.

Remove Head Butt self stability removal. Make it prolong Berserk duration by 4 seconds (same as Wild Blow, Blood Reckoning can remain at 2 seconds).

 

I would also suggest killing Head Butt -> Outrage combo. Rework Outrage to be better on its own, give it additional effects when breaking stun (not berserk duration increase).

Bring back adrenaline gain on rage skill use.

Give Sundering Leap 1 second daze and make the skill remove all movement impending conditions, not only immobilize. The daze is meant for interrupts and sigil synergy.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> also have u tried rune of speed with burst mastery, it's basically the same as the change your proposed

 

Rune of speed is +66% move speed. It is quite nice, but it is not super speed. I used it alot prior to warclaw coming out but got tired of running ahead of the zerg.

 

> @"cryorion.9532" said:

> Some of ideas mentioned below are not just QoL changes but also buffs (just saying in case someone is going to cry about it).

>

> Superspeed on quickness gain would be really good. I see no issue with more superspeed uptime for Berserker as it makes sense.

I though so as well.

> Adding more superspeed on Fatal Frenzy would probably be too much of superspeed for Berserker, so I would leave it as it is, but reduced toughness penalty. Berserker has multiple trade offs, not only being unable to use core bursts which is the biggest trade off (and imo should be the only trade off), but -300 toughness on top of that is pretty stupid (when we compare trade offs of other specs). Look at scrapper's Impact Savant. Why doesn't Soulbeast also have -300 toughness in addition to not being able to swap pets, when they are suddenly dps monsters when merged?

 

All fair points, the duration on the superspeed could decrease some if needed. The tradeoffs are not really even handed, just look at Firebrand... I'd rather have no Toughness penalty since we lost all of core F1s.

 

> Reduce the toughness penalty to 150 (or remove it completely) and keep the Eternal Champion trait at 300 toughness bonus. Berserker would have offensive and defensive grandmaster traits to choose from.

I agree but remove the toughness penalty completely.

 

> Head Butt change would be most likely broken in PvE, but sure why not, I would love more frequent Berserk uptime. Probably more balanced would be that hitting with Head Butt outside of Berserk would reduce Berserk CD, by e.g. 5 second.

 

It would not change the 'Golem' benchmark. You can down it pretty much within the span of one berserk mode rotation, it would just be a quality of life upgrade in OW or FotM for moving from mob to mob.

> Remove Head Butt self stability removal. Make it prolong Berserk duration by 4 seconds (same as Wild Blow, Blood Reckoning can remain at 2 seconds).

>

> I would also suggest killing Head Butt -> Outrage combo. Rework Outrage to be better on its own, give it additional effects when breaking stun (not berserk duration increase).

 

I agree, what would you propose on Outrage?

> Bring back adrenaline gain on rage skill use.

:+1:

> Give Sundering Leap 1 second daze and make the skill remove all movement impending conditions, not only immobilize. The daze is meant for interrupts and sigil synergy.

Perhaps, but it may need 900 range for that to work best. The current range feels too short imho.

 

 

[Skotlex.7580]

I'd be happy if rage skills reduced berserk cooldown when used outside said mode. Then their benefit makes senses either way: use during to extend berserk, or use outside to recover it faster.

 

For competitive modes, it's all about ensuring headbutt connects in order to start dishing damage. If berserker could reliably and quickly jump into its mode at engage, then that would probably be too strong.

[cryorion.9532]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> I agree, what would you propose on Outrage?

 

Give Outrage Fury when breaking out of Stun, it is pretty useless on Wild Blow. Fury in general is lacking on power Berserker compared to Core/Spellbreaker, due to missing Arcing Slice. Nothing special but still handy.

Alternatively, if the lack of Fury is intentional, give Outrage endurance refill when breaking out of stun, 50 endurance for 25 second CD seems reasonable. This rewards fast reaction if you don't have endurance and you get prepared for big hit.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"cryorion.9532" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > I agree, what would you propose on Outrage?

>

> Give Outrage Fury when breaking out of Stun, it is pretty useless on Wild Blow. Fury in general is lacking on power Berserker compared to Core/Spellbreaker, due to missing Arcing Slice. Nothing special but still handy.

