Where are we going from here with the achievement points rivalry?

[Radiobiology.6185]

I would say remove the daily AP cap, introduce a hard cap for AP at lets say 60k and increase the achievement rewards to actually give something decent. 2 gold and 1 laurel is a joke.

 

Edit: First one to 60k wins!

[WorldofBay.8160]

first one to x is not really a fair sport, especially when daily rewards happen. that again is just an environment where it is important when and where you were born which this famous place called the internet never should care the tiniest bit about.

[ReaverKane.7598]

The only thing that could remedy this would be something that we now know won't happen...

Which would be them implementing repeatable season 1 living world, and bringing back it's achievements. Seeing how they implemented that in the previous update...

We'll never get back Season 1 (which was almost impossible due to most of the instances from that content already having been divvied up into fractals).

[Funky.4861]

> @"Wojciech.8024" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

>

> > > Achievements are personal, you should ask ArenaNet for more of them (in term of both quantity and points) and more titles, not to receive a compensation to be able to reach some guys.

> > You might have missed the point where he wants the "compensation" to apply to others, because he himself doesn't need it.

>

> Both sides are partially correct and partially wrong. I have some exclusive ones and miss some of them as well (not a particular event/set as a whole, but here and there one can find achievements I did not manage to finish in time). But generally speaking - yes @"Astralporing.1957" you are right. Fair competition is what I am definitely in for.

>

>

 

Actually Wojciech, you are not looking for fair competition at all. You want to win, to be first or at least higher than you are, by artificial means. If you were around for LS1 and didn't get those achievements because that wasn't your focus at the time, it's frankly disgusting that you want them to somehow be retroactively added to your account, unless you'd be happy for them to be added to everyone elses' account (but that doesn't fix your problem). Why should you get something for nothing?

 

It's like being in a store which has a line on exclusive items. If you were there during the promotion, you had the chance to get them. The promotion ends and someone else comes along, finds out about it and is now demanding to buy the limited-edition items even though they can't be bought anymore. If you didn't get what you wanted while it was on offer, why should you be entitled to get it afterwards?

 

Like i said before, the gap can't be bridged fairly, so don't bridge it. Your only argument is your sense of entitlement. You snooze, you lose.

 

[Ayrilana.1396]

How about we drop the facade of not being able to compete with the top AP players and just focus on what you’re really trying to achieve: you just want more easier AP in order to get the armor skins. That’s pretty much how every one of these threads goes. Unless you’re close to the max amount of AP available to you, the missing AP in the game isn’t really an issue.

 

One of the most detrimental things you can do to the achievement system is water it down further with daily achievements.

[TPMN.1483]

I don’t think it’s healthy trying to chase all the AP where it’s either gold, time gated or a massive grind and will ensure you spend a large number of hours doing things that you may not find fun. Take it easy, play what bits of content you want and you’ll get AP eventually - sometimes mix it up with trying to get a specific achievement you missed.

 

I have known people who only chase AP and if there is no AP behind it - they won’t do it. The leaderboard is meant to be a bit of fun - not a massive rivalry to show off between your friends.

 

I was 200 AP behind a friend of mine for a long time, I’m now 300 AP ahead and comfortably in the top 100 (NA). Does it matter to me - *no*. It did let me get a pretty back piece -)

 

We did have a bit of a laugh how I stormed ahead, this was due to actually doing SAB this year for a change after putting it off for so long and had some spare time available.

 

There are lots more AP - I could get however it’s locked behind game modes which are not fun or hardly played by anyone (Keg brawl anyone ?!?) or just credit card gold obtained (BLTP skins). I just accept each living story brings a bunch more AP, if I keep playing it will go up eventually.

[Wojciech.8024]

> @"Funky.4861" said:

 

> Actually Wojciech, you are not looking for fair competition at all. You want to win, to be first or at least higher than you are, by artificial means. If you were around for LS1 and didn't get those achievements because that wasn't your focus at the time, it's frankly disgusting that you want them to somehow be retroactively added to your account, unless you'd be happy for them to be added to everyone elses' account (but that doesn't fix your problem).

