Gemstore slowly becoming whale friendly

[savacli.8172]

OH MY DWANYA!! I didn't know I could buy ascended gear from the Gem Store??!!!!.....oh wait I can't

BUT AT LEAST I CAN BUY LEGENDARY ARMOR......still no

SURELY THERE'S EXCLUSIVE RUNES AND SIGILS.......nein

 

As far as I'm concerned there's nothing on the Gem store that is game breaking. Sure you got things like insta-waypoint unlock, boosters, and Mistlock Sanctuary passes, but those are all convenience items and are not in anyway required to be competitive in the game....unless fashion wars is your thing. In which case, be ready to dish out some serious cash.

[Chickenooble.5014]

> @inubasiri.8745 said:

> > @Chickenooble.5014 said:

> > The OP compares ArenaNet to Activision/EA but there's one big difference -- ArenaNet let's you buy their currency using in-game currency and Activision/EA requires real cash payments afaik.

>

> Thing is I don't compare them. I say that Anet is moving closer to them with these specific little things. They don't compare now. And hopefully never will.

A comparison doesn't require equality. You can compare a dog and brick despite the two having little in common. You were comparing them and suggesting that their micro-transactions are on the same scale. For the reason that all gem store items can be purchased without ever spending an additional dollar on the game tells me ArenaNet is not lurching toward Activision/EA levels.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Speaking solely for myself, I do not care for:

 

1) RNG purchases. This practice is clearly intended to make people pay more for a given item than they would pay if the item were sold at a fixed price they would be willing to pay. I want to know that I am spending X amount to get item Y, not that I have a Z% chance to get item W. This means that I only open BL chests with keys obtained by playing the game. I don't spend cash to get keys. I don't spend gold to get keys.

2) Bundles which contain items not available individually. Sure, they offer potential savings for those who want enough of the items to make the larger price worthwhile, but I find that I usually want only one of the items. This means that I'd be paying more for the one item I want than the going rate for that item would be based on standard prices for similar items offered separately (e.g., outfits). Therefore, I boycott these purchases as well.

 

As to setting a high price for a single item, like the L80 scroll the OP mentions? That I have no problem with. A single item at a fixed price is a straightforward business practice. If the price is too high, then consumers won't pay. I'm only opposed to practices that are designed to get people to spend more on an item than that item would command at a straightforward price point.

[inubasiri.8745]

> @Chickenooble.5014 said:

> > @inubasiri.8745 said:

> > > @Chickenooble.5014 said:

> > > The OP compares ArenaNet to Activision/EA but there's one big difference -- ArenaNet let's you buy their currency using in-game currency and Activision/EA requires real cash payments afaik.

> >

> > Thing is I don't compare them. I say that Anet is moving closer to them with these specific little things. They don't compare now. And hopefully never will.

> A comparison doesn't require equality. You can compare a dog and brick despite the two having little in common. You were comparing them and suggesting that their micro-transactions are on the same scale. For the reason that all gem store items can be purchased without ever spending an additional dollar on the game tells me ArenaNet is not lurching toward Activision/EA levels.

 

You're still misunderstanding. The gem store model has been set up 5 years ago and it's the reason I'm playing GW2 today. In here I'm saying that if the trend continues it would move away from the original model. Eventually with enough significance. That's all. I don't know why people panic whenever they see such a post and assume it's someone preaching end of the world.

[Chickenooble.5014]

Making cash-only options would move away from the original model. Making things more expensive but still allowing those expensive options to be purchased with in-game gold doesn't move away from the original model. That's all. And I'm not panicked. You're the one who created some self-righteous thread expressing your opinion for the "maybe future that hasn't happened" as if anyone cared. ;)

[inubasiri.8745]

> @savacli.8172 said:

> OH MY DWANYA!! I didn't know I could buy ascended gear from the Gem Store??!!!!.....oh wait I can't

> BUT AT LEAST I CAN BUY LEGENDARY ARMOR......still no

> SURELY THERE'S EXCLUSIVE RUNES AND SIGILS.......nein

>

> As far as I'm concerned there's nothing on the Gem store that is game breaking. Sure you got things like insta-waypoint unlock, boosters, and Mistlock Sanctuary passes, but those are all convenience items and are not in anyway required to be competitive in the game....unless fashion wars is your thing. In which case, be ready to dish out some serious cash.

 

I haven't been complaining about that either, though. I can't imagine Anet ever selling ascended items on the gemstore. That's going against their philosophy. Despite breaking promises during the first months by actually making ascended items. They've been well implemented.

