mastery points should be available in the gemstore

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > Nah, the reasons I listed are further up and yes they incorporate more than just what has been sold but also actual in game cause and effect, which we as players have been able to perceive. Notice that my reasons are not cherry picked and do NOT in fact bend and redefine how I define things. That's what you are doing when arguing similarity in progression.

>

> I'm just bringing you back here. The differences provided for why MP's can't be sold provided so far are 'endgame' and 'account-wide' ... what is it about endgame and account-wide exclude MP's from being sold on the GS?

 

 

 

Simple: it hasn't been done so far and recent new implementations have always favored character based upgrades in all regards.

 

I am not saying it can't be done technically. I am saying it shouldn't be done and there has been no precedent to implementing such sales so far.

 

Also I am not the one who has to substantiate his claim. I am in favor of status quo here: no sale of items which have no been sold so far.

 

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> I've explained why I think those 'differences' are either 1) not actually different from currently sold progression elements and 2) not a barrier to Anet selling MP's. That's where we are at.

 

1. they are vastly different if one looks at it objectively, especially in ability to monetize.

 

So we are to the actual reality here:

Your OPINION is that selling mastery points or other types of account upgrades on the gem store is not vastly different to previous items sold. An opinion which has you squeeze both eyes half way to somehow make work.

 

Meanwhile other shave a differing opinion. That this IS in fact a new step and a step forward in a direction we do not want. Again an opinion but in this case one just as valid as your, only opposing.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > Nah, the reasons I listed are further up and yes they incorporate more than just what has been sold but also actual in game cause and effect, which we as players have been able to perceive. Notice that my reasons are not cherry picked and do NOT in fact bend and redefine how I define things. That's what you are doing when arguing similarity in progression.

> >

> > I'm just bringing you back here. The differences provided for why MP's can't be sold provided so far are 'endgame' and 'account-wide' ... what is it about endgame and account-wide exclude MP's from being sold on the GS?

>

> Simple: it hasn't been done so far and recent new implementations have always favored character based upgrades in all regards.

>

> I am not saying it can't be done technically. I am saying it shouldn't be done and there has been no precedent to implementing such sales so far.

 

Something 'not been done so far' isn't a reason for Anet to not sell progression ... In fact, when Anet started selling 80 boosts, it hadn't been done so far either ... yet they did it ... so that reason is clearly invalid.

 

Character and account based progression being different isn't a reason ... that doesn't explain WHY we have to exclude account based progression.

 

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > I've explained why I think those 'differences' are either 1) not actually different from currently sold progression elements and 2) not a barrier to Anet selling MP's. That's where we are at.

>

> 1. they are vastly different if one looks at it objectively, especially in ability to monetize.

 

OK they are different ... so why does that lead us to believe it's a reason to not do it?

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > Nah, the reasons I listed are further up and yes they incorporate more than just what has been sold but also actual in game cause and effect, which we as players have been able to perceive. Notice that my reasons are not cherry picked and do NOT in fact bend and redefine how I define things. That's what you are doing when arguing similarity in progression.

> > >

> > > I'm just bringing you back here. The differences provided for why MP's can't be sold provided so far are 'endgame' and 'account-wide' ... what is it about endgame and account-wide exclude MP's from being sold on the GS?

> >

> > Simple: it hasn't been done so far and recent new implementations have always favored character based upgrades in all regards.

> >

> > I am not saying it can't be done technically. I am saying it shouldn't be done and there has been no precedent to implementing such sales so far.

>

> Something 'not been done so far' isn't a reason for Anet to not sell progression ... In fact, when Anet started selling 80 boosts, it hadn't been done so far either ... yet they did it ... so that reason is clearly invalid.

>

> Character and account based progression being different isn't a reason ... that doesn't explain WHY we have to exclude account based progression.

 

Ah, so suddenly precedent does NOT matter. Got you.

 

Everyone here is well aware that new things CAN be sold. Many are opposed in this thread. You were one of the few arguing that precedent invalidates all those opinions. Now we have gone full circle and you finally claim that precedent means diddly squat.

