Leonidrex.5649 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 @"rng.1024" what you suggested at first would just make builds without serious might stacking even more shit then they already are. lets say you have power mesmer without mantra, so 0 might. then you have power holo that averages 15 might in combat. mesmer runs berserker and lynx for speed so mesmer has 2375 power. -500 power for that mesmer is 21% dmg loss. lets move to engi, he runs berserker and resist rune? I think? That is 2200 power + 450 from might, for total of 2650. -500 power to that build is 19% damage loss. so in that aspect you hurt the builds that dont stack might more then those that do. You kick the builds that suck. Instead they should just give might generation to those that dont have it, and remove it from those that have too much. And I disagree with might as "burst" Might doesnt give you burst damage, 25 stacks of might for the mesmer that I have previously mentioned is 31% damage increase, realistic stacks like 5-10 do not give you burst, they help you with sustained damage, thats why I think might should be long lasting with small stacks, to ramp up. and make fights have a deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rng.1024 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > @"rng.1024" > what you suggested at first would just make builds without serious might stacking even more kitten then they already are. > lets say you have power mesmer without mantra, so 0 might. > then you have power holo that averages 15 might in combat. > mesmer runs berserker and lynx for speed so mesmer has 2375 power. -500 power for that mesmer is 21% dmg loss. > lets move to engi, he runs berserker and resist rune? I think? That is 2200 power + 450 from might, for total of 2650. -500 power to that build is 19% damage loss. > so in that aspect you hurt the builds that dont stack might more then those that do. > You kick the builds that suck. Instead they should just give might generation to those that dont have it, and remove it from those that have too much. > And I disagree with might as "burst" > Might doesnt give you burst damage, 25 stacks of might for the mesmer that I have previously mentioned is 31% damage increase, realistic stacks like 5-10 do not give you burst, they help you with sustained damage, thats why I think might should be long lasting with small stacks, to ramp up. and make fights have a deadline. > You do realise the difference between your two examples is way worse right now than it would be with my suggestion implemented? I don't think it's healthy for any spec to require mightstacking on top of running a zerker amulet to do decent damage. There should be a place for both styles of play, and when I say burst I mean **"a ~5 sec window where you should land your biggest hits because of the temporarily increased damage"**. Like I said I was never out to make might unviable or op, only to adjust the power damage of bunker builds without touching full on power ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"rng.1024" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"rng.1024" > > what you suggested at first would just make builds without serious might stacking even more kitten then they already are. > > lets say you have power mesmer without mantra, so 0 might. > > then you have power holo that averages 15 might in combat. > > mesmer runs berserker and lynx for speed so mesmer has 2375 power. -500 power for that mesmer is 21% dmg loss. > > lets move to engi, he runs berserker and resist rune? I think? That is 2200 power + 450 from might, for total of 2650. -500 power to that build is 19% damage loss. > > so in that aspect you hurt the builds that dont stack might more then those that do. > > You kick the builds that suck. Instead they should just give might generation to those that dont have it, and remove it from those that have too much. > > And I disagree with might as "burst" > > Might doesnt give you burst damage, 25 stacks of might for the mesmer that I have previously mentioned is 31% damage increase, realistic stacks like 5-10 do not give you burst, they help you with sustained damage, thats why I think might should be long lasting with small stacks, to ramp up. and make fights have a deadline. > > > > You do realise the difference between your two examples is way worse right now than it would be with my suggestion implemented? > > I don't think it's healthy for any spec to require mightstacking on top of running a zerker amulet to do decent damage. There should be a place for both styles of play, and when I say burst I mean **"a ~5 sec window where you should land your biggest hits because of the temporarily increased damage"**. > > Like I said I was never out to make might unviable or op, only to adjust the power damage of bunker builds without touching full on power ones. > nobody will land a burst if everyone has such short windows, damage should be ramping up as the fight goes on, to finally come to a conclusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rng.1024 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"rng.1024" > > > what you suggested at first would just make builds without serious might stacking even more kitten then they already are. > > > lets say you have power mesmer without mantra, so 0 might. > > > then you have power holo that averages 15 might in combat. > > > mesmer runs berserker and lynx for speed so mesmer has 2375 power. -500 power for that mesmer is 21% dmg