 

Man what the hell are you talking about?! I am not asking to have them added. I am asking to get the chance aka to get the POSSIBILITY to get them by doing EXACTLY THE SAME STUFF that was required long ago, or in case it is not possible (because the content can't be restored), to be able to get them via the EQUIVALENT of work, or EVEN MORE work (if that will make it fairer). And yes I am happy if everyone gets a chance to get them as well.

 

>It's like being in a store which has a line on exclusive items. If you were there during the promotion, you had the chance to get them. The promotion ends and someone else comes along, finds out about it and is now demanding to buy the limited-edition items even though they can't be bought anymore. If you didn't get what you wanted while it was on offer, why should you be entitled to get it afterwards?

 

That would be ok if the general policy of AN was to make **ALL** of the achievements available for some time and then making them gone forever. However, the general approach AN takes is to make them available all the time. The LS1 is the one and only exception that is not in line with the overall policy. Thus I do not concern Guild Wars 2 achievements as a rare and exclusive goods. Almost everything is exactly the opposite and thus I suggest to have LS1 changed so it can have the status as all of the other content has regarding achievements.

 

 

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> How about we drop the facade of not being able to compete with the top AP players and just focus on what you’re really trying to achieve: you just want more easier AP in order to get the armor skins. That’s pretty much how every one of these threads goes. Unless you’re close to the max amount of AP available to you, the missing AP in the game isn’t really an issue.

 

Another person not able to read what I already wrote. I have 41 775 AP atm so YES I am pretty close to the max of AP available to me and no I do not need the armor skins I already have. And accusing other people of hiding behind "facade of not being able to compete with the top AP players" without even checking their status is not the right way. The fact that the majority of people do so does not justify such an approach. As you can see not only them ask to have them available once again. To cut off further speculations here comes the print screen from the leaderboards https://ibb.co/6mR365J. Or if you think it s a fake here comes the direct link https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/eu/achievements?page=2.

 

>you just want more easier AP

 

NO, NO, and again NO! I just want them OBTAINABLE. They can be as hard as the hardest (whatever it means) AP in the game.

 

> @"TPMN.1483" said:

> I don’t think it’s healthy trying to chase all the AP where it’s either gold, time gated or a massive grind and will ensure you spend a large number of hours doing things that you may not find fun. Take it easy, play what bits of content you want and you’ll get AP eventually

 

Not really. I literally maxed out all of them from PvE, missing just some form PVP and WvW. Saying "you’ll get AP eventually" is far away from being a true statement in my case. Saying it is not healthy is your opinion, about which I personally do not really care. I do what I like and that's enough for me to keep going on.

 

> There are lots more AP - I could get however it’s locked behind game modes which are not fun or hardly played by anyone (Keg brawl anyone ?!?) or just credit card gold obtained (BLTP skins). I just accept each living story brings a bunch more AP, if I keep playing it will go up eventually.

 

Does the fact you can still do them changes anything? All of them (including Kegbrawl you've mentioned) are done already in my case. Of course, you will go up in terms of the amount you have. But you will not get higher in the ranking unless players above you resign intentionally from making progress (otherwise all people will go up by exactly the same amount so effectively no change will happen). Anything to add?

 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

It's not true that only Living World Season One APs are the exception and the only ones no longer possible to acquire.

Every Festival has APs that can only be acquired that year. Also, WvW Fall Tournament, which was held after Living World Season 2 began. And, all the other retired or historical content that awarded APs.

[Wojciech.8024]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

>all players will be capable of reaching the current top regardless if missing achievements becoming available again or not.

 

Can you explain to me how a newly created account can get to the position on the top of the leaderboards list when there are players who have 1500 APs no longer obtainable? Cuz simple math can show that the top player will always be 1500 AP above providing both accounts do all newly added APs. Of course, I assume all players from the list will keep playing on and on, but it will not surprise me much if the majority of them will stop playing only when something serious happens in their life or the end of the game comes.

 

> You didn't answer the question on why it's a problem who climbs above who. Is it simply for bragging rights?

 

More or less yes. Just like in any competitive environment like, let's say, FIFA World Cup.

 

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> It's not true that only Living World Season One APs are the exception and the only ones no longer possible to acquire. Also, WvW Fall Tournament, which was held after Living World Season 2 began. And, all the other retired or historical content that awarded APs.

 

Yes, you are right. Still, these still sum up to a small minority of content making them an exception to the overall approach.