[inubasiri.8745]

> @Chickenooble.5014 said:

> Making cash-only options would move away from the original model. Making things more expensive but still allowing those expensive options to be purchased with in-game gold doesn't move away from the original model. That's all. And I'm not panicked. You're the one who created some self-righteous thread expressing your opinion for the "maybe future that hasn't happened" as if anyone cared. ;)

 

Apparently I care for the very least. Enough to post on forums where I expect to be eaten alive by people who might in the future very well flip around and oppose this if it goes beyond what they think of as "okay". But I'll leave that to the future.

[Esquilax.3491]

2000 gems is Saudi prince? Exagerate much? That's an hours work on minimum wage. Most of us work 8 hour days...

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @inubasiri.8745 said:

> Well they aren't significantly bad for the game now. I said that in the first post. I just don't think going this way is the right direction. As you said: "Clearly it's not tempting to anyone with a thin wallet." And if you read the header...

It's not clear at all what you find objectionable. That the gem shop has items best suited to people best able to pay, without offering them anything other than convenience or cosmetics? What don't you like about that?

 

> Also technically, autoloot is a part of Central Tyria Masteries and those aren't part of the free game, so technically, they aren't "free" free.

Autolooting is included in the price of purchase if you buy today; they aren't part of the cash shop. In contrast, in BDO, you can't get any form of autolooting without spending extra.

 

> That's the thing, a lot of people, for some reason, believe that I say that the game is wrecked because of these fringe items.

I don't think you're saying it's wrecked, I think you're claiming it's heading in the wrong direction. But I can't figure out why you think that.

 

> Well I don't, I just think that this is the wrong way and eventually, two years ahead maybe, if this persists, it would start becoming significantly bad.

Maybe you can clarify then: what would the game look like (maybe) in two years _if it goes in the direction that you see_ so that it would be bad? I'm really not trying to "eat you alive;" I just think you've made an extraordinary claim without providing extraordinary evidence.

 

The thing is, people have been telling ANet for years: "please take my money" and a lot of the things in the shop right now are exactly the things folks have asked for. Mount skins, insta-L80, insta-waypoints, glider skins up the kazoo, gizmos galore, returning items, etc. It appeals to those with fat wallets _without_ making folks like me (with thin or no wallets) like we're missing out on something important to gameplay (especially since I convert in-game gold to gems). That all sounds to me like the closest a cash shop can get to being fair to customers and still a major revenue source for the publisher.

 

****

 

So, skip everything I've said so far and help me (and others) understand: just what is it exactly that you think might happen that would be bad for the game? I get that you're worried; I just don't understand how the things you have listed translate into the concern you stated in the original post.

 

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

For those of you who know me, I will now come to the defense of, oh my God it's happening... gem store/anet's sleaze.

 

Nothing wrong here.

First off, the ONLY way I will uninstall is if Anet puts Heritage Rewards in Gem store.

 

Moving on. Yes they need money. Yes it is a business. But look at the thread poll of how much ppl spend. I dare think Anet is rather comfy.

 

But my point is this!!!!

Why not?

 

As a firm lover of RNG this still keeps tge oldskool feeling of drops. Instead if todays "grind xyz and i will have x item as a result of attrition" boring!

 

Also some of us do not use TP. How will people like me get GGS without current gamblebox?

 

Again using me as an example I also help the community/inflation with the massive goldsink that is gold to gem conv.

 

The only MAJOR and last OBVIOUS scam was privateer.

 

I was here last month frothing at the mouth over memory boxes, I am not sure how/why my feelings changed.

[inubasiri.8745]

> @Esquilax.3491 said:

> 2000 gems is Saudi prince? Exagerate much? That's an hours work on minimum wage. Most of us work 8 hour days...

 

Minimum wage in which country? Also if you don't have to pay bills.

[savacli.8172]

> @inubasiri.8745 said:

> > @savacli.8172 said:

> > OH MY DWANYA!! I didn't know I could buy ascended gear from the Gem Store??!!!!.....oh wait I can't

> > BUT AT LEAST I CAN BUY LEGENDARY ARMOR......still no

> > SURELY THERE'S EXCLUSIVE RUNES AND SIGILS.......nein

> >

> > As far as I'm concerned there's nothing on the Gem store that is game breaking. Sure you got things like insta-waypoint unlock, boosters, and Mistlock Sanctuary passes, but those are all convenience items and are not in anyway required to be competitive in the game....unless fashion wars is your thing. In which case, be ready to dish out some serious cash.

>

> I haven't been complaining about that either, though. I can't imagine Anet ever selling ascended items on the gemstore. That's going against their philosophy. Despite breaking promises during the first months by actually making ascended items. They've been well implemented.

