anyone using cele amulet yet?

[Amityel.5324]

celestial is useless......necro corrupt boons, sigils who remove boons on swap or on hit 9s cd, spellbreaker who remove boons, power mesmer remove boons, condi rev remove boons etc etc too many things that could make your build totaly useless, you tell me they are not meta classes but pple still use them even in ranked and once you met them you are -1 for your team and we all know toughness is almost useless nowadays blocks invuls resistances condi clears win you duels or team fights nowadays....

[rank eleven monk.9502]

I really feel like bumping all those threads which came up the day Celestial was readded to the game. Took people a few days to find out it is a rather useless amulet.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> I really feel like bumping all those threads which came up the day Celestial was readded to the game. Took people a few days to find out it is a rather useless amulet.

 

It's part of the plan

 

1. Celestial OP.

2. Celestial Removed.

3. Complains in order to have celestial back.

4. Dev say that they probably could add it back but with less stats.

5. Agreement.

6. Celestial with low stats is nearly useless.

7. Complains in order to incrase stats.

 

:lol:

[Chaith.8256]

So... you're getting all your boons stripped and because you have Sage's, Paladin, or some other tanky Amulet you think your damage is still gonna be decent without might/fury?

 

Just saying, Celestial is one of the tankiest amulets available. It has more defensive stats than Sage's and Paladin's amulet, and it combines Healing/Toughness/Vitality, so you're not missing toughness like with every other high defensive stat amulet like Magi/Menders. It's a defensive amulet, and the most well rounded.

 

For example, playing Marauder Holosmith with no might stacks, you still aren't good, for the damage you do, you die seemingly 2x as fast. All builds that can build high might stacks are balanced around doing so..

 

Celestial is okay right where it's at, let's imagine the possibility that boon rip might NOT be so common at some point....

[Impact.2780]

Cele is a good all-rounder by design, and while it increases a single stat less compared to other amulets, since it has stats where other amulets lack, when comparing it to direct damage stats it is supplemented by condition damage, and vice versa. It also has the best sustain which is healing power and toughness, combined with a decent amount of vitality. It has received a nerf since it was last in PvP, but not enough to make this untrue.

 

You also need to consider that when using something like Sage's, you're trying to support while maintaining a good amount of offensive pressure. It is what made cele D/D ele so good in the meta before HoT. The primary focus is on supporting as a "team fighter" (role), which you can do a lot better if you're more easily able to survive yourself, not just because of the effects it has on you during the fight, but because it allows you to trade some other self-defensive aspects of the build for team-support or even offense. The secondary focus is offensive pressure, but with sage's it's conditions, of which ele doesn't have a great many that it can stack intensively constantly. They can be removed, and will be removed alongside stacks placed by team mates applying their own more damaging conditions. That's a lot of damage very (from more than 1 player) easily negated, which obviously puts the other team at an advantage. With that in mind, you'll likely get better pressure with celestial than sage's. Furthermore, when you have more sustain, as long as you didn't give up too much offensive pressure, you will be able to apply it more consistently because you'll need to kite away and recover less often. As a support role you're arguably the most valuable in a team composition, which makes having added sustain especially at little-to-no effective cost, an extremely big selling point of celestial.

 

I haven't looked at it for anything else yet, but historically it was only ele and engi that were really able to utilise it fully. Rangers tried and failed, warrior could-ish. I considered it for mesmer briefly, but then found I could get almost 600 condition damage with mind wrack alone while running marauder, so for all-round pressure I took a different route. If you were to use celestial with mesmer you'd ideally take inspiration, a chunk of which is redundant with mirage so you'd likely be looking at chrono.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> Celestial is okay right where it's at, let's imagine the possibility that boon rip might NOT be so common at some point....

 

That was the problem to begin with.

And also higher stats ofc.

[Loboling.5293]

I found some decent success with cele firebrand. It doesn't heal as strong, but it can take a lot of 1v1s.

