Please change noglide and nomount zones for JPs

[kharmin.7683]

> @"casualkenny.9817" said:

> Just put moto at the start of every jp, and players who want to can talk to him to be transformed into an sab npc of ur choice, no skills no glider no mounts no nth. No additional rewards, just vanilla jp.

>

> (And let the rest of us continue to get quick dailies)

 

Why bother with that? Players can go through JP without mount or glider if they choose already. The problem as I see it is the perception that players who decide to use the tools provided in-game to complete the JP are considered cheaters even though such players don't win anything more than those who choose to do JPs without these tools.

 

Your suggestion would not be "fair" to some players which I still can't comprehend because everyone receives the same reward -- which is fair.

[coso.9173]

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > @"artcreator.4859" said:

> > I'm completely for this when you're giving out rewards and achievements for doing something, every player should have to do it the same way. You wouldnt give out the same rewards and achievement points for someone doing the easy mode and hard mode of a raid, so why would it be that way for JP's.

>

> It's a big assumption for one thing.

> Chances are most people who are using mounts to beat JP's did the achievements for all of them years before Mounts were even added to the game..

> I can certainly attest to that as beating all the JP's was one of the first active AP hunting things I did in the pre expansion years of Gw2.

>

> New Players on the other hand are going to have to pay or play a decent amount of Gw2 before they unlock the Springer, Griffon, Skyscale and Bond of Faith Mastery combination that most use to get around JP restrictions..

> Considering how easy these JP's actually are I highly doubt many players are going to leave them until they've gone through all that work to get those 3 mounts and the Bond.. specially when Mesmers can just port them to the end as well.

>

> > @"coso.9173" said:

> > You asked me how it affects me that others get the reward for free. And I answered. It affects me because I feel it's unfair I'm forced to do content I don't enjoy to get a certain reward, while others are allowed to skip content they don't enjoy and still get the rewards.

> > I don't think I can make it any more clear than that.

>

> The main problem with your argument here is that you are comparing the meager, almost trash rewards from a JP to exclusive higher tier rewards from other game modes.

>

> If JP's were giving out guaranteed exotics and ascended stuff then ok.. I would agree with you that it is a problem.

> But they dont.. getting anything useful or even decent is really rare for core JP rewards, that's why you can't compare them to raids, dungeons and other game mode rewards that you don't enjoy.

> It's just not a fair comparison at all.

 

That's true. Reward are insignificant. That's why I've said that it's not really an important issue. It's still not fair, but in a very non important way.

[kratan.4619]

This whole thread is one example of why mounts were a bad idea to begin with.

[kharmin.7683]

How so? Why were mounts a bad idea to begin with? Please elaborate.

[Luthan.5236]

Regarding the lfg tool stuff some people talked about earlier:

 

I know about the thread here in the forums where some stuff is announced. But you have to remember: Only the ToS/EULA can be used when deciding who gets banned. (I don't know if they mention the same stuff there or if they link to that thread from Gaile Gray.)

 

From how I understood it they want people to use the lfg tool to form parties/squads (=groups) that are actually used to play some content. So announcing a JP run where someone shows the people how to to the jumping and the path ... might be okay. Even if at the end he ports people that don't manage to do all the jumps. Same for raids where a strong group accepts a weak member and shows them the boss fights.

 

Not okay: To just join and get a free port and leave. (The guy joining isn't actually "playing" the content.) Same should happen for dungeons/raids where people might be able to join at the end. Never tried it and I don't know if it is possible to join just before (or even after) the last boss is killed - for some achievements. That would not count as "forming a group" then for me.

 

(Maybe the post/announcement from Gaile Gray needs clarification or an update here.)

The guild thing seems to have an own section - so I guess it is allowed. I mean you could look for guild members and having them play with ýou in a party a bit first to see if they are nice. That way content was being played while being in a group.

 

---

 

Regardless of that ... people might announce portals in the map chat. Most of the time if it is on daily there are even commanders and you just "know" that they are at the JP. Without them even announcing it anywhere. (if then mostly on map chat only.)

 

I'm again hinting at my opinion I posted already (for people not reading the earlier posts in the thread): https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1244154/#Comment_1244154

Since people already did stuff with portals and mounts and stuff ... I don'rt know why others should not be able. I don' see a need for further changes in the future. (In fact they could just remove all no-mound and no-glide zones.)