 

Character and account progression are valid reasons, especially given they directly affect monetization. You were the one to bring this up, I simply obliged.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > Nah, the reasons I listed are further up and yes they incorporate more than just what has been sold but also actual in game cause and effect, which we as players have been able to perceive. Notice that my reasons are not cherry picked and do NOT in fact bend and redefine how I define things. That's what you are doing when arguing similarity in progression.

> > > >

> > > > I'm just bringing you back here. The differences provided for why MP's can't be sold provided so far are 'endgame' and 'account-wide' ... what is it about endgame and account-wide exclude MP's from being sold on the GS?

> > >

> > > Simple: it hasn't been done so far and recent new implementations have always favored character based upgrades in all regards.

> > >

> > > I am not saying it can't be done technically. I am saying it shouldn't be done and there has been no precedent to implementing such sales so far.

> >

> > Something 'not been done so far' isn't a reason for Anet to not sell progression ... In fact, when Anet started selling 80 boosts, it hadn't been done so far either ... yet they did it ... so that reason is clearly invalid.

> >

> > Character and account based progression being different isn't a reason ... that doesn't explain WHY we have to exclude account based progression.

>

> Ah, so suddenly precedent does NOT matter. Got you.

 

There was no event or activity that occured that establishes Anet won't sell progression ... in fact quite the opposite ... so no, there isn't a precedent for Anet NOT selling progression. Clearly you think precedents are set by the absense of events/activities .. that's not the case.

 

So let's get back to the question: Character and account based progression being different isn't a reason ... that doesn't explain WHY we have to exclude account based progression as sellable.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> Character and account progression are valid reasons, especially given they directly affect monetization.

 

You're going to have elaborate here ... how is the "direct affect on monetization" (whatever that means) EXCLUDE account based progression from sale but not character based?

 

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > Character and account progression are valid reasons, especially given they directly affect monetization.

>

> You're going to have elaborate here ... how is the "direct affect on monetization" (whatever that means) EXCLUDE account based progression from sale but not character based?

 

They are vastly different in how much they can be monetized. One scales (from a monetization perspective) with characters made, deleted, owned and the players desire to spend money on those characters as well as affect other in game considerations. The other is a flat 1 time sale and does not scale (from a monetization perspective) with characters owned because it affects the entire account, and in this case progression on all characters. That is a huge difference as far as monetization potential and makes these 2 vastly different and disqualifies the former from comparison to the later.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > Character and account progression are valid reasons, especially given they directly affect monetization.

> >

> > You're going to have elaborate here ... how is the "direct affect on monetization" (whatever that means) EXCLUDE account based progression from sale but not character based?

>

> They are vastly different in how much they can be monetized. One scales (from a monetization perspective) with characters made, deleted, owned and the players desire to spend money on those characters as well as affect other in game considerations. The other is a flat 1 time sale and does not scale (from a monetization perspective) with characters owned because it affects the entire account, and in this case progression on all characters. That is a huge difference as far as monetization potential and makes these 2 vastly different and disqualifies the former from comparison to the later.

 

Except Anet already sells account wide upgrades so clearly the scale of account vs. character based monetization differences isn't a problem for them and it's definitely not excluding things to be sold as they have done so for many years.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > Character and account progression are valid reasons, especially given they directly affect monetization.

> > >

> > > You're going to have elaborate here ... how is the "direct affect on monetization" (whatever that means) EXCLUDE account based progression from sale but not character based?

> >

> > They are vastly different in how much they can be monetized. One scales (from a monetization perspective) with characters made, deleted, owned and the players desire to spend money on those characters as well as affect other in game considerations. The other is a flat 1 time sale and does not scale (from a monetization perspective) with characters owned because it affects the entire account, and in this case progression on all characters. That is a huge difference as far as monetization potential and makes these 2 vastly different and disqualifies the former from comparison to the later.

