Lighter.5631 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 OK guys, changing traits slightly, won't change the current state of warrior at all, unless over buffed which will leads to fast nerf. like how they added damage and vulnerability and might to off hand sword and off hand mace since 2012 and it is still trash 2020 warrior needs more options in combat, better skill functions that will allow warrior to kit more or positioning better thus resulting in better damage/sustain without the need to buff numbers. which is what im proposing here. a rage skill utility flip basically rage skill will flip effect whenever goes berserk. blood reckoning - on top of current effects (normal state) Reduces berserk cooldown by 3 seconds. (berserk state) increases berserk duration by 5 seconds note: so it can not only be used to increases berserk duration but you also have the option to use it to manage your berserk cooldown for better management sundering leap - on top of current effects (normal state) - same (berserk state) - becomes 600 range phase traversal-ish skill, reduces cooldown by 5 second if hit target. note: better positioning option for better sustain/finish outrage - i think it only having effect on berserk mode is really bad (normal state) reduces berserk cooldown by 1 second, if break stun, reduces berserk cooldown by 3 seconds. (berserk state) same shattering blow - i think it's one of the more useful skill of berserker (normal state) same (berserk state) leaves aoe damage pulsing field on the ground that also pulse condition wild blow - delete this, make a new skill headbutt - same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taril.8619 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Honestly, a better design would be to remove Berserker's reliance on Rage skills. Enabling them to use utility skills for utility, not because their class mechanic literally is a pile of garbage without them. Make Burst skills prolong Berserk Mode. Adjust Rage skills so they don't affect Berserk duration. Thus enabling Berseker to be able to use a selection of utilities based on their needs. For example taking Mending/Shake it Off for Condi removal. Bulls Charge for mobility/evade/CC. Signet of Stamina for more dodges etc. As opposed to being stuck with Blood Reckoning/Outrage/Headbutt irregardless of how useful their actual effects are, just so they can maintain Berserker Mode long enough to maybe kill something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighter.5631 Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 > @"Taril.8619" said: > Honestly, a better design would be to remove Berserker's reliance on Rage skills. Enabling them to use utility skills for utility, not because their class mechanic literally is a pile of garbage without them. > > Make Burst skills prolong Berserk Mode. Adjust Rage skills so they don't affect Berserk duration. > > Thus enabling Berseker to be able to use a selection of utilities based on their needs. For example taking Mending/Shake it Off for Condi removal. Bulls Charge for mobility/evade/CC. Signet of Stamina for more dodges etc. > > As opposed to being stuck with Blood Reckoning/Outrage/Headbutt irregardless of how useful their actual effects are, just so they can maintain Berserker Mode long enough to maybe kill something. at this point its impossible to remove berserker's reliance for rage skills. since core warrior definitely doesnt have the same effectiveness of a berserker, berserker needs way better skills then core warrior to perform as much in PvP. and rage skill is a good way to buff berserker without buffing all warrior. Ofc buffing rage skill doesnt mean berserker will take full rage skill, i'm sure shake it off or even stances will still be top picks for berserker, that's just how pvp is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taril.8619 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > Honestly, a better design would be to remove Berserker's reliance on Rage skills. Enabling them to use utility skills for utility, not because their class mechanic literally is a pile of garbage without them. > > > > Make Burst skills prolong Berserk Mode. Adjust Rage skills so they don't affect Berserk duration. > > > > Thus enabling Berseker to be able to use a selection of utilities based on their needs. For example taking Mending/Shake it Off for Condi removal. Bulls Charge for mobility/evade/CC. Signet of Stamina for more dodges etc. > > > > As opposed to being stuck with Blood Reckoning/Outrage/Headbutt irregardless of how useful their actual effects are, just so they can maintain Berserker Mode long enough to maybe kill something. > > at this point its impossible to remove berserker's reliance for rage skills. It is entirely possible. You simply make Berserker Mode not require the duration extentions from Rage skills. > @"Lighter.5631" said: > since core warrior definitely doesnt have the same effectiveness of a berserker, berserker needs way better skills then core warrior to perform as much in PvP. > and rage skill is a good way to buff berserker without buffing all warrior. I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. > @"Lighter.5631" said: > Ofc buffing rage skill doesnt mean berserker will take full rage skill, i'm sure shake it off or even stances will still be top picks for berserker, that's just how pvp is. Rage skills are heavily used by what Berserkers in all game modes. Since, without them, Berserker mode doesn't last very long, which means the entire E-Spec ceases to function and you're left with worse-than-Core Warrior because it has no class mechanic and only 2 specs due to how Berserker is entirely reliant on being in Berserker Mode for all its traits to function. This is without buffing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighter.5631 Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 > @"Taril.8619" said: > I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. > i'm not sure you understand, the goal is to buff