Warrior, the tougher class to play?

[swifti.2590]

Hi guys,

 

This is just a message to say I sympathize with the current state of warriors in pvp. I play all classes in pvp mode, with the warrior is the only class I come away from each game mentally exhausted from the effort, with little rewards to show for it ??. But it's not all bad, no other class gives you the same satisfaction landing decent arcing slice ?

 

But. . . . I can apply half the effort on other classes such as my engi, Necro & ranger and still come out with top damage, caps etc. The difference really is quite stark with less time back at spawn. For such a tanky class I'm just happy we have great mobility in clinch situations.

 

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with changes in class design. We seem to have adopted a dodge, CC & burst strategy. The class feels more like a S/D thief? What ever happened to the juggernaut? Changes to the amulets haven't helped.

 

That being said, there are a few warrior players out there that really make it work well, but I still think if they played a different class e.g Rev, they'd get more bang for their buck and effort.

 

Those that still play this class, I take my hat off to you because you must really love it.

 

I think having a decent condi weapon would help in some build diversity, or maybe tying in the condition on cc mechanic/traits.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"swifti.2590" said:

> Hi guys,

>

> This is just a message to say I sympathize with the current state of warriors in pvp. I play all classes in pvp mode, with the warrior is the only class I come away from each game mentally exhausted from the effort, with little rewards to show for it ??. But it's not all bad, no other class gives you the same satisfaction landing decent arcing slice ?

>

> But. . . . I can apply half the effort on other classes such as my engi, Necro & ranger and still come out with top damage, caps etc. The difference really is quite stark with less time back at spawn. For such a tanky class I'm just happy we have great mobility in clinch situations.

>

> I'm wondering if it has anything to do with changes in class design. We seem to have adopted a dodge, CC & burst strategy. The class feels more like a S/D thief? What ever happened to the juggernaut? Changes to the amulets haven't helped.

The player base cannot handle a properly tuned warrior.

> That being said, there are a few warrior players out there that really make it work well, but I still think if they played a different class e.g Rev, they'd get more bang for their buck and effort.

Because the great balance nerf was not at all even in its application.

> Those that still play this class, I take my hat off to you because you must really love it.

:heart:

> I think having a decent condi weapon would help in some build diversity, or maybe tying in the condition on cc mechanic/traits.

>

People have made recommendations for sword and longbow, but they are and always have been hybrid weapons, and Anet loves their 'themes.' To be honest ANY buff to warrior will start to push it to the point were the majority of players can't play against it.

 

Places that can be buffed without doing that include:

Upping Rifle power damage on AA, Rifle 2, and Rifle 4.

Replacing 100 Blades with a mobile version.

Replacing Flurry with a mobile version.

Replacing Kill Shot with a mobile version.

Replacing the dead traits:

Brave Stride, Great Fortitude, Opportunist, Burst Precision, Dual Wielding, Defy Pain, Last Stand, Power Attack, and Vengeful Return.

 

Things that would possibly tip the scales too far, but are needed, they just need to be done right:

Making sword/sword more condi focused. This includes adding 6 stacks of bleed to Final Thrust by default, and doubling it on foes below 50%. Changing Riposte to an interrupt that applies 6 bleed stacks. Make Rip not end Impale. Adding in a trait within Arms that lets warrior apply Torment in some fashion with swords, but require OH sword for this in order to differentiate a Condi Build and the Zerker Condi build.

 

Making Longbow more condi focused. This includes making Fan of Fire have a tighter spread on the cone such that at make range more than one arrow will hit, while adding a fourth arrow to it. Making burn on AA default. Move Pin Down to slot 3, reduce the CD on Pin Down to 15s. Make a new Longbow 5, bring in the skill Rain of Fire which was apparently a warrior longbow skill at some point in development, which seems to have been a burn based Barrage.

 

Returning SOME damage to hard CCs.

Warrior relied heavily on CCs in damage rotations, and is part of why this nerf was too much for the class. This could be achieved by increasing the bleed stacks on Body Blow from 1 to 4. It could also be achieved by adding back in the confusion we used to have, although I recommend the stacks be applied when you hit a CCd foe, Unsuspecting Foe and Merciless Hammer are both good traits to tack that into. It could also be achieved by a Pulmonary Impact type trait. This could also be achieved by adding in a global +20% damage versus CCd foes into a traitline somewhere (by that I mean beyond what Merciless Hammer already does, but weapon independent).