>

> Except Anet already sells account wide upgrades so clearly the scale of account vs. character based monetization differences isn't a problem for them and it's definitely not excluding things to be sold as they have done so for many years.

 

Yes, but not account wide progression. Remember, this is about character progression? They are not selling account wide character progression and you were very adamant that the precedent was essential as argumentative backbone that all other opinions do not matter.

 

So feel free to give your OPINION on if they should now start selling account wide progression or not, given they have not so far, as will all the rest of us. That's how discussions work.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > Character and account progression are valid reasons, especially given they directly affect monetization.

> > > >

> > > > You're going to have elaborate here ... how is the "direct affect on monetization" (whatever that means) EXCLUDE account based progression from sale but not character based?

> > >

> > > They are vastly different in how much they can be monetized. One scales (from a monetization perspective) with characters made, deleted, owned and the players desire to spend money on those characters as well as affect other in game considerations. The other is a flat 1 time sale and does not scale (from a monetization perspective) with characters owned because it affects the entire account, and in this case progression on all characters. That is a huge difference as far as monetization potential and makes these 2 vastly different and disqualifies the former from comparison to the later.

> >

> > Except Anet already sells account wide upgrades so clearly the scale of account vs. character based monetization differences isn't a problem for them and it's definitely not excluding things to be sold as they have done so for many years.

>

> Yes, but not account wide progression.

 

So you are saying the combination of account wide and progression is a barrier to Anet figuring out how to monetize selling MP's? Can to elaborate on that because frankly, I don't see the problem ... If anything, Anet have the background and experience how to properly monetize BOTH progression elements AND account wide items.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> In fact, when Anet started selling 80 boosts, it hadn't been done so far either ... yet they did it ... so that reason is clearly invalid.

 

The level 80 boost was added to the gem store on August 2017 in preparation for the launch of the Path of Fire expansion. The reason for such a boost in the first place is to skip the old parts of the game (the FREE parts) and direct new players (or old players on new characters) to the latest content available (that is SOLD), which is only available to level 80 characters. It's why a similar booster was given for anyone purchasing Heart of Thorns since April 2016, that was one booster, applicable on one character alone.

 

The reason "they haven't done it so far" isn't valid, but there was a valid monetization reason to add level 80 boosts. What's the similar reason to add Mastery Points on the gem store?

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > > Character and account progression are valid reasons, especially given they directly affect monetization.

> > > > >

> > > > > You're going to have elaborate here ... how is the "direct affect on monetization" (whatever that means) EXCLUDE account based progression from sale but not character based?

> > > >

> > > > They are vastly different in how much they can be monetized. One scales (from a monetization perspective) with characters made, deleted, owned and the players desire to spend money on those characters as well as affect other in game considerations. The other is a flat 1 time sale and does not scale (from a monetization perspective) with characters owned because it affects the entire account, and in this case progression on all characters. That is a huge difference as far as monetization potential and makes these 2 vastly different and disqualifies the former from comparison to the later.

> > >

> > > Except Anet already sells account wide upgrades so clearly the scale of account vs. character based monetization differences isn't a problem for them and it's definitely not excluding things to be sold as they have done so for many years.

> >

> > Yes, but not account wide progression.

>

> So you are saying the combination of account wide and progress is a barrier to Anet figuring out how to monetize selling MP's? Can to eloborate on that because frankly, I don't see the problem ... If anything, Anet have the background and experience how to properly monetize BOTH progression elements AND account wide items.

 

No, I am saying your argument that all other OPINIONS on this matter are irrelevant has put you in a catch 22 where now you need to face the reality that your own definition of required precedent makes your argument invalid and in fact only an opinion.

 

The argument put forth was:

There is already character based progression sold, as such this is a precedent for more progression being sold. Fair enough.

 

I am now claiming that there is a significant difference, especially from a monetizable scalability, in character and account affecting items and the later was not yet sold. As such there is no precedent for this vastly different, again not only game play wise, but also monetization wise, new element.

