Pride Flag Capes

[Rankomonaut.4708]

Representation:

1) won't change the world we live in

2) has to be done with a sense of tact - otherwise (aka too much of it) it annoys consumers

 

But @ topic: I can't see a problem with a precolored rainbow cape.

Question is: How can I show the world that I'm a straight male? There's no cape for all the different ways to live a life.

[thehipone.6812]

If this is implemented I want a Christian "Pride" cape to wear in game to show solidarity with others around the world. [Persecution of Christians 'coming close to genocide'](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/02/persecution-driving-christians-out-of-middle-east-report)

 

Or we could just leave the real world stuff to the real world and enjoy a bit of an escape in a video game. The in-game events done previously were all health-related in some way that did not really involve specific "this or that" demographic group divisions that are inherently political, even if people want to pretend that they aren't.

 

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"coso.9173" said:

> > @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > I have an alternative theory: I just don't care. I don't care if someone is LGBT, I don't care if they get a cape, or if they don't. I don't see not having the cape as some sort of abuse either. I did, however, accurately predict this response, thanks for demonstrating my point so clearly.

> >

> > > @"coso.9173" said:

> > > just wanted to add that there's no real neutrality when there's a situation that involves abuse or discrimination. if you take the supposedly neutral side, you're already taking the side of the abuser.

> > >

> >

> >

>

> I never said having or not having the cape was abuse. but some people said they should stay neutral in this topic, as a whole, that's why I said it. If there's racism or sexism or homophobia, and someone stays "neutral", then it's not really neutral, that was my point. not about the cape.

 

That is, however what the thread is about. I'm neutral on whether a cape is added or not, because I don't care. I won't be getting one if it's added, and I won't be pitching a fit if it is. I don't care, and so, am neutral. Which means that I'm not "taking the side of the abuser". From where I'm sitting that was your attempt to shame someone out of the dialog about a cape.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Amy of Darkness.5248" said:

> "What about straight pride" is bog standard whataboutism and concern trolling with far-right origins; a disingenuous statement intended to stir up and intentionally upset victimized people with a false equivalent argument. You said something deliberately incendiary and are acting like a victim when someone rightfully calls you on it. You were insulted? Then educate yourself on LGBTQA+ issues before you step into a topic like this again.

 

So, you're saying that there isn't any discrimination against straight people? At all?

[Blude.6812]

> @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"robertthebard.8150" At least you weren't called "ignorant". /smh

>

> True, I'd have reported the post, but the forum didn't allow it, protected class?

 

The forum reporting is bugged and can't report anything including abuse.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Jayden Reese.9542" said:

> Are you kidding?

No. I wanted to understand where you were coming from. I'm assuming the examples you gave are based on US law and custom?

> You can't get married because you're straight

There are places in the US where non-straight couples can marry.

> You sit in the back of the bus cause you're straight

This is hyperbole. Where in the US does this happen to non-straight people?

> You can't vote because you're straight

Again, hyperbole.

> I can't make you a cake cause you're straight

There are plenty of places where non-straight people can have cakes made.

> I can't rent to you because you're straight

Where does this happen to non-straight people?

> I can't hire you because you're straight

There are plenty of companies that hire non-straight people.

> You can't enter this country because you're straight

Hyperbole. Really.

 

 

 

[Rankomonaut.4708]

Let's see why real world issues should stay outside of games... Hmm..

[Clyan.1593]

> @"coso.9173" said:

> > @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > I have an alternative theory: I just don't care. I don't care if someone is LGBT, I don't care if they get a cape, or if they don't. I don't see not having the cape as some sort of abuse either. I did, however, accurately predict this response, thanks for demonstrating my point so clearly.

> >

> > > @"coso.9173" said:

> > > just wanted to add that there's no real neutrality when there's a situation that involves abuse or discrimination. if you take the supposedly neutral side, you're already taking the side of the abuser.

> > >

> >

> >

>

> I never said having or not having the cape was abuse. but some people said they should stay neutral in this topic, as a whole, that's why I said it. If there's racism or sexism or homophobia, and someone stays "neutral", then it's not really neutral, that was my point. not about the cape.

 

The fact that equality, decency and tolerance universally and morally are undisputable doesn't suffer from neutrality.

However it suffers from those who fight without civility. If you want support you have to make sure to stay credible.

 

I might stand for and believe in the same values as certain communities or parties, minority or not, but if they politically and morally cannot uphold

my personal standarts of communication and actions I will choose to sit it out.

And I am not obligated to fight along a specific "group" if their behaviour makes everything worse. In fact, I am obligated to ignore them.

