Tyson.5160 Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 Went back and looked at the story journal for the episode, which phrases the feed back loop a bit differently. “At this point, the fire dragon hasn't woken up. The "feedback loop" of magic between the Elder Dragon and its destroyers is creating a vicious cycle, all started with Kralkatorrik's death and the subsequent absorption of its magic. In Gorrik's words, "Destroyers burn more, Primordus gets stronger, destroyers get more rabid. The effect is exponential."” Primordus getting Magic from Kralkatorrik seems to be very important detail since they mentioned it in the dialogue and the journal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > I’ll take a look some of those old story missions because it seems the frozen ice models appear different then the ones that appear before more of navy blue then light blue. > > This feedback loop is also making the destroyers more rabid. So if the feedback loop isn’t a new ability, possibly demonstrating the destruction/ conflagration, the rabid part may be new. Taimi did say that this ability has been amplified by Kralkatorrik’s magic, so clearly Primordus has obtained something from Kralkatorrik. > > Taimi makes a bunch of comments as well as Jhavi and Marjory. > > Taimi: Almost had it! > : So did we. > Braham Eirsson: The arena. It's headed over there. > Taimi: How do you—that doesn't even make any sense: the portal's over here. > Taimi: Destroyers definitely do not have reason... New algorithm's almost locked on. Hold just a sec > > Jhavi Jorasdottir: I assumed it was to draw us away from the gates of Lion's Arch. But that doesn't make any sense. > Jhavi Jorasdottir: They tried hitting those first, to draw us away from the settlement. Jory was the only one who saw it. > Jhavi Jorasdottir: Maybe Primordus just thrives on chaos. A settlement of defenseless villagers would be a prime target. > > Marjory Delaqua: You don't have to be a killer Krytan sleuth to see this settlement is a more attractive target than Lion's Arch. > Marjory Delaqua: Primordus causes destruction. It's his MO. No better way to do that than set fire to the most vulnerable. > > Taimi: That link we discovered between the destroyers and Primordus? A feedback loop, amplified by Kralk's death. > Gorrik: Destroyers burn more, Primordus gets stronger, destroyers get more rabid. The effect is exponential. > > Maybe Primordus obtained a bit of the fury magic from Kralkatorrik, which is causing the rabid side of the destroyers. I think the destroyers burn more is just Primordus' domain of "conflagaration." But the "more rabid" could definitely be Fury. Perhaps they were more "organized" in a sense and stuck closer to Primordus in designated areas, and because of it the dwarves were able to hold them back. But the Fury aspect from Kralk is causing them to go ape-****. Though, to be honest, I've never really liked these domains. It's difficult understanding the difference between "Fury" and "Conflagaration" or why those would even be domains in the first place. Like, who decided.. hey.. I'm going to give you Plant and Mind, and you Crystal and Fury. Thinking about them as a major and minor: Plant, Fire, Ice, Water, Death, Crystal. Mind, Conflagration, Persuasion, ??, Shadow, Fury. It's just difficult trying to make any connection between them in terms of the general "balance" and sustaining of life.. as elder dragons are more or less a natural part of the eco-system. I think that's one thing that's always frustrated me about the Elder Dragons. Not knowing their origin, the reason they have these specific domains, and fearing we may never get any kind of resolution or further dive into it. But maybe that's just reading too much into it and the Elder Dragons just are. And the domains are just devices they've created to allow them to survive/thrive, like unique evolutionary traits they've developed. Just weird when you think about them being absorbed or used by the other dragons, unless they more or less absorb their essence and consciousness. Then I suppose it's less about absorbing some intangible magical ability and more just obtaining their knowledge of how to use those devices. If that makes any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted February 21, 2021 Author Share Posted February 21, 2021 > @"Bast.7253" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > I’ll take a look some of those old story missions because it seems the frozen ice models appear different then the ones that appear before more of navy blue then light blue. > > > > This feedback loop is also making the destroyers more rabid. So if the feedback loop isn’t a new ability, possibly demonstrating the destruction/ conflagration, the rabid part may be new. Taimi did say that