 

> Every Festival has APs that can only be acquired that year.

 

Not sure which ones you mean. I do not recall any achievements like this in 2019 or 2020. Prove me wrong.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Are we only talking about what can be acquired in 2019 and 2020? I thought it was about APs from the past. There are some from 2019, at this time, though. Not including Living World Season One APs, there's more than 4400 APs from Historical/Retired Achievements. Not sure how 'small' that is.

 

Regardless, it's not just Living World Season One.

[Wojciech.8024]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> Are we only talking about what can be acquired in 2019 and 2020? I thought it was about APs from the past. There are some from 2019, at this time, though. Not including Living World Season One APs, there's more than 4400 APs from Historical/Retired Achievements. Not sure how 'small' that is.

>

> Regardless, it's not just Living World Season One.

 

Well, the term "all" includes every single festival. Not sure if 4400 is the exact number, but let's assume it is. Still, it is ~10% of the available volume. I believe it can be described as a minority especially when opposed to 90%.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Sure. I'm sure everyone feels the same way.

Be aware, if the game doesn't last more than 20 years, those 50 AP Achievements from past years won't be able to be acquired. Let's hope for longevity, and that those AP Achievements are never extended.

Good luck on your suggestion.

[Wojciech.8024]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> Sure. I'm sure everyone feels the same way.

> Be aware, if the game doesn't last more than 20 years, those 50 AP Achievements from past years won't be able to be acquired. Let's hope for longevity, and that those AP Achievements are never extended.

> Good luck on your suggestion.

 

I agree that this design does not make much sense, especially when we concern the fact that this 20-year cap can't be reached in the twentieth year of the game existence as it was introduced long after the intro. For me, it was just a lazy way of making it, on one hand, limited and on the other long enough to never come back to it in order to extend it. But in pure theory these are obtainable xD

[casualkenny.9817]

I just wish the daily ap itself was not capped, but the total ap contribution from dailies to the leader board ap value retains the cap.

 

That way everyone (pardon my hyperbole) wins, the 500 or so ppl who have this rivalry thing, and the unknown number of ppl (including me) who really just want that artificial sense of continual progress when doing the dailies, as well as those little 500ap benchmarks.

 

But back to your topic. If the top ppl on your leader board are okay with it, you can always ask Anet+gw2eff to create a new ap value for non-retired aps (while retaining the absolute total), so the senior players don't get cheated of the aps they worked for, and the newer players can console themselves with the 2nd leader board that measures total achievables.

 

Anet is likely to have the ability to, since they currently do show the separate and total values for daily + game

[Funky.4861]

The thing is, if they make those 1500 retired AP attainable by everyone, those with this petty sense of rivalry will also get them, meaning you won't have advanced in the leaderboard much, if at all.

 

There appears to be two issues here:

1) you're missing 1500 AP which are now unobtainable

and

2) you can't advance your position on the leaderboard above those who have some or all of those AP as well as the achievements you also have.

 

If anet addresses 1) that will not change 2). If anet addresses 2) it will be unfair to those who worked for those AP whilst they were available.

[Wojciech.8024]

> @"Funky.4861" said:

>1) you're missing 1500 AP which are now unobtainable (...) If anet addresses 1) that will not change

 

Not really. Let's say there is a guy who has 42 200 AP and he has all 1500 AP done and another one who has 41 500 and 500/1000 done. Well if they make the missing ones available again the second one will most likely climb above the first one. Of course, at some point, they can have an equal amount, but it is not the point.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

How will they create content that only some players can complete for AP? If the Devs could do that, would they have not done that with the latest release of those instances from Season 1?

Any content put in the game that has APs associated with it will allow everyone to earn the AP.

[Zaraki.5784]

The only solution to make everyone on par is to slowly reintroduce those historical achievements.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Wojciech.8024" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> >all players will be capable of reaching the current top regardless if missing achievements becoming available again or not.

>

> Can you explain to me how a newly created account can get to the position on the top of the leaderboards list when there are players who have 1500 APs no longer obtainable? Cuz simple math can show that the top player will always be 1500 AP above providing both accounts do all newly added APs. Of course, I assume all players from the list will keep playing on and on, but it will not surprise me much if the majority of them will stop playing only when something serious happens in their life or the end of the game comes.

>

 

You are making some serious assumptions here.

