Why the player quality on pvp is so low on gw2?

[Vancho.8750]

> @"Strider.7849" said:

> > @"Vancho.8750" said:

> > PoF specks, most of them were designed for PVE dps and are too spammy in nature, low cds large AoEs no reliance on any combos. Just spam and let the build carry you .

> > This was probably made like that so new players can have easier time, which backfired since older players abused the kitten out if it.

> > And we thought that HoT was bad, how wrong were we.

>

> I have to say that as a player from launch, I really enjoyed the change of pace when heart of thorns dropped but that's where they started the cater to casuals PvP. Introducing a lot more DPS your opponent while being invulnerable, spam, and mindless play. I really loved the game pre-HoT but it's also what nearly killed this game since it people generally found it boring. My buddy and I used to take on entire zergs 2v15-25 people back then simply because we used proper timing on blocks, dodges, reflects, and knowing when to heal and peel for each other. The reason that stopped with HoT was that when you're fighting groups of even 5-8 you have people that can damage you while spamming distortion, evades, blocks, etc while still keep DPS up on you.

>

> After PoF, I've had moments where we can wipe guild groups of 5-8, but it's a lot more rare. It's more even now, but not because the opponents are more skilled imo, it's just the games evolved exactly the way you stated it to be in your comment. Spam.

I think the the HoT specks were not that badly designed, since they managed to rake them in before HoT ended, they were kinda core + in the start but over time they ended up in a position where they did one aspect of the core class better, you know like specialization in something. Not to say that they dont need more work currently, since some actually function way worse then their core alternatives.

PoF on other hand completely changed how the class played added more RP elements that ended up functionally broken.

Also i think they are still doing the same mistake like they did in the start of HoT, where the elites would be able to do everything instead doing one thing good.

In PoF we are still in a phase that the PoF elite specks can fulfill multiple roles, even though this expansion has been going for far longer then HoT.

[lare.5129]

player skill is very very strong .. For many ppl ir unbreakable wall.

this is no matter you play lower silver ot gold. This is same low-box. Minimal value - Plat. Only on plat. and higher you have additional pips progress.

Try take top250, and you will be impress player skill.

[sitarskee.5738]

Unwillingness to learn and adapt I'd say.

 

I remember my first games, I was and felt like shit, useless. But then I watched some sindrener vidoes on yt and all of a sudden my understanding of the game went through the roof and I felt like I could duel everyone and do good in games.

[avey.4201]

Had more fun getting killed pre 2/25, than winning post 2/25.

I can fight until the timer goes negative, and I die to poison, but why bother?

When builds can out heal your sustained berserk DPS, why try?

When your 10k block-able burst is removed, but classes with 3x your hp can burst you for 40k-60k DPS(unblock-able), wheres the competitiveness?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"avey.4201" said:

> Had more fun getting killed pre 2/25, than winning post 2/25.

> I can fight until the timer goes negative, and I die to poison, but why bother?

> When builds can out heal your sustained berserk DPS, why try?

> When your 10k block-able burst is removed, but classes with 3x your hp can burst you for 40k-60k DPS(unblock-able), wheres the competitiveness?

 

This^

That feb patch put another huge hole in the gw2 ship sinking it faster, balance in this game is beyond bad now.

[Metzie.3451]

> @"Azreell.1568" said:

> > @"anjo.6143" said:

> > Low population? Hard to learn? Hard to find sources of learning? Wrong rewards luring wrong peoples? A lot of newcomers?

> >

> > Why around 90% of the pvp population cant evolve?

>

> The primary reason GW2 has such a low PvP player base is simply the toxicity of this community.

>

 

Thanks for this wonderful joke, I had to laugh heartily.

 

That is by no means the main reason. In short, and first of all, ANet alone is responsible for why the player base is what it is. And only then comes everything else, and finally your assumption "the community is too toxic"! ;)

 

[sitarskee.5738]

> @"avey.4201" said:

> Had more fun getting killed pre 2/25, than winning post 2/25.

> I can fight until the timer goes negative, and I die to poison, but why bother?

> When builds can out heal your sustained berserk DPS, why try?

> When your 10k block-able burst is removed, but classes with 3x your hp can burst you for 40k-60k DPS(unblock-able), wheres the competitiveness?

 

Oh yeah, and that too!

