Upcoming Balance Notes

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Black Storm.6974" said:

> I think that splitting the game modes completely would lower a lot an already low PvP population.

Experience from PvE is already mostly useless in PvP modes (and vice versa). Someone trying to play the same way in both modes, or use lessons learned in one mode in another is not going to end up with good results. And that was even true before any skill splits even started. The gameplay style is _that_ much different. As such, if you went a bit further with it, i doubt it would have any negative impact at all. If anything, it might _improve_ the situation, by allowing better balance in each mode.

 

> Splitting numbers is more than enough.

Shade case this time (and, for eample, some of the earlier Confusion reworks, out of a ton of _many_ changes that were made for the sake of one mode, but ended up breaking things in another) have shown that no, splitting numbers is nowhere close to be enough.

 

> Instead, I’d appreciate more communication between PvP and PvE balance teams

As far as we know, there are _no_ mode-specific balance teams. We've heard few times from both WvW and PvP team devs that they have no direct impact on skill balance at all (all balance, regerdless of modes, was being done by a single skill balance team). Although we've heard that last quite a time ago and it may have changed since. Especially considering how we don't really know how Anet's internal structure looks now, after the significant changes it underwent around the time of before and after layoffs.

 

> Also, the Scourge change that was reverted was good for PvE support Scourge, it was mainly bad for PvP and WvW because it destroyed the possibility of playing in a support role there. Now that ArebaNet reverted it, they can think to a better solution.

...if anything, it was the exact opposite. The removal of self-shade effect was done for the sake of WvW, while completely ignoring the heavy negative consequences for PvE. The main problem (and one of the main reasons for originally removing it) was always the target cap, which is important _only_ in WvW. Second was area denial effect, important in WvW and SPvP, but (again) completely irrelevant in PvE. At the same time it heavily nerfed the PvE necro support capability (for example). Now, of course, reverting it fixed the problems in PvE, but is going to cause problems in WvW again. Which, as i mentioned before, is a clear example of a situation when mere tweaking numbers is nowhere close enough to get a mechanic properly balanced across all modes.

 

 

[Eos.4269]

Single weapon skills on thief are bad and basically unusable due to losing the stats from a second weapon so i came up with a trait idea to partially fix them

 

**Lone Wolf**

Gain increased stats and single weapon skills deal increased damage and condition damage while single wielding a weapon.

Power: +100

Precision: +100

Ferocity: +100

Condition Damage: +100

Expertise: +100

Damage increase: 5%

Single weapon skills: Stab, Twisting Fangs, Repeater (None of these count for duel skills count for duel wield traits either obviously)

Perhaps stat gains could be a bit lower, but I thought this was a decent stat gain as you'd lose some stats and you'd lose sigil compared to using 2 weapons, but gain some additional stats to compensate.

[Tammuz.7361]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> Looked good till i saw the necro update what dose this class get such a free ride?

 

i think its pretty clear that they dont play their own game...

[Asum.4960]

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > > > > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > > > > > Phase Traversal: This skill now performs a pathing check before activation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Is it christmas already?

> > > > > > /E: Apparently this does not mean that Rev can't teleport through half the map terrain without LOS for an unblockable quickness burst anymore, but rather that the skill won't trigger a CD if it can't somehow find a "path", so big F.

> > > > > >

> > > > > You realize rev isn’t the only class that can go through walls without LOS, right? I hope you’re as zealous about removing teleports through walls for all classes that can do it and not just revenant, since if it’s a “broken mechanic” then it should be removed for all classes. But the truth is it’s not a broken mechanic and it’s really just a L2P awareness issue so shouldn’t be removed

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Not on a 5-10 second cool down (Skill/legend Swap) at 1200 range, followed up by an unblockable quickness burst, immob to disable dodges, and then a skill that glues them onto you with Sword 3, even if you happen to have a way of teleporting out yourself (which they then after a short time waiting for energy/legend swap can just keep sheer endlessly porting after you again anyway).

