Upcoming Balance Patch Notes [7/2/20]

[saerni.2584]

So we get a condi buff by boosting Thousand Needles and a "nerf" to Repeater spam (which you shouldn't have been spamming anyways).

 

Anyone else got thoughts other than /ok and /shrug?

 

Guess we have to wait for them to post the rest of the changes...

[Arcaniaxs.4519]

If they want to buff the condi based builds for pve they should look at deadly arts traitline

Buff the power of applying poison for pve only

[Mor The Thief.9135]

I'm still waiting for a PvE buff to Sword...

[BobbyT.7192]

Wasn't expecting much really. I doubt the buffed skill will effect anything.

Also not surprised that thieves get a small patch either, I should be, just no energy for it anymore.

[Taril.8619]

I can't wait to see which skill(s) they're increasing the init cost of this time!

 

/s

[Bovan.9481]

> @"BobbyT.7192" said:

> Wasn't expecting much really. I doubt the buffed skill will effect anything.

> Also not surprised that thieves get a small patch either, I should be, just no energy for it anymore.

 

They couldn't fit in the full notes for everything immediately. Thief in particular is said to get a lot more then we see in the notes.

 

I'm personally hopefull that condi Thief will be something worth considering for PvE now. In the same veins it would be nice if condi Thief in PvP could simply be a functional build instead of the abomination it seems to be every so often. Fingers crossed for the previous Assassin's Signet ''fix'' to be baked in baseline as well.

[UNOwen.7132]

Its not the full notes. Expect more nerfs in PvP that dont end up changing anything because as long as thief has shortbow 5, the class will be good. I wish we would get PvE buffs because thief is doing poorly there, but I wouldnt count on it.

[Mor The Thief.9135]

Since Anet started splitting skills, how hard can it be to buff underperforming weapons in PvE? All they need to do is just tweak numbers to be higher in PvE...

[saerni.2584]

It's weird, because the complaints about condi thief in pvp disappeared overnight after the last balance patch, which reduced the stacks of Spider Venom from the utility skill.

 

I'm not sure what Anet thinks is still "egregious" at this point, unless it has to do with Deadly Ambition procing too often? That by itself isn't a lot of changes so it makes me wonder what the rest of the patch notes are if they couldn't manage to localize their list of changes for their "early preview" post.

 

They could, for example, completely change Spider Venom with a rework of the venom utilities. That would be a "big" change that would eliminate issues of spiking poison off the sharing to summons from Thieves Guild (still not a small amount if played well). They could also rework those in a way that would boost condi thief in pve but not as much in PvP (since spike condi is often a more useful thing in pvp).

 

But I'm completely in the dark so...who knows...lol.

[Blind.4162]

...Quick comment, these release notes are not complete and in particular thief has more changes that we weren’t able to get localized for this early posting...

After a quick google translate

...Quick comment, these release notes are not complete and in particular thief has more changes that we weren’t able to get localized for this early posting so grab dem ass cheeks and stock up on the KY...

[Tails.9372]

It's a balance patch so there is really only one thing to hope for: for your favorite build to not become collateral damage to whatever random thing they're trying to address this time.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

> @"Mor The Thief.9135" said:

> I'm still waiting for a PvE buff to Sword...

 

I'm still waiting for a buff to sword, period.

[AikijinX.6258]

I hadn’t been around much since I had been gone, but I do hope that sword and staff are looked at, especially how much initiative cost it takes for weapon skills.

 

I also hope they take a look at initiative management in general. I noticed so many increases in initiative cost for weapon skills. Some that don’t even make sense. So let’s hope initiative management costs are on the table to be looked at and not just specific builds that either collaterally help builds or destroy them.

 

Wishlist: A trait either minor or maybe even the first major trait to replace thrill of crime, haste, or caltrops- that helps regenerate initiative faster 40%- 50% faster. ?

[Shiyo.3578]

Why the refusal to buff sword in PvE? You could double it's auto chain, stealth attack, and dual skills damage and it'd still be subpar but at least usable.

[Dave.6819]

After reading mesmer patch notes (my 2nd main class) i was so excited. Then i was so curious to see what Thief (my main class) has in store... nothing? 2 changes that don't make any difference whatsoever? I guess Thief balance devs are still in quarantine and their laptops at home exploded so they didn't really bother to change anythin. Weak... that's weak indeed anet. At this point please buff us up a little in PvE atleast. Even raiding people don't want us anymore. We can give up on wvw/pvp but straighten us out in end game pve content. Like atleast give us back bounding dodger 15% ? Or swipe 1200 range for pvpers? No? Ok.

[Bovan.9481]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> Why the refusal to buff sword in PvE? You could double it's auto chain, stealth attack, and dual skills damage and it'd still be subpar but at least usable.

 

Tested this in the training facility just now. If you double the damage on sword's auto-attacks it will deal something like 42k DPS while just auto-attacking. Surely this isn't something we want to do. God forbid actually doing a rotation with it, you will end up with numbers along the lines of 50k+ DPS.

