Gemstore slowly becoming whale friendly

[usnedward.9023]

 

> How is that an argument? You can technically ignore or bypass the whole gemstore. I'm arguing against items that are not worth their cost in gems and / or that force you to buy something you don't want to get them.

 

Long thread so if repeated... my bad. YOU ARE NOT FORCED TO BUY ANYTHING!

[zealex.9410]

> @Vyrulisse.1246 said:

> Most of the stuff is insanely overpriced, that's the biggest issue.

 

Nah the prices here are relatively fine.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

> @zealex.9410 said:

> > @Vyrulisse.1246 said:

> > Most of the stuff is insanely overpriced, that's the biggest issue.

>

> Nah the prices here are relatively fine.

 

When special gathering tools cost more than an expansion account then that's overpriced.

[usnedward.9023]

 

> Well yes, but that's why I'm calling it "becoming whale friendly". If you target something outright at people with excess (real - ingame is fine) money, it is inherently promoting this behavior. "Scam" is the one part comparing what you pay to what you get, where what you get is much less than what you pay. I understand the time and starting condition, but it in time turns out to be scam-ish, even if it looks like a good deal at the start.

 

You do realize Gold for Gems? It is why I have no gold. ANET comes out with some cool glider skins and such and I trade gold for gems and get said cool stuff. Do I spend cash? Yep...sometimes it's so cool I have no gold so I throw them a bone and buy gems to get mah stuffs. If someone can't afford the gems that is not your, mine or ANETs fault. There are ways around cash for gems.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @joshc.3129 said:

> Off subject. I don't know who was the first to start calling people who don't have a problem buying in game items via real world money "whales" but can we not start using it so it doesn't stay around. Please? It sounds like something a 13 year old would be screaming at the top of his lungs into his headset when he sees a player with something fancy.

 

WHALE DETECTED!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. Sounds idiotic.

[usnedward.9023]

> @Vyrulisse.1246 said:

> > @zealex.9410 said:

> > > @Vyrulisse.1246 said:

> > > Most of the stuff is insanely overpriced, that's the biggest issue.

> >

> > Nah the prices here are relatively fine.

>

> When special gathering tools cost more than an expansion account then that's overpriced.

 

Nope. It's not a necessity to advance the game. PLUS they have sales on these items. Save up the gems and wait for sales. I saved like 3200 gems off the cost during a sale (whatever the cash value of that is) to get all my shared inventory I need. Not too bad :P

[Chadramar.8156]

"Whale" is the term used by microtransaction-peddlers to describe big spenders. It's not an insult that some snot-nosed brat came up with because he was jealous of some other person having more bling-bling, it's actually how the people who push lootboxes and gambling view their "customers": as whales, dolphins, or minnows. It's pretty damn telling.

 

IMO it's always good to be _extremely_ critical of microtransactions, because so much of it is so deeply unethical and explicitly designed to prey on children and people with addiction-prone personalities, which is as vile as it gets. I recommend Jim Sterling's many videos on this issue (and others). And while I do think microtransactions in general can be done with decency, gambling is always suspect at best.

 

Support a company and game you like? Sure. But never uncritically. There are some definitely disturbing trends in how the game industry is changing. "They need to make money _somehow_" is not an argument because it sounds as if we're talking about starving minimum-wagers, not an industry that makes obscene amounts of money.

[joshc.3129]

> @Chadramar.8156 said:

> "Whale" is the term used by microtransaction-peddlers to describe big spenders. It's not an insult that some snot-nosed brat came up with because he was jealous of some other person having more bling-bling, it's actually how the people who push lootboxes and gambling view their "customers": as whales, dolphins, or minnows. It's pretty kitten telling.

>

> IMO it's always good to be _extremely_ critical of microtransactions, because so much of it is so deeply unethical and explicitly designed to prey on children and people with addiction-prone personalities, which is as vile as it gets. I recommend Jim Sterling's many videos on this issue (and others). And while I do think microtransactions in general can be done with decency, gambling is always suspect at best.

