Warrior Longbow

[Taril.8619]

What's the deal with this thing?

 

Why does it feel like every skill has a weird 0.5s delay before it starts to cast?

 

Also, does Pin Down pierce? It seems to, but it doesn't state it on the skill.

 

Oh and Combustive Shot... "Effect increases with adrenaline level" What effect? Does it do more damage? Burn more? Last longer? Bigger radius? Does it spawn pixies? Does it create more sadness? Heck if I know from reading the skill since the game doesn't state any changes from adrenaline on it.

 

P.s. Arcing Shot y u so useless?

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> What's the deal with this thing?

>

> Why does it feel like every skill has a weird 0.5s delay before it starts to cast?

 

Not sure what answer you're expecting here ;p

 

> Also, does Pin Down pierce? It seems to, but it doesn't state it on the skill.

 

Yes

 

> Oh and Combustive Shot... "Effect increases with adrenaline level" What effect? Does it do more damage? Burn more? Last longer? Bigger radius? Does it spawn pixies? Does it create more sadness? Heck if I know from reading the skill since the game doesn't state any changes from adrenaline on it.

 

Duration increase and more pulses, which converts into overally more dmg.

 

Should it be specified ingame?

Yes, I think so.

Will it be?


[Chaarliee.2307]

Trash of a weapon right now, along with multiple others weapons for a class that supposed to be "Masters of Weaponry" (said by the game itself).

The only think that I kind of rescue about longbow is the fact that the F1 skill applies "Combo field (fire)". Longbow and torch, are the only weapons in warrior that applies combo fields right now (someone correct me here if I'm wrong), isn't that kind of kitten up ?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Chaarliee.2307" said:

> Trash of a weapon right now, along with multiple others weapons for a class that supposed to be "Masters of Weaponry" (said by the game itself).

> The only think that I kind of rescue about longbow is the fact that the F1 skill applies "Combo field (fire)". Longbow and torch, are the only weapons in warrior that applies combo fields right now (someone correct me here if I'm wrong), isn't that kind of kitten up ?

 

It's very fcked up. They would have to increase the burn stacks everywhere before it gets good for general play.

[Taril.8619]

> @"Chaarliee.2307" said:

> Trash of a weapon right now, along with multiple others weapons for a class that supposed to be "Masters of Weaponry" (said by the game itself).

 

To be fair, it's a problem with all classes. A significant portion of Core weapons suck.

 

With Warrior having it worse because they have a larger number of Core weapons, thus a larger portion of their entire weapon pool sucks.

 

> @"Chaarliee.2307" said:

> The only think that I kind of rescue about longbow is the fact that the F1 skill applies "Combo field (fire)". Longbow and torch, are the only weapons in warrior that applies combo fields right now (someone correct me here if I'm wrong), isn't that kind of kitten up ?

 

Well, this is due to Warrior is seemingly supposed to be the "Martial" class, with little to no magic (Though how one would explain GS and Sword skill 4's without magic... If I've thrown my sword at the enemy, why am I still whacking them with it?)

 

While it's magic that produces most of the combo fields, with only Fire and Smoke being plausible for martial weapons (Such as guns, torches and flaming arrows on a longbow)

 

It's likely also why of Warriors 15 weapons, only 4 of them are Condition weapons (Sword MH, Sword OH, LB and Torch) because without magic there's only so many ways of using the reasoning "You cut them and they bleed!" to explain the function of a weapon. Though since the release of Torment, that has potential to exist given it is often justified as "Pain" rather than explicitly magical (And it has since appeared on Sword 4 and as a result makes Sword OH even worse because a Condi War will be focusing on Bleed (Sword MH) and Burn (Torch) not Torment...)

 

They could do with retconning in some magical affinity for Warrior and then spruce up some lackluster weapons with some magical effects to improve them and introduce more Combo Fields into Warriors arsenal (Especially if the idea is to keep the Bannerslave meme going, let the Bannerslaves also produce Combo Fields to help the team too). Much like they retconned Thief into having more of a "Dark Magic" theme with Traps becoming Preparations leading into the Deadeye E-Spec that uses Cantrips based on Shadow Magic (Since Thief used to also be in a similar boat of being a "Martial" class, along with weapons devoid of Combo Fields, just Smoke on Pistol 5 and Poison on SB 4... I mean this is still the case with their only new Combo Field from a weapon being another Smoke field on Rifle Kneel 4)

[XenoSpyro.1780]

Warrior Longbow is a condition weapon, best used as a Berserker. Invest into Condi stats and runes with +Burn duration.