 

I don't play many classes in pvp, actually only one - warrior. And I felt ultra weak after the feb patch, like I would use everything, burn all cooldowns and not miss my burst and I would almost manage to take 25% of his health that he would just insta get back. It feels better now of course but still, there are some almost unkillable classes and builds.

 

I feel like the gameplay is now less punishing if you don't avoid an attack but more punishing if you miss an attack. And I don't know if it's good.

I'm a noob tho so I dunno.

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> Last update example -

> -Killed rev that I believe just needed damage lowering but got trashed instead.

 

wat

 

The problem with condi-rev was that it was unkillable, not that it did too much damage. It's damage is fine.

 

Alot of balance changes seem to be done entirely at random, but this specific one was on point.

[Jasonbdj.4021]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > Last update example -

> > -Killed rev that I believe just needed damage lowering but got trashed instead.

>

> wat

>

> The problem with condi-rev was that it was unkillable, not that it did too much damage. It's damage is fine.

>

> Alot of balance changes seem to be done entirely at random, but this specific one was on point.

 

Unkillable? well if your running the usual facerolling coni build then it is more likely to be unkillable to you vs decent players.

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > > Last update example -

> > > -Killed rev that I believe just needed damage lowering but got trashed instead.

> >

> > wat

> >

> > The problem with condi-rev was that it was unkillable, not that it did too much damage. It's damage is fine.

> >

> > Alot of balance changes seem to be done entirely at random, but this specific one was on point.

>

> Unkillable? well if your running the usual facerolling coni build then it is more likely to be unkillable to you vs decent players.

 

Did you watch MOTA?

 

Revs were just AFK'ing next to each other because they knew it was pointless to fight. The only class that even bothered 1v1'd condi-rev was decap-ranger, and even then it had no chance of actually killing, only of getting a decap.

 

This has nothing to do with whether I, personally, could kill them. This was something that top teams were encountering. The shave to sustain was fully justified.

 

Infact, we may have just found the problem with the playerbase right here ^^

[Jasonbdj.4021]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > > > Last update example -

> > > > -Killed rev that I believe just needed damage lowering but got trashed instead.

> > >

> > > wat

> > >

> > > The problem with condi-rev was that it was unkillable, not that it did too much damage. It's damage is fine.

> > >

> > > Alot of balance changes seem to be done entirely at random, but this specific one was on point.

> >

> > Unkillable? well if your running the usual facerolling coni build then it is more likely to be unkillable to you vs decent players.

>

> Did you watch MOTA?

>

> Revs were just AFK'ing next to each other because they knew it was pointless to fight.

>

> This has nothing to do with whether I, personally, could kill them. This was something that top teams were encountering.

 

I don't watch people play lol.

 

Am going by experience, they needed tuning down not kill them off.

 

Rev vs Rev.....yes that would be pointless, just like core nerco vs core nerco lol

 

Oh look core nerco still exist with the extremely easy game-play. (btw I main nerco)

 

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > > > > Last update example -

> > > > > -Killed rev that I believe just needed damage lowering but got trashed instead.

> > > >

> > > > wat

> > > >

> > > > The problem with condi-rev was that it was unkillable, not that it did too much damage. It's damage is fine.

> > > >

> > > > Alot of balance changes seem to be done entirely at random, but this specific one was on point.

> > >

> > > Unkillable? well if your running the usual facerolling coni build then it is more likely to be unkillable to you vs decent players.

> >

> > Did you watch MOTA?

> >

> > Revs were just AFK'ing next to each other because they knew it was pointless to fight.

> >

> > This has nothing to do with whether I, personally, could kill them. This was something that top teams were encountering.

>

> I don't watch people play lol.

>

> Am going by experience, they needed tuning down not kill them off.

>

> Rev vs Rev.....yes that would be pointless, just like core nerco vs core nerco lol

>

> Oh look core nerco still exist with the extremely easy game-play. (btw I main nerco)

>

 

So all the top teams in the world acknowledge a problem, but because you don't watch them that means it doesn't exist.

 

Okay mate.

[Jasonbdj.4021]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > > > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > > > > > Last update example -

> > > > > > -Killed rev that I believe just needed damage lowering but got trashed instead.

> > > > >

> > > > > wat

> > > > >

> > > > > The problem with condi-rev was that it was unkillable, not that it did too much damage. It's damage is fine.

> > > > >

> > > > > Alot of balance changes seem to be done entirely at random, but this specific one was on point.

> > > >

> > > > Unkillable? well if your running the usual facerolling coni build then it is more likely to be unkillable to you vs decent players.