>

> Support a company and game you like? Sure. But never uncritically. There are some definitely disturbing trends in how the game industry is changing. "They need to make money _somehow_" is not an argument because it sounds as if we're talking about starving minimum-wagers, not an industry that makes obscene amounts of money.

 

Honestly I never heard the term until I watch Jim Sterling's new video today and my first thought was "Holy crap that just sounds stupid", came here and saw someone using it and thought "oh crap it's actually catching on".

 

Yes some of the items in the gem store I can see as being over priced but out of all the online games I have played GW2 seems to have the most balanced "cash shop" where the items have a good track record of being fairly priced. As many have said let's not forget the Gold to Gems option. Most games don't have this kind of option and the few that do were you can earn special currency to use in the cash shop, the cost of what ever you want using the special currency is usually really high and earning this special currency is usually so time consuming it comes off more as a in-game joke towards players that don't just want to use real world money.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @Chadramar.8156 said:

> "Whale" is the term used by microtransaction-peddlers to describe big spenders. It's not an insult that some snot-nosed brat came up with because he was jealous of some other person having more bling-bling, it's actually how the people who push lootboxes and gambling view their "customers": as whales, dolphins, or minnows. It's pretty kitten telling.

>

> IMO it's always good to be _extremely_ critical of microtransactions, because so much of it is so deeply unethical and explicitly designed to prey on children and people with addiction-prone personalities, which is as vile as it gets. I recommend Jim Sterling's many videos on this issue (and others). And while I do think microtransactions in general can be done with decency, gambling is always suspect at best.

>

> Support a company and game you like? Sure. But never uncritically. There are some definitely disturbing trends in how the game industry is changing. "They need to make money _somehow_" is not an argument because it sounds as if we're talking about starving minimum-wagers, not an industry that makes obscene amounts of money.

 

To add; friendly reminder that vidya roughly makes more than hollywood.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @Drew.1865 said:

> The 20+ transmutation charges I’ve gotten free from doing wvw disagree with you OP and make me think Anet is pretty generous. This game is a business for Anet to make profit. I don’t like gambling so I don’t gamble.

 

I can even get 5 of them in like 90 minutes, so yes. Really generous on those.

[joshc.3129]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > @Chadramar.8156 said:

> > because so much of it is so deeply unethical and explicitly designed to prey on children and people with addiction-prone personalities

 

How do they prey on children, when children tend to not have money and if they do tend to not have a way to pay for stuff online? When it comes to that, that is their parents responsibility to not enter their CC/debit card info every time their kid wants something or always allow their kid to use their card if it's already attach to their account.

 

As for loot boxes being a form of gambling, yes I agree with that but when it comes to Black Lion Chests I wouldn't really compare them to loot boxes in other games since basically everything that can drop from a Black Lion Chest with the exception of a few things can just be bought off the trading post. Even when new weapon skins come out, if they aren't account bound you can find them all for sale on the trading post the same day they come out. The prices that the items are being sold for is a different subject.

 

If you all want to say the Black Lion Chests are loot boxes (and yes they are) then unidentified dyes and those special dyes (Mad King Dyes, Flame Dyes and so on) along with other items would also be loot boxes since you never know what you are going to get.

 

[Faaris.8013]

> @Swagger.1459 said:

> If your answer is yes, then Anet needs to make money to create all those nice things...

 

And again that generic answer that could be used to excuse every decision every company has ever made. Yes, a company needs to make money, but really by all means? The question here is not that ArenaNet needs to make money to pay its employees. There is a reason why they made the 2nd generation legendary weapons account bound. They could probably make a lot of quick money if they changed that and sold them on the gemstore. Why not, "Anet needs to make money to create all those nice things", right? There is more to decision-making than profit, especially short-term profit, for every company (besides pharmaceutics, investment banking, oil industry and FIFA)

 

I'm not saying what ArenaNet does with the gemstore is bad or unhealthy, at least you cannot accidentally click on a button while playing the game and involuntarily use up gems, like in other games. ArenaNet does a lot of things right, and it's also on the players' to keep it that way. That's why I gave a thumbs up to inubasiri's post and support it. At some point the general public will pay more attention to how gambling exists in MMO games and ask for regulation. Right now, things like Black Lion Chests are under the radar of regulation, and I wished ArenaNet would do the right thing and remove them from the game before external regulators have to intervene.