Yes, skill firing is unfortunately slow, and I wish it was better able to contend with Power Ranger Longbow to some degree, starting with arrow velocity.

Arcing shot is a pretty decent (not great) Power skill, but it's only useful to Condi's as a blast finisher.

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> Well, this is due to Warrior is seemingly supposed to be the "Martial" class, with little to no magic

I have a theory that all classes occasionally use some form of magic to use some skills, despite being inherently physical. Please explain Rampage or Bull's Charge physics if it's not assisted with magic.

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> They could do with retconning in some magical affinity..... introduce more Combo Fields into Warriors arsenal

They did this already, it's called Spellbreaker.

 

[Edge.8724]

I don't hate longbow, but it is indeed slow and its damage seems to be divided between power and condi.

[Opopanax.1803]

My first (and still main) character was a warrior rocking Longbow + axe/horn. It was awesome back in vanilla - aoe, swiftness, and good finishers in fire fields. Not only that but longbow back than had a lot more character than ranger longbow.

 

Sadly, longbow has not done well as only Berserker has helped it. It is now outcompeted in every build by power based weapons. It is so slow that you have to use it like a melee weapon for it to be effective! There was even a test someone had done where you could outrun Arcing Arrow without swiftness and get in the impact zone at the same time Without Swiftness!!! Crazy!

 

Even more pathetic, the last move of the tactics (Longbow CD reduction, and Autoattacks add burning) was moved to another trait line that has even worse options than tactics did!

 

Longbow is one of the only core condi weapons (the other two, MH and OH sword also need help). The burning on Auto needs to be baseline, and the Combustive Field shot should add some burning stacks. These default changes would help a lot.

 

Also, if you must keep that poor excuse for a trait, for the love of all that is holy, move it to Arms!

[DanAlcedo.3281]

All i want is that Comb Field becomes 10 Targets and pulses every 1.5 seconds.

 

T1: 5 Targets

T2: 7 Targets

T3: 10 Targets

[Taril.8619]

> @"Opopanax.1803" said:

>It is so slow that you have to use it like a melee weapon for it to be effective!

 

To be fair, the functionality of skill 2 already wants you to use it in melee.

 

Making it a melee weapon... With 1200 range...

 

I don't quite understand that design to be honest.

 

Like, I understand Engie's melee rifle, since they were going for a "Shotgun" style with it so getting up close for Blunderbuss and Jump Shot makes sense given the stereotype of shotguns having short range.

 

But War's melee Longbow? I haven't a clue what they were going for with the design.

 

What makes it even more funny, is that skill 1 fires two arrows with perfect accuracy up to 1200 range. Skill 2 adds one more arrow and all of a sudden, only one arrow is accurate, the other two fly off to hit some random target 5 miles away...

 

 

[cryorion.9532]

I've been playing with some builds in the past weeks in WvW and longbow spellbreaker is one of my favorite builds. The worst thing about longbow is that it is slow af, especially Arcing Arrow and Combustive Shot. If those aren't the slowest skills to land in the game then idk...

Fan of Fire is fast, can crit for like 4-5k with sigil of air and fire in melee range and it also pierces. Pin Down -> Arcing Arrow -> Bull's Charge -> Fan of Fire -> weapon swap with Hydromancy sigil -> Arcing Slice.

In WvW, longbow has good advantage of beind ranged (so you can avoid most of current aids) and having big aoes, soft target control is really handy and Combustive Shot + Magebane Tether have funny interactions, people don't expect it. Also, if there are enemy reflects up, the Combustive Shot is big enough to land right next to it and it will still hit targets. The enemy aegis strip is also useful.

It is pretty good for what warrior has available atm, however it is still kind of gimmick weapon (except PvE berserker) that could get some love, like increasing speed on autoattacks, Arcing Arrow and Combustive Shot.