this ability has been amplified by Kralkatorrik’s magic, so clearly Primordus has obtained something from Kralkatorrik. > > > > Taimi makes a bunch of comments as well as Jhavi and Marjory. > > > > Taimi: Almost had it! > > : So did we. > > Braham Eirsson: The arena. It's headed over there. > > Taimi: How do you—that doesn't even make any sense: the portal's over here. > > Taimi: Destroyers definitely do not have reason... New algorithm's almost locked on. Hold just a sec > > > > Jhavi Jorasdottir: I assumed it was to draw us away from the gates of Lion's Arch. But that doesn't make any sense. > > Jhavi Jorasdottir: They tried hitting those first, to draw us away from the settlement. Jory was the only one who saw it. > > Jhavi Jorasdottir: Maybe Primordus just thrives on chaos. A settlement of defenseless villagers would be a prime target. > > > > Marjory Delaqua: You don't have to be a killer Krytan sleuth to see this settlement is a more attractive target than Lion's Arch. > > Marjory Delaqua: Primordus causes destruction. It's his MO. No better way to do that than set fire to the most vulnerable. > > > > Taimi: That link we discovered between the destroyers and Primordus? A feedback loop, amplified by Kralk's death. > > Gorrik: Destroyers burn more, Primordus gets stronger, destroyers get more rabid. The effect is exponential. > > > > Maybe Primordus obtained a bit of the fury magic from Kralkatorrik, which is causing the rabid side of the destroyers. > > I think the destroyers burn more is just Primordus' domain of "conflagaration." But the "more rabid" could definitely be Fury. Perhaps they were more "organized" in a sense and stuck closer to Primordus in designated areas, and because of it the dwarves were able to hold them back. But the Fury aspect from Kralk is causing them to go ape-****. > > Though, to be honest, I've never really liked these domains. It's difficult understanding the difference between "Fury" and "Conflagaration" or why those would even be domains in the first place. Like, who decided.. hey.. I'm going to give you Plant and Mind, and you Crystal and Fury. > > Thinking about them as a major and minor: > Plant, Fire, Ice, Water, Death, Crystal. > Mind, Conflagration, Persuasion, ??, Shadow, Fury. > > It's just difficult trying to make any connection between them in terms of the general "balance" and sustaining of life.. as elder dragons are more or less a natural part of the eco-system. > > I think that's one thing that's always frustrated me about the Elder Dragons. Not knowing their origin, the reason they have these specific domains, and fearing we may never get any kind of resolution or further dive into it. But maybe that's just reading too much into it and the Elder Dragons just are. And the domains are just devices they've created to allow them to survive/thrive, like unique evolutionary traits they've developed. Just weird when you think about them being absorbed or used by the other dragons, unless they more or less absorb their essence and consciousness. Then I suppose it's less about absorbing some intangible magical ability and more just obtaining their knowledge of how to use those devices. > > If that makes any sense. > > Yeah, I considered that as well, what’s interesting too is how if you read the story journal it gives a slightly more different play on the same words that Taimi used. I’m sure the destruction aspect could be a cause of the loop and like you said the rabid part could be a small aspect of Fury. Anyhow the journal says this: “ The "feedback loop" of magic between the Elder Dragon and its destroyers is creating a vicious cycle, all started with Kralkatorrik's death and the subsequent absorption of its magic. In Gorrik's words, "Destroyers burn more, Primordus gets stronger, destroyers get more rabid. The effect is exponential."” This seems to me that this loop is a new thing according to the journal. Why advise that’s it from Kralkatorrik’s death in the first place. You could easily cut that information away and Taimi could advise hey we discovered a new ability that Primordus had, that we never knew existed. This doesn’t seem to be the case. Whatever this feedback loop is, it seems to derive from Kralkatorrik and his magic, much like how they advised that Kralkatorrik gained advanced hive mind abilities from Mordremoth, without really saying that Kralkatorrik gained Mordremoth’s mind sphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Bast.7253" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > I’ll take a look some of those old story missions because it seems the frozen ice models appear different then the ones that appear before more of navy blue then light blue. > > > > > > This feedback loop is also making the destroyers more rabid. So if the feedback loop