> > > >

> > > > Especially with 4 Revs in about every Plat game this is just getting way too oppressive, especially on maps like Niflhel where they can bypass the entire map terrain, turning the whole rotational and positioning gameplay into a joke.

> > > >

> > > > It's hardly the same as one Thief going for decaps and +1's with that being about it, or a rare Guard porting once a minute.

> > > > That said, even though Rev is way out of line with being an issue with this, yes, I do think all skills should adhere to the LoS rules in PvP.

> > > > But if you want to compare it to other Professions and keep the LoS bypasses, giving Phase Traversal a ~30 sec CD and removing the Quickness certainly would be a step in right direction.

> > >

> > > You realize thief is far worse about this, right? You're severely understating the amount of ways thief can ignore LoS with ports. Join the club in saying rev utilities are overloaded, we've been trying to get them toned down for years because Anet thinks just increasing energy costs is the solution.

> > >

> > > Back to thief, they have far more port options and can be done more often than rev. Steal, Infiltrators Signet, Sb5, Portal, Shadowstep, and sword 2 all ignore LoS, port when out of range, and have varying levels of benefits like immobilize, CC, boon stealing, etc. In the case of Shortbow and Sword 2, they can be done more often than Phase Traversal, especially in swords case and it can just poof away too. Shortbow can only go up and through floors and not walls, but it doesn't even need a target to do so. If we're fixing LoS on rev, thief needs to be done at the same time. Stop understating the comparisons.

> >

> > My point is simply that Thief is less oppressive while having those ports as that's mainly all they do, port around for decaps and +1's, meanwhile Rev has incredible teamfight potential, burst for roaming, sustain, CC etc.

> >

> > If Thief with it's mobility had things like Infuse Light and the same teamfight potential and CC as well as 1vs1 capabilities as Rev it would obviously be even more broken, but it doesn't.

> >

> > Idc if Anet tones down Rev's mobility, CC, burst, utility or sustain, but at least one of those needs to take a hit to balance out for how strong it is at all the others imo.

> > For all I care they can buff Revs mobility to compete with Thief or smth, but then they need to nuke it's sustain, CC and burst.

>

> So we're going to apply arbitrary conditions for all class ports behaving the same way? At what point are those things sufficiently nerfed to the point it's justified giving rev back its LoS capabilities, or saying that now other classes have to follow the same rules?

>

> All of those things are 100% irrelevant. No matter how strong a class is, they all should follow the same basic combat rules regardless of how strong it is or the class as a whole. There is no justification for rev to be singled out for LoS nerfs on its 2 ports when every other class gets a pass. Either they all should get it or none of them.

 

And I did say all skills should be bound by the same LoS rules, so I'm not sure what your point is.

The only reason Rev was "singled out" is because it's for one probably the worst offender in context of the whole kit and over all powerlevel right now, and secondly because I had a misunderstanding about Phase Traversal's mention in the patch notes, thinking it's LoS component was finally fixed, rather than what it seems to actually mean of just not going on CD when it somehow can't find a path through half the maps terrain, making it an even more potent tool.

 

And again, I don't see 4 Thiefs in 80% of all my matches, because that would be silly. Are their non LoS ports strong? Absolutely, but in context of the rest of their kit, they are at least not way out of line.

Watching 4 Revs port around almost everygame "one shotting" people who correctly kited LoS just for it to be ignored (just to then also be a teamfighting and roaming beast) is getting tiring though.

It's one thing for a Thief to do their very narrow job, another for Rev to do that and then just about everything else as well.

 

So no, I disagree, the context of a professions kit does matter and it's far from arbitrary.

A profession having an out of line powerful mechanic can be fine if it's balanced out by drastic weaknesses in the rest of the kit, while the same mechanic can be incredibly problematic on another profession which is god tier in about every other aspect as well.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > > > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > > > > > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > > > > > > Phase Traversal: This skill now performs a pathing check before activation.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Is it christmas already?