loss. > > > lets move to engi, he runs berserker and resist rune? I think? That is 2200 power + 450 from might, for total of 2650. -500 power to that build is 19% damage loss. > > > so in that aspect you hurt the builds that dont stack might more then those that do. > > > You kick the builds that suck. Instead they should just give might generation to those that dont have it, and remove it from those that have too much. > > > And I disagree with might as "burst" > > > Might doesnt give you burst damage, 25 stacks of might for the mesmer that I have previously mentioned is 31% damage increase, realistic stacks like 5-10 do not give you burst, they help you with sustained damage, thats why I think might should be long lasting with small stacks, to ramp up. and make fights have a deadline. > > > > > > > You do realise the difference between your two examples is way worse right now than it would be with my suggestion implemented? > > > > I don't think it's healthy for any spec to require mightstacking on top of running a zerker amulet to do decent damage. There should be a place for both styles of play, and when I say burst I mean **"a ~5 sec window where you should land your biggest hits because of the temporarily increased damage"**. > > > > Like I said I was never out to make might unviable or op, only to adjust the power damage of bunker builds without touching full on power ones. > > > > nobody will land a burst if everyone has such short windows, damage should be ramping up as the fight goes on, to finally come to a conclusion Yeah your opinion is valid, maybe I'm just biased because I liked the core philosophy of boons way back when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anjo.6143 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > Yep it is that simple. > > high risk- high reward > > low risk - low reward > > high skill requirement- high reward > > low skill requirement - low reward > > high sustain (mostly active , because mistake friendly facetank sustain should be reduce to a minimum anyway, what is also not the case in GW2)- low dmg > > dot dmg -no burst and no double defensive ability (by needing that much less offensive stats for the same dmg than power) > > > > simple basic rules not existing in GW2 for most classes/ builds atm. > > LoL @ damage over time with no burst and low defense. Just say what you mean: I hate condi and I don't want to deal with it in my meta at all. We know how you feel. Just say it! Condi on this meta doesnt need sustain or high hp at all, it is a fact. Condi burst kills faster than power atm. So, or they reduce the damage or they reduce the sustain/def/hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 > @"anjo.6143" said: > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > Yep it is that simple. > > > high risk- high reward > > > low risk - low reward > > > high skill requirement- high reward > > > low skill requirement - low reward > > > high sustain (mostly active , because mistake friendly facetank sustain should be reduce to a minimum anyway, what is also not the case in GW2)- low dmg > > > dot dmg -no burst and no double defensive ability (by needing that much less offensive stats for the same dmg than power) > > > > > > simple basic rules not existing in GW2 for most classes/ builds atm. > > > > LoL @ damage over time with no burst and low defense. Just say what you mean: I hate condi and I don't want to deal with it in my meta at all. We know how you feel. Just say it! > > Condi on this meta doesnt need sustain or high hp at all, it is a fact. Condi burst kills faster than power atm. So, or they reduce the damage or they reduce the sustain/def/hp. are you sure about that? what actually "burst" from condi? its just thief and mesmer. Meanwhile power necro has 7k autos, and 15min ago I got yeeted by barrage for 12,6k by holo, power damage is there, its time for people to learn how to deal with conditions properly. for far too long there were builds utterly immune to it, and people never had to learn how to play against them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 It's awesome as a warrior fighting a flamethrower scrapper that just stands and spams the flamethrower while shrugging of all ur bursts. Fought one for over full minute and couldn't hard cc him and he ate so many gs f1's and FC's cuz he was completely to skill less to actually avoid them in the fight, literally more than 6 of them with power boost from frenzy and for the whole minute just shrugged the damage off and eventually I didn't have the clears to keep up to the burning and either had to leave or die. That's pathetic to see as the scrapper literally just spammed the auto on flamethrower and no amount of my bursts could dent him yet his burns ate my hp so fast. Games complete gbage right now unless u run high sustain condi build. With the rate these devs are going I'm laughing my ass at how bad this game is, cant wait to see its population by next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 It wasn't good enough you could afk farm on flamethrower scrapper, they needed to make it viable in pvp too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anjo.6143 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"anjo.6143" said: > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > Yep it is that simple. > > > > high risk- high reward > > > > low risk - low reward > > > > high skill requirement- high reward > > > > low skill requirement - low reward > > > > high