 

 

 

 

[YuiRS.8129]

Just because Warrior is bad doesn't mean it's hard to play. No aim, no brain, it's a Warrior main! Warrior and Guardian have been standing together as the smooth-brain brethren of GW2 since time immemorial.

[Rekt.5360]

> @"YuiRS.8129" said:

> Just because Warrior is bad doesn't mean it's hard to play. No aim, no brain, it's a Warrior main! Warrior and Guardian have been standing together as the smooth-brain brethren of GW2 since time immemorial.

 

Imagine writing something unironically like this when classes like necro and ranger exist. A class being bad means you have to significantly outplay your opponents to win, so yes, it is "harder" to play against competent foes than other classes.

[Lighter.5631]

> @"YuiRS.8129" said:

> Just because Warrior is bad doesn't mean it's hard to play. No aim, no brain, it's a Warrior main! Warrior and Guardian have been standing together as the smooth-brain brethren of GW2 since time immemorial.

 

yes, to noobs, warrior has the least option which means, warrior needs to react to enemy skills, instead of simply going through rotations after rotations.

in high end, warrior requires the most enemy skill knowledge to compete as to how limited it is as a class

[Tycura.1982]

This one always gets me. People think warrior is easy because it kills noobs. Now try to kill someone good with warrior and it's a whole different game. That enemy elementalist has a whole swiss army knife at his disposal and you've got a hammer.

 

Your competitive builds are melee, slow, telegraphed, and have no teleports and the only way you can beat other classes is by adapting your very limited skill set to best counter their very broad skill sets. But yeah no y war so dum.

 

If you think war takes no effort come duel me on it War vs War.

[swifti.2590]

> @"Tycura.1982" said:

> This one always gets me. People think warrior is easy because it kills noobs. Now try to kill someone good with warrior and it's a whole different game. That enemy elementalist has a whole swiss army knife at his disposal and you've got a hammer.

>

That's quite possibly the best analogy I've ever heard ?

 

[ButterPeanut.9746]

> @"Tycura.1982" said:

> This one always gets me. People think warrior is easy because it kills noobs. Now try to kill someone good with warrior and it's a whole different game. That enemy elementalist has a whole swiss army knife at his disposal and you've got a hammer.

>

> Your competitive builds are melee, slow, telegraphed, and have no teleports and the only way you can beat other classes is by adapting your very limited skill set to best counter their very broad skill sets. But yeah no y war so dum.

>

> If you think war takes no effort come duel me on it War vs War.

 

Big thumbs up. I've been making these same offers but folks don't seem too excited to prove their war vs war competence. :)

[Lighter.5631]

> @"ButterPeanut.9746" said:

> > @"Tycura.1982" said:

> > This one always gets me. People think warrior is easy because it kills noobs. Now try to kill someone good with warrior and it's a whole different game. That enemy elementalist has a whole swiss army knife at his disposal and you've got a hammer.

> >

> > Your competitive builds are melee, slow, telegraphed, and have no teleports and the only way you can beat other classes is by adapting your very limited skill set to best counter their very broad skill sets. But yeah no y war so dum.

> >

> > If you think war takes no effort come duel me on it War vs War.

>

> Big thumbs up. I've been making these same offers but folks don't seem too excited to prove their war vs war competence. :)

 

point better proven 1v1 them with other classes, i 1v1ed a dude's warrior with 7 classes 9 builds and he is silence after that.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Rekt.5360" said:

> > @"YuiRS.8129" said:

> > Just because Warrior is bad doesn't mean it's hard to play. No aim, no brain, it's a Warrior main! Warrior and Guardian have been standing together as the smooth-brain brethren of GW2 since time immemorial.

>

> Imagine writing something unironically like this when classes like necro and ranger exist. A class being bad means you have to significantly outplay your opponents to win, so yes, it is "harder" to play against competent foes than other classes.

 

Class being undertuned doesn't magically make it "hard to play". Unless you think warrior is exactly at the place it should be power-wise?

 

I'm still waiting for -at the very least- fix/rework of the dead traits that according to some people are just placeholders (5 minutes cd, yay) until that happens. It's pretty disappointing that one of the main feature in class building takes so long to address. I'm glad they try to give a nudge to some skills/traits here and there, I think that's the way to approach some of the balance issues, but at the rate of 2-3 patches per year... oof.

