Why (and When) Soulbeast is a good choice for an squad in WvW.

[anduriell.6280]

So in this other thread i explain [why soulbeast is not wanted in an squad and i give some ideas to make the class work in squad comps](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/103867/why-soulbeast-is-not-wanted-in-squads-wvw). That thread is talking about organized squads in discord with a core guild with pugs to increase the squad numbers.

 

So in those cases Soulbeast is clearly underwhelming, limited by their ranged weapon with the projectile hate creep in the game lately (Auramancer is a thing now, Firebrand brought a ranged Reflect in Low cooldown, Scrappers are a thing now more than ever) and the lacking stances and stance sharing. That is the norm with organized squads do not expect a ranger perform better than a 20 something position in ArcDPS as damage, cleanses and very low support in an squad of 40-50.

 

But what happens in a full pug squad? Following examples are from a voice squad in discord, full pugs but decent composition. Reset day in EBG, veterans know what to expect.


So the results in different battles against enemy blobs where nobody was doing a good job (not our squad and definitely not the enemy squad as there were no reflects up at all if any ) the soulbeast can shine.

 


4th position in cleanses and 7th in damage

 


7th in cleanses and 9th in damage.

 


1st in damage, 5th in cleanses.

 

The results were consistent all night, as such it wasn't an exception to the norm, placed in the first 10 places in damage and cleanses sometimes surpassing Firebrands and scourges in cleanses and dps output respectively.

 

Still this shows that in pugs it is better to have a player whom feels comfortable and enjoy the class he/she is playing instead bullying them into using one of the meta classes.

 

There is no point to try to min/max a pug squad and a Soulbeast is as good choice as a Firebrand or an Scourge. Still it would be nice if the soulbeast would get the changes needed so it can shine also in organized squads.

 

 

 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Trait/Utility wise. Soulbeast has always been a amazing class for wvw Standards but good lord the weapon choice.

 

 

[Sovereign.1093]

There is a way if you want to specialize. Seek and destroy enemy commanders. No matter how strong the blob or guild. Their skills go down by 1/2 once their com is dead.

 

Caveat this post will get hate.

 

 

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> There is no point to try to min/max a pug squad and a Soulbeast is as good choice as a Firebrand or an Scourge.

That was a very long winded thread just to say this. Literally anything goes in a pug squad but it's usually not at all up to the players but rather how "hardcore" the pug commander wants to be. Many kick rangers on sight. Some leave them in until the squad is full. A few dont care either way.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

the remaining point is: every other meta dmg class is more useful, unless they aren't good (yet) at doing their job.

 

for pugs, literally anything works. random warrior bubbles of pugs could stop pushes, random holos could provide superspeed for quicker pushes, random mesmerspecs can also support a lot etc - on equal skill base, ranger and thief specs still are less group boosting.

[enkidu.5937]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> Still this shows that in pugs it is better to have a player whom feels comfortable and enjoy the class he/she is playing instead bullying them into using one of the meta classes.

Thats just basic knowledge and naturally deeper explanations or screenshot evidence shouldnt be necessary at all. A guy that plays e. g. Druid in PvE, roaming and zerg will be more usefull to the group than switching to e. g. FB for that 5-10 minutes of zerg fights he / she is taking part in per week.

 

Nonetheless, coms want to command (surprise^^) and ppk-focused WvW elites want to be among the top 10%. But you cant command a zerg, were 20 ppl are not in voice chat, were everyone plays an individually tailored build or class, and you cant command a cloud. You also wont get among the top 10% with such a comp.

 

The holy trinity of zergs (voice chat + cookie cutter builds + 50 ppl stacking at the com), was never ment to optimize (aka metaplay) a common pub zerg. Its all about trying to turn casuals into some esport fight elite :# (to exaggerate just a little bit on that :p )

[Infusion.7149]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > There is no point to try to min/max a pug squad and a Soulbeast is as good choice as a Firebrand or an Scourge.

> That was a very long winded thread just to say this. Literally anything goes in a pug squad but it's usually not at all up to the players but rather how "hardcore" the pug commander wants to be. Many kick rangers on sight. Some leave them in until the squad is full. A few dont care either way.