> > > > > > > /E: Apparently this does not mean that Rev can't teleport through half the map terrain without LOS for an unblockable quickness burst anymore, but rather that the skill won't trigger a CD if it can't somehow find a "path", so big F.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > You realize rev isn’t the only class that can go through walls without LOS, right? I hope you’re as zealous about removing teleports through walls for all classes that can do it and not just revenant, since if it’s a “broken mechanic” then it should be removed for all classes. But the truth is it’s not a broken mechanic and it’s really just a L2P awareness issue so shouldn’t be removed

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Not on a 5-10 second cool down (Skill/legend Swap) at 1200 range, followed up by an unblockable quickness burst, immob to disable dodges, and then a skill that glues them onto you with Sword 3, even if you happen to have a way of teleporting out yourself (which they then after a short time waiting for energy/legend swap can just keep sheer endlessly porting after you again anyway).

> > > > >

> > > > > Especially with 4 Revs in about every Plat game this is just getting way too oppressive, especially on maps like Niflhel where they can bypass the entire map terrain, turning the whole rotational and positioning gameplay into a joke.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's hardly the same as one Thief going for decaps and +1's with that being about it, or a rare Guard porting once a minute.

> > > > > That said, even though Rev is way out of line with being an issue with this, yes, I do think all skills should adhere to the LoS rules in PvP.

> > > > > But if you want to compare it to other Professions and keep the LoS bypasses, giving Phase Traversal a ~30 sec CD and removing the Quickness certainly would be a step in right direction.

> > > >

> > > > You realize thief is far worse about this, right? You're severely understating the amount of ways thief can ignore LoS with ports. Join the club in saying rev utilities are overloaded, we've been trying to get them toned down for years because Anet thinks just increasing energy costs is the solution.

> > > >

> > > > Back to thief, they have far more port options and can be done more often than rev. Steal, Infiltrators Signet, Sb5, Portal, Shadowstep, and sword 2 all ignore LoS, port when out of range, and have varying levels of benefits like immobilize, CC, boon stealing, etc. In the case of Shortbow and Sword 2, they can be done more often than Phase Traversal, especially in swords case and it can just poof away too. Shortbow can only go up and through floors and not walls, but it doesn't even need a target to do so. If we're fixing LoS on rev, thief needs to be done at the same time. Stop understating the comparisons.

> > >

> > > My point is simply that Thief is less oppressive while having those ports as that's mainly all they do, port around for decaps and +1's, meanwhile Rev has incredible teamfight potential, burst for roaming, sustain, CC etc.

> > >

> > > If Thief with it's mobility had things like Infuse Light and the same teamfight potential and CC as well as 1vs1 capabilities as Rev it would obviously be even more broken, but it doesn't.

> > >

> > > Idc if Anet tones down Rev's mobility, CC, burst, utility or sustain, but at least one of those needs to take a hit to balance out for how strong it is at all the others imo.

> > > For all I care they can buff Revs mobility to compete with Thief or smth, but then they need to nuke it's sustain, CC and burst.

> >

> > So we're going to apply arbitrary conditions for all class ports behaving the same way? At what point are those things sufficiently nerfed to the point it's justified giving rev back its LoS capabilities, or saying that now other classes have to follow the same rules?

> >

> > All of those things are 100% irrelevant. No matter how strong a class is, they all should follow the same basic combat rules regardless of how strong it is or the class as a whole. There is no justification for rev to be singled out for LoS nerfs on its 2 ports when every other class gets a pass. Either they all should get it or none of them.

>

> And I did say all skills should be bound by the same LoS rules, so I'm not sure what your point is.

> The only reason Rev was "singled out" is because it's for one probably the worst offender in context of the whole kit and over all powerlevel right now, and secondly because I had a misunderstanding about Phase Traversal's mention in the patch notes, thinking it's LoS component was finally fixed, rather than what it seems to actually mean of just not going on CD when it somehow can't find a path through half the maps terrain, making it an even more potent tool.