[Syprus Soulslayer.1640]

is everyone forgetting mirage mesmer can spec Chaos that offers a conversion of toughness to condition damage, Dueling which has superiority complex offers a static 15% crit damage and an additional 10% while enemies are below 50% or when stunned / CC, and mirage has a trait which also increases condition damage on shatter + vigor... sounds like a winning combination to me when paired with travelers ( 25% movement speed + increased cele stats ). youll have good damage VIA a mix of power and conditions ( weapons permitting ) good sustain and mobility. I'm at work now so I haven't tested it out but this could work

[Syprus Soulslayer.1640]

crit damage is what? 175-180% with cele? add the extra 25% from superiority and that'll make your crits hit decently hard even with cele power. ohh and deuling offers perms fury when enemies are below 75% HP which would furter increase power damage. Toss in Intel sigils for the guarantee crits should make it easy to keep the fury uptime ( as long as it's not stripped / concerted )

[NotASmurf.1725]

> @"Syprus Soulslayer.1640" said:

> crit damage is what? 175-180% with cele? add the extra 25% from superiority and that'll make your crits hit decently hard even with cele power. ohh and deuling offers perms fury when enemies are below 75% HP which would furter increase power damage. Toss in Intel sigils for the guarantee crits should make it easy to keep the fury uptime ( as long as it's not stripped / concerted )

 

Even Sage hits harder than cele because of higher power.

[Syprus Soulslayer.1640]

> @NotASmurf.1725 said:

> > @"Syprus Soulslayer.1640" said:

> > crit damage is what? 175-180% with cele? add the extra 25% from superiority and that'll make your crits hit decently hard even with cele power. ohh and deuling offers perms fury when enemies are below 75% HP which would furter increase power damage. Toss in Intel sigils for the guarantee crits should make it easy to keep the fury uptime ( as long as it's not stripped / concerted )

>

> Even Sage hits harder than cele because of higher power.

 

good luck landing crits with zero precision, and crit damage will be crap without ferocity. I'd love to see a comparison between the 2, 200% crit damage might be better than having the extra power

[Chaith.8256]

> @Impact.2780 said:

> Cele is a good all-rounder by design, and while it increases a single stat less compared to other amulets, since it has stats where other amulets lack, when comparing it to direct damage stats it is supplemented by condition damage, and vice versa. It also has the best sustain which is healing power and toughness, combined with a decent amount of vitality. It has received a nerf since it was last in PvP, but not enough to make this untrue.

>

> You also need to consider that when using something like Sage's, you're trying to support while maintaining a good amount of offensive pressure. It is what made cele D/D ele so good in the meta before HoT. The primary focus is on supporting as a "team fighter" (role), which you can do a lot better if you're more easily able to survive yourself, not just because of the effects it has on you during the fight, but because it allows you to trade some other self-defensive aspects of the build for team-support or even offense. The secondary focus is offensive pressure, but with sage's it's conditions, of which ele doesn't have a great many that it can stack intensively constantly. They can be removed, and will be removed alongside stacks placed by team mates applying their own more damaging conditions. That's a lot of damage very (from more than 1 player) easily negated, which obviously puts the other team at an advantage. With that in mind, you'll likely get better pressure with celestial than sage's. Furthermore, when you have more sustain, as long as you didn't give up too much offensive pressure, you will be able to apply it more consistently because you'll need to kite away and recover less often. As a support role you're arguably the most valuable in a team composition, which makes having added sustain especially at little-to-no effective cost, an extremely big selling point of celestial.

>

> I haven't looked at it for anything else yet, but historically it was only ele and engi that were really able to utilise it fully. Rangers tried and failed, warrior could-ish. I considered it for mesmer briefly, but then found I could get almost 600 condition damage with mind wrack alone while running marauder, so for all-round pressure I took a different route. If you were to use celestial with mesmer you'd ideally take inspiration, a chunk of which is redundant with mirage so you'd likely be looking at chrono.

 

Sages Weaver is not a supporting team fighter AT ALL. Sage amulet is for tanky side node 1v1. Sage's Weaver does have significant condition pressure.

 

> @NotASmurf.1725 said:

> > @"Syprus Soulslayer.1640" said:

> > crit damage is what? 175-180% with cele? add the extra 25% from superiority and that'll make your crits hit decently hard even with cele power. ohh and deuling offers perms fury when enemies are below 75% HP which would furter increase power damage. Toss in Intel sigils for the guarantee crits should make it easy to keep the fury uptime ( as long as it's not stripped / concerted )

>

> Even Sage hits harder than cele because of higher power.