berserker without touching warrior and giving it's own identity, that's generally a better approach to balancing elite spec. > > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > Ofc buffing rage skill doesnt mean berserker will take full rage skill, i'm sure shake it off or even stances will still be top picks for berserker, that's just how pvp is. > > Rage skills are heavily used by what Berserkers in all game modes. Since, without them, Berserker mode doesn't last very long, which means the entire E-Spec ceases to function and you're left with worse-than-Core Warrior because it has no class mechanic and only 2 specs due to how Berserker is entirely reliant on being in Berserker Mode for all its traits to function. > > This is without buffing them. you are asking too much of impossible. or are you just simply asking for a better warrior. you are basically asking for a berserk that last forever without investment, which also won't solve it's problem in pvp. maybe core war is for you if you want to constantly using burst skill without down time and the need to invest slightess. or maybe you are misunderstanding pvp to pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 U guys show so much passion for this game and class, unfortunately on these threads these ideas will remain unseen. Look at the place holder traits that still sit in traitlines after how long? The chances of war getting any rework before games life cycle ends is very small, great efforts tho. Sometimes I feel like anet doesnt deserve players like u and lan deathrider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1) I am 100% down will flipping the rage skills to do other things in and out of Berserk Mode. 2) I agree with @"Taril.8619" that decreasing dependence on rage skills to extend Berserk Mode is the way to go. Here is my take then: As part of Berserk Mode using a Primal Burst extends Berserk Mode by 2s. This is by use and not hit because you'd end up extending BMode by 30s with Arc Divider, and only 2s with Decapitate. That and blind won't shut it down. Killing a foe outside of Berserk Mode automatically refreshes Berserk Mode, you'd still need the adrenaline though. That alone would help in managing Berserk Mode. I mean **_thematically _** a berserker would be get their rage fueled as they kill things right and if they aren't raging then killing something would help get the rage going right? I'd also accept a flat CD reduction per foe killed though. Rage Skill flip overs (copying from @"Lighter.5631" 's post and editing here): Blood Reckoning: (normal state) Current effect sans duration extension, base heal is 30% more effective than current state. (berserk state) Current effect sans duration extension Giving a reason here to use it outside of Berserk Mode. Sundering Leap: (normal state) - Current skill but buff range to 900. (berserk state) - Becomes 900 range phase traversal-ish skill. I buffed the range there, because Warrior deserves nice things. Outrage : (normal state) If breaks stun, reduces recharge Berserk Mode. (berserk state) If breaks stun recharge Primal Burst. Self explanatory here. Shattering Blow: (normal state) Current skill. (berserk state) leaves aoe damage pulsing field on the ground that also pulse condition Leaving that as an option because it is interesting, but how about this one: (berserk state) removes all stab and protection from the target. It is a shattering blow right? So, lets shatter their defenses too. Wild Blow - Remove the CC, they ruined that part anyway (normal state) 100% crit chance, +50% critical damage, removes vigor and fury from the target, cures blind an activation. (berserk state) 100% crit chance, +50% critical damage, steals vigor and fury from the target, cures blind an activation. Bring some utility in stripping/stealing boons from the target. I'm open to other boon options. I thought about Might stealing, but with our interactions with Might that would be too powerful. I am open to Shattering Blow doing the same thing for Stab and Protection. Other than that return the original damage to the skill with 100% crit chance, and extra critical damage. Added bonus of cleansing blind. Headbutt - Remove the self stab removal, remove the self stun. (normal state) current effect with the above caveats. (berserk state) Increase travel speed by 100%. Stun duration is increased to 4s. Use the above Shattering Blow I recommend while in Berserk Mode, then quickly stun them for 4s. If they blew their stun breaks already then enjoy spamming Arc Divider or Decapitate for 4s :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taril.8619 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 > @"Lighter.5631" said: > i'm not sure you understand, the goal is to buff berserker without touching warrior and giving it's own identity, that's generally a better approach to balancing elite spec. There's plenty of ways to buff Berserker without touching core Warrior. The Berserk Mode mechanic, Berserker Traits, Berskerk Bursts... Rage skills are only one facet of Berserker, one that the E-Spec is already far too reliant on because it's the only way to have their class mechanic function. > > > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > > Ofc buffing rage skill doesnt mean berserker will take full rage skill, i'm sure shake it off or even stances will still be top picks for berserker, that's just how pvp is. > > > > Rage skills are heavily used by what Berserkers in all game modes. Since, without them, Berserker mode doesn't last very long, which means the entire E-Spec ceases to function and you're left with worse-than-Core Warrior because it has no class mechanic and only 2 specs due to how Berserker is entirely reliant on being in Berserker Mode for all its traits to function. > > > > This is without buffing them. > > you are asking too much of impossible. or are you just simply asking for a better warrior. > you are basically asking for a berserk that last forever without investment, which also won't solve it's problem