And let's not forget that what you said can always at any time be reversed by those who oppose what you strive for.

Neutrality is not a cloak for silent support, but certainly a cloak for complete opposition. Everything else is hypocrisy.

 

Simply put, if all parties involved are beyond what is good for the cause, then choosing neutrality is a step towards the cause.

 

That said, I personally don't mind haveing a cape that lets me dye it into the pride flag. I don't see any problem with it.

[Deeyra.1476]

How about they add actual content insead of some new gemstore item ?

[Clyan.1593]

> @"Deeyra.1476" said:

> How about they add actual content insead of some new gemstore item ?

 

Didn't they just recently release a new LS episode?

Also a new Xpac is coming up. So I really don't know what you're talking about.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Jayden Reese.9542" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said:

> > > Are you kidding?

> > No. I wanted to understand where you were coming from. I'm assuming the examples you gave are based on US law and custom?

> > > You can't get married because you're straight

> > There are places in the US where non-straight couples can marry.

> > > You sit in the back of the bus cause you're straight

> > This is hyperbole. Where in the US does this happen to non-straight people?

> > > You can't vote because you're straight

> > Again, hyperbole.

> > > I can't make you a cake cause you're straight

> > There are plenty of places where non-straight people can have cakes made.

> > > I can't rent to you because you're straight

> > Where does this happen to non-straight people?

> > > I can't hire you because you're straight

> > There are plenty of companies that hire non-straight people.

> > > You can't enter this country because you're straight

> > Hyperbole. Really.

> >

> >

> >

>

> Are you this ignorant?

> The point so no straight person has to deal with that where everything I said was denied to people based off race religion or sexual preference. Just because in another state you could get married or could eventually vote and that was (blacks/women at some point) and some company's and people will rent/hire gay/black people it makes it ok that some discriminate against them? They faced this not straight people so no straight people haven't been discriminated against.

 

I'm just not going to argue when you pick and choose your points.

[kharmin.7683]

Again, not the proper forum for this debate.

[Deeyra.1476]

> @"Clyan.1593" said:

> > @"Deeyra.1476" said:

> > How about they add actual content insead of some new gemstore item ?

>

> Didn't they just recently release a new LS episode?

> Also a new Xpac is coming up. So I really don't know what you're talking about.

 

and that new LW episode offers you whole 2 days of content. very nice

[Clyan.1593]

> @"Deeyra.1476" said:

> > @"Clyan.1593" said:

> > > @"Deeyra.1476" said:

> > > How about they add actual content insead of some new gemstore item ?

> >

> > Didn't they just recently release a new LS episode?

> > Also a new Xpac is coming up. So I really don't know what you're talking about.

>

> and that new LW episode offers you whole 2 days of content. very nice

 

Yeah, I can buy a game for 60 bucks that has been in developement for 4 years and play it through in 5-6 hours on average. 2 days of content after developing it in 3 months on average, including creating a whole new map, textures, voice acting (with the exception of this episode for reasons everyone knows), storywriting, new masteries, strike missions, minis, skins, achivements, often novelties too, new NPCs and of course all the coding involved - is quite passable if you ask me. You don't even have to pay for it, it's free content, but of course some people will always find a way to be snobby and sassy about everything. Since this episode involved tracks you had to grind a bit for completion I know for a fact that the only way of getting the Meta Achivement done within 2 days means one has to rush the content exessively. So maybe don't do that if after it all you are left to do is come here and complain about lack of content.

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"Jayden Reese.9542" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Amy of Darkness.5248" said:

> > > "What about straight pride" is bog standard whataboutism and concern trolling with far-right origins; a disingenuous statement intended to stir up and intentionally upset victimized people with a false equivalent argument. You said something deliberately incendiary and are acting like a victim when someone rightfully calls you on it. You were insulted? Then educate yourself on LGBTQA+ issues before you step into a topic like this again.

> >

> > So, you're saying that there isn't any discrimination against straight people? At all?

>

> Are you kidding?

> You can't get married because you're straight

> You sit in the back of the bus cause you're straight

> You can't vote because you're straight

> I can't make you a cake cause you're straight

> I can't rent to you because you're straight

> I can't hire you because you're straight

> You can't enter this country because you're straight

> Straight people constantly discriminated against

 

Well, this is certainly the longest strawman list I have ever read. You could have saved yourself a lot of typing by stopping after the first one. Gay marriages were, indeed, frowned upon in a lot of places until fairly recently. Everything else? Not so much. The only other thing that isn't universally applied would be the cake, and that's a business's prerogative, or it used to be, to deny service to anyone for any reason. The free market will take care of any bigotry, real or imagined.

