KryTiKaL.3125 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > @"wevh.2903" said: > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > @"Arctarius.2649" said: > > > > As someone who has played over 4K ranked games, I strongly feel that these are the superior game modes especially in today’s GW2. With the amount of AOE damage and condo damage stacking in team fights, I feel the barrier to entry in PvP has become too high. Unless you have years of time playing the game and understand what’s going on when you get in team fights.. it is actually just a mess. 2v2 and 3v3 fix this problem naturally by simply removing extra players which cause more skill clutter and confusion. It’s just too much. 2v2 and 3v3 is also just more fun, I mean hell.. we play pvp to you know.. PvP not capture points and get forced to stand in circles with classes that produce aoe’s so big that you are forced to just get wrecked. If new players come in and see pvp in its current state. I fear it willl never grow.. and with steam right around the corner there really isn’t much time for change. The sooner the better. > > > > I genuinely just wanna see this game grow, and with how well pvp does in WoW with its 2v2’s.. why the hell cant GW2, the game with the best combat system on the market do better? > > > > > > GW2 PvP is balanced for conquest. 2v2 and 3v3 are AoE-spam bunkerfests, only a fraction of classes can actually compete. NO. > > > > > > What do u think this ppl enjoy? Actually thinking and improving on a strategy pvp or spamming aoe with their tanky build? > > There is hardly any strategy in a team deathmatch compared to conquest. No objectives, no rotations, just fight in a small arena. What point are you trying to make? Mmmm that isn't entirely accurate. Its just different strategies are used. I get a lot of people see Deathmatch gametypes as "They are simple, just kill" but when we're talking about mechanically adept or skilled players fighting one another in a proper comp it sort of requires more strategy and callouts than you might think. Granted in GW2, the whole "just kill" mentality is much more easily facilitated because of the burst damage that is **still** present in the oppressive builds right now. TTK is not anywhere near what I would consider "consistent" and as such makes the general TTK kind of...not good in this game. Look at a game like Lost Ark, the TTK in that game actually looks really good. Not too long, not too short. Looks just about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > @"wevh.2903" said: > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > @"Arctarius.2649" said: > > > > > As someone who has played over 4K ranked games, I strongly feel that these are the superior game modes especially in today’s GW2. With the amount of AOE damage and condo damage stacking in team fights, I feel the barrier to entry in PvP has become too high. Unless you have years of time playing the game and understand what’s going on when you get in team fights.. it is actually just a mess. 2v2 and 3v3 fix this problem naturally by simply removing extra players which cause more skill clutter and confusion. It’s just too much. 2v2 and 3v3 is also just more fun, I mean hell.. we play pvp to you know.. PvP not capture points and get forced to stand in circles with classes that produce aoe’s so big that you are forced to just get wrecked. If new players come in and see pvp in its current state. I fear it willl never grow.. and with steam right around the corner there really isn’t much time for change. The sooner the better. > > > > > I genuinely just wanna see this game grow, and with how well pvp does in WoW with its 2v2’s.. why the hell cant GW2, the game with the best combat system on the market do better? > > > > > > > > GW2 PvP is balanced for conquest. 2v2 and 3v3 are AoE-spam bunkerfests, only a fraction of classes can actually compete. NO. > > > > > > > > > What do u think this ppl enjoy? Actually thinking and improving on a strategy pvp or spamming aoe with their tanky build? > > > > There is hardly any strategy in a team deathmatch compared to conquest. No objectives, no rotations, just fight in a small arena. What point are you trying to make? > > Mmmm that isn't entirely accurate. Its just different strategies are used. I get a lot of people see Deathmatch gametypes as "They are simple, just kill" but when we're talking about mechanically adept or skilled players fighting one another in a proper comp it sort of requires more strategy and callouts than you might think. Granted in GW2, the whole "just kill" mentality is much more easily facilitated because of the burst damage that is **still** present in the oppressive builds right now. TTK is not anywhere near what I would consider "consistent" and as such makes the general TTK kind of...not good in this game. Look at a game like Lost Ark, the TTK in that game actually looks really good. Not too long, not too short. Looks just about right. The whole "complexity" of 3v3 is the teamfight aspect of conquest. Except it's even simpler, because there is no midpoint that at you have to contest, and there is nowhere to retreat to if you're about to lose, the maps are too small for a disengage. It's literally "just kill". What I said IS entirely accurate. Also when I see comments talking about TTK, DPS, HPS... these things don't make sense in the context of PvP. An AFK bunker might die to a burst in 2 seconds, but the same 1v1 can drag out infinitely if the bunker actually reacts. So you can look at both outcomes of the same 1v1, and say "_omg TTK is just 2 seconds against a defensive build, nerf damage!