in pvp. maybe core war is for you if you want to constantly using burst skill without down time and the need to invest slightess. "Better Warrior"... Likely won't be the case due to Berserk Modes 300 toughness penalty, need to get up to Adrenaline 3 to activate Berserk Mode (Let alone then cast Berserk Bursts), cast time on activating Berserk Mode and need to maintain Berserk Mode (Meaning being kited is a significant issue) Also, Berserk that lasts forever without investment? No, I suggested Burst skills extending the duration. The investment is the need to build up Adrenaline and use the Burst skills. These buffs to Rage skills won't solve its problem in PvP, which is that it's too easy to get focused down or kited when you activate Berserk Mode. (As well as having anemic damage since the nerfs to Berserk Bursts such as Arc Divider) Less reliance on Rage skills would help Berserker in PvP, as it means there's less choice between picking crummy Rage skills that are only really usable in PvE so that you can maintain Berserk Mode for any amount of time and taking actual utilities that will help you survive and get to targets. > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > Here is my take then: > Shattering Blow: > (normal state) Current skill. > (berserk state) leaves aoe damage pulsing field on the ground that also pulse condition > Leaving that as an option because it is interesting, but how about this one: > (berserk state) removes all stab and protection from the target. > It is a shattering blow right? So, lets shatter their defenses too. > > Wild Blow - Remove the CC, they ruined that part anyway > (normal state) 100% crit chance, +50% critical damage, removes vigor and fury from the target, cures blind an activation. > (berserk state) 100% crit chance, +50% critical damage, steals vigor and fury from the target, cures blind an activation. > Bring some utility in stripping/stealing boons from the target. I'm open to other boon options. I thought about Might stealing, but with our interactions with Might that would be too powerful. I am open to Shattering Blow doing the same thing for Stab and Protection. Other than that return the original damage to the skill with 100% crit chance, and extra critical damage. Added bonus of cleansing blind. Cool suggestions. Though, I am wary about these 2, since Boonrip is kind of like Spellbreaker **entire thing** so I'm not so sure it'd be a good fit for Berserker. I'd probably suggest gaining Quickness from Wild Blow as opposed to the Boonrip/steal (If the theme of the skill is going ham on them... Let us go ham on them!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 > @"Taril.8619" said: > > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > i'm not sure you understand, the goal is to buff berserker without touching warrior and giving it's own identity, that's generally a better approach to balancing elite spec. > > There's plenty of ways to buff Berserker without touching core Warrior. > > The Berserk Mode mechanic, Berserker Traits, Berskerk Bursts... > > Rage skills are only one facet of Berserker, one that the E-Spec is already far too reliant on because it's the only way to have their class mechanic function. > > > > > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > > > Ofc buffing rage skill doesnt mean berserker will take full rage skill, i'm sure shake it off or even stances will still be top picks for berserker, that's just how pvp is. > > > > > > Rage skills are heavily used by what Berserkers in all game modes. Since, without them, Berserker mode doesn't last very long, which means the entire E-Spec ceases to function and you're left with worse-than-Core Warrior because it has no class mechanic and only 2 specs due to how Berserker is entirely reliant on being in Berserker Mode for all its traits to function. > > > > > > This is without buffing them. > > > > you are asking too much of impossible. or are you just simply asking for a better warrior. > > you are basically asking for a berserk that last forever without investment, which also won't solve it's problem in pvp. maybe core war is for you if you want to constantly using burst skill without down time and the need to invest slightess. > > "Better Warrior"... Likely won't be the case due to Berserk Modes 300 toughness penalty, need to get up to Adrenaline 3 to activate Berserk Mode (Let alone then cast Berserk Bursts), cast time on activating Berserk Mode and need to maintain Berserk Mode (Meaning being kited is a significant issue) > > Also, Berserk that lasts forever without investment? No, I suggested Burst skills extending the duration. The investment is the need to build up Adrenaline and use the Burst skills. > > These buffs to Rage skills won't solve its problem in PvP, which is that it's too easy to get focused down or kited when you activate Berserk Mode. (As well as having anemic damage since the nerfs to Berserk Bursts such as Arc Divider) > > Less reliance on Rage skills would help Berserker in PvP, as it means there's less choice between picking crummy Rage skills that are only really usable in PvE so that you can maintain Berserk Mode for any amount of time and taking actual utilities that will help you survive and get to targets. > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > Here is my take then: > > > Shattering Blow: > > (normal state) Current skill. > > (berserk state) leaves aoe damage pulsing field on the ground that also pulse condition > > Leaving that as an option because it is interesting, but how about this one: > > (berserk state) removes all stab and protection from the target. > > It is a shattering blow right? So, lets shatter their defenses too. > > > > Wild Blow - Remove the CC, they ruined that part anyway > > (normal state) 100% crit chance, +50% critical damage, removes vigor and fury from the target, cures blind an activation. > > (berserk state) 100% crit chance, +50% critical damage, steals vigor and fury from the target, cures blind an activation. > > Bring