 

Sword is fine. The utility crammed into the weapon is good enough to make it not be one of our strongest DPS weapons. It's really not as weak as you make it out to be.

[Shiyo.3578]

I highly doubt sword is 21k DPS autoing, or it'd be suggested over staff.

[Bovan.9481]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> I highly doubt sword is 21k DPS autoing, **or it'd be suggested over staff**.

 

...what? That has absolutely nothing to do with it. You have more buttons to press instead of just starting your auto-attacks and then going afk. Weakening Charge in particular is what makes staff such a good weapon, not the autos. I actually checked this earlier in-game but I forgot the results. But I'm fairly sure sword was stronger by just auto-attacking compared to staff.

 

On that note, normal benchmark buffs sword auto-attacking. Enjoy~

 

 

You could have just logged in and tried this yourself.

 

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> I highly doubt sword is 21k DPS autoing, or it'd be suggested over staff.

 

...what? :D

[Shiyo.3578]

Cool, thanks for taking the time to prove me wrong. Nice to know swords not THAT bad.

 

I said suggested over staff because people bring up using staff and only autoing for new players or players who want an easy build.

 

Now if they could make pistol whip, lac strike and tactical strike being worth using over autoing so sword could do 33-35k dps.

 

...They are a dps loss over autoing, right?

[Bovan.9481]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> Cool, thanks for taking the time to prove me wrong. Nice to know swords not THAT bad.

>

> I said suggested over staff because people bring up using staff and only autoing for new players or players who want an easy build.

>

> Now if they could make pistol whip, lac strike and tactical strike being worth using over autoing so sword could do 33-35k dps.

>

> ...They are a dps loss over autoing, right?

 

Fingers crossed we get a new elite spec with a strong sword/X dual skill. That's my hope and dream anyway, I want to use sword as well.

 

I don't know about Flanking and Larcenous Strike but spamming Pistol Whip perfectly in between auto-chains was definitely a DPS loss. From memory around 1.5k less? Maybe as Daredevil it's worth doing a rotation based on dodging and using Pistol Whip in certain windows or moments, but I didn't really look into that.

 

I never finished the benchmark but I think a ''proper'' Daredevil rotation with sword mainhand was around 28.5k DPS. I used some Pistol Whips to test it out so I'm not sure what numbers it produces if you do it right. I'm not against bringing sword up just a little bit. It would be nice to do 32k orso.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"AikijinX.6258" said:

> I hadn’t been around much since I had been gone, but I do hope that sword and staff are looked at, especially how much initiative cost it takes for weapon skills.

>

> I also hope they take a look at initiative management in general. I noticed so many increases in initiative cost for weapon skills. Some that don’t even make sense. So let’s hope initiative management costs are on the table to be looked at and not just specific builds that either collaterally help builds or destroy them.

>

> Wishlist: A trait either minor or maybe even the first major trait to replace thrill of crime, haste, or caltrops- that helps regenerate initiative faster 40%- 50% faster. ?

 

If they reworked haste into 50% more ini regen while under the effects of quickness, I'd be down for that.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> It's weird, because the complaints about condi thief in pvp disappeared overnight after the last balance patch, which reduced the stacks of Spider Venom from the utility skill.

>

> I'm not sure what Anet thinks is still "egregious" at this point, unless it has to do with Deadly Ambition procing too often? That by itself isn't a lot of changes so it makes me wonder what the rest of the patch notes are if they couldn't manage to localize their list of changes for their "early preview" post.

>

> They could, for example, completely change Spider Venom with a rework of the venom utilities. That would be a "big" change that would eliminate issues of spiking poison off the sharing to summons from Thieves Guild (still not a small amount if played well). They could also rework those in a way that would boost condi thief in pve but not as much in PvP (since spike condi is often a more useful thing in pvp).

>

> But I'm completely in the dark so...who knows...lol.

 

Did they ever change it so that Deadly Ambition proc'ed on repeater (asking you as I know you will know this)? The last I checked it was only on shadow strike, so in terms of poison application this would be a buff.

 

Repeater on a mostly trailblazer DE build can keep 15-20 stacks of bleed up on top of the longer lasting torments and poisons, I can kinda see where they are going with this honestly.

[saerni.2584]

> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > @"saerni.2584" said:

> > It's weird, because the complaints about condi thief in pvp disappeared overnight after the last balance patch, which reduced the stacks of Spider Venom from the utility skill.

> >

> > I'm not sure what Anet thinks is still "egregious" at this point, unless it has to do with Deadly Ambition procing too often? That by itself isn't a lot of changes so it makes me wonder what the rest of the patch notes are if they couldn't manage to localize their list of changes for their "early preview" post.

> >

> > They could, for example, completely change Spider Venom with a rework of the venom utilities. That would be a "big" change that would eliminate issues of spiking poison off the sharing to summons from Thieves Guild (still not a small amount if played well). They could also rework those in a way that would boost condi thief in pve but not as much in PvP (since spike condi is often a more useful thing in pvp).

> >

> > But I'm completely in the dark so...who knows...lol.