[Lighter.5631]

warrior has always been hard to play in high end, you can't profit from no-port spot because you needs to be melee and you have no teleport, so you are incredibly weak against incoming +1.

and you are limited to finish anyone if they started running away.

and attacks can be avoided by jumping.

even during hambow meta, my d/p thief could 1v1 most hambow i encountered in ranked.

and it is no where near op like d/d cele or anything. and took a lot skills with stalling to bait dodges on hammer(statement from sinderener) because most skilled players will dodge hammer animation easily.

but it is still gutted anyway because noobs can't dodge hammer. so forum is full of QQ.

[Raizel Silverius.6430]

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> but it is still gutted anyway because noobs can't dodge hammer. so forum is full of QQ.

 

Yeah, a lot of them QQ on things that has cast time yet says "Just dodge" when the skill in question is an instant cast from stealth. I really do believe they can see the future and yet cannot see the present with how they react on most topics.

 

I also do see a lot of them complain about how Overpowered warrior is and wants to nerfed them yet defends other classes saying that they are balance. An example would be the 100-0 from stealth issue and their advice of just dodge or use a better earphone and crank up the volume to max to hear the skill being cast.

 

And they are also the same people that says evading a pre-nerf May 2017 Arc Divider (when it was only 1 swing) is impossible cause 0.5 sec response time computation thingy hence we got a 0.75 sec cast time arc divider back then.

 

And back to the topic, yeah. Warrior is a class that is not easy to use on higher competitive sPvP hence why you don't see them too often. For PvE, its a matter of if you can really do the DPS + Mechanics while on Fractals and Raids (And I saw plenty of warriors not performing that good, heck I already saw a lot of warriors having lower dps than an alac ren in fractals)

 

And for the people that keep saying warrior is faceroll, can you teach me? I wanna show those enemies that my 2K non crit Arcing Slice damage is painful on a Spellbreaker build. And how my 8 damage Bullscharge that overshoot by a mile can kill you in 3 seconds flat. Oh and how to catch those teleporting enemies that I can't seem to catch when they are about to be beaten. Or how I can stick to a target considering I'm melee whenever they try to kite the heck out of me?

 

@"Sobx.1758" said:

> Class being undertuned doesn't magically make it "hard to play". Unless you think warrior is exactly at the place it should be power-wise?

And how do you think we ended up here in the first place? Ain't it because a lot of players like to complain a lot on warriors with their telegraphic attacks (not even mentioning the cast time) that can't be dodge yet an instant cast from stealth can be dodge cause just dodge and get gud? Or how our regeneration and heal skill makes us so called "immortals" or so the forum said so? Or how our Endure Pain (WHICH LITERALLY ONLY MAKES 100% POWER DAMAGE REDUCTION) keeps on being complained about because players THINKS it's an INVULNERABILITY that also PREVENTS CONDITION DAMAGE, WHICH IS NOT? Or how most of our 1 ACTION : 1 HIT TELEGRAPHED Skills do more damage cause of high visual numbers? Or how utterly broken berserker e-spec became after it was released to the point its not used normally in sPvP outside of just having fun out of it? Or how our never ending stability prevents us from getting CC'ed? Or how our so called "stun lock" can make any other player fall in combat cause no counter play considering the normal kit by most warrior players uses Shield Bash and Bull Charge and Rampage on a long cooldown? and so on and so forth...

 

Let's face it, the class is undertuned because of the nerf and the complains and the actions Anet did on addressing them. We can put warrior as Hard To Play because of its current state against other classes with the same skill level. And its not magical as what you say it is. Otherwise, you might want to take the offer of having a 1v1 with the fellows above this post.

 

P.S: English is not my first language and I am writing this at 3AM so please forgive my spelling and grammar misses.

P.S.S: I'm actually serious about the teaching portion. Just a guideline or tips would do for me. No need to actually invest time for meeting up ingame since I'm not very active nowadays due to the state of the game.

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Raizel Silverius.6430" sai

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > Class being undertuned doesn't magically make it "hard to play". Unless you think warrior is exactly at the place it should be power-wise?

> And how do you think we ended up here in the first place? Ain't it because a lot of players like to complain a lot on warriors with their telegraphic attacks (not even mentioning the cast time) that can't be dodge yet an instant cast from stealth can be dodge cause just dodge and get gud? Or how our regeneration and heal skill makes us so called "immortals" or so the forum said so? Or how our Endure Pain (WHICH LITERALLY ONLY MAKES 100% POWER DAMAGE REDUCTION) keeps on being complained about because players THINKS it's an INVULNERABILITY that also PREVENTS CONDITION DAMAGE, WHICH IS NOT? Or how most of our 1 ACTION : 1 HIT TELEGRAPHED Skills do more damage cause of high visual numbers? Or how utterly broken berserker e-spec became after it was released to the point its not used normally in sPvP outside of just having fun out of it? Or how our never ending stability prevents us from getting CC'ed? Or how our so called "stun lock" can make any other player fall in combat cause no counter play considering the normal kit by most warrior players uses Shield Bash and Bull Charge and Rampage on a long cooldown? and so on and so forth...