Also started experimenting with chill spam through rune of Grenth, Ice Sigil, Hydromancy Sigil and Chili Pepper Popper food, but haven't tested it that much yet.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"cryorion.9532" said:

> I've been playing with some builds in the past weeks in WvW and longbow spellbreaker is one of my favorite builds. The worst thing about longbow is that it is slow af, especially Arcing Arrow and Combustive Shot. If those aren't the slowest skills to land in the game then idk...

> Fan of Fire is fast, can crit for like 4-5k with sigil of air and fire in melee range and it also pierces. Pin Down -> Arcing Arrow -> Bull's Charge -> Fan of Fire -> weapon swap with Hydromancy sigil -> Arcing Slice.

> In WvW, longbow has good advantage of beind ranged (so you can avoid most of current aids) and having big aoes, soft target control is really handy and Combustive Shot + Magebane Tether have funny interactions, people don't expect it. Also, if there are enemy reflects up, the Combustive Shot is big enough to land right next to it and it will still hit targets. The enemy aegis strip is also useful.

> It is pretty good for what warrior has available atm, however it is still kind of gimmick weapon (except PvE berserker) that could get some love, like increasing speed on autoattacks, Arcing Arrow and Combustive Shot.

> Also started experimenting with chill spam through rune of Grenth, Ice Sigil, Hydromancy Sigil and Chili Pepper Popper food, but haven't tested it that much yet.

 

I'm not saying I haven't had fun with LB. Hell, I've out ranged a LB Ranger with my LB and ran circles around a Spellbreaker with it and I wasn't even running condi stats with it then.

 

But it needs an overhaul at this point. There is a thread somewhere not too long ago about it (several in fact).

 

Here is what I recommended in one of them:

 

Increase the projectile speed on AA, make Burning default on AA, update crack shot so that LB has a 33% chance to cause 1s of burning on a crit.

Fan of Fire, add 1 more arrow along with burn on it. Tighten the cone so that at least 2 arrows will hit the same target at max range if the target is in the middle of the cone (I guess the spread would be 240 width at max range?).

Pin Down now on third slot, 12s cd 6 stacks of bleed for 6s, 1s immob.

Smoldering arrow, increase radius to 240.

Rain of Fire 20s CD, channel while being mobile, 12 hits with a damage interval of 0.6s burn Duration 4s/2s per hit, duration split for PvE/Comp. Each hit applies a 1s cripple.

 

Rain of Fire was apparently a warrior longbow skill during development at some point, but got cut from the game. It appears to have been similar to Barrage, what I put above is more of a burn version of barrage.

[Teratus.2859]

Have to agree, I love Longbow on Ranger but it feels very underwhelming on Warrior..

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> > @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> >It is so slow that you have to use it like a melee weapon for it to be effective!

>

> To be fair, the functionality of skill 2 already wants you to use it in melee.

>

> Making it a melee weapon... With 1200 range...

>

> I don't quite understand that design to be honest.

>

> Like, I understand Engie's melee rifle, since they were going for a "Shotgun" style with it so getting up close for Blunderbuss and Jump Shot makes sense given the stereotype of shotguns having short range.

>

> But War's melee Longbow? I haven't a clue what they were going for with the design.

 

That's because in this game the usual weapon archetype doesn't really matter and anet can make them do whatever they want. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, aside from the initial time it takes for the player to understand that. 1200 range just means that you can still do *something* while getting in your opponents face or while they're trying to get away from you.

I'd be way more surprised if it was on the ranger longbow levels of burst with 1500+ range while still being able to basically be a 25k+ hp minitank.

 

> What makes it even more funny, is that skill 1 fires two arrows with perfect accuracy up to 1200 range. Skill 2 adds one more arrow and all of a sudden, only one arrow is accurate, the other two fly off to hit some random target 5 miles away...

 

You can say similar thing about many skills/weapons/classes in the game. And the answer is pretty easy: it's a game and looking for some kind of "realism" when it comes to balancing it makes no sense.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Taril.8619" said:

> > > @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> > >It is so slow that you have to use it like a melee weapon for it to be effective!

> >

> > To be fair, the functionality of skill 2 already wants you to use it in melee.

> >

> > Making it a melee weapon... With 1200 range...