> > >

> > > Did you watch MOTA?

> > >

> > > Revs were just AFK'ing next to each other because they knew it was pointless to fight.

> > >

> > > This has nothing to do with whether I, personally, could kill them. This was something that top teams were encountering.

> >

> > I don't watch people play lol.

> >

> > Am going by experience, they needed tuning down not kill them off.

> >

> > Rev vs Rev.....yes that would be pointless, just like core nerco vs core nerco lol

> >

> > Oh look core nerco still exist with the extremely easy game-play. (btw I main nerco)

> >

>

> So all the top teams in the world acknowledge a problem, but because you don't watch them that means it doesn't exist.

>

> Okay mate.

 

What?

 

I am going from my experience, I don't have time to waste on watching people play games lol I don't find that entertaining at all.

 

I've beaten many revs 1vs1 using non-meta build lol they didn't need to die just tuning down but it got trashed...... so what is wrong with saying this?

 

Game needs more options in builds lol not less.

 

My experience and my opinion doesn't have to match yours, people who plays 24h/7 or your favorite streamer but am allow to share it.

 

What was the "top team" using, the usual meta builds?

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > > > > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > > > > > > Last update example -

> > > > > > > -Killed rev that I believe just needed damage lowering but got trashed instead.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > wat

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The problem with condi-rev was that it was unkillable, not that it did too much damage. It's damage is fine.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Alot of balance changes seem to be done entirely at random, but this specific one was on point.

> > > > >

> > > > > Unkillable? well if your running the usual facerolling coni build then it is more likely to be unkillable to you vs decent players.

> > > >

> > > > Did you watch MOTA?

> > > >

> > > > Revs were just AFK'ing next to each other because they knew it was pointless to fight.

> > > >

> > > > This has nothing to do with whether I, personally, could kill them. This was something that top teams were encountering.

> > >

> > > I don't watch people play lol.

> > >

> > > Am going by experience, they needed tuning down not kill them off.

> > >

> > > Rev vs Rev.....yes that would be pointless, just like core nerco vs core nerco lol

> > >

> > > Oh look core nerco still exist with the extremely easy game-play. (btw I main nerco)

> > >

> >

> > So all the top teams in the world acknowledge a problem, but because you don't watch them that means it doesn't exist.

> >

> > Okay mate.

>

> What was the "top team" using, the usual meta builds?

 

You don't even think "top teams" actually exist? You think you know better?

 

This is exactly the playerbase problem. They don't even think that skill is a real thing, it's all just "It's not that I'm bad or my enemy is good, it's just that the game is against me".

 

I thought in your first post you said that "decent players" didn't have any problem with it. And yet I'm demonstrating to you that they do. So now you move the goalposts ^^

[Jasonbdj.4021]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > > > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > > > > > > > Last update example -

> > > > > > > > -Killed rev that I believe just needed damage lowering but got trashed instead.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > wat

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The problem with condi-rev was that it was unkillable, not that it did too much damage. It's damage is fine.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Alot of balance changes seem to be done entirely at random, but this specific one was on point.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Unkillable? well if your running the usual facerolling coni build then it is more likely to be unkillable to you vs decent players.

> > > > >

> > > > > Did you watch MOTA?

> > > > >

> > > > > Revs were just AFK'ing next to each other because they knew it was pointless to fight.

> > > > >

> > > > > This has nothing to do with whether I, personally, could kill them. This was something that top teams were encountering.

> > > >

> > > > I don't watch people play lol.

> > > >

> > > > Am going by experience, they needed tuning down not kill them off.

> > > >

> > > > Rev vs Rev.....yes that would be pointless, just like core nerco vs core nerco lol

> > > >

> > > > Oh look core nerco still exist with the extremely easy game-play. (btw I main nerco)

> > > >

> > >

> > > So all the top teams in the world acknowledge a problem, but because you don't watch them that means it doesn't exist.

> > >

> > > Okay mate.

> >

> > What was the "top team" using, the usual meta builds?

>

> You don't even think "top teams" actually exist? You think you know better?

>

> This is exactly the playerbase problem. They don't even think that skill is a real thing, it's all just "It's not that I'm bad or my enemy is good, it's just that the game is against me".

>

> I thought in your first post you said that "decent players" didn't have any problem with it. And yet I'm demonstrating to you that they do. So now you move the goalposts ^^

 

Oh am sorry, did I offended your favorite streamer or something?