 

I honestly don't see too much relevance between your angry "THEY KEEP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE CLASS" rant and what I've wrote. You probably didn't understand my point.

Also people cried, cry and will keep crying about anything "other classes" can do that "their class" can't, that's not limited to warrior.

 

>Let's face it, the class is undertuned because of the nerf and the complains and the actions Anet did on addressing them. We can put warrior as Hard To Play because of its current state against other classes with the same skill level.

 

See, so you DO think it's undertuned. Don't you think a class being strong and easy to pick up (a.k.a "easy to play") is what lead to a lot of nerfs? I think a class can be easy to play AND inefficient due to being undertuned/overnerfed/call it how you want.

Now if you think the class is in the exact place it should be "balance-wise", then ok, we can argue that it's hard to play.

 

But that's also why I wrote:

 

>I'm still waiting for -at the very least- fix/rework of the dead traits that according to some people are just placeholders (5 minutes cd, yay) until that happens. It's pretty disappointing that one of the main feature in class building takes so long to address. I'm glad they try to give a nudge to some skills/traits here and there, I think that's the way to approach some of the balance issues, but at the rate of 2-3 patches per year... oof.

 

Because how can we pretend the class is "where it's supposed to be" when we still have placeholders in its kit?

[Rekt.5360]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Rekt.5360" said:

> > > @"YuiRS.8129" said:

> > > Just because Warrior is bad doesn't mean it's hard to play. No aim, no brain, it's a Warrior main! Warrior and Guardian have been standing together as the smooth-brain brethren of GW2 since time immemorial.

> >

> > Imagine writing something unironically like this when classes like necro and ranger exist. A class being bad means you have to significantly outplay your opponents to win, so yes, it is "harder" to play against competent foes than other classes.

>

> Class being undertuned doesn't magically make it "hard to play". Unless you think warrior is exactly at the place it should be power-wise?

>

> I'm still waiting for -at the very least- fix/rework of the dead traits that according to some people are just placeholders (5 minutes cd, yay) until that happens. It's pretty disappointing that one of the main feature in class building takes so long to address. I'm glad they try to give a nudge to some skills/traits here and there, I think that's the way to approach some of the balance issues, but at the rate of 2-3 patches per year... oof.

 

I don't think warrior is where it should be balance-wise no. And for me, a class being undertuned does make it harder to play. If you can achieve more on another class with less effort that makes it easier to play in my book. Warrior's simple mechanics directly work against it the higher the skill of the opponents you face; how easy it is for a new player to pick up the class, slap a build and kill other players who don't know what they're doing does not factor in a class's difficulty for me. What does factor is the fact that when playing against one of the stronger builds you actively have to outplay them significantly to win your fights, because they just have a lot more going for them, than you do in your nerfed state.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Rekt.5360" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Rekt.5360" said:

> > > > @"YuiRS.8129" said:

> > > > Just because Warrior is bad doesn't mean it's hard to play. No aim, no brain, it's a Warrior main! Warrior and Guardian have been standing together as the smooth-brain brethren of GW2 since time immemorial.

> > >

> > > Imagine writing something unironically like this when classes like necro and ranger exist. A class being bad means you have to significantly outplay your opponents to win, so yes, it is "harder" to play against competent foes than other classes.

> >

> > Class being undertuned doesn't magically make it "hard to play". Unless you think warrior is exactly at the place it should be power-wise?

> >

> > I'm still waiting for -at the very least- fix/rework of the dead traits that according to some people are just placeholders (5 minutes cd, yay) until that happens. It's pretty disappointing that one of the main feature in class building takes so long to address. I'm glad they try to give a nudge to some skills/traits here and there, I think that's the way to approach some of the balance issues, but at the rate of 2-3 patches per year... oof.

>

> I don't think warrior is where it should be balance-wise no. And for me, a class being undertuned does make it harder to play.

 

Yes, it does make it harder to play. But as you say, you don't think warrior is where it should be balance-wise, which -to me- means the only reason it's currently "hard to play" is not because of its playstyle, but because it got overnerfed. Not sure if it's clear what I'm trying to say here. The playstyle itself is easy enough for the class to be pretty dominant when it has the power it "should" have, which brings out the nerfs, so -if we agree the class isn't where it should be at- at this point it's "hard to play" not because of the class playstyle itself, but simply because too much power was taken away, possibly partially due to its playstyle simplicity.