Best option would have been to block mounts/glider and mesmer portals from the beginning. Since that did not happen and people had the option of an easy way ... everyone later should also still get that option.

[Teratus.2859]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> How so? Why were mounts a bad idea to begin with? Please elaborate.

 

As an original mount skeptic I get where kratan.4619 is coming from.

 

When they added mounts I was very much on the side of hoping they wouldnt be usable in core Tyria because of how painfully obvious it was that they would just break a lot of the old content.. and to be fair they did and still do.

 

Breaking out of maps etc is extremely easy to do nowdays even with all the effort Anet put in to prevent it.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say Mounts were a bad idea though, the way Anet did them is definitely the best mount implementation method i've ever seen in a MMO.

Small quantity but huge quality compared to others games in which they are more of a generic speed boost with a fancy cosmetic effect.

 

Gw2 mounts are fantasitcly well done, but they did break a lot of the core game which simply wasn't designed to incorporate them, Gliding also did this a little too after it was allowed in core world but nowhere near as much as mounts did when it came to breaking the game.

Over time I think Anet have just accepted this reality and the game is where it is now.. and I think this really is the best we can hope for without heavily restricting mount use in core Tyria.

 

[NaramSin.2693]

> @"WorldofBay.8160" said:

> hey,

> i'm quite a fan of the JPs in this game, the effort that went into them and i want to do them the way they were intended. actually i want to be forced to do them the way they're intended, i'm not that much a fan of playing intentionally bad and i'm kind of a pioneer in searching routes around the map.

>

> the thing is that many JPs don't have working block zones, let's call it "no fly zone" because airtime is the biggest issue, so it fits.

 

All this NOTAM stuff for JP it's not only a nonsense but also a big waste of time/effort/money due to devs that must patch again and again ALL the JP in the game, the fact that you are dismounted (and You die falling) just because You are passing near a JP for what You don't care at All break the game.

What's exactly the problem? why t h one couldn't do JP with mounts? You should do a JP because it's are fun, not because You must do it, and in any case You have tons of mesmers that port You at the end even with NOTAMs, so really what's the problem? it's better waste the time "fixing" no fly zone FOREVER or fixing real bugs in the game?

If someone feel the need to skip the JP maybe this content it's not funny, maybe the player do not care at all for JP and ask some port, maybe he will just quit the game because it's a toxic/rusher and You really gain a better place to play, as a side note many JP are really fun and challenging to do with mounts, I assure You, I did when mounts has been introduced in the game.

So stop this madness, please, pretty please...

 

 

[coso.9173]

> @"NaramSin.2693" said:

> > @"WorldofBay.8160" said:

> > hey,

> > i'm quite a fan of the JPs in this game, the effort that went into them and i want to do them the way they were intended. actually i want to be forced to do them the way they're intended, i'm not that much a fan of playing intentionally bad and i'm kind of a pioneer in searching routes around the map.

> >

> > the thing is that many JPs don't have working block zones, let's call it "no fly zone" because airtime is the biggest issue, so it fits.

>

> All this NOTAM stuff for JP it's not only a nonsense but also a big waste of time/effort/money due to devs that must patch again and again ALL the JP in the game, the fact that you are dismounted (and You die falling) just because You are passing near a JP for what You don't care at All break the game.

> What's exactly the problem? why t h one couldn't do JP with mounts? You should do a JP because it's are fun, not because You must do it, and in any case You have tons of mesmers that port You at the end even with NOTAMs, so really what's the problem? it's better waste the time "fixing" no fly zone FOREVER or fixing real bugs in the game?

> If someone feel the need to skip the JP maybe this content it's not funny, maybe the player do not care at all for JP and ask some port, maybe he will just quit the game because it's a toxic/rusher and You really gain a better place to play, as a side note many JP are really fun and challenging to do with mounts, I assure You, I did when mounts has been introduced in the game.

> So stop this madness, please, pretty please...

>

>

 

Well then, I don't like pvp, but I want the rewards. So I'm asking anet to give them all for free.

At least newer JPs have mounts considered in them so it's not going to be a problem from now on.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"coso.9173" said:

 

>

> Well then, I don't like pvp, but I want the rewards. So I'm asking anet to give them all for free.