[Amy of Darkness.5248]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> So, you're saying that there isn't any discrimination against straight people? At all?

 

Oh hey we're sealioning now?! Time for the greatest hits, straight from the Disingenuous Internet Argument Playbook!

 

I see you no longer want to debate suddenly, but you asked me and here I am, answering.

 

Absolutely, for being heterosexual? Straight people do not face discrimination for being straight, FULL STOP. As a heteromantic cis woman who doesn't have my head firmly shoved up my rear-end and a miles wide victim complex, I recognize that LGBTQA+ people who are murdered, raped, have been vilified in media for YEARS, oppressed by the government, denied their rights, fired from their jobs, denied basic rights like marriage and visiting loved ones in the hospital, shamed and humiliated by their moralizing bible-thumping hypochristian peers, told they are going to hell for their "sin" by the same people who sexually abuse them, brainwashed and manipulated by cruel unsympathetic family members (or condescendingly "accepted" so long as they can play straight the rest of their lives) and often driven to homelessness, suicide, sold into sex slavery or subjected to mass genocide by corrupt governments solely because they are homosexual or transgender (deep breath) _is not even close to the same_ as "a gay boy called me "breeder" once and I kinda hate babies so it made me feel real bad" :(

 

There is no "straight panic" defense to excuse someone for murdering you if you flirt with them or happen to give off "heterosexual vibes" at the wrong time. Guess what has let the murderers of gay and transgender folks go free of charges. You got some tidbits from history where straight people were illegal, and straight cops cruised around straight hangouts trying to root out and arrest straight folks? Where women wearing dresses and men wearing pants landed them in jail for conforming to their social gender roles? Did straights get denied joining the military? Can you be arrested for making love to your straight partner? Do people object to your straightness using misquoted passages from a heavily edited and poorly translated religious text from a religion you don't even practice? Do these same people make laws go through that disadvantage and punish you for being straight?

 

Did a virus ravage the straight community while the country did nothing to help them, and millions of straight people died because the "straight virus" was perceived as something only straight people would contract? Did preachers say heterosexual sin was bringing the wrath of God on the nation? Do straight people still get denied donating blood for being straight because they assume straights have that virus? (but like coronavirus, you probably think AIDS was overblown too)

 

I am completely disinterested in whatever example you have to go with your deeply troubling whataboutism "straight people are discriminated against, too!" because I know exactly what your intentions are. The fact that some people that are poor or disabled or bullied happen to also be straight cis people is correlation NOT CAUSATION.

 

Reverse-discrimination, what the fresh hell are you talking about? Bullies and bigots do not get to complain that someone punched back when they were punching them down and continue to do so.

 

The fact that you respond to the other poster with a dismissive, laconic "hyperbole" and "well, the gay folk can go to another place that will bake their cake/hire/rent to them" shows how deeply misinformed you truly are about these issues or simply have no empathy or compassion. You clearly have no idea how humiliating and degrading it is to go into a business and ask for service and have them say "Not for you." Just go somewhere else does NOT fix the problem. Do you have to screen every business you try to engage with to see if they're straight friendly?

I think the other poster who called you ignorant was attempting to be diplomatic. Ignorance is forgivable, because it is a temporary state, it is only a bad thing if you intend to double-down on it and not learn ANYTHING. People that call you ignorant aren't calling you stupid, they are pointing out to you that you are lacking information either unintentionally or intentionally.

 

I don't even know why I'm bothering to try and inform you, you prodded me so here I am, but I may as well be talking to a brick wall. You're here to troll and nothing I say, even if I backed it up with a million articles, will matter. If you think it's unfair people make assumptions about you, maybe take a hard look at what you say that betrays who you are.

 

Let me make one thing abundantly clear, I am not interested in debating you-- or anyone who refuses to argue in good faith and even do the bare minimum to inform themselves before they make erroneous statements that cause real life harm. And I guess you're mercifully unwilling to debate too, because Jayden brought up some good points and suddenly the questions you asked don't need answers or to be debated because this isn't the place.

 

_ALSO, immersion. It was simple as that. Argue that precious immersion you all care about will shatter like glass if you see a pride flag, the way it would if a Union Jack were flying in Tyria, if you didn't want to upset people. I'm sure you can ignore all the French words in a world without France, but whatever. If you wanted a reasonable, non controversial objection, that was it._

 

To the OP and mods, I'm truly sorry it's like this in here. I hope this "community" did not drive away the OP.