>

> And again, I don't see 4 Thiefs in 80% of all my matches, because that would be silly. Are their non LoS ports strong? Absolutely, but in context of the rest of their kit, they are at least not way out of line.

> Watching 4 Revs port around almost everygame "one shotting" people who correctly kited LoS just for it to be ignored (just to then also be a teamfighting and roaming beast) is getting tiring though.

> It's one thing for a Thief to do their very narrow job, another for Rev to do that and then just about everything else as well.

>

> So no, I disagree, the context of a professions kit does matter and it's far from arbitrary.

> A profession having an out of line powerful mechanic can be fine if it's balanced out by drastic weaknesses in the rest of the kit, while the same mechanic can be incredibly problematic on another profession which is god tier in about every other aspect as well.

 

Again, power level of the class is entirely irrelevant when it comes to basic combat rules being applied to all classes. This isn't just an out of line powerful mechanic, it's the idea that certain classes can ignore established combat rules because reasons.

 

How many revs vs thiefs you see doing it and what their role should be and how they do it is **100% irrelevant** to these things. Not only does this apply *arbitrary* rules to giving passes on fight mechanics, but they're ripe for favoritism and incompetence by the devs because no standards even can be applied that isn't based on opinion.

What happens if thiefs kit and role becomes god tier and rev becomes weak? At what point are these decisions made? No one knows and it shouldn't be up to opinion in the first place.

 

Your reasoning is also what holds classes like thief back because now they have an 'out of line' mechanic or aspect to them that holds balancing the rest of the class, the weak parts of their kit nobody uses, because then things become way out of hand. The end result is a class that will never branch out to other things because it would make them too powerful overall but nobody is willing to give up something they have that's busted to make the weak parts better.

[cobbah.3102]

Hmmm finding it hard to read all the changes to thief , can we have less sentences to make it clearer.

[Erez FB.4673]

i miss druid in fracs!

something has to be done to give dudu a chance against the current meta :)

heal+might seems to be his only thing for groups, while the fb gets all that + blocks, stab and more...

gotta help dudu <3

[Asum.4960]

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > > > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > > > > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > > > > > > > Phase Traversal: This skill now performs a pathing check before activation.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Is it christmas already?

> > > > > > > > /E: Apparently this does not mean that Rev can't teleport through half the map terrain without LOS for an unblockable quickness burst anymore, but rather that the skill won't trigger a CD if it can't somehow find a "path", so big F.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You realize rev isn’t the only class that can go through walls without LOS, right? I hope you’re as zealous about removing teleports through walls for all classes that can do it and not just revenant, since if it’s a “broken mechanic” then it should be removed for all classes. But the truth is it’s not a broken mechanic and it’s really just a L2P awareness issue so shouldn’t be removed

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Not on a 5-10 second cool down (Skill/legend Swap) at 1200 range, followed up by an unblockable quickness burst, immob to disable dodges, and then a skill that glues them onto you with Sword 3, even if you happen to have a way of teleporting out yourself (which they then after a short time waiting for energy/legend swap can just keep sheer endlessly porting after you again anyway).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Especially with 4 Revs in about every Plat game this is just getting way too oppressive, especially on maps like Niflhel where they can bypass the entire map terrain, turning the whole rotational and positioning gameplay into a joke.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's hardly the same as one Thief going for decaps and +1's with that being about it, or a rare Guard porting once a minute.

> > > > > > That said, even though Rev is way out of line with being an issue with this, yes, I do think all skills should adhere to the LoS rules in PvP.

> > > > > > But if you want to compare it to other Professions and keep the LoS bypasses, giving Phase Traversal a ~30 sec CD and removing the Quickness certainly would be a step in right direction.

> > > > >

> > > > > You realize thief is far worse about this, right? You're severely understating the amount of ways thief can ignore LoS with ports. Join the club in saying rev utilities are overloaded, we've been trying to get them toned down for years because Anet thinks just increasing energy costs is the solution.