 

I never claim to be Mr Better-then-god-himself lol

 

I didn't said decent players should not have a problem with them, build types and skill also plays a major part of it. (Bots can run some builds better the humans lol).

 

I never really found them un-killable with my build however I know that decent revs can be un-killable depending on opponent and their build (Rev vs rev was pointless saw that many times). It just needed tuning down but stay as an option in PVP but it was trashed.

 

"Unkillable? well if your running the usual facerolling coni build then it is more likely to be unkillable to you vs decent players."

 

Meaning Decent revs are unkillerable to those that are running facerolling coni builds.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> This was something that top teams were encountering. The shave to sustain was fully justified.

 

Top players are nothing to design balance around.

They are outliers that will **always** find something to exploit.

Balance has to be done around the average, were the majority of players is.

 

I've yet to see any Condi Revenant that was hard to kill.

 

[bluri.2653]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > This was something that top teams were encountering. The shave to sustain was fully justified.

>

> Top players are nothing to design balance around.

> They are outliers that will **always** find something to exploit.

> Balance has to be done around the average, were the majority of players is.

>

> I've yet to see any Condi Revenant that was hard to kill.

>

 

The balance atm is catered to the average and look where it got us lmao.

 

Utter gar ba ge

 

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> The balance atm is catered to the average and look where it got us lmao.

>

> Utter gar ba ge

>

 

Well yes the balance is iffy but there's more to it than that.

You and me both know we have top players trading keys for wins in ranked live on stream.

 

Unac cepta ble

[Kreths.8457]

I've been playing gw2 for a while now, i was gold3, i never really did better, i think it's because i find the gameplay bad and very frustrating, i am trying to improve but i just don't get it, i don't like the way the character is moving, i don't like the way the targeting is made, i don't like how much of a mess this is on the battlefield with all those aoe, i would like the dodge to be "rewarding", when i enter the mid fight it feels like i am randomly dodging some spell wich just paint my screen with all those effects , the pop is low for a reason : gw2 does not please mmo-pvp-gamers, the majority is here mainly for pve.

 

For example : i have also been a try hard gamer on wow arenas (2v2 and 3v3) and i have improved A LOT through time on those games mode, i went for 1k5-1k6 to finally 2k2 in my last experience. Compared to wow arenas, 2v2 in gw2 is just horrible from my pov, never seen something so unbalanced, anet knows the pvp will never attract a lot of streamers/viewers and still less competitions worthy of the name and we know it too, so i guess there is a lot of people like me who try without really trying.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> The balance atm is catered to the average and look where it got us.

There is literally nothing catered towards the average.

 

Massive condi bombs that average players have no hope to avoid?

Arenanet doubling down on CC effectiveness when most people already struggled with the overabundance of CC?

Runaway (Stealth, Teleport etc) gets worse, despite the majority having disdain for it?

Bunker builds that can't be taken down with less then 3 or 4 people?

 

Arenanet made everything worse for the average.

The changes literally benefit noone, it's just _changes for the sake of changes._

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> > The balance atm is catered to the average and look where it got us lmao.

> There is literally nothing catered towards the average.

>

> Massive condi bombs that average players have no hope to avoid?

> Arenanet doubling down on CC effectiveness when most people already struggled with the overabundance of CC?

> Runaway (Stealth, Teleport etc) gets worse, despite the majority having disdain for it?

> Bunker builds that can't be taken down with less then 3 or 4 people?

>

> Arenanet made everything worse for the average.

> The changes literally benefit noone, it's just _changes for the sake of changes._

 

yes I agree completely. It wasn't me who said that I was just quoting that person.

 

I haven't looked into a whole lot, but it be like that now. I too have resorted to playing a CC-spam bunker build that can sometimes take 3 people to deal with. Usually when there's new/average people on the other team that don't know how to deal with it, that's when it takes a bunch of people to kill you or chase you off point.

 

So yes I agree it is not catered to those players either. Honestly they're usually the first ones to say: "Wow, forget this clown fiesta i'm out."

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> It wasn't me who said that I was just quoting that person.

My bad about that.

I fixed it.

[bluri.2653]

> @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> > > The balance atm is catered to the average and look where it got us lmao.

> > There is literally nothing catered towards the average.

> >

> > Massive condi bombs that average players have no hope to avoid?

> > Arenanet doubling down on CC effectiveness when most people already struggled with the overabundance of CC?