_" or "_full glass offensive build can't even bring the bunker below 50%, damage need buffs_"... and be wrong on it each time btw. There isn't supposed to be a TTK, only situations where someone ends up dead unless they escape said situation. I'm talking about conquest of course, in team deathmatch there is no escape. The enemy rolled smiteball and you didn't roll mirror or counter(is there even a counter to smiteball?), so you lose by default. Now have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > @"wevh.2903" said: > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > @"Arctarius.2649" said: > > > > > > As someone who has played over 4K ranked games, I strongly feel that these are the superior game modes especially in today’s GW2. With the amount of AOE damage and condo damage stacking in team fights, I feel the barrier to entry in PvP has become too high. Unless you have years of time playing the game and understand what’s going on when you get in team fights.. it is actually just a mess. 2v2 and 3v3 fix this problem naturally by simply removing extra players which cause more skill clutter and confusion. It’s just too much. 2v2 and 3v3 is also just more fun, I mean hell.. we play pvp to you know.. PvP not capture points and get forced to stand in circles with classes that produce aoe’s so big that you are forced to just get wrecked. If new players come in and see pvp in its current state. I fear it willl never grow.. and with steam right around the corner there really isn’t much time for change. The sooner the better. > > > > > > I genuinely just wanna see this game grow, and with how well pvp does in WoW with its 2v2’s.. why the hell cant GW2, the game with the best combat system on the market do better? > > > > > > > > > > GW2 PvP is balanced for conquest. 2v2 and 3v3 are AoE-spam bunkerfests, only a fraction of classes can actually compete. NO. > > > > > > > > > > > > What do u think this ppl enjoy? Actually thinking and improving on a strategy pvp or spamming aoe with their tanky build? > > > > > > There is hardly any strategy in a team deathmatch compared to conquest. No objectives, no rotations, just fight in a small arena. What point are you trying to make? > > > > Mmmm that isn't entirely accurate. Its just different strategies are used. I get a lot of people see Deathmatch gametypes as "They are simple, just kill" but when we're talking about mechanically adept or skilled players fighting one another in a proper comp it sort of requires more strategy and callouts than you might think. Granted in GW2, the whole "just kill" mentality is much more easily facilitated because of the burst damage that is **still** present in the oppressive builds right now. TTK is not anywhere near what I would consider "consistent" and as such makes the general TTK kind of...not good in this game. Look at a game like Lost Ark, the TTK in that game actually looks really good. Not too long, not too short. Looks just about right. > > The whole "complexity" of 3v3 is the teamfight aspect of conquest. Except it's even simpler, because there is no midpoint that at you have to contest, and there is nowhere to retreat to if you're about to lose, the maps are too small for a disengage. It's literally "just kill". What I said IS entirely accurate. > Also when I see comments talking about TTK, DPS, HPS... these things don't make sense in the context of PvP. An AFK bunker might die to a burst in 2 seconds, but the same 1v1 can drag out infinitely if the bunker actually reacts. So you can look at both outcomes of the same 1v1, and say "_omg TTK is just 2 seconds against a defensive build, nerf damage!_" or "_full glass offensive build can't even bring the bunker below 50%, damage need buffs_"... and be wrong on it each time btw. There isn't supposed to be a TTK, only situations where someone ends up dead unless they escape said situation. I'm talking about conquest of course, in team deathmatch there is no escape. The enemy rolled smiteball and you didn't roll mirror or counter(is there even a counter to smiteball?), so you lose by default. Now have fun! Except those things all still have something to do with PvP. So for instance in BDO, TTK is very low (aka short) so when you get caught by CC you're pretty much dead with a one tap combo. DPS also plays a role because it plays into how much damage you might be able to put out in a short span of time (also can be called burst), similarly with healing. So if TTK were not as low as it is in GW2, that would mean less need for larger heals, and less need for sustain being heavily loaded onto classes. TTK being low is due to damage being where it is, and what makes damage so high (this is still in acknowledgement of the damage nerf) is the access to boons and other damage modifiers in the game. Thats why I said it is inconsistent, and that creates a set of problems like things we've seen in the past with bunkers being too much, and then one shot builds being too much, and condi builds being too much. They haven't found the spot with damage that feels good because of all of these factors in the game like healing skills, defensive boons, defensive stats, etc. Its a lot to account for when balancing things. So we see what we currently have in the game like nade holo pumping out quite a bit of damage while still having quite a bit of sustain, but thats just one example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > @"wevh.2903" said: > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > @"Arctarius.2649" said: > > > > > > > As someone who has played over 4K ranked games, I strongly feel that these are the superior game modes especially in today’s GW2. With the amount of AOE damage and condo damage stacking in team fights, I feel the barrier to entry in PvP has become too high. Unless you have years of time playing the game and understand what’s going on when you get in team fights.. it is actually just a mess. 2v2 and 3v3 fix this problem naturally by simply removing extra players which cause more skill clutter and confusion. It’s just too much. 2v2 and 3v3 is also just more fun, I mean hell.. we play pvp to you know.. PvP not capture points and get forced to stand in circles with classes that produce aoe’s so big that you are forced to just get wrecked. If new players come in and see pvp in its current state. I fear it willl never grow.. and with steam right around the corner there really isn’t much time for change. The sooner the better. > > > > > > > I genuinely just wanna see this game grow, and with how well pvp does in WoW with its 2v2’s.. why the hell cant GW2, the game with the best combat system on the market do better? > > > > > > > > > > > > GW2 PvP is balanced for conquest. 2v2 and 3v3 are AoE-spam bunkerfests, only a fraction of classes can actually compete. NO. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do u think this ppl enjoy? Actually thinking and improving on a strategy pvp or spamming aoe with their tanky build? > > > > > > > > There is hardly any strategy in a team deathmatch compared to conquest. No objectives, no rotations, just fight in a small arena. What point are you trying to make? > > > > > > Mmmm that isn't entirely accurate. Its just different strategies are used. I get a lot of people see Deathmatch gametypes as "They are simple, just kill" but when we're talking about mechanically adept or skilled players fighting one another in a proper comp it sort of requires more strategy and callouts than you might think. Granted in GW2, the whole "just kill" mentality is much more easily facilitated because of the burst damage that is **still** present in the oppressive builds right now. TTK is not anywhere near what I would consider "consistent" and as such makes the general TTK kind of...not good in this game. Look at a game like Lost Ark, the TTK in that game actually looks really good. Not too long, not too short. Looks just about right. > > > > The whole "complexity" of 3v3 is the teamfight aspect of conquest. Except it's even simpler, because there is no midpoint that at you have to contest, and there is nowhere to retreat to if you're about to lose, the maps are too small for a disengage. It's literally "just kill". What I said IS entirely accurate. > > Also when I see comments talking about TTK, DPS, HPS... these things don't make sense in the context of PvP. An AFK bunker might die to a burst in 2 seconds, but the same 1v1 can drag out infinitely if the bunker actually reacts. So you can look at both outcomes of the same 1v1, and say "_omg TTK is just 2 seconds against a defensive build, nerf damage!_" or "_full glass offensive build can't even bring the bunker below 50%, damage need buffs_"... and be wrong on it each time btw. There isn't supposed to be a TTK, only situations where someone ends up dead unless they escape said situation. I'm talking about conquest of course, in team deathmatch there is no escape. The enemy rolled smiteball and you didn't roll mirror or counter(is there even a counter to smiteball?), so you lose by default. Now have fun! > > Except those things all still have something to do with PvP. So for instance in BDO, TTK is very low (aka short) so when you get caught by CC you're pretty much dead with a one tap combo. DPS also plays a role because it plays into how much damage you might be able to put out in a short span of time (also can be called burst), similarly with healing. So if TTK were not as low as it is in GW2, that would mean less need for larger heals, and less need for sustain being heavily loaded onto classes. TTK being low is due to damage being where it is, and what makes damage so high (this is still in acknowledgement of the damage nerf) is the access to boons and other damage modifiers in the game. > > Thats why I said it is inconsistent, and that creates a set of problems like things we've seen in the past with bunkers being too much, and then one shot builds being too much, and condi builds being too much. They haven't found the spot with damage that feels good because of all of these factors in the game like healing skills, defensive boons, defensive stats, etc. Its a lot to account for when balancing things. So we see what we currently have in the game like nade holo pumping out quite a bit of damage while still having quite a bit of sustain, but thats just one example. So DPS(actually landed damage divided by the time it took to land said damage) is the same as damage potential and burst, TTK is low in a game where CC bunker scrappers and unkillable core guardians hold points for forever, and both damage and sustain are too high(Even though they can only be too high relative to one other). Apart from being wrong, none of this has anything to do with the thread, nor are you actually adressing what I said earlier so... what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggityzog.7389 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 Bingo. Let circlequest just die. Let's just finally moved on to actual PvP after 20 ish seasons of wasted time. Seasons 1-4 were the only legitimate seasons due to the wintrade wars starting in season 5. Move onto 2v2 3v3 and 5v5 ranked TDM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlie.7641 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 It's surprising it lasted as long as it did, considering they made the mistake of preventing decaps while being outnumbered. There was a reason must other studios started to allow decaps with > #'s. OFC this was going to lead to less diversity.as more players ask themselfes "What kills a bunker?".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youle.5824 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Pls no.... 2v2 and 3v3 are rly boring compared to conquest for me and a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeruno.7589 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 I'd much prefer smaller teams (so 2v2 or 3v3) so that it's less likely to meet toxic people/trolls and easier to communicate and understand each other. It seems things are more likely to blow up the bigger the number of people involved. Would be easier to play with friends as well since it's easier to find 1-2 people who agree with your strategy or who share your schedule than to find 4 others who do. Would probably require more creative maps / objectives though. Maybe a nice addition would be to have a party leader who can choose from a pool of players/classes queuing up for the game mode or who can kick people who are afk or refuse to communicate before the match starts. But I guess 5 is a special number in other games. And not sure where the worry for balance in this game mode comes from, it's unrealistic that all classes can be viable since some will always be better in some things than others and people will always find good builds which are not meta (very fun if the people you play with can accept you doing that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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