For the long time warrior was pretty easy to be effective with and I don't see it as something bad, for me that was part of warrior being warrior.

 

>What does factor is the fact that when playing against one of the stronger builds you actively have to outplay them significantly to win your fights, because they just have a lot more going for them, than you do in your nerfed state.

 

Yes, if the class is overnerfed, it obviously makes it harder to play. But I don't think it's at the desired place right now, which is why I'm saying what I'm saying. The only way I could agree it's intentionally hard to play as a class is if we'd conclude that warrior is on its desired power level AT THIS MOMENT, which isn't exactly the case.

[TeqkOneStylez.8047]

Warrior is the realest class in the game. You don't get anything free. You have to actually play the game. You have to commit and put yourself at risk for good dmg, while many other classes can get away with just polluting an area and running away or letting ai do everything for them.

 

There are many terribly designed skills / mechanics on other classes that shouldn't exist and need to be reworked if we are ever gonna get any kind of honest gameplay across the board. This game's biggest problem is it's lack of consistency in balance and themes on top of how they scale in difference between class.

 

An example of bad scaling ( I'll use mobility ):

Thief is the fastest / most mobile class in the game ( highly in part due to shortbow and ports ). Anet has stated that they wanted this to be the case. This is fine until you realize the degree in just how much more faster/mobile they are by comparison. The gap doesn't need to be THAT BIG. I was wvw roaming with a friend yesterday, we both switched and went duo thief because it's literally the difference between free disengage or die outnumbered every time.

 

Now here is the part where I have to tell you that i played core thief, and he played Daredevil, and even that small difference has him leave ME in the dust when travelling( due to the run dodge and added swiftness ).So imagine other classes. I bring this up because I still see people in recent game complain about Warrior '''disengage'' or mobility, when warrior isn't even top 3 right now. But the point is the scaling across the board when they balance an aspect from class to class is so out of wack.

[swifti.2590]

Anyone else having to rely on the stun burst combo just to get off damage? Feels very much like a ballerina, weaving in and out, waiting to apply the burst at the right time. I would like to see some more sustain, more cripples, maybe a faster 2h charge too. A little similar to a warrior from wow, or any other rpg for that matter.

 

 

In sPvP I can run berserkers amulet just fine, but I use demolishers so I can at least stay in close combat for longer. ?

[Raizel Silverius.6430]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> Class being undertuned doesn't magically make it "hard to play". Unless you think warrior is exactly at the place it should be power-wise?

 

To clarify, I am having mix signals on your answers. This post literally you telling us that being undertuned does not magically makes it "hard to play" and yet on the other post you replied with.

 

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> Yes, it does make it harder to play. But as you say, you don't think warrior is where it should be balance-wise, which -to me- means the only reason it's currently "hard to play" is not because of its playstyle, but because it got overnerfed.

 

So, are you telling us it is "hard to play" cause of overnerf / undertuned?. Or is it hard to play cause of the nerfs? Or is it NOT hard to play back when it was not nerfed? Do also take note that the time it was not nerfed to this point, most forum members says warrior is Overpowered. So does that mean the only time a warrior is not hard to play is when they are Overpowered?

 

And about my rant. Yes, it is a rant. Please do forgive me about that part because that rant is how I feel on what started the downward spiral of warrior balancing that resulting in this overnerfed / undertuned state. And some of them are baseless like the how a 0.5 Second cast time of Arc Divider back on the days it was only 1 hit is UN-react-able compared to a instant cast from other classes (and some are from stealth too). Or how 2 stuns is hard to counter play (Shield Bash and Bullcharge) when other class has access to stunbreaks and blinks.

 

Peace!

 

[Raizel Silverius.6430]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> See, so you DO think it's undertuned. Don't you think a class being strong and easy to pick up (a.k.a "easy to play") is what lead to a lot of nerfs? I think a class can be easy to play AND inefficient due to being undertuned/overnerfed/call it how you want.

> Now if you think the class is in the exact place it should be "balance-wise", then ok, we can argue that it's hard to play.

 

I am glad that we do agree on this part that it is undertuned. And warrior is a straight forward class hence it IS easy to play for new players. But that's about it to be honest. But in terms of using said class on high end game modes, does it really look easy? The way I see it, a lot of veteran players are having issue on warriors even though they are straight forward and "easy to play".