 

Do you know why they kick rangers on sight? Because probably 90% of rangers don't even stay with the group on pushes and then those that do often don't stow pet or merge when stealth gyro is deployed. Those can run outside the squad and it would be the same as if they are in the squad. Imagine if every commander had to prescreen every ranger in their squad: that is a logistical nightmare when "can you please play another class" is literally one easy request.

 

Do you know how frustrating it is when you veil or stealth gyro and some random ranger follows you with their pet and minipets? Or when rangers players play some sustain build with no party support whatsoever and just fire longbow all day?

 

Also because there's no boon rip as a ranger you're not competing against scourges: if the squad **is a full 50** you're competing with power heralds (permafury on 10 people), power weavers (which are oftentimes run as aura tempests as well), staff daredevils (they have boon rip on steal but not much else), DPS scrapper (which can still slot med kit , purge gyro, and stealth gyro), DPS berserker, etc for a spot. Definitely not replacing a guardian spot (stability, protection, aegis), nor a scrapper (cleanses, lightning field , stealth gyro), nor a scourge (boon rip, well bomb), nor a mallyx herald (resistance and boon rip). The core mesmer pictured is a likely candidate to get kicked as well because unless running inspiration and/or support utilities (null field, veil, feedback, mantra of concentration, power cleanse, etc) it provides nothing for the squad it can't do outside the squad (i.e. portal).

 

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Infusion.7149" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > There is no point to try to min/max a pug squad and a Soulbeast is as good choice as a Firebrand or an Scourge.

> > That was a very long winded thread just to say this. Literally anything goes in a pug squad but it's usually not at all up to the players but rather how "hardcore" the pug commander wants to be. Many kick rangers on sight. Some leave them in until the squad is full. A few dont care either way.

>

> Do you know why they kick rangers on sight? Because probably 90% of rangers don't even stay with the group on pushes and then those that do often don't stow pet or merge when stealth gyro is deployed. Those can run outside the squad and it would be the same as if they are in the squad. Imagine if every commander had to prescreen every ranger in their squad: that is a logistical nightmare when "can you please play another class" is literally one easy request.

>

> Do you know how frustrating it is when you veil or stealth gyro and some random ranger follows you with their pet and minipets? Or when rangers players play some sustain build with no party support whatsoever and just fire longbow all day?

>

> Also because there's no boon rip as a ranger you're not competing against scourges: if the squad **is a full 50** you're competing with power heralds (permafury on 10 people), power weavers (which are oftentimes run as aura tempests as well), staff daredevils (they have boon rip on steal but not much else), DPS scrapper (which can still slot med kit , purge gyro, and stealth gyro), DPS berserker, etc for a spot. Definitely not replacing a guardian spot (stability, protection, aegis), nor a scrapper (cleanses, lightning field , stealth gyro), nor a scourge (boon rip, well bomb), nor a mallyx herald (resistance and boon rip). The core mesmer pictured is a likely candidate to get kicked as well because unless running inspiration and/or support utilities (null field, veil, feedback, mantra of concentration, power cleanse, etc) it provides nothing for the squad it can't do outside the squad (i.e. portal).

>

TL;DR it depends on how "hardcore" the commander wants to be.

 

[Sovereign.1093]

Everyone wants to fit in with their own specialty. Explain how you can be an asset and any rational com will welcome you.

[Shroud.2307]

Protip; being in squad doesn't suddenly make you viable, accepted or good. You're perfectly capable of contributing outside a squad.

 

A Ranger's job is to snipe and to destroy siege. You are not there to tab target to get as many tags for loot as you can, and you are not there to push with a commander where you will do nothing other than appealing to those who think you're useless if you don't.

 

Ranger's can be plenty valuable if they know what they're doing. Unfortunately, 99% of them do not, they take every slur about their class as a personal insult, and think passively auto attacking from max range occasionally using Rapid Fire with no purpose other than that it's not on cooldown is helping.

 

You can be a part of a zerg without being literally inside of that ball 100% of the time. Stay in it while it's moving around the map and split off during fights to snipe the proper targets. Claim high ground, blind spots and terrain that cannot be teleported to for safety, and pay attention to the flow of the fight so as not to be overwhelmed and alone.