>

> Did they ever change it so that Deadly Ambition proc'ed on repeater (asking you as I know you will know this)? The last I checked it was only on shadow strike, so in terms of poison application this would be a buff.

>

> Repeater on a mostly trailblazer DE build can keep 15-20 stacks of bleed up on top of the longer lasting torments and poisons, I can kinda see where they are going with this honestly.

 

Yes they changed it. It was undocumented though so it wasn’t really advertised.

 

If I had to guess, the upcoming changes would have to relate to Deadly Ambition duration to cut the max stacks you can build up.

 

That said, I don’t run DA so I’m not overly concerned.

 

Edit: Reducing the duration of Repeater access is, to me, a buff regardless of the reduction in total Repeaters meaning less Deadly Ambition procs. The tension between Shadowstrike and Repeater is that one is a very defensive skill (defensive teleport skill that punishes melee range opponents) and the other is a slow pure offensive skill. It’s not so good in combat to get locked out of a defensive skill especially because this is “the” unique skill in the weapon kit. What Repeater offers is “more damage” by adding some higher than autoattack damage (autos also do bleed after all) and some decent synergy with Deadly Ambition if you take that trait.

 

At a certain point though, if you are locked out of Shadowstrike at a critical moment, you end up getting basically punished for successfully landing your first Shadowstrike. It’s a fine line. Obviously, more time to hit Repeater gives you the ability to get Deadly Ambition procs from range. That’s a lot of damage as a trade off for losing access to a defensive skill. But, if you don’t take Deadly Ambition, it functions less significantly as a boost to damage so the trade off isn’t worth it as much.

 

Back when they made it 4 seconds I myself advocated for a 3 second duration. Others, like @"babazhook.6805", disagreed because it was an opportunity to chain additional Repeaters and he preferred that damage versus the Shadowstrike skill (which is a short range melee strike versus a channeled ranged attack). We will have to see if 3 seconds works better (and what the other changes will be).

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > > @"saerni.2584" said:

> > > It's weird, because the complaints about condi thief in pvp disappeared overnight after the last balance patch, which reduced the stacks of Spider Venom from the utility skill.

> > >

> > > I'm not sure what Anet thinks is still "egregious" at this point, unless it has to do with Deadly Ambition procing too often? That by itself isn't a lot of changes so it makes me wonder what the rest of the patch notes are if they couldn't manage to localize their list of changes for their "early preview" post.

> > >

> > > They could, for example, completely change Spider Venom with a rework of the venom utilities. That would be a "big" change that would eliminate issues of spiking poison off the sharing to summons from Thieves Guild (still not a small amount if played well). They could also rework those in a way that would boost condi thief in pve but not as much in PvP (since spike condi is often a more useful thing in pvp).

> > >

> > > But I'm completely in the dark so...who knows...lol.

> >

> > Did they ever change it so that Deadly Ambition proc'ed on repeater (asking you as I know you will know this)? The last I checked it was only on shadow strike, so in terms of poison application this would be a buff.

> >

> > Repeater on a mostly trailblazer DE build can keep 15-20 stacks of bleed up on top of the longer lasting torments and poisons, I can kinda see where they are going with this honestly.

>

> Yes they changed it. It was undocumented though so it wasn’t really advertised.

>

> If I had to guess, the upcoming changes would have to relate to Deadly Ambition duration to cut the max stacks you can build up.

>

> That said, I don’t run DA so I’m not overly concerned.

>

> Edit: Reducing the duration of Repeater access is, to me, a buff regardless of the reduction in total Repeaters meaning less Deadly Ambition procs. The tension between Shadowstrike and Repeater is that one is a very defensive skill (defensive teleport skill that punishes melee range opponents) and the other is a slow pure offensive skill. It’s not so good in combat to get locked out of a defensive skill especially because this is “the” unique skill in the weapon kit. What Repeater offers is “more damage” by adding some higher than autoattack damage (autos also do bleed after all) and some decent synergy with Deadly Ambition if you take that trait.

>

> At a certain point though, if you are locked out of Shadowstrike at a critical moment, you end up getting basically punished for successfully landing your first Shadowstrike. It’s a fine line. Obviously, more time to hit Repeater gives you the ability to get Deadly Ambition procs from range. That’s a lot of damage as a trade off for losing access to a defensive skill. But, if you don’t take Deadly Ambition, it functions less significantly as a boost to damage so the trade off isn’t worth it as much.

>

> Back when they made it 4 seconds I myself advocated for a 3 second duration. Others, like @"babazhook.6805", disagreed because it was an opportunity to chain additional Repeaters and he preferred that damage versus the Shadowstrike skill (which is a short range melee strike versus a channeled ranged attack). We will have to see if 3 seconds works better (and what the other changes will be).

 

That makes sense, thanks for the reply ^^

 

I do remember questioning the 4s repeater rollover when it was introduced, as it also limited your access to torment which is what I build my DE around. Honestly it will probably work out about the same for me damage wise, less bleeds and poison but more long lasting torment and mobility from ports.