sustain (mostly active , because mistake friendly facetank sustain should be reduce to a minimum anyway, what is also not the case in GW2)- low dmg > > > > dot dmg -no burst and no double defensive ability (by needing that much less offensive stats for the same dmg than power) > > > > > > > > simple basic rules not existing in GW2 for most classes/ builds atm. > > > > > > LoL @ damage over time with no burst and low defense. Just say what you mean: I hate condi and I don't want to deal with it in my meta at all. We know how you feel. Just say it! > > > > Condi on this meta doesnt need sustain or high hp at all, it is a fact. Condi burst kills faster than power atm. So, or they reduce the damage or they reduce the sustain/def/hp. > > are you sure about that? what actually "burst" from condi? its just thief and mesmer. Meanwhile power necro has 7k autos, and 15min ago I got yeeted by barrage for 12,6k by holo, power damage is there, its time for people to learn how to deal with conditions properly. > for far too long there were builds utterly immune to it, and people never had to learn how to play against them Crev is fine and burn is ok? And yes, holo is the most broken atm. All classes that can make a condi build, the condi builds are killing WAY too faster than powers build, and they keep high HP. Also classes cant have both high sustain and high damage, that is basic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 > @"anjo.6143" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"anjo.6143" said: > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > Yep it is that simple. > > > > > high risk- high reward > > > > > low risk - low reward > > > > > high skill requirement- high reward > > > > > low skill requirement - low reward > > > > > high sustain (mostly active , because mistake friendly facetank sustain should be reduce to a minimum anyway, what is also not the case in GW2)- low dmg > > > > > dot dmg -no burst and no double defensive ability (by needing that much less offensive stats for the same dmg than power) > > > > > > > > > > simple basic rules not existing in GW2 for most classes/ builds atm. > > > > > > > > LoL @ damage over time with no burst and low defense. Just say what you mean: I hate condi and I don't want to deal with it in my meta at all. We know how you feel. Just say it! > > > > > > Condi on this meta doesnt need sustain or high hp at all, it is a fact. Condi burst kills faster than power atm. So, or they reduce the damage or they reduce the sustain/def/hp. > > > > are you sure about that? what actually "burst" from condi? its just thief and mesmer. Meanwhile power necro has 7k autos, and 15min ago I got yeeted by barrage for 12,6k by holo, power damage is there, its time for people to learn how to deal with conditions properly. > > for far too long there were builds utterly immune to it, and people never had to learn how to play against them > > Crev is fine and burn is ok? And yes, holo is the most broken atm. > All classes that can make a condi build, the condi builds are killing WAY too faster than powers build, and they keep high HP. > Also classes cant have both high sustain and high damage, that is basic but they do, and power builds do the same shit that condi builds do, but people pretend that condi builds are somehow broken just because condi hurr durr only 1 stat for dmg full tank hurr durr passive damage hurr durr. power rev, power holo, power necro/reaper they all have the same bullshit level of damage/sustain as the most bullshit of condi builds if not more. and when you really think about it its just crev that is insanely tanky from condi builds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anjo.6143 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"anjo.6143" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"anjo.6143" said: > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > Yep it is that simple. > > > > > > high risk- high reward > > > > > > low risk - low reward > > > > > > high skill requirement- high reward > > > > > > low skill requirement - low reward > > > > > > high sustain (mostly active , because mistake friendly facetank sustain should be reduce to a minimum anyway, what is also not the case in GW2)- low dmg > > > > > > dot dmg -no burst and no double defensive ability (by needing that much less offensive stats for the same dmg than power) > > > > > > > > > > > > simple basic rules not existing in GW2 for most classes/ builds atm. > > > > > > > > > > LoL @ damage over time with no burst and low defense. Just say what you mean: I hate condi and I don't want to deal with it in my meta at all. We know how you feel. Just say it! > > > > > > > > Condi on this meta doesnt need sustain or high hp at all, it is a fact. Condi burst kills faster than power atm. So, or they reduce the damage or they reduce the sustain/def/hp. > > > > > > are you sure about that? what actually "burst" from condi? its just thief and mesmer. Meanwhile power necro has 7k autos, and 15min ago I got yeeted by barrage for 12,6k by holo, power damage is there, its time for people to learn how to deal with conditions properly. > > > for far too long there were builds utterly immune to it, and people never had to learn how to play against them > > > > Crev is fine and burn is ok? And yes, holo is the most broken atm. > > All classes that can make a condi build, the condi builds are killing WAY too faster than powers build, and they keep high HP. > > Also classes cant have both