 

Take for example casual T4 Fractal groups in PvE settings. How many warriors can you say that do the "average" dps based on the benchmark considering its supposed to be easy? For WvW, why can't all warrior players roam easily against other classes? In sPvP, why do some warrior fall off higher competitive tiers such as Plat tiers when they are actually plat tiers on other classes? If you call it because of underperforming then YES it is true. But doesn't that mean you still need to play harder on a warrior to be on the same level as the other classes?

 

When it was balanced, was it easy to play in said levels? Didn't you also try to play as hard as how the other classes did albeit a bit easier cause your damage output can actually put a dent on their HP?

 

Being "easy to play" because of its "straight forwardness" is not a good indicator of it actually "easy to play". Else, we would have majority warriors the past few seasons on the top 20s in the leader board. And top DPS'ers are warriors with their simple game mechanics cause its "easy to play"

 

As per the notion of it being "easy to play" that leads to it being nerfed. We'll ain't that true across all classes regardless of it being easy or not? The only difference it did to warrior is that those nerf affect us way more due to the straight forwardness of the class. Nerf Stance? that is a direct hit on our sustain. Nerf Damage? there goes our dps capacity since warrior is a 1 kill 1 hit (unless casting) type of class. And majority of the nerfs warrior did get was due to the constant forum post about said skill/trait to be nerfed. Remember the Arc Divider cast time issue that 0.5 sec was un-react-able but an instant cast from stealth is cause you can hear the skill being cast? Yeap.

 

I do agree on this post by @"Rekt.5360"

> What does factor is the fact that when playing against one of the stronger builds you actively have to outplay them significantly to win your fights, because they just have a lot more going for them, than you do in your nerfed state.

This says a lot on how playing warrior feels like in competitive play.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Raizel Silverius.6430" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > See, so you DO think it's undertuned. Don't you think a class being strong and easy to pick up (a.k.a "easy to play") is what lead to a lot of nerfs? I think a class can be easy to play AND inefficient due to being undertuned/overnerfed/call it how you want.

> > Now if you think the class is in the exact place it should be "balance-wise", then ok, we can argue that it's hard to play.

>

> I am glad that we do agree on this part that it is undertuned. And warrior is a straight forward class hence it IS easy to play for new players. But that's about it to be honest. But in terms of using said class on high end game modes, does it really look easy? The way I see it, a lot of veteran players are having issue on warriors even though they are straight forward and "easy to play".

>

> Take for example casual T4 Fractal groups in PvE settings. How many warriors can you say that do the "average" dps based on the benchmark considering its supposed to be easy? For WvW, why can't all warrior players roam easily against other classes? In sPvP, why do some warrior fall off higher competitive tiers such as Plat tiers when they are actually plat tiers on other classes? If you call it because of underperforming then YES it is true. But doesn't that mean you still need to play harder on a warrior to be on the same level as the other classes?

Going to chime in here, MOST players don't pull average dps numbers. I had a Spellbreaker in a Siren's Reef party that couldn't break 7k. But your last statement is spot on. Some classes are truly facerollers, but Warrior is not one of them.

> When it was balanced, was it easy to play in said levels? Didn't you also try to play as hard as how the other classes did albeit a bit easier cause your damage output can actually put a dent on their HP?

>

> Being "easy to play" because of its "straight forwardness" is not a good indicator of it actually "easy to play". Else, we would have majority warriors the past few seasons on the top 20s in the leader board. And top DPS'ers are warriors with their simple game mechanics cause its "easy to play"

>

> As per the notion of it being "easy to play" that leads to it being nerfed. We'll ain't that true across all classes regardless of it being easy or not? The only difference it did to warrior is that those nerf affect us way more due to the straight forwardness of the class. Nerf Stance? that is a direct hit on our sustain. Nerf Damage? there goes our dps capacity since warrior is a 1 kill 1 hit (unless casting) type of class. And majority of the nerfs warrior did get was due to the constant forum post about said skill/trait to be nerfed. Remember the Arc Divider cast time issue that 0.5 sec was un-react-able but an instant cast from stealth is cause you can hear the skill being cast? Yeap.

>

> I do agree on this post by @"Rekt.5360"

> > What does factor is the fact that when playing against one of the stronger builds you actively have to outplay them significantly to win your fights, because they just have a lot more going for them, than you do in your nerfed state.

> This says a lot on how playing warrior feels like in competitive play.