[SpyderArachnid.5619]

How about everyone just shut up and we stay on topic? Yeah, that sounds like a swell idea.

 

OP, your best option is to work with the dyes. I see plenty of people around that dye their armor and capes already in pride colors. They look like walking rainbows, but it works lol. Don't give up hope on a pride cape though, as Anet is pretty pride heavy and it could eventually make it into the game if past additions are anything to go off of.

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"Jayden Reese.9542" said:

> > @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > > @"Jayden Reese.9542" said:

> > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > @"Amy of Darkness.5248" said:

> > > > > "What about straight pride" is bog standard whataboutism and concern trolling with far-right origins; a disingenuous statement intended to stir up and intentionally upset victimized people with a false equivalent argument. You said something deliberately incendiary and are acting like a victim when someone rightfully calls you on it. You were insulted? Then educate yourself on LGBTQA+ issues before you step into a topic like this again.

> > > >

> > > > So, you're saying that there isn't any discrimination against straight people? At all?

> > >

> > > Are you kidding?

> > > You can't get married because you're straight

> > > You sit in the back of the bus cause you're straight

> > > You can't vote because you're straight

> > > I can't make you a cake cause you're straight

> > > I can't rent to you because you're straight

> > > I can't hire you because you're straight

> > > You can't enter this country because you're straight

> > > Straight people constantly discriminated against

> >

> > Well, this is certainly the longest strawman list I have ever read. You could have saved yourself a lot of typing by stopping after the first one. Gay marriages were, indeed, frowned upon in a lot of places until fairly recently. Everything else? Not so much. The only other thing that isn't universally applied would be the cake, and that's a business's prerogative, or it used to be, to deny service to anyone for any reason. The free market will take care of any bigotry, real or imagined.

>

> Frowned upon? It was banned in states and had to be legalized. I already read some of your comments and kinda know where you stand on most gay/race issues. No need to confirm it any further

 

Did you just assume my sexual orientation? Isn't that supposed to be a major fuck up where your ilk is concerned?

 

All women/blacks were denied the right to vote, sexual orientation had nothing to do with it. All black people were forced to the back of the bus, until Rosa Parks said no, sexual orientation had nothing to do with it. The rest of the list continues along in this vein. "But Rob, it was still discrimination", and yes, it was, mostly, I question the rent, but it's open for debate. I'm sure there are people out there that have that opinion. However, since the majority of this was race based, and since LGBT knows no race, people from all races are represented, after all, then your list is completely off base.

[Super Hayes.6890]

Hmm, it seems there are two posters intent on taking the conversation away from GW2 and over to their opinions on oh so many real world issues. They are doing it on other threads too. It is pretty clear that the mods aren't doing anything because to do so would paint the company as taking one side or the other which is taboo for businesses right now. What was this thread about again?... capes or something... no, that's right this is now a movement to repurpose a gaming thread as that is, obviously, the best way to address and fix these real world problems. Good job! Humanity thanks you.

 

In case that wasn't clear: GET OFF THESE FORUMS AND SPEND YOUR TIME MAKING AN ACTUAL DIFFERENCE! Or shut up and discuss Guild Wars 2 which is what we are here to do.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

> @"JosiahGreenwood.6924" said:

> Hey, is there any way to make pride flags in GW2? Like, capes would be the most obvious place to put them, and you'd only need a few basic layouts, and you could dye your own for however you identify. Is that a thing? If not, could that be a thing?

 

so... what about the people from countries where homosexuality is as good as outlawed or even a capital offense? With a culture that echos those legal sentiments?

 

Why cater to less than 1% of the population if you could lose a vast percentage of your player base because suddenly your game is deemed 'homosexual propaganda' and banned? At the moment a player with a certain mindset can easily ignore non-heterosexual tones in the game. But if you force it on them, do you really think that would do any good? Since when did annoying people ever helped changing their minds?

 

What about the people who just do not care whatever you identify as and like to do with your partner(s)? Who think (like I do) that everything that consenting adults do with each other is their problem and their problem only. It does not matter to anyone else. But still do not push it in my face? I do not care if you are a homosexual furry. Or a heterosexual swinger. Or a omnisexual flower sniffer. Or agender asexual. Just do not tell me about it. I do not need to know it. If I like you, it does not matter. If I don't like you, it won't change anything. There are things people like me just do not care about and do not want to know. For me, sexual preferences are like skin colours: I DO NOT CARE. If you are a decent person that I find likable, I like you. No matter what colour you are or what kind of orientation you have. If I can't stand you, it does not matter what colour you are, what kind of orientation you have. Won't change a thing. I do not need to know and I prefer not knowing. Unless we are CLOSE PERSONAL friends. In that case I would like to know - just to make sure I do buy a fitting birthday present and maybe be able to greet your partner accordingly.