some utility in stripping/stealing boons from the target. I'm open to other boon options. I thought about Might stealing, but with our interactions with Might that would be too powerful. I am open to Shattering Blow doing the same thing for Stab and Protection. Other than that return the original damage to the skill with 100% crit chance, and extra critical damage. Added bonus of cleansing blind. > > Cool suggestions. > > Though, I am wary about these 2, since Boonrip is kind of like Spellbreaker **entire thing** so I'm not so sure it'd be a good fit for Berserker. > > I'd probably suggest gaining Quickness from Wild Blow as opposed to the Boonrip/steal (If the theme of the skill is going ham on them... Let us go ham on them!) That is entirely fair to point out, to which I counter that I put specific boons there, mostly defensive in nature, in order to help provide a bit of utility and help not just personal dps but also team dps. Spellbreaker will still be king of Warrior boon ripping, and adding in targeted boon removal on Berserker will better help it go full ham while also adding some team support. As for the quickness issue, Burst of Aggression should either pulse quickness and super speed or reapply them when you hit with a primal burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Sooo... the skill flip is a full utility bar cd reset or are the cooldowns shared? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > Sooo... the skill flip is a full utility bar cd reset or are the cooldowns shared? I think they'd be shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighter.5631 Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > Sooo... the skill flip is a full utility bar cd reset or are the cooldowns shared? of course they will be shared, or else would be giving two heal which imo would be too strong and defeat the purpose of having to decide whether you need duration increase or cooldown reduction. i think having to decide makes it more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tycura.1982 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 sundering leap - on top of current effects (normal state) - same (berserk state) - becomes 600 range phase traversal-ish skill, reduces cooldown by 5 second if hit target. Get so angry you jump through space and time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKRathalos.9625 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > Killing a foe outside of Berserk Mode automatically refreshes Berserk Mode, you'd still need the adrenaline though. > That alone would help in managing Berserk Mode. I mean **_thematically _** a berserker would be get their rage fueled as they kill things right and if they aren't raging then killing something would help get the rage going right? I'd also accept a flat CD reduction per foe killed though. As usual nice suggestion Lan but that quoted alone I think it's very good to be applied now, I really approve the idea of reducing Berserk mode CD if get kills outside berserk, not so much OP considering warrior have to get adrenaline for activating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 > @"DKRathalos.9625" said: > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > Killing a foe outside of Berserk Mode automatically refreshes Berserk Mode, you'd still need the adrenaline though. > > That alone would help in managing Berserk Mode. I mean **_thematically _** a berserker would be get their rage fueled as they kill things right and if they aren't raging then killing something would help get the rage going right? I'd also accept a flat CD reduction per foe killed though. > > As usual nice suggestion Lan but that quoted alone I think it's very good to be applied now, I really approve the idea of reducing Berserk mode CD if get kills outside berserk, not so much OP considering warrior have to get adrenaline for activating it. Tyvm mate. I mean Anet loves their themes right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighter.5631 Posted July 12, 2020 Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 > @"Tycura.1982" said: > sundering leap - on top of current effects > (normal state) - same > (berserk state) - becomes 600 range phase traversal-ish skill, reduces cooldown by 5 second if hit target. > > Get so angry you jump through space and time get so strong your movement fast enough to look like teleport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > Sooo... the skill flip is a full utility bar cd reset or are the cooldowns shared? > > of course they will be shared, or else would be giving two heal which imo would be too strong and defeat the purpose of having to decide whether you need duration increase or cooldown reduction. i think having to decide makes it more fun. Yeah, me too, which is why I asked. ;) Not a huge fan of the idea of giving berk teleport though -both thematically and potential fiesta-wise so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighter.5631 Posted July 13, 2020 Author Share Posted July 13, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Lighter.5631" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > Sooo... the skill flip is a full utility bar cd reset or are the cooldowns shared? > > > > of course they will be shared, or else would be giving two heal which imo would be too strong and defeat the purpose of having to decide whether you need duration increase or cooldown reduction. i think having to decide makes it more fun. > > Yeah, me too, which is why I asked. ;) > > > Not a huge fan of the idea of giving berk teleport though -both thematically and potential fiesta-wise so to speak. tho teleport is almost the only most realistic way that will give berserker another playstyle other then side node bunker that can't finish anyone who decided to kit away unless u want water field, protection field, magical bubbles on weapon skills or aoe stealth or what not.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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