 

Warrior has a strong base chassis, and this is why I think Anet is afraid to properly tune it. IF it were properly tuned, it would be harder to kite, would be a threat to any class while in melee, and would be fairly mobile. As it is this class is very easy to kite, with the Feb power nerfs and CC nerfs it isn't really a threat to anyone as a glass cannon (really stupid, I'm more of a threat now if I roll Sentinel stats :grimace:), and while we have decent mobility its not like it is BiS or even second or third BiS. In fact nothing really about Warrior is BiS, and that is the problem. Anet needs to slightly increase some of the mobility, increase power coefficients by about 20% (more in some cases) across the board on Warrior, and continue to rework dead traits and dead weapons.

 

With this Offhand weapon balance incoming I suspect that they will not see the increase they wanted in their usage and will further tweak the skills, but they also missed an opportunity to buff the associated trait. Granted there may be more in the actual release notes that they did not tease.

[YaminoNakani.7083]

If feel for you warrior mains I really do.

 

Warrior is slow, clunky, and highly telegraphed. Sure it's very tanky and if you manage to catch someone once or twice with a stun you pretty much got them killed. But going through your rotation hoping for the enemy slip up has to be frustrating when you look at your counterpart, the power herald.

 

Yes, I would be frustrated to when I have to put in this much effort to land a kill when the other "warriors" can just teleport through walls and instantly down someone with fast and fluid attacks while sticking to the opponent while having greater speed, sustain, and easier to land CC. Now some may consider the warrior to be balanced and the power herald to be overpowered. And you may be right. Some may ask why not just switch classes? You may be right; that could be the better option. But hey, the warrior mains mastered their class so they could win every 1v1 without contest and you know what, they deserve to win those 1v1s uncontested. So spread the love. Double those damage numbers, give more resistance, make the attacks faster and more mobile and double those stun durations.

 

These people played warrior to not have to think when they fight, so give them what they want!

[HAsAsIN.6724]

usually in wvwvw, they insinuate that warrior/sb players are just doing 11111.

 

like what the III, my warrior can solo charge a zerg in the middle of them, do hundred blades and fall back to the zerg.

 

or if the zerg is following along, the advanced WoD.

 

and yeah, thieves are having higher advantage than warriors because of stealth and almost full health heal with 5 second cooldown.

[MichaelArchangel.7251]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Raizel Silverius.6430" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > See, so you DO think it's undertuned. Don't you think a class being strong and easy to pick up (a.k.a "easy to play") is what lead to a lot of nerfs? I think a class can be easy to play AND inefficient due to being undertuned/overnerfed/call it how you want.

> > > Now if you think the class is in the exact place it should be "balance-wise", then ok, we can argue that it's hard to play.

> >

> > I am glad that we do agree on this part that it is undertuned. And warrior is a straight forward class hence it IS easy to play for new players. But that's about it to be honest. But in terms of using said class on high end game modes, does it really look easy? The way I see it, a lot of veteran players are having issue on warriors even though they are straight forward and "easy to play".

> >

> > Take for example casual T4 Fractal groups in PvE settings. How many warriors can you say that do the "average" dps based on the benchmark considering its supposed to be easy? For WvW, why can't all warrior players roam easily against other classes? In sPvP, why do some warrior fall off higher competitive tiers such as Plat tiers when they are actually plat tiers on other classes? If you call it because of underperforming then YES it is true. But doesn't that mean you still need to play harder on a warrior to be on the same level as the other classes?

> Going to chime in here, MOST players don't pull average dps numbers. I had a Spellbreaker in a Siren's Reef party that couldn't break 7k. But your last statement is spot on. Some classes are truly facerollers, but Warrior is not one of them.

> > When it was balanced, was it easy to play in said levels? Didn't you also try to play as hard as how the other classes did albeit a bit easier cause your damage output can actually put a dent on their HP?

> >

> > Being "easy to play" because of its "straight forwardness" is not a good indicator of it actually "easy to play". Else, we would have majority warriors the past few seasons on the top 20s in the leader board. And top DPS'ers are warriors with their simple game mechanics cause its "easy to play"

> >

> > As per the notion of it being "easy to play" that leads to it being nerfed. We'll ain't that true across all classes regardless of it being easy or not? The only difference it did to warrior is that those nerf affect us way more due to the straight forwardness of the class. Nerf Stance? that is a direct hit on our sustain. Nerf Damage? there goes our dps capacity since warrior is a 1 kill 1 hit (unless casting) type of class. And majority of the nerfs warrior did get was due to the constant forum post about said skill/trait to be nerfed. Remember the Arc Divider cast time issue that 0.5 sec was un-react-able but an instant cast from stealth is cause you can hear the skill being cast? Yeap.