> >

> > I don't quite understand that design to be honest.

> >

> > Like, I understand Engie's melee rifle, since they were going for a "Shotgun" style with it so getting up close for Blunderbuss and Jump Shot makes sense given the stereotype of shotguns having short range.

> >

> > But War's melee Longbow? I haven't a clue what they were going for with the design.

>

> That's because in this game the usual weapon archetype doesn't really matter and anet can make them do whatever they want. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, aside from the initial time it takes for the player to understand that. 1200 range just means that you can still do *something* while getting in your opponents face or while they're trying to get away from you.

> I'd be way more surprised if it was on the ranger longbow levels of burst with 1500+ range while still being able to basically be a 25k+ hp minitank.

>

> > What makes it even more funny, is that skill 1 fires two arrows with perfect accuracy up to 1200 range. Skill 2 adds one more arrow and all of a sudden, only one arrow is accurate, the other two fly off to hit some random target 5 miles away...

>

> You can say similar thing about many skills/weapons/classes in the game. And the answer is pretty easy: it's a game and looking for some kind of "realism" when it comes to balancing it makes no sense.

 

But ranger can out tank wars if built right so....

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Taril.8619" said:

> > > > @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> > > >It is so slow that you have to use it like a melee weapon for it to be effective!

> > >

> > > To be fair, the functionality of skill 2 already wants you to use it in melee.

> > >

> > > Making it a melee weapon... With 1200 range...

> > >

> > > I don't quite understand that design to be honest.

> > >

> > > Like, I understand Engie's melee rifle, since they were going for a "Shotgun" style with it so getting up close for Blunderbuss and Jump Shot makes sense given the stereotype of shotguns having short range.

> > >

> > > But War's melee Longbow? I haven't a clue what they were going for with the design.

> >

> > That's because in this game the usual weapon archetype doesn't really matter and anet can make them do whatever they want. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, aside from the initial time it takes for the player to understand that. 1200 range just means that you can still do *something* while getting in your opponents face or while they're trying to get away from you.

> > I'd be way more surprised if it was on the ranger longbow levels of burst with 1500+ range while still being able to basically be a 25k+ hp minitank.

> >

> > > What makes it even more funny, is that skill 1 fires two arrows with perfect accuracy up to 1200 range. Skill 2 adds one more arrow and all of a sudden, only one arrow is accurate, the other two fly off to hit some random target 5 miles away...

> >

> > You can say similar thing about many skills/weapons/classes in the game. And the answer is pretty easy: it's a game and looking for some kind of "realism" when it comes to balancing it makes no sense.

>

> But ranger can out tank wars if built right so....

 

Depending what builds you're comparing I guess.

And it still wasn't the main point of my post.

[Taril.8619]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> That's because in this game the usual weapon archetype doesn't really matter and anet can make them do whatever they want. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, aside from the initial time it takes for the player to understand that. 1200 range just means that you can still do *something* while getting in your opponents face or while they're trying to get away from you.

 

The "Usual weapon archetype" isn't even a factor in my analysis.

 

I was looking at how it has been implemented. Where it is 4 skills that work perfectly fine (Sans travel time issues with Arcing Shot) up to 1200 range and then 1 skill that has an effective range of 0 (That is also the primary damage skill)

 

This has a lack of clear direction in design.

 

At least something like Engie Rifle that is attempting to be a sort of shotgun style weapon, has limited range on its damaging skills (Blunderbuss is 900 and Jump Shot is 800, not accounting for their increased power from being even closer)

 

If the intent was for it to be a close range longbow, then I'd have expected to see skills having limited ranges further reinforced by similar power increases from being close (Though, one would have to question why Shortbow wasn't used instead at that point) as well as some assistance with bridging gaps to get into optimal range.