> > > > >

> > > > > Back to thief, they have far more port options and can be done more often than rev. Steal, Infiltrators Signet, Sb5, Portal, Shadowstep, and sword 2 all ignore LoS, port when out of range, and have varying levels of benefits like immobilize, CC, boon stealing, etc. In the case of Shortbow and Sword 2, they can be done more often than Phase Traversal, especially in swords case and it can just poof away too. Shortbow can only go up and through floors and not walls, but it doesn't even need a target to do so. If we're fixing LoS on rev, thief needs to be done at the same time. Stop understating the comparisons.

> > > >

> > > > My point is simply that Thief is less oppressive while having those ports as that's mainly all they do, port around for decaps and +1's, meanwhile Rev has incredible teamfight potential, burst for roaming, sustain, CC etc.

> > > >

> > > > If Thief with it's mobility had things like Infuse Light and the same teamfight potential and CC as well as 1vs1 capabilities as Rev it would obviously be even more broken, but it doesn't.

> > > >

> > > > Idc if Anet tones down Rev's mobility, CC, burst, utility or sustain, but at least one of those needs to take a hit to balance out for how strong it is at all the others imo.

> > > > For all I care they can buff Revs mobility to compete with Thief or smth, but then they need to nuke it's sustain, CC and burst.

> > >

> > > So we're going to apply arbitrary conditions for all class ports behaving the same way? At what point are those things sufficiently nerfed to the point it's justified giving rev back its LoS capabilities, or saying that now other classes have to follow the same rules?

> > >

> > > All of those things are 100% irrelevant. No matter how strong a class is, they all should follow the same basic combat rules regardless of how strong it is or the class as a whole. There is no justification for rev to be singled out for LoS nerfs on its 2 ports when every other class gets a pass. Either they all should get it or none of them.

> >

> > And I did say all skills should be bound by the same LoS rules, so I'm not sure what your point is.

> > The only reason Rev was "singled out" is because it's for one probably the worst offender in context of the whole kit and over all powerlevel right now, and secondly because I had a misunderstanding about Phase Traversal's mention in the patch notes, thinking it's LoS component was finally fixed, rather than what it seems to actually mean of just not going on CD when it somehow can't find a path through half the maps terrain, making it an even more potent tool.

> >

> > And again, I don't see 4 Thiefs in 80% of all my matches, because that would be silly. Are their non LoS ports strong? Absolutely, but in context of the rest of their kit, they are at least not way out of line.

> > Watching 4 Revs port around almost everygame "one shotting" people who correctly kited LoS just for it to be ignored (just to then also be a teamfighting and roaming beast) is getting tiring though.

> > It's one thing for a Thief to do their very narrow job, another for Rev to do that and then just about everything else as well.

> >

> > So no, I disagree, the context of a professions kit does matter and it's far from arbitrary.

> > A profession having an out of line powerful mechanic can be fine if it's balanced out by drastic weaknesses in the rest of the kit, while the same mechanic can be incredibly problematic on another profession which is god tier in about every other aspect as well.

>

> Again, power level of the class is entirely irrelevant when it comes to basic combat rules being applied to all classes. This isn't just an out of line powerful mechanic, it's the idea that certain classes can ignore established combat rules because reasons.

>

> How many revs vs thiefs you see doing it and what their role should be and how they do it is **100% irrelevant** to these things. Not only does this apply *arbitrary* rules to giving passes on fight mechanics, but they're ripe for favoritism and incompetence by the devs because no standards even can be applied that isn't based on opinion.

> What happens if thiefs kit and role becomes god tier and rev becomes weak? At what point are these decisions made? No one knows and it shouldn't be up to opinion in the first place.

>

> Your reasoning is also what holds classes like thief back because now they have an 'out of line' mechanic or aspect to them that holds balancing the rest of the class, the weak parts of their kit nobody uses, because then things become way out of hand. The end result is a class that will never branch out to other things because it would make them too powerful overall but nobody is willing to give up something they have that's busted to make the weak parts better.