That's not even remotely the same argument. It isn't about not liking content, it's about everyone having the same opportunity to achieve the rewards of the content.

 

 

 

[coso.9173]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"coso.9173" said:

>

> >

> > Well then, I don't like pvp, but I want the rewards. So I'm asking anet to give them all for free.

> That's not even remotely the same argument. It isn't about not liking content, it's about everyone having the same opportunity to achieve the rewards of the content.

>

>

>

 

That's a bit like the anti marriage equality argument that claims that as everyone is able to marry someone of the opposite gender, there is no discrimination though.

People gave different tastes, and by making only certain content skippable, it gives only those who hate that content privilege, while others have to play through content they hate, to get their reward.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"coso.9173" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"coso.9173" said:

> >

> > >

> > > Well then, I don't like pvp, but I want the rewards. So I'm asking anet to give them all for free.

> > That's not even remotely the same argument. It isn't about not liking content, it's about everyone having the same opportunity to achieve the rewards of the content.

> >

> >

> >

>

> That's a bit like the anti marriage equality argument that claims that as everyone is able to marry someone of the opposite gender, there is no discrimination though.

What?

> People gave different tastes, and by making only certain content skippable, it gives only those who hate that content privilege, while others have to play through content they hate, to get their reward.

You seem to continue to miss my point. Nothing about this discussion has anything to do with hating or not hating particular content. My points have always been that every player can complete jumping puzzles and claim the reward and that if the player chooses to use the tools provided to do so in the game (mounts/gliders) then they ought to be able to do so. Doing so in NO WAY affects other players' abilities to complete jumping puzzles and claim rewards. Whether or not a player loves/hates jumping puzzles is irrelevant. EVERY PLAYER HAS THE SAME OPPORTUNITY TO COMPLETE JUMPING PUZZLES AND CLAIM REWARDS.

 

If a player hates jumping puzzles, and is able to use the tools provided in-game (gliders/mounts) to reach the end and claim the reward, then there is NOTHING preventing players who love jumping puzzles from doing the same darn thing. Every player has the same opportunity to use the same in-game tools. Whether or not they use them is their CHOICE.

 

Also, as jumping puzzles are completely optional content, players who hate them don't even have to do them. The rewards are so trivial and can be obtained by doing other open world content that they might prefer.

 

You keep injecting other GW2 content to further your argument. I don't know why. Other content is irrelevant to the discussion about jumping puzzles.

 

[Luthan.5236]

@coso.9173

 

The thing is: People actually did the JPs with gliding/mounts and/or mesmer portals. You can't compare it to PvP where an easier way never was possible.

 

For further JPs (that might get added in the future) it would be okay though. Here you can't just block mesmer portals. Newer players would be at a disadvantage compared to players that were able to use the portals to get easy achievements.

 

You could argue that ArenaNet should make PvP easier ... for easier achievements. But JPs and PvP are 2 different types of content. They are treated differently on purpose. (Because they are different.)

 

I like to play PvP but I don't want to do raids. And I'm not going around saying "make raids soloable and doable in 1 minutes so I can get the achievements quickly".

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Luthan.5236" said:

> And I'm not going around saying "make raids soloable and doable in 1 minutes so I can get the achievements quickly".

Perhaps you won't, but as evidenced by this thread a certain subset of this community would...

and have.

[Taylan.2187]

I think a way to "unequip" gliding would be very cool. It would probably be quite easy for Anet to develop and it would prevent the problem of accidental gliding when you're intentionally trying to avoid it to have a challenge.

 

And if there's a mechanic to disable gliding/mounts after interacting with some object (I think someone else in this thread called it a mote) then it would be really cool if those could replace the no-fly/no-mount zone mechanics of JPs. You could end the mode using the special action key, which would disqualify you from completing the JP achievement and opening the chest. I agree with those who say a JP should be a JP and not a free achievement+chest with an optional, rewardless JP attached to it.