high sustain and high damage, that is basic > > but they do, and power builds do the same kitten that condi builds do, but people pretend that condi builds are somehow broken just because condi hurr durr only 1 stat for dmg full tank hurr durr passive damage hurr durr. > power rev, power holo, power necro/reaper they all have the same kitten level of damage/sustain as the most kitten of condi builds if not more. > and when you really think about it its just crev that is insanely tanky from condi builds Holo is an outlier of everything, not in discussion, totally broken class. Condis kills faster and it has highest hp. Do u think that say "hurr duur" makes u have any point? It stills correct, 1 stat and power dont. What is ur point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 > @"anjo.6143" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"anjo.6143" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"anjo.6143" said: > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > Yep it is that simple. > > > > > > > high risk- high reward > > > > > > > low risk - low reward > > > > > > > high skill requirement- high reward > > > > > > > low skill requirement - low reward > > > > > > > high sustain (mostly active , because mistake friendly facetank sustain should be reduce to a minimum anyway, what is also not the case in GW2)- low dmg > > > > > > > dot dmg -no burst and no double defensive ability (by needing that much less offensive stats for the same dmg than power) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > simple basic rules not existing in GW2 for most classes/ builds atm. > > > > > > > > > > > > LoL @ damage over time with no burst and low defense. Just say what you mean: I hate condi and I don't want to deal with it in my meta at all. We know how you feel. Just say it! > > > > > > > > > > Condi on this meta doesnt need sustain or high hp at all, it is a fact. Condi burst kills faster than power atm. So, or they reduce the damage or they reduce the sustain/def/hp. > > > > > > > > are you sure about that? what actually "burst" from condi? its just thief and mesmer. Meanwhile power necro has 7k autos, and 15min ago I got yeeted by barrage for 12,6k by holo, power damage is there, its time for people to learn how to deal with conditions properly. > > > > for far too long there were builds utterly immune to it, and people never had to learn how to play against them > > > > > > Crev is fine and burn is ok? And yes, holo is the most broken atm. > > > All classes that can make a condi build, the condi builds are killing WAY too faster than powers build, and they keep high HP. > > > Also classes cant have both high sustain and high damage, that is basic > > > > but they do, and power builds do the same kitten that condi builds do, but people pretend that condi builds are somehow broken just because condi hurr durr only 1 stat for dmg full tank hurr durr passive damage hurr durr. > > power rev, power holo, power necro/reaper they all have the same kitten level of damage/sustain as the most kitten of condi builds if not more. > > and when you really think about it its just crev that is insanely tanky from condi builds > > Holo is an outlier of everything, not in discussion, totally broken class. Condis kills faster and it has highest hp. > Do u think that say "hurr duur" makes u have any point? It stills correct, 1 stat and power dont. What is ur point? > where is the amulet with 1 stat, condition damage? I will use, I promise. what about necro and rev? broken and outlier too? what about thief? mandatory in every team, outlier too? condi good = every condi needs nerfs power good = outlier, everything is fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Lol guy in wvw section ran arc dps in wvw and after zerk fight 80% damage was necro and burn guards, 15% ele, 5% rest- balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 > @"anjo.6143" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"anjo.6143" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"anjo.6143" said: > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > Yep it is that simple. > > > > > > > high risk- high reward > > > > > > > low risk - low reward > > > > > > > high skill requirement- high reward > > > > > > > low skill requirement - low reward > > > > > > > high sustain (mostly active , because mistake friendly facetank sustain should be reduce to a minimum anyway, what is also not the case in GW2)- low dmg > > > > > > > dot dmg -no burst and no double defensive ability (by needing that much less offensive stats for the same dmg than power) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > simple basic rules not existing in GW2 for most classes/ builds atm. > > > > > > > > > > > > LoL @ damage over time with no burst and low defense. Just say what you mean: I hate condi and I don't want to deal with it in my meta at all. We know how you feel. Just say it! > > > > > > > > > > Condi on this meta doesnt need sustain or high hp at all, it is a fact. Condi burst kills faster than power atm. So, or they reduce the damage or they reduce the sustain/def/hp. > > > > > > > > are you sure about that? what actually "burst" from condi? its just thief and mesmer. Meanwhile power necro has 7k autos, and 15min ago I got yeeted by barrage for 12,6k by holo, power damage is there, its time for people to learn how to deal with conditions properly. > > > > for far too long there were builds utterly immune to it, and people never had to learn how