 

Look, I'm not disagreeing with you. But I also know Anet won't make sweeping changes and redesigns to address those issues.

What they do is minor tweaks, something which could be done to fix Rev, but not Thief, which as you know is basically entirely designed around filling that role single handedly with those tools nothing else has to that extend, while the rest of it's kit suffers for it to balance it out.

 

Saying general mechanical rules should apply to all and power level doesn't matter in regards to it is all fine and well from an idealistic point of view, but in practice that's not the world of balance we live in and never will - and in that world Rev currently, at least imo, is out of line with access to LoS circumvention, while Thief isn't.

That doesn't mean Thief ignoring LoS isn't an issue, it's just a much, much harder one to fix than with Rev, which would still be just fine or even still overperforming with it removed, while Thief would need a complete redesign without it.

 

So clearly addressing it on Rev is more of a priority, with it both being much much easier to fix as well as more pertinent to do so.

That's all.

[Smoosh.2718]

This must have been an oversight from the big 'balance patch' but the trait Juggernaut needs to be looked into.

 

100% stability uptime for a support spec is not healthy for the game. I am seeing more and more of these popping up in PvP making them unstoppable res-bots.

[avey.4201]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> Can we opt out of this balance patch? The game will only get worse with it, not better.

 

I wanna opt out of the 2/25 patch, game is worse in every aspect

[Mokymok.1547]

I can't wait for this patch to release!

Playing a scourge is going to be awesome again!

 

Necromancers definitely needed some buffs to be more in line with the rest of the classes.

[mes.4607]

> @"dronte.3416" said:

> What the hell I just realized Lich Form is untouched. I'm done lol

 

Terrible, terrible patch. This is honest criticism. It's like they took 5 minutes to think of random stuff to touch

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Speed of Synergy: This trait has been reworked. It will now grant superspeed for 5 seconds to allies in a radius of 240 around the engineer when using a healing skill. Using a healing tool-belt skill grants the engineer 7 seconds of superspeed.

 

pls don't :/

after that change 70% of class will dash or run from you with not posibility to catch in pvp/wvw

 

also pls give party quickness to scrappers

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Applied_Force

 

Buff it from 3s->4s (in pvp/wvw it still can be 3s)

Add : Number of Target 5 (so your team get that boon as well)

interval 10s->8s

 

so that sup profesion can be played in fractals/raids more often

[Shiyo.3578]

> @"Noah Salazar.5430" said:

>

Speed of Synergy: This trait has been reworked. It will now grant superspeed for 5 seconds to allies in a radius of 240 around the engineer when using a healing skill. Using a healing tool-belt skill grants the engineer 7 seconds of superspeed.

>

> pls don't :/

> after that change 70% of class will dash or run from you with not posibility to catch in pvp/wvw

>

> also pls give party quickness to scrappers

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Applied_Force

>

> Buff it from 3s->4s (in pvp/wvw it still can be 3s)

> Add : Number of Target 5 (so your team get that boon as well)

> interval 10s->8s

>

> so that sup profesion can be played in fractals/raids more often

 

This game needs LESS superspeed. It's already given out like candy for absolutely no reason, we absolutely do not need more in the game. Do NOT add this to the game.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

@"Shiyo.3578"

This game needs LESS superspeed. It's already given out like candy for absolutely no reason, we absolutely do not need more in the game. Do NOT add this to the game.

 

lower cd on hammer https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rocket_Charge and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jump_Shot by 3-4s than or at last add personal super speed on Flame Blast https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Blast as compensation

[YtseJam.9784]

chrono changes look good, a lot of us complained about the illusion requirement to shatter, and suggested exactly this behavior which is similar to scourge. sucks that it took a year for us to be heard but i'll take the changes! <3 you guys!