 

There are many things I could challenge myself to in the game without getting rewarded, like removing my armor and equipping an off-hand weapon only before diving into the Maguuma Jungle, organizing 1vN fights in custom PvP arenas, killing a certain enemy or number of enemies in a self-defined time limit (10 karkas in 10 minutes challenge??), or whatever else my imagination provides. But a JP is supposed to be a reward I'm chasing. There's a certain satisfaction in reaching the final chest after the struggle. And since the rewards aren't that great, you're not excluding any players from a major reward.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Taylan.2187" said:

> I agree with those who say a JP should be a JP and not a free achievement+chest with an optional, rewardless JP attached to it.

Why? What difference does it make to you as a player? You can still do the JP and get the reward regardless of how other players choose to do them. Their choices do not affect yours or your ability to gain the reward.

[Noenp.2041]

Personaly, I do jp's the old way even though I have glider and all mounts including skyscale. If I feel like not doing the puzzle I just wait for a portal or use the mounts. The no glider/mount zones don't make sense for dailies though, there's many that just have time for the 3 daily reward and not much more, which having to do a full jp like the secret bandit hideout might take to much time. The no glider/mount debuff should only be needed 1 time for each jp, more than that would be useless, I mean, you already proved your ability getting the achievement 1 time, why making it a permanent thing? If you want players to have the no glider/mount debuff longer then it should, like many said, be only used after the player activates a challenge mote, just like for the mastery challenges for having silver and gold medal, that way players could still compete and get more rewards than just the end chest which having a gold medal or your name on the daily board sounds more appealing than the rewards of the actual end chest.

[kharmin.7683]

I still don't see why any player should have to prove that they can complete a JP without the tools that are provided in the game. What purpose does this type of lock-out serve?

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

i really dislike JPs at all... so i'd highly appreciate to get rather way less no-mount/fly zone than vice versa. these are so brutally annoying since they break your pathing (nearly without pre warning considering many mounts' speed and dismount timing).... pve isn't a challenge anyways (exceptions: raids, high tier fractals maybe) in this game, so why even bothering putting in those barriers?

[Taylan.2187]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> Why? What difference does it make to you as a player? You can still do the JP and get the reward regardless of how other players choose to do them. Their choices do not affect yours or your ability to gain the reward.

 

I didn't say anything about other players, did I? :-)

 

Making the "reward" of the JP free and the actual JP optional just seems kind of pointless to me.

[Noenp.2041]

You might not see why but atleast giving the option is better than just taking it out altogether. For example I know for a matter of fact many players that, like me, like to do things the hard way just to prove that they can do them, if you get a reward for it the better it is. That's why I said it would only be for 1 time since its completely useless having achievements while using a shortcut. Do you see climbers entering the world record for climbing Mount Everest using a helicopter instead of literraly climbing it at foot and with the climbing gear? No you don't, and still they had the "mount" to do so.

[Noenp.2041]

Instead of attacking the jp's which actually make sense being dificult to reach, why not try to change the daily system? You could have all the achievement points you want if Anet just made the daily ap reward and the actual dailies repeatable, instead of having to do the daily jp you could just farm all day for repeatable daily ap's or for those that want do the jp's the"hardway" all day. I don't mind the 2 gold being 1 time a day, but the ap are so important because they get capped, if Anet eliminated that cap there wouldn't be any need for making any other achievement easier than it should be. You already have easy legendary achievement 1 time for a lifetime, that just shows how much Anet doesn't want to make ap's easy to get.

[WorldofBay.8160]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> Again, why? Players can complete jumping puzzles without mount/glider today. Right now. It is a choice and that choice in no way impacts how others choose to complete JPs just as choosing to use mount/glider in no way affects players' abilities to complete JPs without them.

 

first of all not everybody has this choice, only PoF players have the ability to do so, so why should non-PoF players have a harder time for the same achievement?

second all the talk here is about the JP achievement, not stuff like the daily achievement which should not become too much of a hassle (consider that skipping stones is a daily and that JP is very hard for lots of players). you earn achievements, you don't get them granted. that is the whole point about achievements. also they are optional, so why do you care? you don't want to do a JP? then just don't. you want to get the achievement for a JP? well then do the JP (or find helpful people ...). you don't just get the auric weapons achievement for free, do you? no it is meant to cost you some precious gold, so pay some precious gold if you want it. also fully optional.

 

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> The OPS claim that "Well my mesmer portals are allowed by the game but mounts/gliders arent" is also a false claim. They are allowed, as they should be. The jumping puzzles that the OP is talking about for the most are also not the hardest ones that have achievements tied to them. There are far easier ones that allow mounts that have the same ap reward tied to them as those the OP thinks are exploits.