 

Could Arenanet work around that? Sure. Are there other solutions and changes which could be made? Absolutely. Would all of that matter in this specific case? No because this thread is about the sale of mastery points as are right now, as part of an account wide character progression system. So all of those "could be" and "should be" and "might be" matter not.

[Chyanne Waters.8719]

Well I realize this idea is by regular MMO standards is very controversial, and for a older generation MMO it is. This is a new generation of MMO that was never done before. Some good examples of the things Anet has done are first, Making the core game free to try [still free if you get the expansion or both of them]. The next thing was because the expansions required a level 80 character they gave everyone a level 80 boost for each expansion, they were not available in the gem store for a while after that. Next thing they did impressed me a lot. Anet made it so players could purchase Path of Fire, and get Heart of Thorns with core game free. What MMO developer does this?

 

Anet has a great game in Guild Wars which they wanted to improve for the existing population, but couldn't because the GW game engine was too old. So they set out to make a new game Guild Wars 2. Along with Eye of the North, and the Hall of Monuments to tie GW and GW2 together.

 

Now Anet sells things like Level 80 boosts, waypoint unlocks and other things in the gem store, they do not hurt progression in any way. The Mastery points are the same in this game sometimes easy to get some times a pain to get. So if you can purchase them from the gem store or trade them for certain items in game that will take away some of the things you may not like doing in game. Of course if you like the way it's set up you can do it that way too.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> I am now claiming that there is a significant difference, especially from a magnetizable scalability, in character and account affecting items and the later was not yet sold. As such there is no precedent for this vastly different, again not only game play wise, but also monetization wise, new element.

 

Except Anet has already figured out how to monetize BOTH account wide AND progressive elements and there isn't a reason to think they couldn't use that combined knowledge to do the same for a account wide AND progressive element. Frankly, putting a price on these things isn't a reason to exclude them from sale, just like putting a price on ANYTHING in the GS hasn't prevented the offerings that exist in the GS.

 

Maybe your concern is that the price would be wrong? I mean, what's the right price? How do you know? Why is offering it at the 'wrong' price an exclusive factor to sell MP/s?

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > I am now claiming that there is a significant difference, especially from a magnetizable scalability, in character and account affecting items and the later was not yet sold. As such there is no precedent for this vastly different, again not only game play wise, but also monetization wise, new element.

>

> Except Anet has already figured out how to monetize BOTH account wide AND progressive elements and there isn't a reason to think they couldn't use that combined knowledge to do the same for a account wide AND progressive element. Frankly, putting a price on these things isn't a reason to exclude them from sale, just like putting a price on ANYTHING in the GS hasn't prevented the offerings that exist in the GS.

 

Sure, doesn't matter though IF they can do it. That is not the issue here. The argument is: they haven't so far.

 

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Maybe your concern is that the price would be wrong? I mean, what's the right price? How do you know? Why is offering it at the 'wrong' price an exclusive factor to sell MP/s?

 

Nope, don't care about the price. Literally only care about if it has been done yet going by the rules you set forth earlier.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > I am now claiming that there is a significant difference, especially from a magnetizable scalability, in character and account affecting items and the later was not yet sold. As such there is no precedent for this vastly different, again not only game play wise, but also monetization wise, new element.

> >

> > Except Anet has already figured out how to monetize BOTH account wide AND progressive elements and there isn't a reason to think they couldn't use that combined knowledge to do the same for a account wide AND progressive element. Frankly, putting a price on these things isn't a reason to exclude them from sale, just like putting a price on ANYTHING in the GS hasn't prevented the offerings that exist in the GS.

>

> Sure, doesn't matter though IF they can do it. That is not the issue here. The argument is: they haven't so far.

 

So you're saying ... Anet can't offer MP's for sale ... because they haven't so far? That doesn't make sense ... it doesn't exclude them from the possibility they are for sale, which is what is being discussed here.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > I am now claiming that there is a significant difference, especially from a magnetizable scalability, in character and account affecting items and the later was not yet sold. As such there is no precedent for this vastly different, again not only game play wise, but also monetization wise, new element.