 

What do you mean 'even sages', Sage's amulet is squishier than Cele, it should do more damage. Cele hits slightly harder with power damage than Sage's, even. Sage has 590 extra power, but Cele has 460 extra precision and 460 extra ferocity. Sage's amulet pulls ahead in damage when your conditions start owning.

 

[Lighter.5631]

im pretty sure some one will make a celestial super cheese dueling build that only works in 1v1 server -.-......

[Impact.2780]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> > @Impact.2780 said:

> > Cele is a good all-rounder by design, and while it increases a single stat less compared to other amulets, since it has stats where other amulets lack, when comparing it to direct damage stats it is supplemented by condition damage, and vice versa. It also has the best sustain which is healing power and toughness, combined with a decent amount of vitality. It has received a nerf since it was last in PvP, but not enough to make this untrue.

> >

> > You also need to consider that when using something like Sage's, you're trying to support while maintaining a good amount of offensive pressure. It is what made cele D/D ele so good in the meta before HoT. The primary focus is on supporting as a "team fighter" (role), which you can do a lot better if you're more easily able to survive yourself, not just because of the effects it has on you during the fight, but because it allows you to trade some other self-defensive aspects of the build for team-support or even offense. The secondary focus is offensive pressure, but with sage's it's conditions, of which ele doesn't have a great many that it can stack intensively constantly. They can be removed, and will be removed alongside stacks placed by team mates applying their own more damaging conditions. That's a lot of damage very (from more than 1 player) easily negated, which obviously puts the other team at an advantage. With that in mind, you'll likely get better pressure with celestial than sage's. Furthermore, when you have more sustain, as long as you didn't give up too much offensive pressure, you will be able to apply it more consistently because you'll need to kite away and recover less often. As a support role you're arguably the most valuable in a team composition, which makes having added sustain especially at little-to-no effective cost, an extremely big selling point of celestial.

> >

> > I haven't looked at it for anything else yet, but historically it was only ele and engi that were really able to utilise it fully. Rangers tried and failed, warrior could-ish. I considered it for mesmer briefly, but then found I could get almost 600 condition damage with mind wrack alone while running marauder, so for all-round pressure I took a different route. If you were to use celestial with mesmer you'd ideally take inspiration, a chunk of which is redundant with mirage so you'd likely be looking at chrono.

>

> Sages Weaver is not a supporting team fighter AT ALL. Sage amulet is for tanky side node 1v1. Sage's Weaver does have significant condition pressure.

>

> > @NotASmurf.1725 said:

> > > @"Syprus Soulslayer.1640" said:

> > > crit damage is what? 175-180% with cele? add the extra 25% from superiority and that'll make your crits hit decently hard even with cele power. ohh and deuling offers perms fury when enemies are below 75% HP which would furter increase power damage. Toss in Intel sigils for the guarantee crits should make it easy to keep the fury uptime ( as long as it's not stripped / concerted )

> >

> > Even Sage hits harder than cele because of higher power.

>

> What do you mean 'even sages', Sage's amulet is squishier than Cele, it should do more damage. Cele hits slightly harder with power damage than Sage's, even. Sage has 590 extra power, but Cele has 460 extra precision and 460 extra ferocity. Sage's amulet pulls ahead in damage when your conditions start owning.

>

 

When you have good healing power, area healing, elemental attunement and evasive arcana, especially with 3s attunement swaps, you are very capable of supporting your allies. Either you're in a team fight where your allies benefit from that, or you're holding a decap/cap which if the enemy team is committing to, will get plused, so you'll either bail or get plused, and when you get plused, you'll be again sharing that support the build has. It's the same idea behind cele D/D ele. You'd see D/D and staff eles both, going for a decap, taking a 1v1 to hold a cap or decap, and supporting a team fight. With such a build you do it all. Did you ever see a match where said ele would not provide team support? Or where they didn't rotate to where the necro was to provide cleanse? If you want to be a far point assaulter specifically, you don't take a build like that outside of solo queue where even bunker necro can be effective when it holds 3v1 because people aren't smart enough to realise they are throwing.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"Syprus Soulslayer.1640" said:

> is everyone forgetting mirage mesmer can spec Chaos that offers a conversion of toughness to condition damage, Dueling which has superiority complex offers a static 15% crit damage and an additional 10% while enemies are below 50% or when stunned / CC, and mirage has a trait which also increases condition damage on shatter + vigor... sounds like a winning combination to me when paired with travelers ( 25% movement speed + increased cele stats ). youll have good damage VIA a mix of power and conditions ( weapons permitting ) good sustain and mobility. I'm at work now so I haven't tested it out but this could work

 

Yes I am seeing some potential of cele on mirage with chaos (and either duelling or illusions - duelling for essentially perma vigour and perma fury, illusions for shattered strength). Still needs more testing, and I think cele amulet could use a small (+30) stat buff, but otherwise I think there is potential of a solid cele mirage spec.

[Chaith.8256]

> @Impact.2780 said:

 

> When you have good healing power, area healing, elemental attunement and evasive arcana, especially with 3s attunement swaps, you are very capable of supporting your allies. Either you're in a team fight where your allies benefit from that, or you're holding a decap/cap which if the enemy team is committing to, will get plused, so you'll either bail or get plused, and when you get plused, you'll be again sharing that support the build has. It's the same idea behind cele D/D ele. You'd see D/D and staff eles both, going for a decap, taking a 1v1 to hold a cap or decap, and supporting a team fight. With such a build you do it all. Did you ever see a match where said ele would not provide team support? Or where they didn't rotate to where the necro was to provide cleanse? If you want to be a far point assaulter specifically, you don't take a build like that outside of solo queue where even bunker necro can be effective when it holds 3v1 because people aren't smart enough to realise they are throwing.

 

What you're describing no longer happens. If a Sage's Sword/Dagger Weaver enters a target rich environment, the lack of stability makes it a pretty soft target for even a small coordinated burst from a 1-2 players will totally nullify any miniscule support Weaver can put out, which is like, 1/3rd of the support Firebrand puts out anyway.

 

https://go.twitch.tv/videos/185086817?t=88m50s

 

Here's an game I fought vs. Phanta yesterday, as a single Holo I could pretty much keep him from supporting any teammates. The best Weaver who plays PvP, with a fairly tanky amulet like Sage can die even amongst teammates to a single person's spike once they run out of Twist of Fate ammunition.

 

Sage's Weaver needs to stay the hell away from any coordinated spike and use sustain selfishly. With how glassy people are building right now, it's kill or be killed - Sage's Weaver doesn't have a spare millisecond to support teammates these days. A slower meta would make Weaver and other high sustain, low toughness builds better.

 

 

[Khenzy.9348]

I've tried some core celestial ranger with relative success. But as said above, too much damage in this meta. Half Sustain or support buisers are not at all worth it, you have to go all out. Some celestial builds (such as the one I've tried on ranger) rely on might stacking. Might doesn't last long with these many spellbreakers and scourges around which also happen to hard counter the ranger class as a whole (no longbow to counter scourge, you use the axe to might stack).

 

I imagine it would be a similar case with others trying out celestial.

 

Also, I don't think celestial is as worth it anymore on ele. Many DPS builds already have decent sustain due to powercreep (which shouldn't be the case tbh) and the might stacking potential of Ele has been significantly nerfed since then.

[Impact.2780]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> > @Impact.2780 said:

>

> > When you have good healing power, area healing, elemental attunement and evasive arcana, especially with 3s attunement swaps, you are very capable of supporting your allies. Either you're in a team fight where your allies benefit from that, or you're holding a decap/cap which if the enemy team is committing to, will get plused, so you'll either bail or get plused, and when you get plused, you'll be again sharing that support the build has. It's the same idea behind cele D/D ele. You'd see D/D and staff eles both, going for a decap, taking a 1v1 to hold a cap or decap, and supporting a team fight. With such a build you do it all. Did you ever see a match where said ele would not provide team support? Or where they didn't rotate to where the necro was to provide cleanse? If you want to be a far point assaulter specifically, you don't take a build like that outside of solo queue where even bunker necro can be effective when it holds 3v1 because people aren't smart enough to realise they are throwing.