[Jables.4659]

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

 

> All of those things are 100% irrelevant. No matter how strong a class is, they all should follow the same basic combat rules regardless of how strong it is or the class as a whole. There is no justification for rev to be singled out for LoS nerfs on its 2 ports when every other class gets a pass. Either they all should get it or none of them.

 

This is funny. You're basically saying that if two classes share a similar mechanic but one of them happens to be brokenly overpowered and the other kind of garbage, there's no reason to nerf that similar mechanic on the op one unless you also nerf it on the garbage one.

 

[Shiyo.3578]

> @"Noah Salazar.5430" said:

>

> @"Shiyo.3578"

> This game needs LESS superspeed. It's already given out like candy for absolutely no reason, we absolutely do not need more in the game. Do NOT add this to the game.

>

>

> lower cd on hammer https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rocket_Charge and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jump_Shot by 3-4s than or at last add personal super speed on Flame Blast https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Blast as compensation

 

No compensation needed, scrapper needs zero superspeed.

[Renny.6571]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> This game needs LESS superspeed. It's already given out like candy for absolutely no reason, we absolutely do not need more in the game. Do NOT add this to the game.

 

Scrapper needs as much personal SS as it can get. Without its just a sitting duck.

[Mil.3562]

> @"Fire Attunement.9835" said:

>

> ... release notes are not complete and in particular thief has more changes that we weren’t able to get localized for this early posting ...

 

Like they say, always reserve the best (or in this case perhaps the worst) for the last. So is thief really going to get it this time? < shivers > I can't wait to see if we get some sweet icing toppings or the biggest nerf bat ANet can find.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

> @"Jables.4659" said:

> > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

>

> > All of those things are 100% irrelevant. No matter how strong a class is, they all should follow the same basic combat rules regardless of how strong it is or the class as a whole. There is no justification for rev to be singled out for LoS nerfs on its 2 ports when every other class gets a pass. Either they all should get it or none of them.

>

> This is funny. You're basically saying that if two classes share a similar mechanic but one of them happens to be brokenly overpowered and the other kind of garbage, there's no reason to nerf that similar mechanic on the op one unless you also nerf it on the garbage one.

>

 

That's exactly what I'm saying because there's no reason for these mechanics being different between classes when the skills in question function the same, but one set is now subject to a different set of rules. Again, what happens if thief becomes OP and rev becomes weak? Do we nerf LoS on thief and give it back to rev? What are these standards and at what point are they met? What about any other class? You can justify buffing weak aspects of a kit like thief if you tone down the ridiculous aspects that hold it back from getting those buffs because it would become OP, the alternative is it never changes.

[Shiyo.3578]

Hi, I main thief and stealth is out of control. Shadow arts tree is too strong and it's too easy to run around perma stealthed in SPvP. I thought the entire point of stealth in GW2 was that it was in-combat and limited? As in you could stealth a few times, but NEVER sit in stealth forever. However, now you can due to all the changes over the years and the buffs to the SA tree making it a good tree for damage(better than deadly arts and crit strikes because...???). Trickery is also more DPS than our DPS trees. At this point, you might as well make stealth only usable out of combat like other MMORPGS since it's basically perma AND you can use it in combat, making it the strongest stealth I've ever seen in a MMORPG.

 

You really needed to nerf stealth uptime on thief, damage on the shadow arts tree, and holosmith in general(especially grenades).

 

"oops my entire teams dead to a grenade barrage" is boring at this point.

[Kosmo.3468]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> You really needed to nerf stealth uptime on thief, damage on the shadow arts tree, and holosmith in general(especially grenades).

Grenades are a core kit of the Engineer. If your entire team is getting outplayed by a ground targeted skill, something smells here and it's not the Engineer class.

 

 

 

[Shiyo.3578]

You're right, it's just coincidence both rank1 NA and EU are both holosmith players.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> You're right, it's just coincidence both rank1 NA and EU are both holosmith players.

Would it sound more balanced and less coinciddental if you replaced holosmith with any other elite in that sentence? How many thieves are in the top 10 compared to holos?