 

If the intent is to have a 1200 range weapon, then I'd have expected skill 2 to be functional at range. Possibly with some way of creating distance (Similar to Rifle's Brutal Shot)

 

This conflict in design also manifests itself on Warrior's Harpoon Gun, where skill 3 is again a close range skill but skills 4 and 5 put distance between you and your target. But at least in the case of Harpoon Gun it has the excuse of trying to emulate both Longbow and Rifle (Well... It's basically underwater Rifle but with LB skill 2 as its skill 3. With Rifle 3 and 5 combined to make HG 5)

 

 

[Opopanax.1803]

> @"cryorion.9532" said:

> I've been playing with some builds in the past weeks in WvW and longbow spellbreaker is one of my favorite builds. The worst thing about longbow is that it is slow af, especially Arcing Arrow and Combustive Shot. If those aren't the slowest skills to land in the game then idk...

> Fan of Fire is fast, can crit for like 4-5k with sigil of air and fire in melee range and it also pierces. Pin Down -> Arcing Arrow -> Bull's Charge -> Fan of Fire -> weapon swap with Hydromancy sigil -> Arcing Slice.

> In WvW, longbow has good advantage of beind ranged (so you can avoid most of current aids) and having big aoes, soft target control is really handy and Combustive Shot + Magebane Tether have funny interactions, people don't expect it. Also, if there are enemy reflects up, the Combustive Shot is big enough to land right next to it and it will still hit targets. The enemy aegis strip is also useful.

> It is pretty good for what warrior has available atm, however it is still kind of gimmick weapon (except PvE berserker) that could get some love, like increasing speed on autoattacks, Arcing Arrow and Combustive Shot.

> Also started experimenting with chill spam through rune of Grenth, Ice Sigil, Hydromancy Sigil and Chili Pepper Popper food, but haven't tested it that much yet.

 

This is nice to hear, but how sad is that that it performs better as a niche SB power weapon than a condi one? That is outright sad!

 

The best thing about Longbow is the guaranteed finisher, which gives you near certainty that traits will proc.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > That's because in this game the usual weapon archetype doesn't really matter and anet can make them do whatever they want. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, aside from the initial time it takes for the player to understand that. 1200 range just means that you can still do *something* while getting in your opponents face or while they're trying to get away from you.

>

> The "Usual weapon archetype" isn't even a factor in my analysis.

>

> I was looking at how it has been implemented. Where it is 4 skills that work perfectly fine (Sans travel time issues with Arcing Shot) up to 1200 range and then 1 skill that has an effective range of 0 (That is also the primary damage skill)

>

> This has a lack of clear direction in design.

>

> At least something like Engie Rifle that is attempting to be a sort of shotgun style weapon, has limited range on its damaging skills (Blunderbuss is 900 and Jump Shot is 800, not accounting for their increased power from being even closer)

>

> If the intent was for it to be a close range longbow, then I'd have expected to see skills having limited ranges further reinforced by similar power increases from being close (Though, one would have to question why Shortbow wasn't used instead at that point) as well as some assistance with bridging gaps to get into optimal range.

>

> If the intent is to have a 1200 range weapon, then I'd have expected skill 2 to be functional at range. Possibly with some way of creating distance (Similar to Rifle's Brutal Shot)

>

> This conflict in design also manifests itself on Warrior's Harpoon Gun, where skill 3 is again a close range skill but skills 4 and 5 put distance between you and your target. But at least in the case of Harpoon Gun it has the excuse of trying to emulate both Longbow and Rifle (Well... It's basically underwater Rifle but with LB skill 2 as its skill 3. With Rifle 3 and 5 combined to make HG 5)

 

So basically complaining about not being able to spam kitten "off cooldown" from max range? I disagree with the idea that every skill of a given weapon needs to perform identically -or even similarily- in every situation/distance/position. In fact, I'd "risk" saying I think the opposite, which is why I don't exactly see that as a problem.

 

Also the weapon performs better at close range, but you have an option to use it at 1200 if needed. I fail to see how it's such a terrible design decision. Are you saying that simply lowering range of 1/2/3/4/5 skills to -let's say- 600 would make its design and gameplay so much better? I fail to see the logic in that. Or I just fail to understand what exactly your point here is.

[Opopanax.1803]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Taril.8619" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > That's because in this game the usual weapon archetype doesn't really matter and anet can make them do whatever they want. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, aside from the initial time it takes for the player to understand that. 1200 range just means that you can still do *something* while getting in your opponents face or while they're trying to get away from you.

> >

> > The "Usual weapon archetype" isn't even a factor in my analysis.