 

> @Swagger.1459 said:

> You obviously have zero understanding how businesses work.

 

I think inubasiri has a better sense of how long term business where everybody wins works than you do.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

I personally really don't mind the Cash Shop as it is. If someone wants to dump his/her money in there then that's great - hopefully that'll help keep the game running and improving.

What's important to me is, that fashion wars doesn't become dependent on the cash shop as in - I hope nice looking new armorsets will not be limited to cash shop. I don't care about outfits at all and I which they'd create Armor sets instead but that's a different topic.

I agree that account bound skins locked behind rng is a terrible idea especially for me, I've never gotten anything out of a BL Chest that is NOT in the first (Common) Cathegory.

 

The only things I would buy are QoL things like storage, bag slots, bank slots, shared slots and nice Armor Sets. And I once bought the unbound gathering tools and the watchwork pickaxe - which are amazing. (I've bought a few other things as well but only very rarely when I have gold to spare)

[Faaris.8013]

> @joshc.3129 said:

> As for loot boxes being a form of gambling, yes I agree with that but when it comes to Black Lion Chests I wouldn't really compare them to loot boxes in other games since basically everything that can drop from a Black Lion Chest with the exception of a few things can just be bought off the trading post. Even when new weapon skins come out, if they aren't account bound you can find them all for sale on the trading post the same day they come out. The prices that the items are being sold for is a different subject.

 

Not sure, I would really like to have that Jackal pup backpack. When I saw it and asked which quest I have to do, I was a bit disappointed to hear that it's a BLC drop only. My buddy was lucky and got it with 4 keys he farmed with the level 10 personal story part.

 

I'm not a gambler at all, but even I considered buying a few keys. I haven't done so and I won't, but I'm pretty sure people that are more predisposed to gambling would certainly draw their credit card. It is tempting, and I would love to see the numbers ArenaNet has about players that bought keys after introduction of the pup (for example) and stopped after the item they wanted dropped. Black Lion Chests are aimed at gamblers, they use incentives that trigger gambling behaviour. I would pay 10 bucks for the pup, but I won't gamble. I'll get keys while doing the story with my other characters, and if I don't get it, well, fine. At least I'll know how much money I saved if it doesn't drop after using 10 or 20 keys.

[Swagger.1459]

@"Faaris.8013" You quoted the wrong person my friend. Get some coffee in ya first, then come back to the forums. ;)

[Faaris.8013]

> @Swagger.1459 said:

> @"Faaris.8013" You quoted the wrong person my friend. Get some coffee in ya first, then come back to the forums. ;)

 

sorry, corrected it. Looks like another quote was saved and I deleted the lines below the first one, which resulted in a wrong quote.

[Vayne.8563]

> @inubasiri.8745 said:

> > @Vayne.8563 said:

> > See, the thing to me is that home instance nodes were always meant to be hard to get items to begin with. Stuff for the high rollers to buy. It's not a problem because everything from those nodes you can easily get in the open world. Waypoint unlock packs were meant for people who HATE going through the open world. It's not worth it with mounts. The OP sites this as a problem. The point is, if it was worth it, people would call the game pay to win.

> >

> > That's always been the problem. Anything that you remotely have to get from the gem store is something that people will call pay to win. Most of the stuff in the gem store isn't worth it, unless you have extra money.

> >

> > But remember, a percentage of the playerbase has a ton of gold. So if you're one of those people, who can instantly turn gold to gems, you can buy everything anyway. To me, the cash shop was meant to be about people paying cash for stuff to support the game, which I do, because I know games need the support.