> > Runaway (Stealth, Teleport etc) gets worse, despite the majority having disdain for it?

> > Bunker builds that can't be taken down with less then 3 or 4 people?

> >

> > Arenanet made everything worse for the average.

> > The changes literally benefit noone, it's just _changes for the sake of changes._

>

> yes I agree completely. It wasn't me who said that I was just quoting that person.

>

> I haven't looked into a whole lot, but it be like that now. I too have resorted to playing a CC-spam bunker build that can sometimes take 3 people to deal with. Usually when there's new/average people on the other team that don't know how to deal with it, that's when it takes a bunch of people to kill you or chase you off point.

>

> So yes I agree it is not catered to those players either. Honestly they're usually the first ones to say: "Wow, forget this clown fiesta i'm out."

 

Sorry to burst both of your bubbles but the game has not been this dumbed down ever, its probably worse than bunker chrono in early HoT.

 

Every gank setup, moa spikes, portal plays, rotations are long gone. 1v1ers unable to kill each other, this is what we have now. You both obviously dont play organised etc so u dont understand

 

[Starbreaker.6507]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> > > > The balance atm is catered to the average and look where it got us lmao.

> > > There is literally nothing catered towards the average.

> > >

> > > Massive condi bombs that average players have no hope to avoid?

> > > Arenanet doubling down on CC effectiveness when most people already struggled with the overabundance of CC?

> > > Runaway (Stealth, Teleport etc) gets worse, despite the majority having disdain for it?

> > > Bunker builds that can't be taken down with less then 3 or 4 people?

> > >

> > > Arenanet made everything worse for the average.

> > > The changes literally benefit noone, it's just _changes for the sake of changes._

> >

> > yes I agree completely. It wasn't me who said that I was just quoting that person.

> >

> > I haven't looked into a whole lot, but it be like that now. I too have resorted to playing a CC-spam bunker build that can sometimes take 3 people to deal with. Usually when there's new/average people on the other team that don't know how to deal with it, that's when it takes a bunch of people to kill you or chase you off point.

> >

> > So yes I agree it is not catered to those players either. Honestly they're usually the first ones to say: "Wow, forget this clown fiesta i'm out."

>

> Sorry to burst both of your bubbles but the game has not been this dumbed down ever, its probably worse than bunker chrono in early HoT.

>

> Every gank setup, moa spikes, portal plays, rotations are long gone. 1v1ers unable to kill each other, this is what we have now. You both obviously dont play organised etc so u dont understand

>

 

I thought the coordinated dancing parties over Tranquility during the MOTA were a nice change of pace over watching the standard condi rev vs bunker soulbeast wet noodles slapping on node.

[bluri.2653]

> @"Starbreaker.6507" said:

> > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> > > > > The balance atm is catered to the average and look where it got us lmao.

> > > > There is literally nothing catered towards the average.

> > > >

> > > > Massive condi bombs that average players have no hope to avoid?

> > > > Arenanet doubling down on CC effectiveness when most people already struggled with the overabundance of CC?

> > > > Runaway (Stealth, Teleport etc) gets worse, despite the majority having disdain for it?

> > > > Bunker builds that can't be taken down with less then 3 or 4 people?

> > > >

> > > > Arenanet made everything worse for the average.

> > > > The changes literally benefit noone, it's just _changes for the sake of changes._

> > >

> > > yes I agree completely. It wasn't me who said that I was just quoting that person.

> > >

> > > I haven't looked into a whole lot, but it be like that now. I too have resorted to playing a CC-spam bunker build that can sometimes take 3 people to deal with. Usually when there's new/average people on the other team that don't know how to deal with it, that's when it takes a bunch of people to kill you or chase you off point.

> > >

> > > So yes I agree it is not catered to those players either. Honestly they're usually the first ones to say: "Wow, forget this clown fiesta i'm out."

> >

> > Sorry to burst both of your bubbles but the game has not been this dumbed down ever, its probably worse than bunker chrono in early HoT.

> >

> > Every gank setup, moa spikes, portal plays, rotations are long gone. 1v1ers unable to kill each other, this is what we have now. You both obviously dont play organised etc so u dont understand

> >

>

> I thought the coordinated dancing parties over Tranquility during the MOTA were a nice change of pace over watching the standard condi rev vs bunker soulbeast wet noodles slapping on node.

 

Pretty much, the game has been straight out casual over whole PoF