isn’t a new ability, possibly demonstrating the destruction/ conflagration, the rabid part may be new. Taimi did say that this ability has been amplified by Kralkatorrik’s magic, so clearly Primordus has obtained something from Kralkatorrik. > > > > > > Taimi makes a bunch of comments as well as Jhavi and Marjory. > > > > > > Taimi: Almost had it! > > > : So did we. > > > Braham Eirsson: The arena. It's headed over there. > > > Taimi: How do you—that doesn't even make any sense: the portal's over here. > > > Taimi: Destroyers definitely do not have reason... New algorithm's almost locked on. Hold just a sec > > > > > > Jhavi Jorasdottir: I assumed it was to draw us away from the gates of Lion's Arch. But that doesn't make any sense. > > > Jhavi Jorasdottir: They tried hitting those first, to draw us away from the settlement. Jory was the only one who saw it. > > > Jhavi Jorasdottir: Maybe Primordus just thrives on chaos. A settlement of defenseless villagers would be a prime target. > > > > > > Marjory Delaqua: You don't have to be a killer Krytan sleuth to see this settlement is a more attractive target than Lion's Arch. > > > Marjory Delaqua: Primordus causes destruction. It's his MO. No better way to do that than set fire to the most vulnerable. > > > > > > Taimi: That link we discovered between the destroyers and Primordus? A feedback loop, amplified by Kralk's death. > > > Gorrik: Destroyers burn more, Primordus gets stronger, destroyers get more rabid. The effect is exponential. > > > > > > Maybe Primordus obtained a bit of the fury magic from Kralkatorrik, which is causing the rabid side of the destroyers. > > > > I think the destroyers burn more is just Primordus' domain of "conflagaration." But the "more rabid" could definitely be Fury. Perhaps they were more "organized" in a sense and stuck closer to Primordus in designated areas, and because of it the dwarves were able to hold them back. But the Fury aspect from Kralk is causing them to go ape-****. > > > > Though, to be honest, I've never really liked these domains. It's difficult understanding the difference between "Fury" and "Conflagaration" or why those would even be domains in the first place. Like, who decided.. hey.. I'm going to give you Plant and Mind, and you Crystal and Fury. > > > > Thinking about them as a major and minor: > > Plant, Fire, Ice, Water, Death, Crystal. > > Mind, Conflagration, Persuasion, ??, Shadow, Fury. > > > > It's just difficult trying to make any connection between them in terms of the general "balance" and sustaining of life.. as elder dragons are more or less a natural part of the eco-system. > > > > I think that's one thing that's always frustrated me about the Elder Dragons. Not knowing their origin, the reason they have these specific domains, and fearing we may never get any kind of resolution or further dive into it. But maybe that's just reading too much into it and the Elder Dragons just are. And the domains are just devices they've created to allow them to survive/thrive, like unique evolutionary traits they've developed. Just weird when you think about them being absorbed or used by the other dragons, unless they more or less absorb their essence and consciousness. Then I suppose it's less about absorbing some intangible magical ability and more just obtaining their knowledge of how to use those devices. > > > > If that makes any sense. > > > > > Yeah, I considered that as well, what’s interesting too is how if you read the story journal it gives a slightly more different play on the same words that Taimi used. I’m sure the destruction aspect could be a cause of the loop and like you said the rabid part could be a small aspect of Fury. > > Anyhow the journal says this: > > “ The "feedback loop" of magic between the Elder Dragon and its destroyers is creating a vicious cycle, all started with Kralkatorrik's death and the subsequent absorption of its magic. In Gorrik's words, "Destroyers burn more, Primordus gets stronger, destroyers get more rabid. The effect is exponential."” > > This seems to me that this loop is a new thing according to the journal. Why advise that’s it from Kralkatorrik’s death in the first place. You could easily cut that information away and Taimi could advise hey we discovered a new ability that Primordus had, that we never knew existed. This doesn’t seem to be the case. Whatever this feedback loop is, it seems to derive from Kralkatorrik and his magic, much like how they advised that Kralkatorrik gained advanced hive mind abilities from Mordremoth, without really saying that Kralkatorrik gained Mordremoth’s mind sphere. > Possibly. But I think the interpretation of that is pretty open. It could be implying a new ability gained by Kralk, or it could just simply be the release of magic (no matter