> >

> > This is a non-argument.

> >

> > The only thing I agree with is the RNG skins in BLC chests. That annoys me some.

>

> I'd just like to point out with the nodes that there's "hard to get" and there's "unavailable until Anet decides to put them back in".

 

So I have everything but two nodes. And do you know how much my game will suffer if I have neither the iron node nor the hardwood node? Not at all. This is just a non-issue. It's a gold sink for rich players. It remains a gold sink because the scarcity level is maintained.

[Daedalus Palamaon.8934]

Maybe its just me - but I really don't see a problem with it. Everything you mentioned are quality of life items... which have 0 impact on your performance in the game. They don't sell armour/weapons, or trinkets/accessories. Hell they don't even sell you things to farm them easily (although the inf gathering tools are awesome). I think your point is further moot by the fact that if you wanted to you can SHARE then between all your characters. I spend some money here and there (mostly for shared bag space and extra bag space) - but recently I put down about $100 just so I can buy the copper+silver breakers of items, infinite gathering tools, and a couple of other items that I can share between all my alts... It isn't like I couldn't play the game before - now it just makes it easier at times.

 

I kittening hate... with a passion... microtransactions - but Arenanet seems to not blip on my radar compared to other creators. Mostly because everything they do is a microtransaction for cosmetics or QoL. So I really do not know what else to say?

[Mea.5491]

So what? Like I always say: some people buy cigarette, drugs and alcohol... I buy pixels. It's my money, I love this game and I do what I want. -makes whale sounds-

 

Edit: typo.

[JSmooth.7654]

I'm totally okay with GW2 having a gem store to sell convenience items and cosmetics. But, I disagree with the pricing of some items. For example, the super basic Unbreakable tools package is $30 worth of gems. The basic PoF expansion price is also $30. Since these items are the same price, one could logically assume that ANet considers an entire expansion's worth of content and the basic Unbreakable tools package to be of roughly equal value. But, I don't think they have the same value at all; not even close.

 

If we follow this line of thinking...

Either the expansion is under-priced. (probably)

Or, the tools package is way over-priced. (most definitely)

Or, possibly both things are true.

 

You could make the argument that no-one wants ANet to increase the cost of expansions. However, if they raised the price, I argue that ANet should in-turn lower the cost of simple gem store items. (which is never going to happen anyways)

 

In the meantime, I can't justify spending $30 or more for tools. So, I will slowly grind out my gold to gems out of principle. I wouldn't buy WoW's sparkle pony for $20. And I won't buy ANet's tools for $30. I want to buy a bunch of items from Anet's cash shop. But, IMO, the current prices are unreasonable.

[Ashantara.8731]

**Re: Black Lion Chests**

 

The only issue I have with BLCs is the change that was implement last year. Before that, one had a fair chance of getting even super rare dops (examples: see screenshots below). Now, you don't even get a reasonable chance at the unique uncommon skins (I always open about 25-30 chests at once, by the way).

 

I want ANet to reconsider changing the system back to the way it was before last year's big nerf (when they introduced those guaranteed drops that take up one slot no matter what, making special items an _ever rarer_ fourth slot drop that is "uncommon" most of the time, so forget about the rare ones). :/

 



[Lambent.6375]

I'm more concorned about item cost, and how long we have to purchase it. (This is concerning people why buy gems with cash)

 

If you want both the foefire set,and mount skins you either have to shell out around $40 before they get removed, or wait possibly an entire year from them to come back again

[dusanyu.4057]

i will LOL if Anet makes the rare item in the next BLC update a Mini Whale

[DarcShriek.5829]

"Gemstore slowly becoming whale friendly"

 

You say that like it's a bad thing. The term comes from the gaming industry. It is used to describe players that drop millions of dollars gambling. Nowadays it used to describe players that spend lots of money on micro transactions. There's nothing wrong with appealing to your best customers.

[Chadramar.8156]

(Whoops. Sorry for the double-post.)