 

Exactly, at until they decide that direction I don't see the problem in their Gem store practices. As in, everything on the gem store is fancy and flashy but otherwise doesn't give a buyer a mechanical advantage over a player who doesn't buy from the gem store. In short, this post is pointing out a non-issue.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @inubasiri.8745 said:

> > @Chickenooble.5014 said:

> > Making cash-only options would move away from the original model. Making things more expensive but still allowing those expensive options to be purchased with in-game gold doesn't move away from the original model. That's all. And I'm not panicked. You're the one who created some self-righteous thread expressing your opinion for the "maybe future that hasn't happened" as if anyone cared. ;)

>

> Apparently I care for the very least. Enough to post on forums where I expect to be eaten alive by people who might in the future very well flip around and oppose this if it goes beyond what they think of as "okay". But I'll leave that to the future.

 

As long as its cosmetic its not a problem. The benefit is that we get to play for no sub, and its stupidly easy to farm gold to compensate prices. Consider that the populations of mmorpgs get richer over time and so prices inflate , therefore Anet has to raise prices otherwise they would run out of things to sell that we want and the income would dry up - and we would end up paying a sub to compensate.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

What is wrong with whales? Thanks to them I can play the game and pay for it only once per expac.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

Nothnig wong with whales, people confuse whales with rich players in buy to win games and jump to an outdated conclusion that they are a bad thing.

[Zedek.8932]

> > @Esquilax.3491 said:

> > 2000 gems is Saudi prince? Exagerate much? That's an hours work on minimum wage. Most of us work 8 hour days...

>

> Minimum wage in which country? Also if you don't have to pay bills.

 

Excelsior.

Last week I charged 40€ in gems to convert to 560 gold. To buy a skin for a weapon which has the same stats as the weapon I used before.

As department manager I earn enough to get myself some goodies here and there; not everyone in online gaming is "a kid" or works at McDonald's, especially in a mature community like GW2 I have seen many people that reached so many things in life, a career being only one of the those.

 

And I still pay my bills (100% debit anyways) and yet my Asura finally has a real sniper rifle. No harm done to aynone. A guy now has 549 Gold, I treated my the Hunter from the trading post, the weapon deals the same damage as the default rifle I used before (no Pay2Win) and DigitalRiver collected 66% of a full-price game to support this great game.

 

Sounds much, eh? But when I think about the monthly charge for FF14 I paid willingly and nobody actually did the math (plus that game has a cash shop on top of the subscription) I am very, very fine with my decision. Granted, I just play Deadeye, but I also thought twice about it. But with this win-win situation for every party involved I think it's fine.

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

I'm trying to understand why people willing to pay what I deem an exorbitant amount of money for convenience in a game where I can get the same benefits by just investing time negatively impacts me.

 

As long as black lion keys are findable in the world and purchasable with gems, I also have no issue with Hydra skin/Account bound skin tactics.

[Zedek.8932]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> I'm trying to understand why people willing to pay an exorbitant amount of money for convenience in a game where I can get the same benefits by just investing time negatively impacts me.

 

You basically answered the question yourself.

I work full-time, so I am of course at work. I have way to and back from said workplace. I have to shop, to clean my appartment, I have to enjoy the sunlight. I see my family and have other hobbies. Also, I am tired more than a student, part-time worker or "kid". Because I am exhausted faster, I can't play for long or even skip a day or two of gaming. That is my disadvantage.

 

I am all about it being a part of the game, e.g. exploring, something that happens on the fly, but I was not ready to farm RNG stuff to get myself a real sniper rifle for my, duh, Asura Deadeye.

 

You have 5 characters in your signature. I would not have time for that. But I also would not question your decision of having so many characters that you can't even play on at the same time. \ _(° . °)_ /

 

Other people love to grind and switch "other hobbies" with playing GW2, then they can do it. It personally baffles me after the FF14 Zodiac weapon gamble how people are willing to run the same dungeons all over when I can invest 2 hours of work income to have 500+ hours of fun with my new goody?

 

This is how trading works. We all trade. At the supermarket checkout, with data at Facebook. When you offer your labour to your boss/company. We all want, need and provide something different. The guy at the Trading Post selling me the Hunter now has a lot of Gold that he can convert to Gems. Maybe he is a minor and can not charge for gems? Now he can buy himself a goodie for the time he invested to make that thing. And I don't have to make that thing now.

 

You got to change perspective on things, Sir.

Some people will claim they are "losers" on that system, but then, at the same time, they say "it's so easily done ingame". Yeah, then, go ahead?

 

Excelsior.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> I'm trying to understand why people willing to pay what I deem an exorbitant amount of money for convenience in a game where I can get the same benefits by just investing time negatively impacts me.

>

> As long as black lion keys are findable in the world and purchasable with gems, I also have no issue with Hydra skin/Account bound skin tactics.