>

> What you're describing no longer happens. If a Sage's Sword/Dagger Weaver enters a target rich environment, the lack of stability makes it a pretty soft target for even a small coordinated burst from a 1-2 players will totally nullify any miniscule support Weaver can put out, which is like, 1/3rd of the support Firebrand puts out anyway.

>

> https://go.twitch.tv/videos/185086817?t=88m50s

>

> Here's an game I fought vs. Phanta yesterday, as a single Holo I could pretty much keep him from supporting any teammates. The best Weaver who plays PvP, with a fairly tanky amulet like Sage can die even amongst teammates to a single person's spike once they run out of Twist of Fate ammunition.

>

> Sage's Weaver needs to stay the hell away from any coordinated spike and use sustain selfishly. With how glassy people are building right now, it's kill or be killed - Sage's Weaver doesn't have a spare millisecond to support teammates these days. A slower meta would make Weaver and other high sustain, low toughness builds better.

>

>

 

Sage's isn't tanky; it is secondary healing power and lacks toughness. Ele's healing abilities scale extremely well with healing power, which is why - along with its abundance of protection - it could pull off menders. Toughness with strong healing is huge. If you're in a matchup where they are a lot of high hitting projectiles coming your way, as an ele, you take projectile blocks. This build has given up dagger (earth 2) and focus (earth 4, air 4). He gets RTL sure, but has given up things like burning speed and the fire+water dual skill which is basically a second burning speed with a water field instead of a fire field. If you walk in with that vs. marauder projectiles you're done. That's obvious. You have to tweak. This is also the same guy who complained in excess about Tempest being the death of ele, how weak it would be and unviable it would be. Meanwhile I'm telling the eles I know not to worry, Tempest will be a mandatory support class for any serious team, which it was.

 

Tempest kept DH out of the meta for the longest time because of its projectile hate. Without projectile counters, you'll get rangers, dead eyes, and holosmiths, heck even the occasional daring rifle warrior, ripping any ele that wants to hold its own, to pieces, before moving on to the next target. A build mistake does not dismiss the values of celestial stats.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

> @TheQuickFox.3826 said:

> Yes, I use it on my Ele. Instead of being two-shot in 2 sec, I'm now three-shot in 2.5 sec. So, we're improving here.

> But no Gw1-like survivability + high dmg ranged AoE spamming tho. (In Gw1, I only feared hammer warriors who kept me knocked down while bashing my insides and outsides to pulp or mesmers who completely shut me down. The rest I basically owned with Searing Flames, Mystic Regen, Aura of Restoration and a lot of health.)

 

Never encountered a good ranger then? Dshotting SF was incredibly satisfying, I have to say.

 

Anyways, I might try cele amulet, but I doubt that it'll be particularly worthwhile for me to use. Boon stacking was pretty important to it even when its stats were better, and with that nerfed as well as cele's stats, I think that my current amulet choices are here to stay.

[Chaith.8256]

> @Impact.2780 said:

> > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > > @Impact.2780 said:

> >

> > > When you have good healing power, area healing, elemental attunement and evasive arcana, especially with 3s attunement swaps, you are very capable of supporting your allies. Either you're in a team fight where your allies benefit from that, or you're holding a decap/cap which if the enemy team is committing to, will get plused, so you'll either bail or get plused, and when you get plused, you'll be again sharing that support the build has. It's the same idea behind cele D/D ele. You'd see D/D and staff eles both, going for a decap, taking a 1v1 to hold a cap or decap, and supporting a team fight. With such a build you do it all. Did you ever see a match where said ele would not provide team support? Or where they didn't rotate to where the necro was to provide cleanse? If you want to be a far point assaulter specifically, you don't take a build like that outside of solo queue where even bunker necro can be effective when it holds 3v1 because people aren't smart enough to realise they are throwing.

> >

> > What you're describing no longer happens. If a Sage's Sword/Dagger Weaver enters a target rich environment, the lack of stability makes it a pretty soft target for even a small coordinated burst from a 1-2 players will totally nullify any miniscule support Weaver can put out, which is like, 1/3rd of the support Firebrand puts out anyway.

> >

> > https://go.twitch.tv/videos/185086817?t=88m50s

> >

> > Here's an game I fought vs. Phanta yesterday, as a single Holo I could pretty much keep him from supporting any teammates. The best Weaver who plays PvP, with a fairly tanky amulet like Sage can die even amongst teammates to a single person's spike once they run out of Twist of Fate ammunition.