 

In fact, I know a couple of homosexuals, gays and lesbians. When I found out, usually because they introduced me to their partner, did it change anything? Not for me. Glad you are happy. You make a cute couple. So what film are we watching tonight?

 

In all honesty, I think that is what we should strive for. People not caring because it does not matter.

 

Also, if you allow pride flags for homosexuality (btw, do we talk about 'mainstream' or bears here?), nonbinary, transgender, genderqueer etc pp, shouldn't you also allow pride flags for sex workers? heterosexuals? People who do not have a tumblr account? Oh and how about racial pride flags. I am sure that would be a GREAT IDEA. Really. What could go wrong?

 

Pride flags in games are a horrific can of worms. Please do not open it.

[SpyderArachnid.5619]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> > @"JosiahGreenwood.6924" said:

> > Hey, is there any way to make pride flags in GW2? Like, capes would be the most obvious place to put them, and you'd only need a few basic layouts, and you could dye your own for however you identify. Is that a thing? If not, could that be a thing?

>

> so... what about the people from countries where homosexuality is as good as outlawed or even a capital offense? With a culture that echos those legal sentiments?

>

> Why cater to less than 1% of the population if you could lose a vast percentage of your player base because suddenly your game is deemed 'homosexual propaganda' and banned? At the moment a player with a certain mindset can easily ignore non-heterosexual tones in the game. But if you force it on them, do you really think that would do any good? Since when did annoying people ever helped changing their minds?

>

> What about the people who just do not care whatever you identify as and like to do with your partner(s)? Who think (like I do) that everything that consenting adults do with each other is their problem and their problem only. It does not matter to anyone else. But still do not push it in my face? I do not care if you are a homosexual furry. Or a heterosexual swinger. Or a omnisexual flower sniffer. Or agender asexual. Just do not tell me about it. I do not need to know it. If I like you, it does not matter. If I don't like you, it won't change anything. There are things people like me just do not care about and do not want to know. For me, sexual preferences are like skin colours: I DO NOT CARE. If you are a decent person that I find likable, I like you. No matter what colour you are or what kind of orientation you have. If I can't stand you, it does not matter what colour you are, what kind of orientation you have. Won't change a thing. I do not need to know and I prefer not knowing. Unless we are CLOSE PERSONAL friends. In that case I would like to know - just to make sure I do buy a fitting birthday present and maybe be able to greet your partner accordingly.

>

> In fact, I know a couple of homosexuals, gays and lesbians. When I found out, usually because they introduced me to their partner, did it change anything? Not for me. Glad you are happy. You make a cute couple. So what film are we watching tonight?

>

> In all honesty, I think that is what we should strive for. People not caring because it does not matter.

>

> Also, if you allow pride flags for homosexuality (btw, do we talk about 'mainstream' or bears here?), nonbinary, transgender, genderqueer etc pp, shouldn't you also allow pride flags for sex workers? heterosexuals? People who do not have a tumblr account? Oh and how about racial pride flags. I am sure that would be a GREAT IDEA. Really. What could go wrong?

>

> Pride flags in games are a horrific can of worms. Please do not open it.

 

Seriously, chill out.

 

If you haven't noticed, GW2 already has several references to the LGBT+ community as it is. And they are all in game for your viewing pleasure. From gay couples, to lesbian couples, to transgenders, etc etc. It's already in the game. I'm pretty sure a rainbow cape is the least of your worries.

 

Instead of turning this thread into an "agenda" debate and who is offended by what, let's stay on topic and keep it about GW2.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

Indeed, lets keep it about GW2, where no 'pride this and that' exists, because Tyrians do not care.

[Super Hayes.6890]

Aaaaaaaand 3 pages.... Any time now with that moderator hammer.

[Yggranya.5201]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> Indeed, lets keep it about GW2, where no 'pride this and that' exists, because Tyrians do not care.

 

Would you look at that, someone who gets the obvious. Of course, most people want to be noticed, want to be "special". But as you said, no one really cares and it shouldn't be shoveled down everyone throat. People should just do what they do amongst themselves and leave everyone else out of it. Too much to ask? Of course it is.

[Crab Fear.1624]

I will get banned for 7+ days.

 

But, I think it's time to close this thread as it really is not about guild wars as a game.