> >

> > I do agree on this post by @"Rekt.5360"

> > > What does factor is the fact that when playing against one of the stronger builds you actively have to outplay them significantly to win your fights, because they just have a lot more going for them, than you do in your nerfed state.

> > This says a lot on how playing warrior feels like in competitive play.

>

> Warrior has a strong base chassis, and this is why I think Anet is afraid to properly tune it. IF it were properly tuned, it would be harder to kite, would be a threat to any class while in melee, and would be fairly mobile. As it is this class is very easy to kite, with the Feb power nerfs and CC nerfs it isn't really a threat to anyone as a glass cannon (really stupid, I'm more of a threat now if I roll Sentinel stats :grimace:), and while we have decent mobility its not like it is BiS or even second or third BiS. In fact nothing really about Warrior is BiS, and that is the problem. Anet needs to slightly increase some of the mobility, increase power coefficients by about 20% (more in some cases) across the board on Warrior, and continue to rework dead traits and dead weapons.

>

> With this Offhand weapon balance incoming I suspect that they will not see the increase they wanted in their usage and will further tweak the skills, but they also missed an opportunity to buff the associated trait. Granted there may be more in the actual release notes that they did not tease.

 

Agree with much of what you said. Especially the earlier post. Being rooted with Hundred Blades and Sword F1 makes those painful. 100 Blades doesn't even hit hard (unless might stacked, plus bloodlust and running quickness).

 

The class is horribly easy to kite. Our CC's got killed by draining the damage out of them. Too many skills have long telegraphs compared to other professions' abilities, and then hit like wiffle bats. Don't get me wrong... there's a lot for warrior to like. The execution of those things by Anet is poor though.

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"Tycura.1982" said:

> This one always gets me. People think warrior is easy because it kills noobs. Now try to kill someone good with warrior and it's a whole different game. That enemy elementalist has a whole swiss army knife at his disposal and you've got a hammer.

>

> Your competitive builds are melee, slow, telegraphed, and have no teleports and the only way you can beat other classes is by adapting your very limited skill set to best counter their very broad skill sets. But yeah no y war so dum.

>

> If you think war takes no effort come duel me on it War vs War.

 

Warrior is still the easiest class to play with really to low effort to be good at.

If you come wvw it is still among the best roamers and dueling spec at duel spot.

 

I did a duel with a guy yesterday, perma 25 might all fight and after 3 seconds of fight he already had them, same when rev and holo had easy might access.

 

Dodge rolled up to 10 times in not even 30 seconds fight. Endure pain still the best stunbreak panic button.

 

Yeah CC doesn't not make big damage anymore (luckily), you were happy of pressing bull's charge for 8k damage and 10k arcing slice right? 2 buttons is really hard gameplay to master yeah.

 

In sPvP you can say anything you want, it's underpowered.

But if you struggle in wvw with warrior you are just trash and should unistall.

 

Btw try the new meta strenght discipline tactics with the immobilize on axe throw and then let me know.

[Tycura.1982]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > @"Tycura.1982" said:

> > This one always gets me. People think warrior is easy because it kills noobs. Now try to kill someone good with warrior and it's a whole different game. That enemy elementalist has a whole swiss army knife at his disposal and you've got a hammer.

> >

> > Your competitive builds are melee, slow, telegraphed, and have no teleports and the only way you can beat other classes is by adapting your very limited skill set to best counter their very broad skill sets. But yeah no y war so dum.

> >

> > If you think war takes no effort come duel me on it War vs War.

>

> Warrior is still the easiest class to play with really to low effort to be good at.

> If you come wvw it is still among the best roamers and dueling spec at duel spot.

>

> I did a duel with a guy yesterday, perma 25 might all fight and after 3 seconds of fight he already had them, same when rev and holo had easy might access.

>

> Dodge rolled up to 10 times in not even 30 seconds fight. Endure pain still the best stunbreak panic button.

>

> Yeah CC doesn't not make big damage anymore (luckily), you were happy of pressing bull's charge for 8k damage and 10k arcing slice right? 2 buttons is really hard gameplay to master yeah.

>

> In sPvP you can say anything you want, it's underpowered.

> But if you struggle in wvw with warrior you are just trash and should unistall.

>

> Btw try the new meta strenght discipline tactics with the immobilize on axe throw and then let me know.

 

I only play(ed) spvp mate. There's a lot more to war there than wvw. If you're NA I'll still duel you if you want.