> Alternatively, if the lack of Fury is intentional, give Outrage endurance refill when breaking out of stun, 50 endurance for 25 second CD seems reasonable. This rewards fast reaction if you don't have endurance and you get prepared for big hit.

 

I think I prefer the endurance over the fury. You can get fury from runes or axe MH.

[Infusion.7149]

Waiting for all the PvE only players to scream at you for nerfing their power damage.

 

I would actually play berserker more often if your changes were implemented though, as I'd rather not deal with 300 less toughness just for a few thousand theoretical damage.

 

Would it make berserker a bit more sought after in competitive modes ? Definitely. The biggest problem currently with the toughness loss is you can't drop out of berserk like you can drop out of shroud , soulbeast merge, or photon forge or tomes. Head butt is more or less a joke after the damage was taken away yet it still self stuns. With core warrior you can just use your burst even if it is level 1 adrenaline which helps weapons with mobility on burst (hammer or axe), albeit with a lower bonus from Berserker's power or otherwise. When tactics picked up added sustain it became semi-attractive against spellbreaker, but my warrior has been spellbreaker since PoF basically. Full counter adds extra depth to it rather than just wailing on a target ; being able to remove protection and stability is quite important.

 

I'd rather see Fatal Frenzy have something less boring than a flat + power / condition with a huge toughness loss. The refreshing of burst of aggression would be a net improvement when you don't have quickness application from external sources because +50% attack speed helps far more than +300 power.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Infusion.7149" said:

> Waiting for all the PvE only players to scream at you for nerfing their power damage.

>

> I would actually play berserker more often if your changes were implemented though, as I'd rather not deal with 300 less toughness just for a few thousand theoretical damage.

>

> Would it make berserker a bit more sought after in competitive modes ? Definitely. The biggest problem currently with the toughness loss is you can't drop out of berserk like you can drop out of shroud , soulbeast merge, or photon forge or tomes. Head butt is more or less a joke after the damage was taken away yet it still self stuns. With core warrior you can just use your burst even if it is level 1 adrenaline which helps weapons with mobility on burst (hammer or axe), albeit with a lower bonus from Berserker's power or otherwise. When tactics picked up added sustain it became semi-attractive against spellbreaker, but my warrior has been spellbreaker since PoF basically. Full counter adds extra depth to it rather than just wailing on a target ; being able to remove protection and stability is quite important.

>

> I'd rather see Fatal Frenzy have something less boring than a flat + power / condition with a huge toughness loss. The refreshing of burst of aggression would be a net improvement when you don't have quickness application from external sources because +50% attack speed helps far more than +300 power.

 

That was why I made that suggestion. You are right that it may reduce the golem benchmark, but having a way to refresh BMode CD helps Berserker everywhere except raids and they would would still be taken for banners.

[Lighter.5631]

now i just had this crazy idea, a trait that turns berserk into a leap skill and berserk activate at the end of the leap

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> now i just had this crazy idea, a trait that turns berserk into a leap skill and berserk activate at the end of the leap

 

Or a AoE centered on you and your target (both locations, kind of like a shatter skill). That way you get your burst traits to proc with rifle and keep the gap.

[Sobx.1758]

Ah, so you guys decided to go full fiction on these ideas. I thought the point was to propose sometimething that actually has a chance of being implemented into the game instead of a mini pre-nerf scourge shroud.

[Lighter.5631]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > now i just had this crazy idea, a trait that turns berserk into a leap skill and berserk activate at the end of the leap

>

> Or a AoE centered on you and your target (both locations, kind of like a shatter skill). That way you get your burst traits to proc with rifle and keep the gap.

 

this makes no sense tho....

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > now i just had this crazy idea, a trait that turns berserk into a leap skill and berserk activate at the end of the leap

> >

> > Or a AoE centered on you and your target (both locations, kind of like a shatter skill). That way you get your burst traits to proc with rifle and keep the gap.

>

> this makes no sense tho....

 

Well asking for the leap, might as well go whole hog.

 

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> Ah, so you guys decided to go full fiction on these ideas. I thought the point was to propose sometimething that actually has a chance of being implemented into the game instead of a mini pre-nerf scourge shroud.

 

I was joking

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> I was joking

 

Welp... I just don't know anymore with what I've seen on this forum. :D