> >

> > I was looking at how it has been implemented. Where it is 4 skills that work perfectly fine (Sans travel time issues with Arcing Shot) up to 1200 range and then 1 skill that has an effective range of 0 (That is also the primary damage skill)

> >

> > This has a lack of clear direction in design.

> >

> > At least something like Engie Rifle that is attempting to be a sort of shotgun style weapon, has limited range on its damaging skills (Blunderbuss is 900 and Jump Shot is 800, not accounting for their increased power from being even closer)

> >

> > If the intent was for it to be a close range longbow, then I'd have expected to see skills having limited ranges further reinforced by similar power increases from being close (Though, one would have to question why Shortbow wasn't used instead at that point) as well as some assistance with bridging gaps to get into optimal range.

> >

> > If the intent is to have a 1200 range weapon, then I'd have expected skill 2 to be functional at range. Possibly with some way of creating distance (Similar to Rifle's Brutal Shot)

> >

> > This conflict in design also manifests itself on Warrior's Harpoon Gun, where skill 3 is again a close range skill but skills 4 and 5 put distance between you and your target. But at least in the case of Harpoon Gun it has the excuse of trying to emulate both Longbow and Rifle (Well... It's basically underwater Rifle but with LB skill 2 as its skill 3. With Rifle 3 and 5 combined to make HG 5)

>

> So basically complaining about not being able to spam kitten "off cooldown" from max range? I disagree with the idea that every skill of a given weapon needs to perform identically -or even similarily- in every situation/distance/position. In fact, I'd "risk" saying I think the opposite, which is why I don't exactly see that as a problem.

>

> Also the weapon performs better at close range, but you have an option to use it at 1200 if needed. I fail to see how it's such a terrible design decision. Are you saying that simply lowering range of 1/2/3/4/5 skills to -let's say- 600 would make its design and gameplay so much better? I fail to see the logic in that. Or I just fail to understand what exactly your point here is.

 

I dont think their argument is great, per se, because there are many "spread piercing ranged" attacks, such as Ranger's Shortbow that do nearly identical thing.

 

The bigger issue that I do think that Taril is subtly getting at is that because auto, 2, 3 and F1 are so slow, the entire weapon kit becomes very much a melee range type of deal.

 

Is it a dealbreaker? No, as you point out, you still "could" attack at range.

Is it strange and poor design that 50% of the warrior's ranged weapons available to it work the best at 300 range? yes, definately yes and some minor improvements in speed could help this quite a bit.

[Taril.8619]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> So basically complaining about not being able to spam kitten "off cooldown" from max range?

 

No. I'm complaining about a lack of direction for the design of the weapon.

 

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> I disagree with the idea that every skill of a given weapon needs to perform identically -or even similarily- in every situation/distance/position. In fact, I'd "risk" saying I think the opposite, which is why I don't exactly see that as a problem.

 

If you actually read my post, you'd know that I never said anything like this.

 

I stated that every skill of a weapon should work towards a particular playstyle. Which is why I have no qualms with Rifle having Rifle Butt as a 120 range skill or Ranger LB having Point Blank Shot that is more potent while up close, because both of those skills while being close range vs the rest of the skills long range focus still work towards the same playstyle because they're about putting distance between you and your enemy which is still a focus on ranged combat.

 

Warrior's Longbow doesn't have all of its skills work towards a similar playstyle. Skills 1, 4 and 5 are all functional at any range. Skill 3 is just janky with its slow travel time. Skill 2 promotes being close but has nothing to help get close in the first place (Besides immob on skill 5)

 

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> Also the weapon performs better at close range, but you have an option to use it at 1200 if needed. I fail to see how it's such a terrible design decision. Are you saying that simply lowering range of 1/2/3/4/5 skills to -let's say- 600 would make its design and gameplay so much better? I fail to see the logic in that. Or I just fail to understand what exactly your point here is.

 

Maybe you should try reading my posts then. Here, I'll repost the relevant part of my last post:

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> If the intent was for it to be a close range longbow, then I'd have expected to see skills having limited ranges further reinforced by similar power increases from being close (Though, one would have to question why Shortbow wasn't used instead at that point) as well as some assistance with bridging gaps to get into optimal range.