> > >

> > > Except Anet has already figured out how to monetize BOTH account wide AND progressive elements and there isn't a reason to think they couldn't use that combined knowledge to do the same for a account wide AND progressive element. Frankly, putting a price on these things isn't a reason to exclude them from sale, just like putting a price on ANYTHING in the GS hasn't prevented the offerings that exist in the GS.

> >

> > Sure, doesn't matter though IF they can do it. That is not the issue here. The argument is: they haven't so far.

>

> So you're saying ... Anet can't offer MP's for sale ... because they haven't so far? That doesn't exclude them from the possibility they are for sale, which is what is being discussed here.

 

No, I am saying your argument that they should or could without any regard for other arguments is invalid since by your own definition, there has not been precedent.

 

Don't change the subject. Everyone is well aware the developer can do what every they want and they have the ability to do what ever they want. That is not the issue here.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > I am now claiming that there is a significant difference, especially from a magnetizable scalability, in character and account affecting items and the later was not yet sold. As such there is no precedent for this vastly different, again not only game play wise, but also monetization wise, new element.

> > > >

> > > > Except Anet has already figured out how to monetize BOTH account wide AND progressive elements and there isn't a reason to think they couldn't use that combined knowledge to do the same for a account wide AND progressive element. Frankly, putting a price on these things isn't a reason to exclude them from sale, just like putting a price on ANYTHING in the GS hasn't prevented the offerings that exist in the GS.

> > >

> > > Sure, doesn't matter though IF they can do it. That is not the issue here. The argument is: they haven't so far.

> >

> > So you're saying ... Anet can't offer MP's for sale ... because they haven't so far? That doesn't exclude them from the possibility they are for sale, which is what is being discussed here.

 

> Don;t change the subject.

 

No one is changing the subject. You are claiming Anet can't monetize a GS item that is BOTH account wide and progressive as a reason they shouldn't sell MP's. I don't see why they couldn't based on their experience of selling account wide and progressive items ... you have the chance to elaborate on that claim to defend it. That's pretty on topic if you ask me

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > > I am now claiming that there is a significant difference, especially from a magnetizable scalability, in character and account affecting items and the later was not yet sold. As such there is no precedent for this vastly different, again not only game play wise, but also monetization wise, new element.

> > > > >

> > > > > Except Anet has already figured out how to monetize BOTH account wide AND progressive elements and there isn't a reason to think they couldn't use that combined knowledge to do the same for a account wide AND progressive element. Frankly, putting a price on these things isn't a reason to exclude them from sale, just like putting a price on ANYTHING in the GS hasn't prevented the offerings that exist in the GS.

> > > >

> > > > Sure, doesn't matter though IF they can do it. That is not the issue here. The argument is: they haven't so far.

> > >

> > > So you're saying ... Anet can't offer MP's for sale ... because they haven't so far? That doesn't exclude them from the possibility they are for sale, which is what is being discussed here.

>

> > Don;t change the subject.

>

> No one is changing the subject. You are claiming Anet can't monetize a GS item that is BOTH account wide and progressive as a reason they can't sell MP's. I don't see why they couldn't. I don't see why they couldn't based on their experience of selling account wide and progressive items ... you have the chance to elaborate on that claim to defend it. That's pretty on topic if you ask me.

 

No, I am claiming that the basis on which you argued that they should or could sell account progression with the claim that there has been past precedent and thus all other arguments are invalid is faulty.

 

I mean sure, we can open this up to discussion and just make it simple:

- you have your OPINION on what the developers should or could sell, based in part on similar items sold on the gem store.

- other players have OPINIONS on what should or should not be sold based on what ever reasoning they decide to put forth.

 

Because at it stand now, you have no basis to call any other opinions invalid.