to play against them > > > > > > Crev is fine and burn is ok? And yes, holo is the most broken atm. > > > All classes that can make a condi build, the condi builds are killing WAY too faster than powers build, and they keep high HP. > > > Also classes cant have both high sustain and high damage, that is basic > > > > but they do, and power builds do the same kitten that condi builds do, but people pretend that condi builds are somehow broken just because condi hurr durr only 1 stat for dmg full tank hurr durr passive damage hurr durr. > > power rev, power holo, power necro/reaper they all have the same kitten level of damage/sustain as the most kitten of condi builds if not more. > > and when you really think about it its just crev that is insanely tanky from condi builds > > Holo is an outlier of everything, not in discussion, totally broken class. Condis kills faster and it has highest hp. > Do u think that say "hurr duur" makes u have any point? It stills correct, 1 stat and power dont. What is ur point? > While saying "hurr durr" does not a point make, neither does repeatedly insisting that what you say is true. Condi does not kill faster than power and you can cleanse it. Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > Lol guy in wvw section ran arc dps in wvw and after zerk fight 80% damage was necro and burn guards, 15% ele, 5% rest- balance. Yeah! It's like saying that regen contributes most of the healing and then extrapolating from that to say that regen is the best heal in the game! Oh, so bursty! Look at all that delicious healing from regen! Nobody can kill me now! Oh oh! I know! Let's post another 5 minute death log with 300k burn damage listed as the top damage move! That'll prove the point even better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurantien.4632 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 The problem is their design philosophy when it comes to traitlines - the belief that defensive traitlines should be purely defensive and offensive traitlines purely offensive instead of a mix of offense/sustain or offense/utility while meanwhile having high base damage due to stats instead of damage modifiers. Lets look at Ranger: Wilderness Survival: Purely Defensive - Condi clear - Sustain (healing) - Tankiness (protection) - Stunbreak cd reduction Marksmanship: Offensive, minor utility - Damage modifiers for GS or LB Skirmishing: Offensive (traps), utility (Quickdraw) Beastmastery: Offensive/Sustain/Utility - Pet stat buff - quickness and superspeed on pet swap - regen access Nature Magic: Defensive/support: Mostly just provides defense to the ranger in different ways than WS The problem is that as a ranger vs a ranger I can take WS and NM and just straight up beat you if you are running utility/offensive traitlines and forgo the defensive ones. This was not always the case. When expansions came out a dps ranger could beat other rangers still - but since the repeated damage and CD nerfs to ranger offensive lines and weapons, it is no longer possible for a dps ranger to kill a defense traitline ranger of (somewhat) lesser skill - this is how it was back in core. You simply cannot do enough damage or sustain long enough to be able to land a burst combo that could down someone running WS (the pure defense traitline). I believe, that the traitlines should be diversed. Add condi clear and/or sustain to like skirmishing for example. Now all of a sudden you can take your multiple offensive/utility traitlines but you aren't entirely defensive. Although you'd have access to some condi clear for example you would not have access to protection - making you more vulnerable to power damage. It could also be made so that whatever condi clear is in skirmishing incentivized taking something besides survival skills to prevent people from going full defense traitline + another (now kind of) defensive traitline. With this, someone opting for more dps would have more sustain and a more likely chance at beating someone going full defense. In this way we could flavor the traitlines to (sort of how thief kind of does) to favor different playstyles rather than just pure take defensive traits and win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 > @"Eurantien.4632" said: > The problem is their design philosophy when it comes to traitlines - the belief that defensive traitlines should be purely defensive and offensive traitlines purely offensive That's the intent, yet eng, rev, and ranger have multiple traitlines that do both offense and defense. No wonder ranger eng and rev are the 3 best classes in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurantien.4632 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > > @"Eurantien.4632" said: > > The problem is their design philosophy when it comes to traitlines - the belief that defensive traitlines should be purely defensive and offensive traitlines purely offensive > > That's the intent, yet eng, rev, and ranger have multiple traitlines that do both offense and defense. No wonder ranger eng and rev are the 3 best classes in the game. Ranger is garbage at top tier. That's another problem in their design philosophy. They dont balance around the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonSlayer.1087 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Symbol Guardians... Prot Holosmoth... Rangers... Weavers... Herald... gg ANET. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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