how much Aurene seems to have absorbed) that caused them to stir. Especially given the lines last year about Drakkar absorbing magic from Kralk's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 > @"Bast.7253" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Bast.7253" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > I’ll take a look some of those old story missions because it seems the frozen ice models appear different then the ones that appear before more of navy blue then light blue. > > > > > > > > This feedback loop is also making the destroyers more rabid. So if the feedback loop isn’t a new ability, possibly demonstrating the destruction/ conflagration, the rabid part may be new. Taimi did say that this ability has been amplified by Kralkatorrik’s magic, so clearly Primordus has obtained something from Kralkatorrik. > > > > > > > > Taimi makes a bunch of comments as well as Jhavi and Marjory. > > > > > > > > Taimi: Almost had it! > > > > : So did we. > > > > Braham Eirsson: The arena. It's headed over there. > > > > Taimi: How do you—that doesn't even make any sense: the portal's over here. > > > > Taimi: Destroyers definitely do not have reason... New algorithm's almost locked on. Hold just a sec > > > > > > > > Jhavi Jorasdottir: I assumed it was to draw us away from the gates of Lion's Arch. But that doesn't make any sense. > > > > Jhavi Jorasdottir: They tried hitting those first, to draw us away from the settlement. Jory was the only one who saw it. > > > > Jhavi Jorasdottir: Maybe Primordus just thrives on chaos. A settlement of defenseless villagers would be a prime target. > > > > > > > > Marjory Delaqua: You don't have to be a killer Krytan sleuth to see this settlement is a more attractive target than Lion's Arch. > > > > Marjory Delaqua: Primordus causes destruction. It's his MO. No better way to do that than set fire to the most vulnerable. > > > > > > > > Taimi: That link we discovered between the destroyers and Primordus? A feedback loop, amplified by Kralk's death. > > > > Gorrik: Destroyers burn more, Primordus gets stronger, destroyers get more rabid. The effect is exponential. > > > > > > > > Maybe Primordus obtained a bit of the fury magic from Kralkatorrik, which is causing the rabid side of the destroyers. > > > > > > I think the destroyers burn more is just Primordus' domain of "conflagaration." But the "more rabid" could definitely be Fury. Perhaps they were more "organized" in a sense and stuck closer to Primordus in designated areas, and because of it the dwarves were able to hold them back. But the Fury aspect from Kralk is causing them to go ape-****. > > > > > > Though, to be honest, I've never really liked these domains. It's difficult understanding the difference between "Fury" and "Conflagaration" or why those would even be domains in the first place. Like, who decided.. hey.. I'm going to give you Plant and Mind, and you Crystal and Fury. > > > > > > Thinking about them as a major and minor: > > > Plant, Fire, Ice, Water, Death, Crystal. > > > Mind, Conflagration, Persuasion, ??, Shadow, Fury. > > > > > > It's just difficult trying to make any connection between them in terms of the general "balance" and sustaining of life.. as elder dragons are more or less a natural part of the eco-system. > > > > > > I think that's one thing that's always frustrated me about the Elder Dragons. Not knowing their origin, the reason they have these specific domains, and fearing we may never get any kind of resolution or further dive into it. But maybe that's just reading too much into it and the Elder Dragons just are. And the domains are just devices they've created to allow them to survive/thrive, like unique evolutionary traits they've developed. Just weird when you think about them being absorbed or used by the other dragons, unless they more or less absorb their essence and consciousness. Then I suppose it's less about absorbing some intangible magical ability and more just obtaining their knowledge of how to use those devices. > > > > > > If that makes any sense. > > > > > > > > Yeah, I considered that as well, what’s interesting too is how if you read the story journal it gives a slightly more different play on the same words that Taimi used. I’m sure the destruction aspect could be a cause of the loop and like you said the rabid part could be a small aspect of Fury. > > > > Anyhow the journal says this: > > > > “ The "feedback loop" of magic between the Elder Dragon and its destroyers is creating a vicious cycle, all started with Kralkatorrik's death and the subsequent absorption of its magic. In Gorrik's words, "Destroyers burn more, Primordus gets stronger, destroyers get more rabid. The effect is exponential."” > > > > This seems to me that this loop is a new thing according