> >

> > Sage's Weaver needs to stay the hell away from any coordinated spike and use sustain selfishly. With how glassy people are building right now, it's kill or be killed - Sage's Weaver doesn't have a spare millisecond to support teammates these days. A slower meta would make Weaver and other high sustain, low toughness builds better.

> >

> >

>

> Sage's isn't tanky; it is secondary healing power and lacks toughness. Ele's healing abilities scale extremely well with healing power, which is why - along with its abundance of protection - it could pull off menders. Toughness with strong healing is huge. If you're in a matchup where they are a lot of high hitting projectiles coming your way, as an ele, you take projectile blocks. This build has given up dagger (earth 2) and focus (earth 4, air 4). He gets RTL sure, but has given up things like burning speed and the fire+water dual skill which is basically a second burning speed with a water field instead of a fire field. If you walk in with that vs. marauder projectiles you're done. That's obvious. You have to tweak. This is also the same guy who complained in excess about Tempest being the death of ele, how weak it would be and unviable it would be. Meanwhile I'm telling the eles I know not to worry, Tempest will be a mandatory support class for any serious team, which it was.

>

> Tempest kept DH out of the meta for the longest time because of its projectile hate. Without projectile counters, you'll get rangers, dead eyes, and holosmiths, heck even the occasional daring rifle warrior, ripping any ele that wants to hold its own, to pieces, before moving on to the next target. A build mistake does not dismiss the values of celestial stats.

 

Offensive Amulets like Marauder, Deadshot, Wanderer, Seeker, Demolisher, these only are packing 560 of a single defensive stat.. Paladin and Sage's have two 560 point investments in defensive stats.. you think I can't call Sage's Amulet "fairly tanky" as I'm quoted? Paladin/Sages/Menders/Celestial are all fairly tanky with their 1,120, 1380 or Mender's bigger investment in defensive stats.

 

Also, "it could pull off menders. Toughness with strong healing is huge", I dunno what you mean here, Mender's Amulet doesn't have toughness..

 

Anyways, my point was that Weaver isn't doing any meaningful support and especially not teamfighting vs. highly focused enemies. Weavers are kiting and scared for their life about 80% of the time if they're not able to get even fights on side nodes.

[Impact.2780]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> > @Impact.2780 said:

> > > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > > > @Impact.2780 said:

> > >

> > > > When you have good healing power, area healing, elemental attunement and evasive arcana, especially with 3s attunement swaps, you are very capable of supporting your allies. Either you're in a team fight where your allies benefit from that, or you're holding a decap/cap which if the enemy team is committing to, will get plused, so you'll either bail or get plused, and when you get plused, you'll be again sharing that support the build has. It's the same idea behind cele D/D ele. You'd see D/D and staff eles both, going for a decap, taking a 1v1 to hold a cap or decap, and supporting a team fight. With such a build you do it all. Did you ever see a match where said ele would not provide team support? Or where they didn't rotate to where the necro was to provide cleanse? If you want to be a far point assaulter specifically, you don't take a build like that outside of solo queue where even bunker necro can be effective when it holds 3v1 because people aren't smart enough to realise they are throwing.

> > >

> > > What you're describing no longer happens. If a Sage's Sword/Dagger Weaver enters a target rich environment, the lack of stability makes it a pretty soft target for even a small coordinated burst from a 1-2 players will totally nullify any miniscule support Weaver can put out, which is like, 1/3rd of the support Firebrand puts out anyway.

> > >

> > > https://go.twitch.tv/videos/185086817?t=88m50s

> > >

> > > Here's an game I fought vs. Phanta yesterday, as a single Holo I could pretty much keep him from supporting any teammates. The best Weaver who plays PvP, with a fairly tanky amulet like Sage can die even amongst teammates to a single person's spike once they run out of Twist of Fate ammunition.