>

> If the intent is to have a 1200 range weapon, then I'd have expected skill 2 to be functional at range. Possibly with some way of creating distance (Similar to Rifle's Brutal Shot)

>

> This conflict in design also manifests itself on Warrior's Harpoon Gun, where skill 3 is again a close range skill but skills 4 and 5 put distance between you and your target. But at least in the case of Harpoon Gun it has the excuse of trying to emulate both Longbow and Rifle (Well... It's basically underwater Rifle but with LB skill 2 as its skill 3. With Rifle 3 and 5 combined to make HG 5)

 

Here I noted that if it was supposed to be a melee range weapon, to have more focus from skills to be in melee range. Personally, from using the thing, some way of closing distances to utilize the skill 2 would feel a lot better (As well as provide additional support for Warrior's other weapons which are predominantly melee)

 

Or if it's supposed to be a ranged weapon, having more focus on being functional at range and potentially similar gap opening mechanics as seen on Rifle (Skill 4 and 5) as well as Ranger LB (Skill 4 being a knockback, skill 3 being stealth to try and escape)

 

> @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> I dont think their argument is great, per se, because there are many "spread piercing ranged" attacks, such as Ranger's Shortbow that do nearly identical thing.

 

The thing about other "Spread piercing ranged" attack weapons, is that their general design promotes closer ranged playstyles beyond the single skill.

 

Ranger Shortbow for example, promotes close range fighting because it allows you to more easily move around your target to hit from the flank/back in order to get the bonus effects on its skills as well as having only 900 max range.

 

Ranger Axe needs to be paired with a weapon which will most likely end up requiring melee range (Axe, Dagger and Torch OH all have melee range skills with Dagger and Torch being ones that would pair best with Axe due to condi focus) on top of its 900 max range.

 

Engie Rifle promotes close range fighting to use Jump Shot most effectively (So you can hit with the leap and the landing) in addition to its Blunderbuss (Which is effectively the same as "Spread piercing ranged" attacks) not to mention Firearms traits providing critical bonuses for being close.

 

While for Warrior LB it's just 1 skill promoting a close ranged playstyle (With minor benefit to landing Arcing Shot at close range due to travel time. Though Arcing Shot in general feels out of place on the Longbow, with the burst, skill 2, skill 5 and when traited skill 1 all pushing a Condi playstyle while Arcing Shot provides just Power damage and a Blast Finisher, which doesn't really help a Condi build much outside of a few stacks of Might if used in a Fire Field)

[TeqkOneStylez.8047]

Only the auto attack speed needs addressing really. The mid range style of everything else is fine.

 

Rifle has the range people want and its still terrible in pvp. Longbow over rifle all day.

[Curennos.9307]

Why does longbow AA require a trait to not be garbage for condi setups tho

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > So basically complaining about not being able to spam kitten "off cooldown" from max range?

>

> No. I'm complaining about a lack of direction for the design of the weapon.

 

And I told you why I think it's not necessarily a "lack of direction for the design".

 

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > I disagree with the idea that every skill of a given weapon needs to perform identically -or even similarily- in every situation/distance/position. In fact, I'd "risk" saying I think the opposite, which is why I don't exactly see that as a problem.

>

> If you actually read my post, you'd know that I never said anything like this.

>

> I stated that every skill of a weapon should work towards a particular playstyle. Which is why I have no qualms with Rifle having Rifle Butt as a 120 range skill or Ranger LB having Point Blank Shot that is more potent while up close, because both of those skills while being close range vs the rest of the skills long range focus still work towards the same playstyle because they're about putting distance between you and your enemy which is still a focus on ranged combat.

 

 

Believe it or not, I actually DID read your posts and few of the things I saw there were:

 

"**To be fair, the functionality of skill 2 already wants you to use it in melee.

Making it a melee weapon... With 1200 range...**"

Hence: "I disagree with the idea that every skill of a given weapon needs to perform identically -or even similarily- in every situation/distance/position. In fact, I'd "risk" saying I think the opposite, which is why I don't exactly see that as a problem." -you really don't see the connection between the two?