to the journal. Why advise that’s it from Kralkatorrik’s death in the first place. You could easily cut that information away and Taimi could advise hey we discovered a new ability that Primordus had, that we never knew existed. This doesn’t seem to be the case. Whatever this feedback loop is, it seems to derive from Kralkatorrik and his magic, much like how they advised that Kralkatorrik gained advanced hive mind abilities from Mordremoth, without really saying that Kralkatorrik gained Mordremoth’s mind sphere. > > > > Possibly. But I think the interpretation of that is pretty open. It could be implying a new ability gained by Kralk, or it could just simply be the release of magic (no matter how much Aurene seems to have absorbed) that caused them to stir. Especially given the lines last year about Drakkar absorbing magic from Kralk's death. Yeah, I suppose. It’s very possible that this is a form of Crystal and Fury Domain in regards to the feedback loop too, the common resonance from the Crystal domain that allowed for the branded to be weak to each other and Kralkatorrik, as well as the Fury domain making them rabid and semi unorganized, but we’ll have to see more evidence from future releases hopefully. Like you were saying before look at how each dragon have been using each other’s power, it all seems slightly different. Mordremoth was able to create minions from the dead due to the absorption from Zhaitan death magic as well as use some Shadow domain for himself in its final battle as well as with the Shadow of the Dragon. Primordus infused death and plant magic into his destroyers from both deceased dragons. While we have this new feed back loop from Kralkatorrik apparently. Jormag appeared to be experimenting with death and plant icebrood, and uses death magic to speak through corpses, as well has gain the ability from Balthazar to Mist travel. Kralkatorrik was able to create branded from the dead as well and resurrect dead branded minions, as well as use an advanced hive mind from Mordremoth’s mind sphere. He was also able to use Mist Travel as well from Balthazar. We’ll see if Jormag or Primordus has further tricks up their sleeves as well as what the DSD has acquired in terms of magic domains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > > This would make it harder (or outright impossible) for destroyers to damage. Primordus, however, should have an easier time of it - same with something made out of a higher quantity of Primordus magic than the current destroyers at least. > > So something like the primordial fire in Edge of Destiny (which could burn even Destroyers, which in the book were presented as completely immune to Sohothin's fire) would probably be able to do it. > Curiously we can burn destroyers now. That may be just to balance the gameplay for guardians playing the story. But perhaps it's related to us being a champion of Aurene. Fury contains sun magic, perhaps our fire is now hot enough to melt rock. And ice is crystalline. I'm guessing we could shatter the ice surrounding the Frozen with the wings we've manifested before to shatter crystal in the Descent. Though that might kill the people inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > > > > This would make it harder (or outright impossible) for destroyers to damage. Primordus, however, should have an easier time of it - same with something made out of a higher quantity of Primordus magic than the current destroyers at least. > > > > So something like the primordial fire in Edge of Destiny (which could burn even Destroyers, which in the book were presented as completely immune to Sohothin's fire) would probably be able to do it. > > > > Curiously we can burn destroyers now. That may be just to balance the gameplay for guardians playing the story. But perhaps it's related to us being a champion of Aurene. > > Fury contains sun magic, perhaps our fire is now hot enough to melt rock. > > And ice is crystalline. I'm guessing we could shatter the ice surrounding the Frozen with the wings we've manifested before to shatter crystal in the Descent. Though that might kill the people inside. The fairness of gameplay for guardians, eles, berserkers etc will be the overriding reason. But, the explanation in lore can pretty go in a few directions. For me, I've put it down to the explanation that Primordus' adapting the magic he absorbed from other Dragons has has the side effect of remaining susceptible to our burning (as per LS3) even though he isn't directly utilising their magic anymore. Combine that with the idea of Aurene's influence/your idea above alteriung our burning spells and it seems to hold together enough for gameplay purposes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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