> > >

> > > Sage's Weaver needs to stay the hell away from any coordinated spike and use sustain selfishly. With how glassy people are building right now, it's kill or be killed - Sage's Weaver doesn't have a spare millisecond to support teammates these days. A slower meta would make Weaver and other high sustain, low toughness builds better.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Sage's isn't tanky; it is secondary healing power and lacks toughness. Ele's healing abilities scale extremely well with healing power, which is why - along with its abundance of protection - it could pull off menders. Toughness with strong healing is huge. If you're in a matchup where they are a lot of high hitting projectiles coming your way, as an ele, you take projectile blocks. This build has given up dagger (earth 2) and focus (earth 4, air 4). He gets RTL sure, but has given up things like burning speed and the fire+water dual skill which is basically a second burning speed with a water field instead of a fire field. If you walk in with that vs. marauder projectiles you're done. That's obvious. You have to tweak. This is also the same guy who complained in excess about Tempest being the death of ele, how weak it would be and unviable it would be. Meanwhile I'm telling the eles I know not to worry, Tempest will be a mandatory support class for any serious team, which it was.

> >

> > Tempest kept DH out of the meta for the longest time because of its projectile hate. Without projectile counters, you'll get rangers, dead eyes, and holosmiths, heck even the occasional daring rifle warrior, ripping any ele that wants to hold its own, to pieces, before moving on to the next target. A build mistake does not dismiss the values of celestial stats.

>

> Offensive Amulets like Marauder, Deadshot, Wanderer, Seeker, Demolisher, these only are packing 560 of a single defensive stat.. Paladin and Sage's have two 560 point investments in defensive stats.. you think I can't call Sage's Amulet "fairly tanky" as I'm quoted? Paladin/Sages/Menders/Celestial are all fairly tanky with their 1,120, 1380 or Mender's bigger investment in defensive stats.

>

> Also, "it could pull off menders. Toughness with strong healing is huge", I dunno what you mean here, Mender's Amulet doesn't have toughness..

>

> Anyways, my point was that Weaver isn't doing any meaningful support and especially not teamfighting vs. highly focused enemies. Weavers are kiting and scared for their life about 80% of the time if they're not able to get even fights on side nodes.

 

The first of two points is that an amulet with some defensive stats does not a fair tank make. It needs to suit the class using it. Tanky-by-design classes such as guardian and warrior can be tough with a single lesser defensive stat amulet. Elementalists are more active, rely heavily on healing power for sustain if they are not going full damage and relying on that pressure as a means of defense, and have the lowest armour. You're right, Sage's does not have toughness, hence the use of a full stop denoting the end of one statement and the beginning of another.

 

The second point is that swapping Sage's for Celestial on that build in particular would achieve nothing, because that build is ineffective. I'll restate: elementalist needs projectile hate to survive against high damage classes using heavy hitting projectiles. Not adjusting the build in that "showcase" match was a mistake. The result would have been a tad better with celestial because when on the run the added toughness would have helped, but overall the issue was the build itself not having been adjusted to suit what was being faced. A build mistake [concerning traits/weapons/skills/upgrades and not counting amulet] does not dismiss the value of celestial stats.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

> @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > @TheQuickFox.3826 said:

> > Yes, I use it on my Ele. Instead of being two-shot in 2 sec, I'm now three-shot in 2.5 sec. So, we're improving here.

> > But no Gw1-like survivability + high dmg ranged AoE spamming tho. (In Gw1, I only feared hammer warriors who kept me knocked down while bashing my insides and outsides to pulp or mesmers who completely shut me down. The rest I basically owned with Searing Flames, Mystic Regen, Aura of Restoration and a lot of health.)

>

> Never encountered a good ranger then? Dshotting SF was incredibly satisfying, I have to say.

>

> Anyways, I might try cele amulet, but I doubt that it'll be particularly worthwhile for me to use. Boon stacking was pretty important to it even when its stats were better, and with that nerfed as well as cele's stats, I think that my current amulet choices are here to stay.

 

You're right. I've been shut down by interrupt rangers quite a lot in Fort Aspenwood. But I still had major survivability as Ele in GW1 in comparison to this game.

[R E F L H E X.8413]

Tried it on a few things on everything but burn ranger it seemed to underperform very noticeably. Pistol thieves stack 25 might really quickly even then its noticeably underperforming. I plan on testing it again soon.

 

it also seems at some point they lowered the base damage of unload and gave us might or something.