 

"**I was looking at how it has been implemented. Where it is 4 skills that work perfectly fine (Sans travel time issues with Arcing Shot) up to 1200 range and then 1 skill that has an effective range of 0 (That is also the primary damage skill)**"

One skill not performing perfectly at long range somehow makes the whole weapon design unthinkable, but when I comment "I disagree that every skill of a given weapon needs to perform identically in every situation/distance/position", you decide to sarcastically tell me that's not what you were saying and apparently I didn't read what you wrote? If that's not what you've meant here, then I feel it's not about my reading, but more about your writing.

Or maybe you still don't see how that answer was relevant to what you wrote before?

 

Also something about "engie being short range is ok, because of stereotype of shotgun", but then you told me "**The "Usual weapon archetype" isn't even a factor in my analysis.**"

I mean at this point it just looks to me like your justification/analysis(??) -or however you want to call it- is all over the place simply based on what argument you couuuuld stretch to support your point at any given moment. Then you try to claim it's not about that. Well, it sure looks like it is in your earlier posts, but if that's not what you've meant then fine by me. Then again, at least stop pretending you didn't write it and tell me I failed at reading what you've said. Because pretty sure that IS what you said, even if you didn't mean it.

 

> Warrior's Longbow doesn't have all of its skills work towards a similar playstyle. Skills 1, 4 and 5 are all functional at any range. Skill 3 is just janky with its slow travel time. Skill 2 promotes being close but has nothing to help get close in the first place (Besides immob on skill 5)

 

Ah yes, weapon swap and utility skills are disabled while using longbow, my bad.

 

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > Also the weapon performs better at close range, but you have an option to use it at 1200 if needed. I fail to see how it's such a terrible design decision. Are you saying that simply lowering range of 1/2/3/4/5 skills to -let's say- 600 would make its design and gameplay so much better? I fail to see the logic in that. Or I just fail to understand what exactly your point here is.

>

> Maybe you should try reading my posts then. Here, I'll repost the relevant part of my last post:

> > @"Taril.8619" said:

> > If the intent was for it to be a close range longbow, then I'd have expected to see skills having limited ranges further reinforced by similar power increases from being close (Though, one would have to question why Shortbow wasn't used instead at that point) as well as some assistance with bridging gaps to get into optimal range.

> >

> > If the intent is to have a 1200 range weapon, then I'd have expected skill 2 to be functional at range. Possibly with some way of creating distance (Similar to Rifle's Brutal Shot)

> >

> > This conflict in design also manifests itself on Warrior's Harpoon Gun, where skill 3 is again a close range skill but skills 4 and 5 put distance between you and your target. But at least in the case of Harpoon Gun it has the excuse of trying to emulate both Longbow and Rifle (Well... It's basically underwater Rifle but with LB skill 2 as its skill 3. With Rifle 3 and 5 combined to make HG 5)

>

> Here I noted that if it was supposed to be a melee range weapon, to have more focus from skills to be in melee range. Personally, from using the thing, some way of closing distances to utilize the skill 2 would feel a lot better (As well as provide additional support for Warrior's other weapons which are predominantly melee)

>

> Or if it's supposed to be a ranged weapon, having more focus on being functional at range and potentially similar gap opening mechanics as seen on Rifle (Skill 4 and 5) as well as Ranger LB (Skill 4 being a knockback, skill 3 being stealth to try and escape)

 

Yes, so lowering the range on all of the skills tells you clearly it's meant to be a short range weapon, there's no longer any doubt about the range you need to be in, perfect fix!

Pretty sure lack of gapcloser was never a determinant for the range the specific weapon should be optimally used at. And still -weapon swap. Weapons don't work in vacuum, they -usually- work with the rest of the class' kit.

 

[cryorion.9532]

@"Opopanax.1803"

Well ofc longbow isn't nowhere near meta builds (outside of PvE), but there isn't much else to do in this "balance" other than trying out crazy stuff.

 

@"Lan Deathrider.5910"

Imo longbow needs additional combo field, preferably on longbow 3. Poison field would be pretty good, sulphur themed. Pin Down CD can be reduced to 20 seconds. I agree on Smoldering Arrow to get radius increase to 240 units. Combustive Shot can pulse damage and burn ticks per second instead of every 3 seconds. The burning stack can be changed from 2 per hit to 1 to balance it.