 

You have time, they have money.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @Zedek.8932 said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

>

> You got to change perspective on things, Sir.

> Some people will claim they are "losers" on that system, but then, at the same time, they say "it's so easily done ingame". Yeah, then, go ahead?

>

> Excelsior.

 

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > I'm trying to understand why people willing to pay what I deem an exorbitant amount of money for convenience in a game where I can get the same benefits by just investing time negatively impacts me.

> >

> > As long as black lion keys are findable in the world and purchasable with gems, I also have no issue with Hydra skin/Account bound skin tactics.

>

> You have time, they have money.

 

I was actually changing perspective, lol. I'll take these as proof that I was doing it properly.

For context, I work as a system admin most of the day. I was trying to imagine being at home without access to gems whenever I fancy and trying to find a drawback that I couldn't offset by just farming.

 

[Gaile Gray.6029]

Hey guys,

 

I want to leave this thread open, but there has been some level of name-calling here. Please feel free to discuss your opinions, but stick to the topic without making any side references to those who feel differently. Thanks.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

 

I think the simple answer to why people buy things for real money is that it gives them pleasure, the same pleasure we get from drinking a nice bottle of wine or going to see a film etc.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

Most of the stuff is insanely overpriced, that's the biggest issue.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

The only concerns I have with the gem store are:

* Items only available in bundles

* * Unless they're clearly and directly related - current mount skin bundle feels ok to me.

* BLC-exclusive account-bound items

* * Unless they are added to something like the Exclusives Chest *soon*.

[inubasiri.8745]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @inubasiri.8745 said:

> > Well they aren't significantly bad for the game now. I said that in the first post. I just don't think going this way is the right direction. As you said: "Clearly it's not tempting to anyone with a thin wallet." And if you read the header...

> It's not clear at all what you find objectionable. That the gem shop has items best suited to people best able to pay, without offering them anything other than convenience or cosmetics? What don't you like about that?

>

Well firstly, that you're not getting the value of the gems for what you got. If the value on gemstore is 2k and you get some 100, then it's obviously not a good deal. You might think it's a good deal as you buy it because you don't see the alternatives that make it cost 100 and not 2000. But later find out that it wasn't.

 

> > Also technically, autoloot is a part of Central Tyria Masteries and those aren't part of the free game, so technically, they aren't "free" free.

> Autolooting is included in the price of purchase if you buy today; they aren't part of the cash shop. In contrast, in BDO, you can't get any form of autolooting without spending extra.

>

Yeah you're right.

 

> > That's the thing, a lot of people, for some reason, believe that I say that the game is wrecked because of these fringe items.

> I don't think you're saying it's wrecked, I think you're claiming it's heading in the wrong direction. But I can't figure out why you think that.

>

Well because some things changed in that direction. There weren't account bound BLC items (if you ignore the 600g? item that can get you those things). Home instance nodes didn't have arbitrarily set scarcity and were all equally supplied by the BLC, etc.

 

> > Well I don't, I just think that this is the wrong way and eventually, two years ahead maybe, if this persists, it would start becoming significantly bad.

> Maybe you can clarify then: what would the game look like (maybe) in two years _if it goes in the direction that you see_ so that it would be bad? I'm really not trying to "eat you alive;" I just think you've made an extraordinary claim without providing extraordinary evidence.

>

> The thing is, people have been telling ANet for years: "please take my money" and a lot of the things in the shop right now are exactly the things folks have asked for. Mount skins, insta-L80, insta-waypoints, glider skins up the kazoo, gizmos galore, returning items, etc. It appeals to those with fat wallets _without_ making folks like me (with thin or no wallets) like we're missing out on something important to gameplay (especially since I convert in-game gold to gems). That all sounds to me like the closest a cash shop can get to being fair to customers and still a major revenue source for the publisher.

>

> ****

>

> So, skip everything I've said so far and help me (and others) understand: just what is it exactly that you think might happen that would be bad for the game? I get that you're worried; I just don't understand how the things you have listed translate into the concern you stated in the original post.

>

I'll try: I don't mind if Anet allows us to buy things that someone cried for in forums. That's fine and as long as they slap "idk let's make it cost 2k gems" random value, then that's okay, good even, because they did what the community wanted. If it's malicious intent, then that's not good, obviously. The 2k gem items can be either way, that's the point.

 

The nodes are problematic. I can see that Anet has a schedule for releasing 2 nodes at a time. But that's creating artificial scarcity for the items, by changing the way they're introduced to the system.

 

With account bound box drops, you either don't care about them and open boxes and get one of them or don't and you don't really care. Or you want the item and try to get it somehow and either spend 6x more than regular fashion item or are lucky with keys. That's basically outright loot box system, which is whaley. If there are more and more such items in the future, well...