1) That accounts do all newly added APs, this is easy to disprove, even the top player doesn't have all achievement points

2) That accounts without access to the missing AP, would have those AP if they existed. Similarly just checking the leaderboards is easy to see why this isn't the case

As you will see below, these assumptions ruin your idea of "competition".

 

The unobtainable achievement points are a minor inconvenience compared to playing without stop and earning all the achievements ever added.

 

> > You didn't answer the question on why it's a problem who climbs above who. Is it simply for bragging rights?

>

> More or less yes. Just like in any competitive environment like, let's say, FIFA World Cup.

 

You do realize if all achievements were available there would eventually be no "competition" anymore right? Just a flat at the top for all players. Provided your assumptions above remain true of course.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

How would the Devs reintroduce the WvW Tournaments? Tell some players they can't play? Tell some players they can play but won't be rewarded like others? I'm not sure that would go over very well.

How about Festivals? Many of the 'retired' APs are for doing the same things that are on offer now. Again, some players aren't allowed to complete the content? Or what?

How will some of the content be reintroduced? A lot of it wasn't instanced. Again, will the playerbase be satisfied with some players being rewarded more than others for the same participation?

This last week comes to mind.

[Etria.3642]

The original way swtor handled it was to simply remove all no longer available achievements. They are just gone. There was an outcry, so now they set any earned but no longer available ap's to zero.

 

I don't like either option, even though it does level the playing field. In fact, this is one of my points in favor of guild wars 2 when debating the two with friends. There was a very convoluted secret achievement on Makeb that came in sections. I personally only earned about 3/4 of it, but friends got the whole thing. Now it's simply gone. Yuck.

 

I think the solution to the competition is to just keep competing. Folks do eventually miss events, dislike certain achievements, etc.

[Wojciech.8024]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

 

> You are making some serious assumptions here.

> 1) That accounts do all newly added APs, this is easy to disprove, even the top player doesn't have all achievement points

> 2) That accounts without access to the missing AP, would have those AP if they existed. Similarly just checking the leaderboards is easy to see why this isn't the case

> As you will see below, these assumptions ruin your idea of "competition".

 

Well of course I do. And yes not all accounts do all newly added APs, but when we concern the top of the leaderboard - yes these assumptions are realistic. You may believe it or not, but yes players form the top of the ranking keep making ALL newly added achievements and keep progressing in the meantime on the long-term ones that they still miss. Of course, no one has all of them, but it does not change the fact that one of the main things that constitute the placement of players in top 100 of the leaderboards are those missing APs.

 

> @"Etria.3642" said:

> The original way swtor handled it was to simply remove all no longer available achievements. They are just gone. There was an outcry, so now they set any earned but no longer available ap's to zero.

>

> I don't like either option, even though it does level the playing field. In fact, this is one of my points in favor of guild wars 2 when debating the two with friends. There was a very convoluted secret achievement on Makeb that came in sections. I personally only earned about 3/4 of it, but friends got the whole thing. Now it's simply gone. Yuck.

>

> I think the solution to the competition is to just keep competing. Folks do eventually miss events, dislike certain achievements, etc.

 

 

There was already an interesting point mentioned that this can be solved by keeping these AP on the account-level but excluding them from the ranking. This is a somehow most neutral solution propossed so far. I still would prefer adding an equivalent, but this one would work too.

[jokke.6239]

I'm a returning player, only have like 13.5k points, but I think I got most LS1 achievements, so I guess i'm in that "special exclusive club".

The best would obviously be if A net could bring back LS1 in instanced content or something, but if that's not possible I don't see any problem with them increasing the daily for the amount of missing points you have from LS1, like suggested previously in here.

"But you didn't put in the effort"

.. Actually doing the daily for the points is probably much more effort than it was to complete those LW1 achievements (but I could be wrong, it's so long ago). So if anything, we still had an advantage.

They already allow you to get skins from LS1, so I don't see why new players shouldn't be able to get the same amount of points.

Time limited exclusive content is never a good thing in my opinion.

I don't think you should feel entitled to rewards just because you happened to be playing at that time.

For new players who care about achievement points, they already got a big task ahead of them, I don't think it's a healthy signal to send to new players that they won't ever be able to reach the veterans, if they put in the same effort.