 

I've elaborated and entertained you enough. I think by now it's very clear that you only accept your own opinion and decide to stretch and bend the rules you set forth as you see fit. Has there been account wide items sold? Yes. Were any of those progression based thus affecting game play? No. Have there been character progression elements sold? Not endgame but yes. Where they account wide? No. Is there thus precedent for account wide character progression being sold with all its benefits AND detriments? NO! Good enough summary for me.

[Obtena.7952]

Well, let's hold on here: You just said this:

 

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

>Everyone is well aware the developer can do what every they want and they have the ability to do what ever they want.

 

I mean, if Anet can do whatever they want, then monetizing a GS item that is BOTH progressive and accountwide is actually NOT a barrier to Anet offering MP's for sale, contrary to your claim. Great.

 

> Is there thus precedent for account wide character progression being sold with all its benefits AND detriments? NO!

 

There doesn't need to be a precedent for Anet to sell account wide character progression for them to do it ... but the fact that there is precedent of selling account wide upgrades and progression elements does exclude opinions Anet can't sell progression elements that are account wide.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Well, let's hold on here: You just said this:

>

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> >Everyone is well aware the developer can do what every they want and they have the ability to do what ever they want.

>

> I mean, if Anet can do whatever they want, then monetizing a GS item that is BOTH progressive and accountwide is actually NOT a barrier to Anet offering MP's for sale, contrary to your claim. Great.

>

 

Yes, but that was never up for debate here. Their ability to do something was never being argued or questioned. The argument always revolved around what pros and cons this implementation would have, until you declared all those opinions invalid.

 

That is unless you just spent multiple pages explaining to all of us that the developers are able to do what they want with their game. In which case I have to say: thanks for sharing, but I believe most of us know what a developer can or can not do and were arguing about what we believe they should or should not do, which is as much as we can affect any of this, if at all.

 

Oh and in case it;s the later, in the future, just keep it short and claim: "it's the developers game, they can do what they want". Cut all the other stuff out because that argument will win every discussion because quite frankly, it is always true.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Chyanne Waters.8719" said:

> Now Anet sells things like Level 80 boosts, waypoint unlocks and other things in the gem store, they do not hurt progression in any way. The Mastery points are the same in this game sometimes easy to get some times a pain to get. So if you can purchase them from the gem store or trade them for certain items in game that will take away some of the things you may not like doing in game. Of course if you like the way it's set up you can do it that way too.

 

The problem that I see here is that waypoints are all the same and getting to level 80 is a very straightforward process, so they are both easy to put a price on. Same goes for other account bound expansions sold on the gem store, like character slots and storage slots. Outfits, gliders, and other cosmetics also have a set price that isn't hard to determine. On the other hand, the requirements for the acquisition of mastery points vary considerably. A price for one mastery point might be insanely high, but for another one might be really low, they simply aren't like the other account unlocks.

 

It could potentially work only for map Insights, similarly how heroic notaries work in WVW, unlocking a random hero challenge when used, all hero challenges in the game are somewhat similar in effort required (unlike mastery points). But I really doubt your issue is with those mastery points

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Well, let's hold on here: You just said this:

> >

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > >Everyone is well aware the developer can do what every they want and they have the ability to do what ever they want.

> >

> > I mean, if Anet can do whatever they want, then monetizing a GS item that is BOTH progressive and accountwide is actually NOT a barrier to Anet offering MP's for sale, contrary to your claim. Great.

> >

>

> Yes, but that was never up for debate here.

 

Well, it is because it's the differences between MP's and already sold progression elements that needs to be considered. If Anet already sells progression elements, then no amount of debating the pros and cons of selling progression elements has any merit for a future progression element ... they have already decided that selling progression is OK.

 

Clearly the differences presented so far seem pretty weak for not offering MP's. I mean, you basically think Anet can't properly price MP's because the combination of account wide and progression is so new to them and so different from everything else that somehow if they were to do so ... some cataclysmic event would occur leading you to conclude they shouldn't sell MPs. Seems to me they will not have a problem putting a price on such a thing.