 

Roaming classes have a difficult job because they need to be more situationally aware and comfortable with their class, but have the benefit of being their own commander during fights. They don't need to be following the tag closely, they just need to pay attention to where it is.

 

If you are trying to do some crazy mental gymnastics to justify your place in a squad, or creating builds for roles other classes fulfill better for reasons other than it's fun, then you're doing it wrong.

[Sovereign.1093]

Sword warhorn staff druid. Always wondered how it works. Or axe warhorn staff. Or staff gs

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> Sword warhorn staff druid. Always wondered how it works. Or axe warhorn staff. Or staff gs

 

Binding Roots Druids are at least effective in this current meta, as they can immob players during a melee push, leaving them out of position from tag, and easy meat for your scavengers to pick apart. Not so good against a cloud, but that can be said of many things.

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > Sword warhorn staff druid. Always wondered how it works. Or axe warhorn staff. Or staff gs

>

> Binding Roots Druids are at least effective in this current meta, as they can immob players during a melee push, leaving them out of position from tag, and easy meat for your scavengers to pick apart. Not so good against a cloud, but that can be said of many things.

 

If so, out of combat and change to pew pew in cloud :3.

[Junkpile.7439]

Who cares. Try hards like you ruin casual gamemode. :#

[anduriell.6280]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > > Sword warhorn staff druid. Always wondered how it works. Or axe warhorn staff. Or staff gs

> >

> > Binding Roots Druids are at least effective in this current meta, as they can immob players during a melee push, leaving them out of position from tag, and easy meat for your scavengers to pick apart. Not so good against a cloud, but that can be said of many things.

>

> If so, out of combat and change to pew pew in cloud :3.

 

Only issue is Ranger weapons are single target, so you won't be able to immob more than one target with ancient seeds.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Soulbeast / Longbow ranger in general has always been very viable and a solid class for getting picks in WvW fights. The problem is doing so correctly requires a level of field awareness that 99% of ranger players just don't have. Add to the fact that WvW rangers are usually significantly less skilled than rangers from sPvP and it kind of doesn't surprise me most groups would rather just add another AoE-spammer class to their roster. An AoE spec can be half asleep at their keyboard and still be useful. A Ranger really can't, but most of them are half asleep anyways so gg.

 

 

 

[mulzi.8273]

I play ranger like I play reaper: i do not join the zerg, but skirt the fringes picking off (or pulling int he case of reaper) enemies that stray from their herd during pushes. But as others have said, it takes field awareness to know how to stay on the fringes but close enough to the zerg not to get picked off yourself. You also have to be somewhat self reliant as you wont get the boons from the zerg.

 

One of my favorite, though probably not popular here, tactics is to commander snipe. Weaving in and around my zerg pulling/sniping a commander can really turn the tide of battle. You dont even need to kill them. Merely pulling and focusing fire is enough for them to back out of a push, letting your zerg go on the offensive and pick off the backline that was too slow to follow..

[Jeddite.8620]

at the time when pof came out, i was main ranger. i tried to make a group support build with soulbeast.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEEiNssC2DLiFyIxyVy/dWirTA-zxQYvom1D+MSVKUtKQnzifzAA-e

 

fury: warhorn / moa stance + spotter

protection: heal / moa stance / protect me (self)

condi clean: bear (f2)/ heal / spirit of nature + resistance (f3 bearform)

stabi: dolyak stance + ae stunbreak form protect me

regen: warhorn / heal / moa stance

 

healing was a problem because, even if you had your pets on no aggro, they are somewhere around you. so it was pretty hard to heal a focused moving target with f2 and "invigorating bound".

if there would be no timer on this trait and higher ae-range maybe this build would be viable. but so it was only a fun build.

 

but nowadays where there is no pet switch "in fight" possible we dont need to talk about it :/

 

[TheSun.4321]

Soulbeast is sometimes uses by fight/gvg groups now for the beast pull into immobilize, it can be really strong but it requires a lot of coordination.

[Balthazzarr.1349]

I’ve been a ranger main like forever. I play ranger in a group, I think, better than most... BUT in organized squads I play Spellbreaker these days, and havoc finds me playing mostly burn guard. When I’m roaming or just feel like messing around I run my Soulbeast. Overall it’s just not a decent choice anymore. My burn guard puts out way more damage than my soulbeast ever does.