>

> Leave JPS as they are, or remove all mount and glider zones, its that simple. It gives -everyone- an even playing field, and eliminates the requirement for a mesmer for those who struggle with jumping as well.

 

removing noglide and nomount zones **does not** give everyone an even playing field as i stated above. also i see portal as a way of helping and other achievements allow helping. you can farm all the bandit skins, buy them or get them gifted by friends who did enough sw cf to have them twice and more. i don't see why it should be that different for JPs. don't cheat them but help is ok. at least someone had to do it the normal way then.

 

also my list does not claim to be complete or anything close to it. those are just some examples i remembered at the time i started this thread. also you contradict yourself quite well with hard and easy ...

 

> @"coso.9173" said:

> well i find that both portals or gliding/mounts is at the end of the day, cheating the system. I guess since the rewards are kind of unimportant, they let it pass. but the idea of a jp is to do it, not skip it, even more if it's optional content, only those who want to do it, have to.

 

see above for my opinion on that.

 

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> The OP wants the ability to use mounts to bypass JPs removed because it takes players away from their portal services. They made it fairly evident in one of their posts.

 

i never charged anyone for any portal. i've been one of the daily JP porters long ago that - as everyone knows - never charge gold. portaling people back then was a community interaction and i met quite some friendly people there. not the entitled or toxic type of players, no, those players that wanted to have a go at the JP but felt like they have no chance and so it was mostly an escort quest with friendly chatter and lots of safety portals and artificial checkpoints. it has been a good thing, ruined by mounts. it has never been a source of income or anything related. if anything i fought the portal services by helping for free.

 

 

[WorldofBay.8160]

> @"Taylan.2187" said:

> I think a way to "unequip" gliding would be very cool. It would probably be quite easy for Anet to develop and it would prevent the problem of accidental gliding when you're intentionally trying to avoid it to have a challenge.

>

> And if there's a mechanic to disable gliding/mounts after interacting with some object (I think someone else in this thread called it a mote) then it would be really cool if those could replace the no-fly/no-mount zone mechanics of JPs.

 

unequipping gliders generally is a good idea that should've been implemented long ago.

 

there would be a simple mechanic for that which is not cheatable. you could get a JP transformation. in that transformation you can still jump and have some dmg skills but none of them has movement (you can cheat some JPs with movement skills, not so secret for example even allows blink to jump over a specific gap to cut half of the JP). then if you open a JP chest while in that transformation you get the achievement. if you aren't transformed you can still open the chest and get the daily for this chest. that would be an optimal way. you can still get portaled to the chest but as i explained earlier imo that is not really cheating as it is possible for non-JP achievements as well and does not exploit a bug in some badly designed nomount zone. this game often allows gold or helpful people as alternatives to the original way and that is a good thing in an mmorpg, a genre that revolves around community interaction and trading.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"WorldofBay.8160" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > Again, why? Players can complete jumping puzzles without mount/glider today. Right now. It is a choice and that choice in no way impacts how others choose to complete JPs just as choosing to use mount/glider in no way affects players' abilities to complete JPs without them.

>

> first of all not everybody has this choice, only PoF players have the ability to do so, so why should non-PoF players have a harder time for the same achievement?

Players can choose to purchase PoF or not, so yes every player has this choice. Non-PoF players don't have it harder; rather those with PoF have it easier. Or did until no fly zones.

[WorldofBay.8160]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"WorldofBay.8160" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > Again, why? Players can complete jumping puzzles without mount/glider today. Right now. It is a choice and that choice in no way impacts how others choose to complete JPs just as choosing to use mount/glider in no way affects players' abilities to complete JPs without them.

> >

> > first of all not everybody has this choice, only PoF players have the ability to do so, so why should non-PoF players have a harder time for the same achievement?

> Players can choose to purchase PoF or not, so yes every player has this choice. Non-PoF players don't have it harder; rather those with PoF have it easier. Or did until no fly zones.

 

and for what reason should people that bought a specific expansion have it easier to complete achievements that are in no way related to this expansion? why do you feel entitled to get a 10 AP achievement for free because you bought something totally unrelated?