 

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Chyanne Waters.8719" said:

> > Now Anet sells things like Level 80 boosts, waypoint unlocks and other things in the gem store, they do not hurt progression in any way. The Mastery points are the same in this game sometimes easy to get some times a pain to get. So if you can purchase them from the gem store or trade them for certain items in game that will take away some of the things you may not like doing in game. Of course if you like the way it's set up you can do it that way too.

>

> The problem that I see here is that waypoints are all the same and getting to level 80 is a very straightforward process, so they are both easy to put a price on.

 

Any idea Anet couldn't put a price on MP's, no matter how 'difficult' it would be for them is ... highly speculative. Yes, some MP's are easy and some are hard and like MP's ... some Waypoints are also easy and some are also hard .. yet Anet has figured out how to price WP unlocks ... so to they could determine it for MP's. In addition, leveling isn't a singular path; it's dependent on how a player decides to obtain those levels which leads to the fundamental idea of what makes this MMO appealing to many players ...

 

It all boils down to players having choice. They have choices for how they want to level ... and now they have choice for how to unlock WP's ... and likewise, the OP is asking for similar choice to MP's.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > Well, let's hold on here: You just said this:

> > >

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > >Everyone is well aware the developer can do what every they want and they have the ability to do what ever they want.

> > >

> > > I mean, if Anet can do whatever they want, then monetizing a GS item that is BOTH progressive and accountwide is actually NOT a barrier to Anet offering MP's for sale, contrary to your claim. Great.

> > >

> >

> > Yes, but that was never up for debate here.

>

> Well, it is because it's the differences between MP's and already sold progression elements that are what needs to be considered. If Anet already sells progression elements, then no amount of debating the pros and cons of selling progression elements has any merit ... they have already decided based on whatever arguments presented pro or con that selling progression is OK.

>

> Clearly the differences presented so far seem pretty weak for not offering MP's. I mean, you basically think Anet can't properly price MP's because the combination of account wide and progression is so new to them and so different from everything else that somehow if they were to do so ... some cataclysmic event would occur leading you to conclude they shouldn't sell MPs. Seems to me they will not have a problem putting a price on such a thing.

>

>

>

 

Yes then maybe ask anet to make a character bound mastery progression for the people that want to buy mps so they can buy it on every character they make to do the progression the same as waypoints and level 80 boosts.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > > > Character and account progression are valid reasons, especially given they directly affect monetization.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You're going to have elaborate here ... how is the "direct affect on monetization" (whatever that means) EXCLUDE account based progression from sale but not character based?

> > > > >

> > > > > They are vastly different in how much they can be monetized. One scales (from a monetization perspective) with characters made, deleted, owned and the players desire to spend money on those characters as well as affect other in game considerations. The other is a flat 1 time sale and does not scale (from a monetization perspective) with characters owned because it affects the entire account, and in this case progression on all characters. That is a huge difference as far as monetization potential and makes these 2 vastly different and disqualifies the former from comparison to the later.

> > > >

> > > > Except Anet already sells account wide upgrades so clearly the scale of account vs. character based monetization differences isn't a problem for them and it's definitely not excluding things to be sold as they have done so for many years.

> > >

> > > Yes, but not account wide progression.

> >

> > So you are saying the combination of account wide and progress is a barrier to Anet figuring out how to monetize selling MP's? Can to eloborate on that because frankly, I don't see the problem ... If anything, Anet have the background and experience how to properly monetize BOTH progression elements AND account wide items.

>

> I am now claiming that there is a significant difference, especially from a monetizable scalability, in character and account affecting items and the later was not yet sold. As such there is no precedent for this vastly different, again not only game play wise, but also monetization wise, new element.

 

There wasn't a precedent for ANYTHING Anet added to the GS that was new ... yet they figured out how to price it and add it. MP unlocks would be no different in that regard so the idea that MP's are both account wide and progression and there is some big mystery to you to pricing them are not a reason Anet shouldn't offer MPs.